This is not about balancing DK to be in line with the other classes, it's about balancing them to be in line with the content of the game.

People have been soloing VR content with DK, and have been doing it with ease. Sorcs can do it too, but at least you need to be competent with the class to be able to do it. As for Temps and NBs... Well if you are really good and have a good build I suppose you can do it, but it's gonna be hard.

The intent of the game, however, is to not solo VR content. Especially the stuff in Craglorn. But since some folk are even soloing that content, then obviously things are not working the way the devs intended, and some classes are simply too powerful.

So the devs have two choices - either nerf the OP classes or buff the weak ones and then buff all the VR mobs, so that even with their more powerful than planned powers, DK players would still need to find help and could not faceroll through everything solo.

Nerfing op powers is lot simpler than re-balancing everything and the end result is still the same, your DK will not be able to just blow though everything by spamming standard.

DK players should be content with having the privilege of having been able to play for a while as a god that walks among men. Temp and NB players will prolly never get a chance to experience such power.

kirnmalidus wrote: »

monkeymystic wrote: »

Frenzypanda wrote: »

To be fair, I do agree with monkey that the nerf is overboard. If you nerf the banner to 25% it seemed fair. But ZOS shaving 15% off is over doing it. Magma armor is ok since tanks pop it for repositioning or letting healers have some breathing space. If the other classes feels that their classes are underpowered, they should call for buff instead of nerfing other classes.

Trials like Aetherian Archives are very dps intensive. This change might cause random groups to have a harder time killing the mage. Not whining, just my 2 cents. Deal is done anyway.

Finally someone who understands my concern related to Trials and these nerfs.

I was starting to believe nobody on these forums actually have finished a 12 man trial or done it with a proper raid.

Another point is how it will be possible to break the current best time with this huge nerf.

Considering a lot of us play nightblades and templars, you're right, a lot of people here probably haven't finished a trial yet because we aren't invited.

And the leaderboards reset weekly, right? So beating the top times won't be an issue very long.

We usually went with 1-2 NBs, 3 templars (me as healer), 4 sorc, and 3-4 DKs with our trials BEFORE this patch.
This worked very well everytime we cleared the trials fast, so I would hardly say templars and NBs dont have use.

Templars are a MUST in Trials, without you cant get the same healing, dispels or backlash combo.

The problem here is that the standard nerf was badly needed for the DPS abuse but for another build of DK (stam/heavy/1H+S say) it wasn't that bad. I'm not sure why magma was nerfed but.. whatever.

So how do you make the other DK builds (the ones that most people will play - not the extreme minmaxers) still viable while nerfing the ones that are breaking the trials and PVP?

The flaws run deeper than the DK class. They run into the resource, armour and weapon lines. 5L/2H stave. It doesn't matter what class you go that's the DPS choice for each. There ought to be stamina-based high DPS builds (what the hell is medium armour for?). What's the reward for choosing melee other than getting hit more?

You can play the game fine with stam based builds and it seems balanced for those, therefore, the other types are OP and need to be nerfed. Buffing everyone else (and increasing content difficulty) doesn't make as much sense as nerfing them down. But the whole system is so messed up that fixing it is a nightmare. As many people have suggested - get everything WAI first then see where we go from there. It's not just classes - it's armour types, weapons, races and synergies between them all that are imbalanced and you'd expect that with the choices available. It should be an ongoing process to get it right - not a kneejerk classskill-nerf every patch.

Where can you read about the DK changes ?

All i see in the patch review is about Nightblades and Templars...
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/105348/patch-v-1-1-3-preview/p1

I say hooray to this balance. Its a good change.

moXrox wrote: »

frwinters_ESO wrote: »

I say hooray to this balance. Its a good change.

Well, where can you read about these changes. I dont see anything about DK in the 1.1.3 patch review.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/105696/patch-notes-v1-1-3#latest

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

kirnmalidus wrote: »

aleister wrote: »

Welcome to being a templar

No, they are still better than Templars by a long shot. Sorry.

Before 1.1.3:

• 1 Dragonknight needed to beat a boss meant for 12 players.
• 12 Templars needed to beat a boss meant for 1 player.

After 1.1.3:

• 2 Dragonknight needed to beat a boss meant for 12 players.
• 12 Templars needed to beat a boss meant for 2 players.

Not balanced by a long shot, but getting closer! :-)

Considering I've managed to solo several of the craglorn bosses on my vr 12 templar, I think this is a bit extreme way of putting it.

The DKs had to make proper builds for it, and so does everyone else like the VR 6 NB soloing crag bosses, or Sorceror soloing crag bosses with Crit Surge etc.

Start making a proper build and you will go a long way if you want to solo

The single most important thing inESO is balance between the classes, bots, bugs, exploits all are secondary.

If DKs and Sorcs are going to continue being so much more powerful than NB/Templar for much longer, every NB/Templar either rerolls or quits the game due to frustration having wasted hundreds of hours into a class that will never be as useful as the DK/Sorcs.

We are lucky though that they will work on everything at the same time, and it probably wouldnt be effective if every employee worked with only 1 issue.

I dont agree Stamina abilities should be just as powerful as magicka abilities, simply because the magicka abilities are class specific, the class abilities needs a certain edge.

The best would be if a synergy between sta and mag abilities made the most viable builds. But sadly only 5 abilities pr weapon limits the choices and mixes to much I think.

Phantorang wrote: »

I dont agree Stamina abilities should be just as powerful as magicka abilities, simply because the magicka abilities are class specific, the class abilities needs a certain edge.

The best would be if a synergy between sta and mag abilities made the most viable builds. But sadly only 5 abilities pr weapon limits the choices and mixes to much I think.

But what if some decent class abilities were stamina based instead of magicka?

[Mind Blown]

kirnmalidus wrote: »

Phantorang wrote: »

I dont agree Stamina abilities should be just as powerful as magicka abilities, simply because the magicka abilities are class specific, the class abilities needs a certain edge.

The best would be if a synergy between sta and mag abilities made the most viable builds. But sadly only 5 abilities pr weapon limits the choices and mixes to much I think.

But what if some decent class abilities were stamina based instead of magicka?

[Mind Blown]

Ah, so its the sta bar, not the sta abilities that is important..

I guess thats mind blowing.

Natjur wrote: »

Its hard to balance the classes both solo and in groups.

Templars are still good healers in groups, but last picked for dps runs and never as dps in trail runs.

Problem with Templar healers is that they dont have any easy way to replenish magicka, so in the long run for long fights, Sorc with restostaff is often preferred. Lots of players made their character to be a healer, but didnt make a templar healer, this is one reason.

Also, as the game is now, who needs a Templar who can heal, when a DK/Sorc can heal and do 3x dps.

frwinters_ESO wrote: »

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

If you are a DK tank, we have been nerfed to uselessness for a second week in a row. You thouhgt it was bad getting a tank before? ZOS just single handedly destroyed tanking

I hear NB tanks rock.

Only when going invisible and exploiting NPC´s. (soloing group content)
Otherwise for real tanking with a player group, NB are not bad.

Us Templars and Nightblades play the tinniest violin for the thread starters DK complaints about losing power.

Your hands down the most powerful class so either they nerf back in line or buff everything to ridiculousness.

Since Sorcs make better healers (for long fights as Templars have no mana regen skills unlike Sorcs)
DK are now saying tanking is harder for them.

Would anyone take a templar tank in a trial over a DK? (12 man)

In any 4 man instance run, everyone wants to be the dps (cause its mindless easy) No one want to play the tank but anyone can fill the healer spot if needed.
I guess its time to reload my templar tank build cause being the tank as least I will get some 4 man instances done.