Update 49 is now available for testing on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts
DKs get 6th nerfhammer. RIP Non-staff/non-light armor DKs. Dks lack uniqueness that other class has
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Ragekniv✭✭✭Did I miss the collective cry of the masses? Where was your solidarity when Zenimax embraced the precedent of ninja nerfing the Templar in response to the plague of bots? The player base should have been alarmed and demanded an immediate roll back.
Templars were already the weakest DPS class. Templars are the only class that had their resource mechanic completely stripped away out of Beta. Adding a GCD and increasing magicka cost as a remedy is no remedy, its infuriating!
Your ineffectual cries of delayed dismay in what you could have been part of the solution to resolving should be sobering to endure.
Try and embrace what broken NBs and Templars have had to endure!
Sorcs and DKs, take solace in knowing that you were able to face roll through VR and participate in VR end game content while others suffered the indignity of class imbalance.
OP Sorcs and DKs, your time has come!
Are you a polithician?
Or maybe you are too proud of your textwall that you are copypasting it in every thread quoting different people?
Or....
You are a ZOS CS bot used to send automatic replies to tickets turned into a forum user by daedric magic...
Don't be angry when the truth hurts!
OP Sorcs and DKs didn't stand up in solidarity with broken NBs and Templars when Zenimax ninja nerfed as a precedent. A reminder of the consequences of ignoring half the player base and the suffering they endured is relevant.
Just embrace the warmth of your hatred of impending nerfs!
Welcome to the party, your turn in the barrel has come!
Edited by Ragekniv on June 2, 2014 7:32PM6 -
ckf12b14_ESO✭✭✭You mean DK's can't abuse broken ults/ult generation and hit 1.7k single target sustained dps on every trial boss anymore? Oh no! What a shame!
Had it coming for a long time, pal.6 -
monkeymystic✭✭✭✭✭Frenzypanda wrote: »To be fair, I do agree with monkey that the nerf is overboard. If you nerf the banner to 25% it seemed fair. But ZOS shaving 15% off is over doing it. Magma armor is ok since tanks pop it for repositioning or letting healers have some breathing space. If the other classes feels that their classes are underpowered, they should call for buff instead of nerfing other classes.
Trials like Aetherian Archives are very dps intensive. This change might cause random groups to have a harder time killing the mage. Not whining, just my 2 cents. Deal is done anyway.
Finally someone who understands my concern related to Trials and these nerfs.
I was starting to believe nobody on these forums actually have finished a 12 man trial or done it with a proper raid.
Another point is how it will be possible to break the current best time with this huge nerf.4 -
Natjur✭✭✭✭✭
✭If a DK can still get top dps in a trials run after the 'nerf' then its a balance, not a nerf.
Templars can't even get anywhere NEAR that dps level6 -
GuildKid✭And all the while sorcs still get to spam bolt escape through legions of enemies in AvA.5 -
Jaxom✭✭✭✭monkeymystic wrote: »The real issue here is what road zenimax is going with constant nerfing of 1 class, and nerfing other abilities like "Inhale" on the way when those never were strong to begin with.
They have begun to strip the class into pieces lately, and if it continues they will end up making the class mediocre in all roles while they buff the other classes in the opposite direction.
Balance is good, but its important to not continue breaking a class completely piece by piece until there are no roles left to fill for that class.
I actually couldn't agree more. They need to focus on fixing the broken passives and active skills that aren't working (all classes). Once all the skills are actually doing what they say they do, take a snapshot at the current meta. At that point, make adjustments as necessary to keep the classes balanced.5 -
monkeymystic✭✭✭✭✭And all the while sorcs still get to spam bolt escape through legions of enemies in AvA.
Yes in beta me and my guildies was 100% certain that escape bolt would be the first nerfed ability. I'm suprised this havent been tuned yet however.Edited by monkeymystic on June 2, 2014 7:30PM1 -
Mithlob✭✭Really? In all honesty I thought Magma Armor/Banner were going to be the first to go. Strong percentage based mitigation abilities (especially ones with strong multiple effects) are usually always the the first to go either by magnitude or duration.Edited by Mithlob on June 2, 2014 7:36PM2 -
Heraclea✭✭✭It's bad enough trying to make heavy armor and melee weapons work. If the game becomes significantly more difficult as a result of this, I am gone,Hircine loves me, this I know,
Your intestines told me so.
Quæ tam fera immanisque natura? - Cicero7 -
Sensesfail13✭✭✭✭I totally agree with this, I am currently a rank 8 nearly rank 9 dragonknight and I have trouble with two or more mobs in veteran rank 5 content... if it werent for standard of might I wouldnt be able to kill anything at all. As it is shield bash was nerfed which gave me survivability in a bind... which I no longer have, and now magma armor and standard of might are nerfed, so I cant even do the minimal amount of dps I could just last night to stay alive. This is all with a tank setup, all epic/legendary armor and weaponry and I have tried multiple set-ups trying to optimize my playability. Nothing works I still die on a consistent basis and this is at nearly 4 veteran ranks behind what my current rank is.
I really want to play this game but the structure is just horrible, running a game based on "build/play a character how you like" but you are streamlined into certain class types and archetypal character structures to be effective. If the developers keep changing everything the way they have been this game is going to flop. And that is just sad because it has so much promise.Wisherr, Dragonknight, Haderus, NA Server.
Wisher of Naught, Nightblade, Haderus, NA Server.
Guild officer: Abandoned Legion9 -
monkeymystic✭✭✭✭✭
That is kind of the whole point of why I'm concerned with the way they keep nerfing 1 class into pieces.
I actually made a strong build on my templar, and I am a team player so I want the raid to be good, not just my own class.
Templar DPS just got "better" after the nerf to dks, but it's the wrong way to "balance" templars imo. They should rather focus on templar to begin with. Now they will not buff templars because they nerfed the DK, see?
Those saying templars "suck" does simply not know how to play their templar... and you cant blame the class for L2P issues. Templars also have 1 role they will always be best out of all 4, healer. They are currently the superior healer in ESO and in Trials.
And lastly, I would MUCH rather have a templar buff than a dk nerf, wouldnt you?
That is EXACTLY why I'm trying to say that overnerfing something is only the easy and short sighted way out and only give you a new balancing issue.
And you can wave goodbye to any Templar buffs when they nerf dks down to their level like they are doing now. As a templar this is not ideal for meEdited by monkeymystic on June 2, 2014 7:46PM4 -
Selstad✭✭✭✭Having the "existence" of trials and completion of trials hinging on 1 class being "Awesome" is a poor game design to start with anyway. One class should not be the sole reason trials are going fast. If that is the case then good that they are balancing that out a bit.
What's a shame is that they are really fumbling in the dark. There are some issues with the DK class being too good, but there are more concerns that other classes are poorly designed.
One of these poor designs is that all classes uses spells that depends on magica. You find stamina use on weapons and fighter's guild abilities, other than that it's all about magica. Where's the diversity? You have 3 main attributes in the game yet only 1 can be considered even viable to use while the other is a "meh" one.
The major problem in this game is that the "play as you want" boils down to "exploit as you want". DKs crying for nerfs to their class is at its best cute. They've grown too complacence and think themselves the centre of the game, that which all things should evolve around. This post is a clear evidence on that part, as the OP clearly think that trials should depend on a DK DPS for speed. Well lets hope that they'll manage to balance things outs. Though this being Zenimax, I have serious doubts about it.6 -
monkeymystic✭✭✭✭✭Really? In all honesty I thought Magma Armor/Banner were going to be the first to go. Strong percentage based mitigation abilities (especially ones with strong multiple effects) are usually always the the first to go either by magnitude or duration.
So you're saying they should nerf the NB AoE ultimate that gives 60% damage mitigation then? Which they just buffed more?Edited by monkeymystic on June 2, 2014 7:43PM4 -
Phantorang✭✭✭✭An ultimate gain NERF isnt exclusive for DKs, this touches all the classes equally, so to make the impression that DKs are more dependent on ultimate for DPS than any other class is pretty lame.
That has to be just the beginning of a series of DK/(Sorcs too) Nerfs we are gonna see in the couple of next patches. With DPS at least 100% more than for example the Templar, equals another 40-50% reduced DPS for the DK, or the Templar gets 100% more.
Im all for boosting instead of nerfing, but thats not realistic, and who wants to play a game where you can solo 12 man content? Boring, but I guess some DKs and Sorcs thinks thats how its supposed to be.Fimbulwinter Recruiting true Vikings | Campaigns score | EU PC6 -
Nox_Aeterna✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Yes and no at the same time.
DK were and probably still are , strong like hell.
And this is what many in this thread dont seem to understand.
The reason it will get nerf after nerf and no buffs , is because it is already the top dog , what zen is doing is making it reach the top point it wants all classes to get.
This means nerf to the DKs and buffs to the templars.
Just buffing the templars till they were on the DKs lvl , would mean all classes in this game can do absurd stuff solo.
And do notice , im a solo player , still i believe closed group dungeons... should be for groups. While all classes should be able to solo the normal veteran content."Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
-Hanlon's razor5 -
Ryfe✭✭@monkeymystic So you are actually saying that all classes should be buffed instead of nerfed and balanced.
so that everyone can faceroll 1-button-skill-smashing-liftoff trials or something like that crap.
The devs are trying to balance the classes to fit their "style" and keep the content (especially Vet content) hard. There is no need to faceroll Vet content.
Thats why there are nerfs not buffs.2 -
kirnmalidus✭✭✭✭Welcome to being a templar
No, they are still better than Templars by a long shot. Sorry.Life of a Nightblade (Screenshot Tumblr)
“Attention Zenimax: Stamina builds don't hold up to magicka builds, and this is causing most of your class imbalance. It makes melee weapons and bows weaker than staves and class abilities. It makes medium and heavy armor less desirable than light armor. Fix this imbalance, and you'll address most of your balance issues.”
- @ruze84b14_ESO7 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Phantorang wrote: »Im all for boosting instead of nerfing, but thats not realistic, and who wants to play a game where you can solo 12 man content? Boring, but I guess some DKs and Sorcs thinks thats how its supposed to be.
Show me a video of a Sorc doing any 12 man content solo, please.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points4 -
ExiledKhallisi✭✭✭✭✭Any person who thinks DK's didnt need this nerf..... suffers from extreme denial.>>>>>>>>(DC)Guild Master of Biestas 250+ Active Members<<<<<<<<||||||Vr14 Sorc: Darkened Soul vr14 Templar: Tiffaney||||||“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War6 -
ErykGrimm✭✭✭Having the "existence" of trials and completion of trials hinging on 1 class being "Awesome" is a poor game design to start with anyway. One class should not be the sole reason trials are going fast. If that is the case then good that they are balancing that out a bit.
What's a shame is that they are really fumbling in the dark. There are some issues with the DK class being too good, but there are more concerns that other classes are poorly designed.
One of these poor designs is that all classes uses spells that depends on magica. You find stamina use on weapons and fighter's guild abilities, other than that it's all about magica. Where's the diversity? You have 3 main attributes in the game yet only 1 can be considered even viable to use while the other is a "meh" one.
The major problem in this game is that the "play as you want" boils down to "exploit as you want". DKs crying for nerfs to their class is at its best cute. They've grown too complacence and think themselves the centre of the game, that which all things should evolve around. This post is a clear evidence on that part, as the OP clearly think that trials should depend on a DK DPS for speed. Well lets hope that they'll manage to balance things outs. Though this being Zenimax, I have serious doubts about it.
You missed the OPs entire point. As it stands, one class being "OP" is how trials are being done effectively. The point monkey is making is that instead of nerfing the class that is making trials possible, the classes that struggle in trials need to be buffed/fixed. People will enjoy the game a lot more if their class is fixed first instead of just making sure everyone is equally miserable.5 -
monkeymystic✭✭✭✭✭
And do notice , im a solo player , still i believe closed group dungeons... should be for groups. While all classes should be able to solo the normal veteran content.
All classes can solo dungeons. And all classes had to be creative to do it. The top dog after this patch to solo stuff will be Sorcerors with Crit Surge and nonstop self heals however.Edited by monkeymystic on June 2, 2014 7:49PM6 -
kirnmalidus✭✭✭✭monkeymystic wrote: »Frenzypanda wrote: »To be fair, I do agree with monkey that the nerf is overboard. If you nerf the banner to 25% it seemed fair. But ZOS shaving 15% off is over doing it. Magma armor is ok since tanks pop it for repositioning or letting healers have some breathing space. If the other classes feels that their classes are underpowered, they should call for buff instead of nerfing other classes.
Trials like Aetherian Archives are very dps intensive. This change might cause random groups to have a harder time killing the mage. Not whining, just my 2 cents. Deal is done anyway.
Finally someone who understands my concern related to Trials and these nerfs.
I was starting to believe nobody on these forums actually have finished a 12 man trial or done it with a proper raid.
Another point is how it will be possible to break the current best time with this huge nerf.
Considering a lot of us play nightblades and templars, you're right, a lot of people here probably haven't finished a trial yet because we aren't invited.
And the leaderboards reset weekly, right? So beating the top times won't be an issue very long.Edited by kirnmalidus on June 2, 2014 7:51PMLife of a Nightblade (Screenshot Tumblr)
“Attention Zenimax: Stamina builds don't hold up to magicka builds, and this is causing most of your class imbalance. It makes melee weapons and bows weaker than staves and class abilities. It makes medium and heavy armor less desirable than light armor. Fix this imbalance, and you'll address most of your balance issues.”
- @ruze84b14_ESO3 -
ThreeEyedCrow✭✭✭Phantorang wrote: »Im all for boosting instead of nerfing, but thats not realistic, and who wants to play a game where you can solo 12 man content? Boring, but I guess some DKs and Sorcs thinks thats how its supposed to be.
I have yet to see any video of a DK solo'ing 12 man content.
The videos people posted were of a DK solo'ing mobs in a 4 man dungeon and attorneyatlawl soloing the Hircine's Haunt boss on PTS.
That is not really solo'ing 12 man content.
Also there is a video of a Nightblade solo'ing HIrcine's mobs as well so its not just DK that can do that.
Problem is some myths get propagated and grown out of proportion to what is actually happening.Edited by ThreeEyedCrow on June 2, 2014 7:53PMV12 Corporal
Victoria Concordia Crescit4 -
Mithlob✭✭monkeymystic wrote: »Really? In all honesty I thought Magma Armor/Banner were going to be the first to go. Strong percentage based mitigation abilities (especially ones with strong multiple effects) are usually always the the first to go either by magnitude or duration.
So you're saying they should nerf the NB AoE ultimate that gives 60% damage mitigation then? Which they just buffed more?
Yes, Yes I do, when they fixed NB bugs/abilities in combination it's going to be too much and I fully expect tweaks.Edited by Mithlob on June 2, 2014 7:53PM2 -
monkeymystic✭✭✭✭✭kirnmalidus wrote: »
I honestly don't see how people struggle so much with their templar. As a VR 12 templar myself, some things of the class is even a bit over the top IMO. Get your solid build together. The classes have each of their strong points. My vr 4 dk just got many of its strong points stripped away again.
Templars are the best healers by far, and they are decent tanks too. They lacked a bit in competitive DPS before this patch, but now they will do much better because of the other class nerfs.
I know many templars dont morph Solar Barrage for example, and lose a lot of dps from not having this. But I don't understand how I can feel the templar class is doing fine while some say its "useless". I dont buy it, unless you spam 2h and bow abilities.Edited by monkeymystic on June 2, 2014 7:55PM1 -
ErykGrimm✭✭✭Nox_Aeterna wrote: »
Yes and no at the same time.
DK were and probably still are , strong like hell.
And this is what many in this thread dont seem to understand.
The reason it will get nerf after nerf and no buffs , is because it is already the top dog , what zen is doing is making it reach the top point it wants all classes to get.
This means nerf to the DKs and buffs to the templars.
Just buffing the templars till they were on the DKs lvl , would mean all classes in this game can do absurd stuff solo.
And do notice , im a solo player , still i believe closed group dungeons... should be for groups. While all classes should be able to solo the normal veteran content.
Not everyone aspires to be mediocre. If all classes are working as intended, game balance can be accurately achieved. It is foolish to think that trials and dungeons cannot be rebalanced after classes are fixed.2 -
kirnmalidus✭✭✭✭Phantorang wrote: »An ultimate gain NERF isnt exclusive for DKs, this touches all the classes equally, so to make the impression that DKs are more dependent on ultimate for DPS than any other class is pretty lame.
That has to be just the beginning of a series of DK/(Sorcs too) Nerfs we are gonna see in the couple of next patches. With DPS at least 100% more than for example the Templar, equals another 40-50% reduced DPS for the DK, or the Templar gets 100% more.
Im all for boosting instead of nerfing, but thats not realistic, and who wants to play a game where you can solo 12 man content? Boring, but I guess some DKs and Sorcs thinks thats how its supposed to be.
Thank you for pointing this out. My Nightblade is built around high crit chance, and using those crits to build up ultimate. I have a feeling when I get home tonight I'm going to see a serious reduction in my ultimate gen from this "fix" and it is going to make things that were already difficult effectively impossible (like soloing more than two open world trash mobs).Life of a Nightblade (Screenshot Tumblr)
“Attention Zenimax: Stamina builds don't hold up to magicka builds, and this is causing most of your class imbalance. It makes melee weapons and bows weaker than staves and class abilities. It makes medium and heavy armor less desirable than light armor. Fix this imbalance, and you'll address most of your balance issues.”
- @ruze84b14_ESO1 -
Dagoth_Rac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭kirnmalidus wrote: »
Before 1.1.3:- 1 Dragonknight needed to beat a boss meant for 12 players.
- 12 Templars needed to beat a boss meant for 1 player.
After 1.1.3:- 2 Dragonknight needed to beat a boss meant for 12 players.
- 12 Templars needed to beat a boss meant for 2 players.
Not balanced by a long shot, but getting closer! :-)
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