Shield Bash re-balance

joelmansonrwb17_ESO · May 2014

I have just been doing some testing in regards to the modified shield bash in 1.1.2 (and it's skill perk increasing damage by 100%) and it provides slightly less DPS than spamming light attacks. Considering that it depletes my entire stamina bar for one fight, I would expect a higher DPS than my light attacks.

Now I understand that it needed to be rebalanced... but for something that uses stamina, I would expect the DPS to be higher than my light attacks. People were saying that it is unfair because you're blocking at the same time; yet each block also depletes stamina... leaving you with no stamina if you're not efficient with your engagement.

There is little reason for me to use shield bash on 60% of the mobs I fight, since they don't have interruptible skills. I would like to see another rebalance to somewhere between pre-patch and post-patch damage... at the moment, even with the perk, it's really a skill that has very limited application during fights.

Anyone other DK's feeling the same?

sagitter · May 2014

U must realize that bash is both offensive and defensive skill, plus it don't use a slot . With med armor bonuses and Nightblade leeching skill i could bash near forever with a superb damage, it was op and needed to be fixed. If u want do stamina based damage now u must use some others skills in weapon skills, and i m really happy to see ppl use it because it was useless before.

Cogo · May 2014

I feel the bash is just fine now. I need to really get in the interupt on my target, which stuns it and do some damage with my skills in add bash damage.

When I solo, this is great, cause I can back off, change to bow and finish the enemy off.

Takes a bit more skill....but hey, this is a skill game. Both skill on your char and your personal skill.

joelmansonrwb17_ESO · May 2014

The increased damage against interrupts is nice... but when you're dealing with 2+ mobs that don't have interruptible skills, there really is little point in using the bash skill.

I find I'm just spamming light attacks and other stamina based skills to do damage. Maybe if they make 1H and shield more 'tanky' then I wouldn't mind shield bash the way it is. Like some more mitigation regardless if you're blocking or otherwise... And not the just the extra bit of armor from the shield that's about equivalent to wearing another pair of gauntlets.

Either way, I rarely use bash anymore. Which was my point in the first place, it's a skill that has one use, in one situation... I feel as though when you spend two skill points into a skill, you should really be getting more of a benefit than you are now. Hell, even make the perk remove the stamina requirement altogether, since it's already doing less damage than light attacks; it's not as if spamming it is killing anything in a hurry anymore.

Sharee · May 2014

Bash is meant to be used as an interrupt, not as a regular attack. If you feel the two skill points are not worth the benefit then don't buy them (but then be prepared to die to a mob attack because you didn't have enough stamina left to bash it)

Cogo · May 2014

Sharee wrote: »

Bash is meant to be used as an interrupt, not as a regular attack. If you feel the two skill points are not worth the benefit then don't buy them (but then be prepared to die to a mob attack because you didn't have enough stamina left to bash it)

Exactly

Crisscross · May 2014

Sharee wrote: »

Bash is meant to be used as an interrupt, not as a regular attack.

Bash in general, yes, but I think 1h+shield bash should be better than other weapons' bash just from a conceptual standpoint. Getting bashed with a shield can take a man off his feet, where getting bashed by a sword pommel would probably just bruise.

I agree the skill was OP before, but now it's practically useless. It should still be able to do good complimentary DPS that makes it worth its stamina cost. Otherwise, rework the skill because as it is now it's just a waste. Not every mob likes to channel attacks, so the passive is only useful a very small percentage of the time, whereas other passives pretty much have 100% uptime.

Lupinemw · May 2014

Yeah when your doing more damage with a shield than you are with a sword then something is wrong.

Plus as you progress standing still to bash someone is fine as long as his 5 friends are happy to not do anything.

smercgames_ESO · May 2014

Did you test how much dmg it does when you actually interrupt something? You cannot compare light swing (does dmg) to bash (does dmg AND interrupts) as if they are equal because bash has an added effect hence the added cost.

Bashing before was stupid good and not balanced at all. I understand your idea that bashing someone with a shield could really screw someones day up but for balance purposes in this game it just doesn't work out. That is what shield charge is for.

Tankqull · May 2014

just make deadly bash effect power bash snd shield is fine again.

Jeremy_gelber_ESO · May 2014

tankqullb16_ESO wrote: »

just make deadly bash effect power bash snd shield is fine again.

it should also affect shield charge.

Cogo · May 2014

Its good as it is, and I use it all the time.

It just requires skill and timing to stun. Unless you know it, no there "weapon" in the game protects you so much like block.

joelmansonrwb17_ESO · June 2014

I'm still under-awed by the shield bash. People saying light attack with a sword should be better than a shield: this point could be argued multiple ways, but doesn't really make a difference. A shield can do more damage than a sword given the circumstances and vice versa... but luckily it's a game and it doesn't have to reflect real life.

The drop in DPS isn't a major issue, it's the versatility of the skill now that there is a minimal damage and only interrupts certain mob attacks. Most other skills can be applied to every mob. Shield bash costs stamina, does minimal damage, and will only interrupt/stun channelled attacks of certain mobs... And you need to invest two skill points into it just to get close to light attack damage. Now that I'm on this point, can't you interrupt a channelled skill with a 2H bash or other weapon bashes? So is it an 'added' effect or just the standard effect of any bash?

If with a shield you could "interrupt" more attacks (e.g. power melee attacks, etc) then it would become more useful/versatile skill, as it would have a role when attacking mobs without a channelled skill and could be used proactively instead of holding 'block' and waiting for an opponent to attack (which has no relation to the deadly bash perk at all, and could be another thing that the perk could affect to make the skill points worth it).

In fact, this would be preferable as there is no rise in DPS, but you are able to feel like more of a 'tank' as you can use the shield to absorb damage and interrupt to engage in an attack (albeit a low DPS one).

Anyway, my opinion stands; a rework of the perk is needed. It would have been nice to be convinced otherwise, but I had already run through the counterpoints raised in this thread before the post, but was hoping there was something I had overlooked. Or maybe just change the title of the perk to "not so deadly bash"...

Obscure · June 2014

joelmansonrwb17_ESO wrote: »

I find I'm just spamming light attacks and other stamina based skills to do damage.

Working as intended.

demonlkojipub19_ESO · June 2014

Really, because I find that my light attacks do more damage than shield bashes with the trait.

Working as it needs to.

Still_Mind · June 2014

Lupinemw wrote: »

Yeah when your doing more damage with a shield than you are with a sword then something is wrong.

Plus as you progress standing still to bash someone is fine as long as his 5 friends are happy to not do anything.

Buff sword damage and be done with it :P

joelmansonrwb17_ESO · June 2014

Buffing sword damage will bring DPS of the class up, but still make the perk not worth the two skill points; the perk needs something more than a minor dmg buff and stamina reduction for me to reinvest in it next time I respect.

I love the 'working as intended' replies. Didn't know you guys were part of the development team...

I might as well have started this thread with 'Shield Bash Sux' if I wanted to get that awesome level of discussion in this thread.

That being said, thanks to those who posted constructive/productive replies on the issue!

smercgames_ESO · June 2014

Because we don't have enough skill points! Need more skill points! I can only learn 4 weapon types, 2 armor types and all 3 class skill lines!

But anyways, you never know when that dmg increase or stamina decrease might be the difference between a wipe and a clear. If you are a tank, you grab it. If you aren't a tank then don't grab it. It's meant as in interrupt not an attack. Not trying to be a troll but from the change they obviously did not want it to be used in such an offensive manner.

Kalman · June 2014

I have a VR1 in lvl 45 gear with Deadly Bash II

Pre 1.1.2 to VR1 Sea Viper Marine that spying on ship in Khenarthi's Roost

Deadly Bash II Bash cost 98 sta

Deadly Bash II = 229 dmg
Deadly Bash II Interrupt Cast = 229 dmg
Deadly Bash II Bash Sneak Attack = 971 dmg

Deadly Bash II w/ring +16 bash dmg = 254 dmg
Deadly Bash II Interrupt Cast w/ring +16 bash dmg = 254 dmg
Deadly Bash II Bash Sneak Attack w/ring +16 bash dmg = 996 dmg

Post 1.1.2 to VR1 Sea Viper Marine that spying on ship in Khenarthi's Roost

No Deadly Bash Bash cost 196 sta

No Deadly Bash = 45 dmg
No Deadly Bash Interrupt Cast = 112 dmg
No Deadly Bash Sneak Attack = 192 dmg

No Deadly Bash w/ring +16 bash dmg = 54 dmg
No Deadly Bash w/ring +16 bash dmg Interrupt Cast = 123 dmg
No Deadly Bash w/ring +16 bash dmg Sneak Attack = 206 dmg

Deadly Bash II Bash cost 118 sta

Deadly Bash II = 78 dmg
Deadly Bash II Interrupt Cast = 195 dmg
Deadly Bash II Sneak Attack = 333 dmg

Deadly Bash II w/ring +16 bash dmg = 89 dmg
Deadly Bash II w/ring +16 bash dmg Interrupt Cast = 223 dmg
Deadly Bash II w/ring +16 bash dmg Sneak Attack = 360 dmg