Why are you rushing to endgame?

Elirienne · June 2014

tanthil wrote: »

Also just to put things in perspective you guys are trying to tell other people how they should enjoy playing games, that sounds pretty stupid doesn't it?

It is a very very small minority of the player base of any MMO that actually plays the game for the questing/leveling portion of it first and foremost.

Actually i think you are right about other mmos but here, there is really a substancial number of solo players, due to the eso franchise. Almost everyone I know who plays this game, plays it as a SPG with the occasional multiplayer element for content where grouping is forced (dungeons). Which is not better or worse than any other playstyle, but it's there, and more than in other mmos.

Wolfshead · June 2014

tanthil wrote: »

Elirienne wrote: »

I genuinely wonder. In every other MMO that I know, I understand. WoW fun really starts at max level. But this game? Why in the world would anyone want to rush to the end game (and by this I mean vr12)? There is nothing there! No major, epic, all-expansion-length-awaited superboss, no real new challenge compared to leveling, no real gearing options over and above what is being presented through leveling, no house, no wife/husband, no kingdom awaits. This game IS the leveling, the questing, the stories, why are you rushing to the end?

and if WoW had no endgame would you also tell all the wow players to slow down and "not get to max level" like you do these players? or would tell blizzard their game is in a broken state?

pretty sure i know your answer and thats a double standard and i have no idea why you would take zenimaxs side.

Also on the same scenario i made up of WoW having no endgame.. well hey, they have tonnes and tonnes of questing zones that you could just force everyone to complete every last bit to get to max level (nobody likes being able to choose a path while leveling,we actually want ALL the content forced down our throats) and then put 10 more fake levels on top of it all and make everyone level through the opposings factions quests too just so they dont get to the point were they see theres no end game right?

P.S this is an MMO IT NEEDS ENDGAME

Its a subscription based MMO it cant be all questing, now they promised new content every 4-6weeks, so lets say honestly we get it every 7weeks(this is probably being generous as the first update which was obviously well into design pre launch took 7weeks and obviously this game does not have as many subs(revenue) now as they expected when stating 4-6weeks)... assume that's a new zone like craglorn, is that 2months ($30) worth of playability?... even though the next content update is rumored to be 1-2 VR dungeons (no questing zone!!!!!)

Well to be honest when WoW come out in 2004 the game did not have much of end game at all most lvl 60 back then was sit around in Org and SW most of the time and if i reminder right it took blizzard 6 month before the add any real end game content but back them people was do other thing like PvP and carft or just chatting but now as soon a new mmo don't have end game content people scream it is broken it more like people have be spoil by fact a game should have end game content.

But most people expect new mmo should have everything from start which most people by now should know that will never happen no mmo have everything from start how fun would that then people would come to forum whine about the are not add anything new to game instead.

makreth · June 2014

It's pointless to rush to the endgame. People say PVP is the endgame here but they are so wrong. LAG is the endgame. It's inevitable and embarassing.

Jeremy · June 2014

Elirienne wrote: »

I genuinely wonder. In every other MMO that I know, I understand. WoW fun really starts at max level. But this game? Why in the world would anyone want to rush to the end game (and by this I mean vr12)? There is nothing there! No major, epic, all-expansion-length-awaited superboss, no real new challenge compared to leveling, no real gearing options over and above what is being presented through leveling, no house, no wife/husband, no kingdom awaits. This game IS the leveling, the questing, the stories, why are you rushing to the end?

It's weird I agree.

They rush to the end then complain about being bored or not enough content. And what is even better, anything that takes time and prevents them from being able to rush to the end they call a grind and complain about it. So it's basically like watching a movie - fast forwarding to the end - then getting annoyed the movie is over. So I genuinely wonder at it as well.

I think the truth is a lot of people who play MMORPGs simply don't like RPG games. So they just try to get it over with as fast possible so they don't have to play it anymore. The real mystery is why do they play games they don't like.

morashtakb16_ESO · June 2014

Because this is the "normal" thing to do - People that have been playing MMOs for several years have been conditioned to do exactly this because "end level" content is where one gets the best gear from end level small group content which allow for participating in large group content.

A level cap pause that lasts for several months also allows for the "casual" player base to catch up and experience some, if not all, end level content.

A level cap pause for the "hard core" player base allows for refining their play in large group content and posting the best times, first in world boss deaths, acquiring raid achievements, etc.

Some more content will be introduced at end level, small and large group content primarily, which broadens the game. Players at end level will complete the content and wait for a large expansion that raises content.

So what we've seen in the past was content, broadening, then raising. We're used to that, even expect it in new MMOs. This is called "normalization".

This is why many at end level have rushed thru the solo content. End level small group and large group content is what these players were looking forward to.

ZOS seems to have changed the paradigm without telling us directly, instead they have introduced "level creep" by adding small, tho' time intensive, amounts of levels. If this is the new normal of ESO some clear communication from the developers would be welcome.

Some players like the old normal and do not appreciate the level creep and therefore will find a new game with the old normal.

Jeremy · June 2014

morashtakb16_ESO wrote: »

Because this is the "normal" thing to do - People that have been playing MMOs for several years have been conditioned to do exactly this because "end level" content is where one gets the best gear from end level small group content which allow for participating in large group content.

A level cap pause that lasts for several months also allows for the "casual" player base to catch up and experience some, if not all, end level content.

A level cap pause for the "hard core" player base allows for refining their play in large group content and posting the best times, first in world boss deaths, acquiring raid achievements, etc.

Some more content will be introduced at end level, small and large group content primarily, which broadens the game. Players at end level will complete the content and wait for a large expansion that raises content.

So what we've seen in the past was content, broadening, then raising. We're used to that, even expect it in new MMOs. This is called "normalization".

This is why many at end level have rushed thru the solo content. End level small group and large group content is what these players were looking forward to.

ZOS seems to have changed the paradigm without telling us directly, instead they have introduced "level creep" by adding small, tho' time intensive, amounts of levels. If this is the new normal of ESO some clear communication from the developers would be welcome.

Some players like the old normal and do not appreciate the level creep and therefore will find a new game with the old normal.

I would disagree slightly with your analysis and say you have it backwards. Because it really wasn't the games that conditioned the players to do this. It was the players who conditioned the games to do this.

That is why I say the root reason for this rushed approach to endgame in modern MMORPG design is primarily due to an influx of players who dislike RPG games yet for some odd reason I can't explain play MMORPGs. So it's not what I would describe as a normalization. It's an attempted transformation of a genre by players who don't like the genre to begin with.

Even World of Warcraft - when it first came out - had what you would describe as level creep. RPG games have always been about a journey through a fantasy world. Solo RPG games still are. Even the modern ones. This rush to the end and spam the same instances over and over until new ones come out is an anomaly to RPG design. It's not normal.

Lynnessa · June 2014

Well said, @Jeremy ! You have the right of it, sir!

Zershar_Vemod · June 2014

Only VR 3 a this point because I have a life and responsibilities and I actually stop once in awhile to just look around in the game and take screenshots, etc.

I don't feel sorry at all for all the people that became Vr 12 in a few hours after the patch was done and are now complaining about "no content" - in fact, I laugh at them.

Elgarr · June 2014

Elirienne wrote: »

@Elgarr...

Because you aren't curious, You are trying to argue the case as to why people shouldn't in this game, or is what you have posted something totally different to what myself and everyone else can read.

Well if you know better what i am trying to do than i do, then who am i to argue with you? *rolls eyes, walks away*.

Do you understand English?

Read what you put and then tell me you aren't making an argument for why people shouldn't

A simple non bias way, would have been made in a post that just asked the question.

Why do you rush to end game?

That doesn't say anything more than a simple question, what you did, was then add loads of negative points to every part of the question.

Why in the world would anyone want to rush to the end game (and by this I mean vr12)? There is nothing there! No major, epic, all-expansion-length-awaited superboss, no real new challenge compared to leveling, no real gearing options over and above what is being presented through leveling, no house, no wife/husband, no kingdom awaits.

Now please, tell me what part of that quote is neutral in its statement?

That's not a question, that's someone trying to argue as to why people shouldn't.

If you really don't understand what you posted and how it is read, then please, pretty please.

Don't post!

You have already been lambasted by others, I don't need to say anymore, your hole was already dug when you clicked post comment!

kitsinni · June 2014

With how long the game has been out you don't have to be rushing to have hit max level.

Cogo · June 2014

Great post OP.

I wonder the same thing myself. I understand player who wants max level, raid, do the highlvl things as fast as possible, I do.

ESO has that part too, just not very evolved yet, but 2 new dungeons for high lvls are coming.

There is to many who simply didnt read what ESO was when they bought it.
I feel sorry for the, because they have missed so much.

MrDenimChicken · June 2014

Reevster wrote: »

Mablung wrote: »

It is more of a reflection of western culture. We want what we want and we want it now. It is like opening a gift on Christmas morning. There is no neat way to tear away wrapping paper, you rip and shred until the contents are revealed as fast as possible. Then it is move onto the next thing hoping it is better than the previous.

Exactly , plus some players have no life and play 24 hours straight sessions or longer pumped up on red bull and or other stuff.....then once they have burned through to the top lvl missing most of the content they then cry about nothing left too do....Sad really ...,

LOL. how freaking pompous. really?

Some people play mmo's for END GAME, or stuff like PVP, not just leveling.

This game isn't as epic as single player Skyrim in my honest opinion, and there are times where I start breezing through quests because they get repetitive or the boss at the end ends up being really anti-climactic...other times story line is great and worth spending time for. So I'm not going to blame someone for being quicker than I am to get to 50 when they came to this game for something like PVP, especially when cyrodil was hyped to be so amazing.

But this psychoanalysis of "western culture" as the reason people level quickly is ridiculous. People have been doing this from the beginning of MMO's, and people from everywhere around the world do this......Get over yourself.

Bromburak · June 2014

tanthil wrote: »

and if WoW had no endgame would you also tell all the wow players to slow down and "not get to max level" like you do these players? or would tell blizzard their game is in a broken state?

WoW had no "endgame" it actually stopped being a game when starting to force players into daily routines.

This kind of game play is like watching stupid daily TV shows. And now it comes this concept is very succesful to make money!

Respect to blizzards success to feed the mass, but being a creative game designer looks different!

Thulsola · June 2014

Elirienne wrote: »

This game IS the leveling, the questing, the stories, why are you rushing to the end?

I wonder the same thing. I actually get a little annoyed when I am out farming leather and other mats and then I "accidentally" level. In order to keep up with my level I keep having to leave a zone before I have finished all the quests - moping them up for achievements when I'm not getting experience or drops.

I know why it works the way it does, but sometimes I wish I could just hangout in a lower level area, exploring and farming and still get drops level appropriate for that area. But without drops, I can't level my crafting skill or get enough of the crafting mats I need.

Especially with ESO, I think people should just slow down and enjoy the journey.

Thulsola · June 2014

tanthil wrote: »

Also just to put things in perspective you guys are trying to tell other people how they should enjoy playing games, that sounds pretty stupid doesn't it?

Isn't that exactly what you're doing with this post? I didn't read the OP's post as a commandment to other players, but a genuine curiosity as to why people are driving so fast to the destination when this game is designed for the journey.

It seems to me that there are a whole lot of MMO players out there who came to ESO thinking they were going to get to put another MMO notch on their belt before the next big thing came out, and are all disappointed that this is much more an ES game than a typical MMO. I'm not an MMO player, I'm and ES player, and I love this game.

Yes, Zenimax should fix the MMO aspects of the game that are broken, but I sure as hell hope that they don't try to change the fundamental character of the game as they do so.

hk11 · June 2014

The expectation that a MMO be complete when launching is not unrealistic.

I've been playing WS for the last couple of days and it released as a full game. Somehow they have managed to give you all the features of other MMOs, plus adding a few new ones like 40vs40 "Warplots" that are player created. It also adds some classic features like pvp servers and the ability to level via pvp.

The questing itself is not on the level of ESO by any means. It's the standard "kill x" for the most part. But all of the classes I have tried so far are pretty damn fun, both melee and ranged. I didn't feel any real inbalance during pvp, but granted it was low level stuff so far.

The game appears to be centered around group content such as dungeons, raids, and pvp. The quest content is what it should be: a means to an end. At the maximum level there is a ton of stuff you need to accomplish in order to successully raid. My hope is that they will release new raid content about as often as the average raiding guild has the content "on farm".

Now if I could just get in to play. The queues to login to pvp servers are pretty brutal

bg22 · June 2014

PvP

UrQuan · June 2014

Elgarr wrote: »

Elirienne wrote: »

@Elgarr...

Because you aren't curious, You are trying to argue the case as to why people shouldn't in this game, or is what you have posted something totally different to what myself and everyone else can read.

Well if you know better what i am trying to do than i do, then who am i to argue with you? *rolls eyes, walks away*.

Do you understand English?

Read what you put and then tell me you aren't making an argument for why people shouldn't

I think you might be the one who doesn't understand English. OP asked why people rush to endgame, and then laid out the reasons he has trouble understanding why people do it. That's an explanation for why he's asking. If you can't understand how that's different from a condemnation of people who rush to endgame, then that's your problem.

renaud.moyneb16_ESO · June 2014

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

Only VR 3 a this point because I have a life and responsibilities

Are you for real ?

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

I don't feel sorry at all for all the people that became Vr 12 in a few hours after the patch was done and are now complaining about "no content" - in fact, I laugh at them.

Jebus.... dood... it's not day 2 anymore... most V10+ didn't exploit theire way there....

and Yes there are a lot of complains because of content... because there is no "high-end" or just "hard" content yet... Craglorn is a big joke difficulty-wise...

I really feel sorry for poeples so short-sighted...

wtf do you even care if you are so happy with the game ?

dam...

Innocente · June 2014

My static duo partner and I are not rushing through. Been playing since launch and are Level 36 and just getting started in AD Malabal Tor. That being said, we are now discussing what we will do when we finish the main AD line and are Level 50.

* Do VR content for little to no real rewards?
* Do a new set of characters in one of the other factions?
* Move on to a new MMO?

Neither of us is interested in the 'final' ESO end-game pursuits of a totally broken and unbalanced GW2 style PvP experience. Or the pointless and frustrating exercise of timed Trials, which only remind me of GW2 Fractal grinding.

So, we have a decision point coming up.
Don't know what it will be.

stevenpotter321b14_ESO · June 2014

The real question is why do you consider people at VR 10-12 as people that rushed content? I get it, many of you are still lvl 30, but the game has been out more than 60 days now. During that time, there have been holidays that have created extended weekends, colleges have ended spring semester, many schools have started summer, etc. This all adds up to people having a good bit of time to spend in game if that is how they wish to do so. It is no longer a matter of rush to end game, that was the first few day players. Now it is easily feasible to listen to all dialogue and have reached endgame.

That said, there are perks involved in being at 'endgame'. One of the most obvious being the better gear/stats/etc for pvp, since everyone is thrown together not being capped is a severe disadvantage. Another benefit of 'endgame' is being able to customize your character better and run dungeons/raids. Sadly, those two aren't very time consuming in this game currently.

Either way, stop assuming everyone has rushed to endgame. Either accept that people have more time to play, or you are incredibly inefficient at leveling by now.

Enteum · June 2014

All in all, I don't think it matters really. It is after all, just semantics. I have just hit VR2 after playing since early access. I think I have used my time well. I am happy with my character, and happy with the experience overall.

However if people want to blitz their way through why do we argue with that? If you're still level 15 and started in early access, what is wrong with that? Nothing..

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. People play how they wish..and to be honest, if they are enjoying what they are doing, it's a good thing.

I like to take my time. My time! At my pace. If someone is leveling faster than you then maybe their pace of enjoyment is quicker than yours. It serves no place for debate in my eyes.

renaud.moyneb16_ESO · June 2014

Thanks for the entertainement, I can use some since I don't play anymore :disagree:

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

First - learn grammar "dood."
Second - I never mentioned anyone exploiting
Third - Yes, some people have real lives, shocking right?

I knew you were a moron, that's pretty nice of you to demonstrate it so quickly. (well it was kinda obvious in your 1st previous post ... but still, thx)

1st/ maybe I'm not an english speaking person - There are some other languages out there - shocking !

2nd/ If they didn't exploit theire way to max level... then wtf is your grudge already ? Oh ... your ego can't stand the truth : you are no gamer. If you were those ideas would have never see the light of day.

3rd/ I guess you missed the point... Do you believe you are the only one around with life/job/marriage/kids/etc ???

Wake up buddy, maybe you can still make friends and *** if you really try...

Zershar_Vemod · June 2014

renaud.moyneb16_ESO wrote: »

Thanks for the entertainement, I can use some since I don't play anymore :disagree:

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

First - learn grammar "dood."
Second - I never mentioned anyone exploiting
Third - Yes, some people have real lives, shocking right?

I knew you were a moron, that's pretty nice of you to demonstrate it so quickly. (well it was kinda obvious in your 1st previous post ... but still, thx)

1st/ maybe I'm not an english speaking person - There are some other languages out there - shocking !

2nd/ If they didn't exploit theire way to max level... then wtf is your grudge already ? Oh ... your ego can't stand the truth : you are no gamer. If you were those ideas would have never see the light of day.

3rd/ I guess you missed the point... Do you believe you are the only one around with life/job/marriage/kids/etc ???

Wake up buddy, maybe you can still make friends and *** if you really try...

Someone *** in you cornflakes I take it?

You seem to also be seeing things that don't exist. But please, you really should take up the reading comprehension and getting an education.

Hmm also, you don't play anymore you say? Interesting that you bother wasting your short existence here haha. You'll be a big-boy troll one day.

renaud.moyneb16_ESO · June 2014

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

BLABLA

That's all you got ?
No argument and rookie level flaming ?

Gisgo · June 2014

Elirenne i dont care how everyone else is playing the game, as long as they stay inside the rules, its their money and their time.

Now please explain us, why do you care?
To me it sounds like you needed some attention and found a very easy argument to get a few likes.

Personally i rush to VR12 because Cyrodiil is my place, and i want to get done with PVE as fast as i can; and the only thing i complain about is the lag.

You, on the other hand, are complaining about people playing the game at their own pace (which might be different from yours).

I will let you wonder who is the whiner here.

ZOS_JasonI · June 2014

Hey there, everyone. As a reminder, please keep the discussion on-topic and avoid personal attacks, as insulting other players is against our Code of Conduct.

Jim_McMasterub17_ESO · June 2014

I agree. for me the journey IS the destination.

& if it gives the company more time to fix the upper tiers of the game..while they fix the lowers as well of course.

It's a win-win for me & my six alts as I play with skill trees & concepts of combat that would be unacceptable or in the least rote to the elite core crowd.

Zershar_Vemod · June 2014

renaud.moyneb16_ESO wrote: »

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

BLABLA

That's all you got ?
No argument and rookie level flaming ?

So, who shot the dog?

Funny how my simple comment on laughing at those who rushed and are complaining now really made you upset. You're going to need some thicker skin when you get older.

But hey, adjust the tinfoil and continue with the rants haha. I'm still waiting to see how any of my posts were flaming as you go on a crusade to make up a story and then *** about nothing.

You obviously have no interest in TESO, so just leave and enjoy wildstar

There are two general groups:

The ones who are taking their time and still have plenty of content, and those who rushed to VR10/VR12, and are now with "nothing" and spending their time complaining.

Snowstrider · June 2014

I dont like the endgame,Thats why i am creating alts to play through the best parts of the game.