Switching weapons breaks stealth

hammer_fella · May 2014

Why is this? I can see no compelling reason for this to happen.

AlexDougherty · May 2014

Switching weapons deactivates all current abilities, since they were tied to the hotbar of the previous set (even if they are identical).

It also dismisses summoned creatures for sorcerors, which is a more pressing issue for me.

Just have to learn to remember that switch weapons wipes all active abilities.

zaria · May 2014

If the abilities is at the same position as in clanfear on 5 it will stay.
My guess is that disabling toggle able abilities like mage light will break stealth.
Might also be an bug

hammer_fella · May 2014

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Switching weapons deactivates all current abilities, since they were tied to the hotbar of the previous set (even if they are identical).

It also dismisses summoned creatures for sorcerors, which is a more pressing issue for me.

Just have to learn to remember that switch weapons wipes all active abilities.

Stealth isn't an ability. I'm not talking about Shadow Cloak or it's morphs. I'm talking about sneaking, which is available to every character regardless of what is on your skill bar.

Yakidafi · May 2014

It also breaks stealth as in crouching with ctrl button, which is what I thought op meant.

I think it might be because I have set items, or it is like this all the time.

hammer_fella · May 2014

I too wondered how it might relate to sets, as I don't recall always having this problem.

zgrssd · May 2014

It does not break stealth.
It does however count as "agressive action" wich will bump your detectability level for a short time (but not as severe as using any skill).

My best guess? Changing weapons is sort of an agressive action. You wouldn't change weapon unless you wanted to do something with the other weapons skill. Of wich 99% (all but the NB combat stealth) will make you visible.
I can see how weapon swap could be considered an agressive action or something that should disrupt stealth.

Edit: Forget what I said. Currently it does not.

zgrssd · May 2014

I double checked. Switchign weapon does not make you unhidden. At least not in PvE on the EU server after the today maintenance.

I can switch weapon in LOS of a mob, I will not get detected.
I can swap weaposn 2 meters behind a mob while sneaking, I will not be detected. And now that I think about it, I always could do that.

Edit: Actually I can be so close to the mob as sneaking templar without any stealh bonuses that my staff clips into the mob, and he won't notice me sawppig my weapon.

chaosme · May 2014

I have read some posts on these forums that if switching weapons cause you to gain/lose a set bonus, then you will be detected for a short moment. Could that have been the reason?

hammer_fella · May 2014

zgrssd wrote: »

I double checked. Switchign weapon does not make you unhidden. At least not in PvE on the EU server after the today maintenance.

I can switch weapon in LOS of a mob, I will not get detected.
I can swap weaposn 2 meters behind a mob while sneaking, I will not be detected. And now that I think about it, I always could do that.

Edit: Actually I can be so close to the mob as sneaking templar without any stealh bonuses that my staff clips into the mob, and he won't notice me sawppig my weapon.

Then clearly we are having two very different experiences, and I suspect my current equipment is somehow related.

I am playing a Bosmer vampire NB with full medium armor and every other conceivable stealth bonus, yet I cannot swap weapons within about 10 meters of a mob without arousing suspicion and probably immediate agro.

hammer_fella · May 2014

chaosme wrote: »

I have read some posts on these forums that if switching weapons cause you to gain/lose a set bonus, then you will be detected for a short moment. Could that have been the reason?

I have nearly identical bows on both my bars, each crafted with the same set: Night Mother's Gaze.

zgrssd · May 2014

hammer_fella wrote: »

Then clearly we are having two very different experiences, and I suspect my current equipment is somehow related.

I am playing a Bosmer vampire NB with full medium armor and every other conceivable stealth bonus, yet I cannot swap weapons within about 10 meters of a mob without arousing suspicion and probably immediate agro.

Maybe it is the vampire part? I only read about it in here, but it did say that long time not feeding makes you less able to stealth vs. living foes.

I also checked, disabling toggle ability via weapon swap (like bound armor, magelight, Siphoning Strikes) does not seem to disrupt stealth. Only reactivating those does.

zgrssd · May 2014

hammer_fella wrote: »

I have nearly identical bows on both my bars, each crafted with the same set: Night Mother's Gaze.

There is a small chance they made a mistake in the switching system.
Basically he check if you are no longer eligible for the set bonus happens between the weapons being active. If so, you would indeed be considered "without the set"/"with less set items" for a short time (one frame, before the new weapon is taken into consideration).
It's a quite possible mistake and hard to fix without reworking the whole system. of weapon bars/set bonus detection.

But actually I was having the asumption that offhand weapons fully count for set set bonus, even when not the active ones. The UI implies it, but not verfied it.

zgrssd · May 2014

Did some more tests, defintely related to sets taht weapons are part off.

Weapon swap does break stealth, but only when I switch to a weapon with set part (even it's the only pice of that set).
It also breaks if I equip a weapon that is part of a set - wheter in my main of offhand slot.

zgrssd · June 2014

zgrssd wrote: »

Did some more tests, defintely related to sets taht weapons are part off.

Weapon swap does break stealth, but only when I switch to a weapon with set part (even it's the only pice of that set).
It also breaks if I equip a weapon that is part of a set - wheter in my main of offhand slot.

So, some more tests. Apparently for this to break you stealth you have to:
Either use weapon swap or equip a weapon that is part of a set.
It might also be limited to characters who have Racial Stealth Bonus (skillpoints invested; Kajiit, maybe Bosmer) or it only happens with certain sets. I can consistently reproduce it on my Kajiit, but nothing happens on my Breton with Whitestrakes Retirbution (full set or single equipped item.
Either the set plays a role, the racial does or it was stealth fixed in the Friday(EU)/Saturday(NA) downtime (wich might just mean they fixed it by accident). My programmers instict tells me it is the racial, but I do not have a lot of solid data to support this theory.
I don't have time or resources for more thorugh testing right now.

Reproduceabiliy is the core of bug reporting. Once somebody gives the a proper list of things that have to happen, they should be able to find what is wrong.
If they did not already solved it by accident/when reworking the faulty code part for other reasons.

Birfreben_Kinghelred · June 2014

I think this has to do with elemental enchants on your weapons, if you have flame/frost/lightning enchants you will be revealed while the enchant animates.(think of it as the light from the weapon revealing you) Other enchants like rage/stamina steal/health steal don't reveal. Not sure about disease/poison as I haven't had either of those for a while. Pretty sure this is intended. Maybe the set pieces your equipping have elemental enchants?

Edit: Nvm, just tried to reproduce this using elemental weapon enchants. Failed. Im entirely sure it functioned like this at some point. I've been revealed swapping weapons before, and as a 2h medium armour user my weapon has never been integrated into a set.

hammer_fella · June 2014

zgrssd wrote: »

zgrssd wrote: »

Did some more tests, defintely related to sets taht weapons are part off.

Weapon swap does break stealth, but only when I switch to a weapon with set part (even it's the only pice of that set).
It also breaks if I equip a weapon that is part of a set - wheter in my main of offhand slot.

So, some more tests. Apparently for this to break you stealth you have to:
Either use weapon swap or equip a weapon that is part of a set.
It might also be limited to characters who have Racial Stealth Bonus (skillpoints invested; Kajiit, maybe Bosmer) or it only happens with certain sets. I can consistently reproduce it on my Kajiit, but nothing happens on my Breton with Whitestrakes Retirbution (full set or single equipped item.
Either the set plays a role, the racial does or it was stealth fixed in the Friday(EU)/Saturday(NA) downtime (wich might just mean they fixed it by accident). My programmers instict tells me it is the racial, but I do not have a lot of solid data to support this theory.
I don't have time or resources for more thorugh testing right now.

Reproduceabiliy is the core of bug reporting. Once somebody gives the a proper list of things that have to happen, they should be able to find what is wrong.
If they did not already solved it by accident/when reworking the faulty code part for other reasons.

Whether it is occurring completely unintentionally or intentionally but inconsistently, it is stupid regardless.

There isn't any good reason for this to happen. It lends nothing to the game and effectively just creates one more scenario to punish the vulnerable NB trying to switch skills to suit the situation, only to expose himself in the process.

EDIT: I appreciate your extensive testing of this btw.

Worstluck · June 2014

It's definitely the sets. I have some night mother daggers and a helm, but my second weapon is not. Every time I would switch to daggers, I lost stealth. Died several times to this. Had to switch to some different daggers until i get a new second weapon

edit: I will add that if your second weapon is of the same set, this will not occur. Think of like kind of casting a spell on yourself when you switch to the weapons that have the set bonus. It should be changed; that shouldn't be happening.

phaneub17_ESO · June 2014

Its an activated action like picking a locked chest or gathering a node. It just reduces your bonus stealth to zero, or default non-modified stealth because your character's attention is diverted somewhere else; it doesn't mean they automatically see you. It doesn't seem to have any effect on characters that have no additional stealth bonuses like from Medium Armor Improved Sneak passive or Bosmer's racial Stealthy as your bonus stealth level is already at default zero.

tangorn · June 2014

zgrssd wrote: »

zgrssd wrote: »

Did some more tests, defintely related to sets taht weapons are part off.

Weapon swap does break stealth, but only when I switch to a weapon with set part (even it's the only pice of that set).
It also breaks if I equip a weapon that is part of a set - wheter in my main of offhand slot.

So, some more tests. Apparently for this to break you stealth you have to:
Either use weapon swap or equip a weapon that is part of a set.
It might also be limited to characters who have Racial Stealth Bonus (skillpoints invested; Kajiit, maybe Bosmer) or it only happens with certain sets. I can consistently reproduce it on my Kajiit, but nothing happens on my Breton with Whitestrakes Retirbution (full set or single equipped item.
Either the set plays a role, the racial does or it was stealth fixed in the Friday(EU)/Saturday(NA) downtime (wich might just mean they fixed it by accident). My programmers instict tells me it is the racial, but I do not have a lot of solid data to support this theory.
I don't have time or resources for more thorugh testing right now.

Reproduceabiliy is the core of bug reporting. Once somebody gives the a proper list of things that have to happen, they should be able to find what is wrong.
If they did not already solved it by accident/when reworking the faulty code part for other reasons.

I do not think it is racial. I play Breton NB, no stealth passives yet, only have executioner, dual wield expert, dexterity, and spell resistance at the moment (lvl 24), and started to have this problem after I made my daggers as a part of a set. And it was there for a few days before the last downtime. And I just tested it does break stealth and pulls aggro.

charles_crowe · June 2014

tangorn wrote: »

zgrssd wrote: »

zgrssd wrote: »

Did some more tests, defintely related to sets taht weapons are part off.

Weapon swap does break stealth, but only when I switch to a weapon with set part (even it's the only pice of that set).
It also breaks if I equip a weapon that is part of a set - wheter in my main of offhand slot.

So, some more tests. Apparently for this to break you stealth you have to:
Either use weapon swap or equip a weapon that is part of a set.
It might also be limited to characters who have Racial Stealth Bonus (skillpoints invested; Kajiit, maybe Bosmer) or it only happens with certain sets. I can consistently reproduce it on my Kajiit, but nothing happens on my Breton with Whitestrakes Retirbution (full set or single equipped item.
Either the set plays a role, the racial does or it was stealth fixed in the Friday(EU)/Saturday(NA) downtime (wich might just mean they fixed it by accident). My programmers instict tells me it is the racial, but I do not have a lot of solid data to support this theory.
I don't have time or resources for more thorugh testing right now.

Reproduceabiliy is the core of bug reporting. Once somebody gives the a proper list of things that have to happen, they should be able to find what is wrong.
If they did not already solved it by accident/when reworking the faulty code part for other reasons.

I do not think it is racial. I play Breton NB, no stealth passives yet, only have executioner, dual wield expert, dexterity, and spell resistance at the moment (lvl 24), and started to have this problem after I made my daggers as a part of a set. And it was there for a few days before the last downtime. And I just tested it does break stealth and pulls aggro.

this i can confirm. breton NB, happened whenever i had a set bonus weapon i switched to. (currently, it breaks stealth when i switch to my hunding's rage swords, but does not when i switch to my seducer bow.)

highly annoying in cyrodiil, where i often have to switch weapons to suit the situation.

sagitter · June 2014

i can confirm it's the sets, and in pvp it's frustrating.