xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Actually, Stamina main problem isn't just dodge/block/sprint using Stamina..

The main problem with Stamina is the fact that Heavy/Medium Armor passives are complete *** compared to Light armor Passives.

Then factor in things like Magicka has far more ways to give back Magicka then Stamina has to give Back Stamina.

There is a reason Light Armor/Staves users can spam their abilities, Because they don't run out of their resource often because they have multiple ways to get it back.

a Stamina user not only has a higher cost, but doesn't have way to constantly get back his Resource like Magicka does..

I believe this here to be one of the biggest issues with balance between Magicka and Stamina. Sorcerer/NB and some what DK have options to "get back Magicka. This circumvents the Resource Management system they have in place.

If there ARENT any ways to "get back" Magicka/Stamina then the system works more like.

Magicka is High Damage/Burst but VERY low sustainment in damage meaning you OOM fast and stay mana starved with low DPS after initial burst.

Stamina would work very opposite more Standard Damage/Burst but being that ALL Light/Heavy Attacks scale with Stamina including Staves you have a higher Sustained DPS after you OOS.

The in the long run the better player manages to "meld" the too together to obtain a balance relying on BOTH Magicka and Stamina to make a complete build while going all Magicka/Stamina is still perfectly viable just a different play style and drawbacks.

This is the balance I BELIEVE they working towards but only time will tell after the NightBlade fix.

I have 0/49/0. That puts my health near the softcap. Gear & drink puts magicka + magicka regen just over. I'd like to go back to stam-based melee build, but I just can't get it to work as well as magicka/ranged and vet levels are slow enough as is.

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Actually, Stamina main problem isn't just dodge/block/sprint using Stamina..

The main problem with Stamina is the fact that Heavy/Medium Armor passives are complete *** compared to Light armor Passives.

Then factor in things like Magicka has far more ways to give back Magicka then Stamina has to give Back Stamina.

There is a reason Light Armor/Staves users can spam their abilities, Because they don't run out of their resource often because they have multiple ways to get it back.

a Stamina user not only has a higher cost, but doesn't have way to constantly get back his Resource like Magicka does..

I believe this here to be one of the biggest issues with balance between Magicka and Stamina. Sorcerer/NB and some what DK have options to "get back Magicka. This circumvents the Resource Management system they have in place.

If there ARENT any ways to "get back" Magicka/Stamina then the system works more like.

Magicka is High Damage/Burst but VERY low sustainment in damage meaning you OOM fast and stay mana starved with low DPS after initial burst.

Stamina would work very opposite more Standard Damage/Burst but being that ALL Light/Heavy Attacks scale with Stamina including Staves you have a higher Sustained DPS after you OOS.

Thats why we have this weird "one and only" templar class that could be a stamina support class for groups.

But here it comes, my theory is that there are certain skill lines that didnt make it into the game during beta and release but they were actually part in the overall balancing resource concept.

I bet that dark brother hood and thieves guild lines could fill all the gaps we were wondering since release.

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Actually, Stamina main problem isn't just dodge/block/sprint using Stamina..

The main problem with Stamina is the fact that Heavy/Medium Armor passives are complete *** compared to Light armor Passives.

Then factor in things like Magicka has far more ways to give back Magicka then Stamina has to give Back Stamina.

There is a reason Light Armor/Staves users can spam their abilities, Because they don't run out of their resource often because they have multiple ways to get it back.

a Stamina user not only has a higher cost, but doesn't have way to constantly get back his Resource like Magicka does..

I believe this here to be one of the biggest issues with balance between Magicka and Stamina. Sorcerer/NB and some what DK have options to "get back Magicka. This circumvents the Resource Management system they have in place.

If there ARENT any ways to "get back" Magicka/Stamina then the system works more like.

Magicka is High Damage/Burst but VERY low sustainment in damage meaning you OOM fast and stay mana starved with low DPS after initial burst.

Stamina would work very opposite more Standard Damage/Burst but being that ALL Light/Heavy Attacks scale with Stamina including Staves you have a higher Sustained DPS after you OOS.

Thats why we have this weird templar class. *omg*

WHAT???

I think hes talking about the templars class identity? I mean when you look at the default char during char builder the templar is in heavy armor and 2HD weapon, but when you play it you can only be effective as a light/mana build. The templars heals are almost unusable in heavy/2HD (like a traditional pally), they are not even like a traditional cleric class in EQ because you need the passives of light to be effective as a healer.

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Actually, Stamina main problem isn't just dodge/block/sprint using Stamina..

The main problem with Stamina is the fact that Heavy/Medium Armor passives are complete *** compared to Light armor Passives.

Then factor in things like Magicka has far more ways to give back Magicka then Stamina has to give Back Stamina.

There is a reason Light Armor/Staves users can spam their abilities, Because they don't run out of their resource often because they have multiple ways to get it back.

a Stamina user not only has a higher cost, but doesn't have way to constantly get back his Resource like Magicka does..

I believe this here to be one of the biggest issues with balance between Magicka and Stamina. Sorcerer/NB and some what DK have options to "get back Magicka. This circumvents the Resource Management system they have in place.

If there ARENT any ways to "get back" Magicka/Stamina then the system works more like.

Magicka is High Damage/Burst but VERY low sustainment in damage meaning you OOM fast and stay mana starved with low DPS after initial burst.

Stamina would work very opposite more Standard Damage/Burst but being that ALL Light/Heavy Attacks scale with Stamina including Staves you have a higher Sustained DPS after you OOS.

Thats why we have this weird templar class. *omg*

WHAT???

I think hes talking about the templars class identity? I mean when you look at the default char during char builder the templar is in heavy armor and 2HD weapon, but when you play it you can only be effective as a light/mana build. The templars heals are almost unusable in heavy/2HD (like a traditional pally), they are not even like a traditional cleric class in EQ because you need the passives of light to be effective as a healer.

I play a Heavy Armor Templar with a 2HD Sword. Im perfectly viable having no issues leveling. As for my healing spells they work just fine, but I wont be able to be a main healer unless I'm using a Restro Staff.

But with my 2HD im a VERY strong support character if I want to be and borderline Main Healer, its just easer with Restro Staff as it should be since Restro Staff give back Magicka as it should plus it increases my healing as well.


People saw the Templar class and expected to be main healers without using a Restro Staff. That like looking at the DK and thinking GOOD now i don't have to use S&B to be a tank.

A Templar CAN Main Heal without a Restro Staff, but its going to be a well coordinated group not a run of the mil pug, and why bother when Restro Staff simply makes it easier and you CAN Weapon Swap to a DPS build that still have has a heal on the hotbar.

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Actually, Stamina main problem isn't just dodge/block/sprint using Stamina..

The main problem with Stamina is the fact that Heavy/Medium Armor passives are complete *** compared to Light armor Passives.

Then factor in things like Magicka has far more ways to give back Magicka then Stamina has to give Back Stamina.

There is a reason Light Armor/Staves users can spam their abilities, Because they don't run out of their resource often because they have multiple ways to get it back.

a Stamina user not only has a higher cost, but doesn't have way to constantly get back his Resource like Magicka does..

Non staff weapons need to automatically return stamina for each basic (light/heavy) attack while also doing more damage than they currently do. The activated abilities will still have their place for utility and because you can block during them.

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Actually, Stamina main problem isn't just dodge/block/sprint using Stamina..

The main problem with Stamina is the fact that Heavy/Medium Armor passives are complete *** compared to Light armor Passives.

Then factor in things like Magicka has far more ways to give back Magicka then Stamina has to give Back Stamina.

There is a reason Light Armor/Staves users can spam their abilities, Because they don't run out of their resource often because they have multiple ways to get it back.

a Stamina user not only has a higher cost, but doesn't have way to constantly get back his Resource like Magicka does..

I believe this here to be one of the biggest issues with balance between Magicka and Stamina. Sorcerer/NB and some what DK have options to "get back Magicka. This circumvents the Resource Management system they have in place.

If there ARENT any ways to "get back" Magicka/Stamina then the system works more like.

Magicka is High Damage/Burst but VERY low sustainment in damage meaning you OOM fast and stay mana starved with low DPS after initial burst.

Stamina would work very opposite more Standard Damage/Burst but being that ALL Light/Heavy Attacks scale with Stamina including Staves you have a higher Sustained DPS after you OOS.

Thats why we have this weird templar class. *omg*

WHAT???

I think hes talking about the templars class identity? I mean when you look at the default char during char builder the templar is in heavy armor and 2HD weapon, but when you play it you can only be effective as a light/mana build. The templars heals are almost unusable in heavy/2HD (like a traditional pally), they are not even like a traditional cleric class in EQ because you need the passives of light to be effective as a healer.

I play a Heavy Armor Templar with a 2HD Sword. Im perfectly viable having no issues leveling. As for my healing spells they work just fine, but I wont be able to be a main healer unless I'm using a Restro Staff.

But with my 2HD im a VERY strong support character if I want to be and borderline Main Healer, its just easer with Restro Staff as it should be since Restro Staff give back Magicka as it should plus it increases my healing as well.


People saw the Templar class and expected to be main healers without using a Restro Staff. That like looking at the DK and thinking GOOD now i don't have to use S&B to be a tank.

A Templar CAN Main Heal without a Restro Staff, but its going to be a well coordinated group not a run of the mil pug, and why bother when Restro Staff simply makes it easier and you CAN Weapon Swap to a DPS build that still have has a heal on the hotbar.

The problem isn't that nightblades and templars can't work. In fact, we can work really well once you learn how to play the class. That's not to be insulting, either. I was having such a hard time with my NB at 40ish, and almost quit him when I hit VR1. Then I began really grinding through the harder mobs, and upped my game and now have no issues.

No, the problem happens when one of us goes and plays a sorcerer or dragonknight alt. There is so much ease and power there, it'll make you sick at how hard you have to work when you play.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Nightblade's difficulty. And if you make me stronger, I'll start breaking the game because it'll become very easy.

If you nerf sorcerers and dragonknights more, though, you'll *** off even more players who will not be able to adapt to the more difficult (or normal, if you now consider they are equal to templars and nightblades) content.

A veteran rank sorcerer forced to fight a 2 minute bout with a three-mob group would probably quit.


Honestly, I don't even want to play sorcerers and dragonknights. I know the nerf is coming. And I don't want to start off in god-mode and be all screwed up afterwards.

Mi opinion in how to improve stamina builds without destroying Magicka users its this: Give stamina recovery a HUGEEE boost.

Right now If im correct Stats recoverys go in overcharge at :
Magicka and stamina : 80
Health: 50

So ..make Stamina overcharge at 160. Give medium armor a boost in his stamina recovery. This way, medium armor becomes the "light armor" for stamina users.
But what about heavy armor users? well ...heavy armor could use a buff in other things, like making Inmobable restricted to 5 pieces of heavy armor and reducing his cost in 50%. Changing the health regeneration passive for stamina, etc.

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Actually, Stamina main problem isn't just dodge/block/sprint using Stamina..

The main problem with Stamina is the fact that Heavy/Medium Armor passives are complete *** compared to Light armor Passives.

Then factor in things like Magicka has far more ways to give back Magicka then Stamina has to give Back Stamina.

There is a reason Light Armor/Staves users can spam their abilities, Because they don't run out of their resource often because they have multiple ways to get it back.

a Stamina user not only has a higher cost, but doesn't have way to constantly get back his Resource like Magicka does..

I believe this here to be one of the biggest issues with balance between Magicka and Stamina. Sorcerer/NB and some what DK have options to "get back Magicka. This circumvents the Resource Management system they have in place.

If there ARENT any ways to "get back" Magicka/Stamina then the system works more like.

Magicka is High Damage/Burst but VERY low sustainment in damage meaning you OOM fast and stay mana starved with low DPS after initial burst.

Stamina would work very opposite more Standard Damage/Burst but being that ALL Light/Heavy Attacks scale with Stamina including Staves you have a higher Sustained DPS after you OOS.

Thats why we have this weird templar class. *omg*

WHAT???

I think hes talking about the templars class identity? I mean when you look at the default char during char builder the templar is in heavy armor and 2HD weapon, but when you play it you can only be effective as a light/mana build. The templars heals are almost unusable in heavy/2HD (like a traditional pally), they are not even like a traditional cleric class in EQ because you need the passives of light to be effective as a healer.

I play a Heavy Armor Templar with a 2HD Sword. Im perfectly viable having no issues leveling. As for my healing spells they work just fine, but I wont be able to be a main healer unless I'm using a Restro Staff.

But with my 2HD im a VERY strong support character if I want to be and borderline Main Healer, its just easer with Restro Staff as it should be since Restro Staff give back Magicka as it should plus it increases my healing as well.


People saw the Templar class and expected to be main healers without using a Restro Staff. That like looking at the DK and thinking GOOD now i don't have to use S&B to be a tank.

A Templar CAN Main Heal without a Restro Staff, but its going to be a well coordinated group not a run of the mil pug, and why bother when Restro Staff simply makes it easier and you CAN Weapon Swap to a DPS build that still have has a heal on the hotbar.

The problem isn't that nightblades and templars can't work. In fact, we can work really well once you learn how to play the class. That's not to be insulting, either. I was having such a hard time with my NB at 40ish, and almost quit him when I hit VR1. Then I began really grinding through the harder mobs, and upped my game and now have no issues.

No, the problem happens when one of us goes and plays a sorcerer or dragonknight alt. There is so much ease and power there, it'll make you sick at how hard you have to work when you play.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Nightblade's difficulty. And if you make me stronger, I'll start breaking the game because it'll become very easy.

If you nerf sorcerers and dragonknights more, though, you'll *** off even more players who will not be able to adapt to the more difficult (or normal, if you now consider they are equal to templars and nightblades) content.

A veteran rank sorcerer forced to fight a 2 minute bout with a three-mob group would probably quit.


Honestly, I don't even want to play sorcerers and dragonknights. I know the nerf is coming. And I don't want to start off in god-mode and be all screwed up afterwards.

It is TRULY unfortunate that most them will probably rage and quit but at the same time I hope it a lot of those people that DONT want VR to be "easier" from the whole stop dumbing down the game thread LOL.

I've got guys in guild who were happy and fun before the bash nerf, and now are talking about new games.

Players naturally gravitate to what works. They aren't all focused on exploits and whatnot. But a simple 'fix' can all-out ruin someone's fun.

It's the hard point of balance. Take away, and people leave. Add too, and you break the game or make it too easy.

rusila22 wrote: »

I would say each time you level up in veteran mode you should gain stats in stamina/magicka/health why..... because all mobs get powerful and some boss (in solo quest)become really powerful but not you so it's a joke...a [snip] joke.

Thats ridiculous ...

Do the math, how much stats you want per Vet Level for having an efficient output?



[Moderator Edit: Edited quote from moderated post.]

I believe your point is valid, but depending on the person, the system isn't broken. I finished the quest line with a NB bow build with alot of health and a balance of Magika/Stamina. I was able to tank and alternate between stamina and magic abilities affectively enough to beat every level, every boss. Which makes me happy. Having balance is less important when you focus on PvE questing.

mar1ano1987nrb18_ESO wrote: »

Talmet wrote: »

They are adding ult gains to heavy armor, at least that's what the dev's said in a Q&A like a week or two ago.

The devs were asked something about why anyone would wear full heavy, as you can hit the armor softcap with just a few pieces. The answer was that heavy armor passives were getting redone in the near future, to let heavy armor wearers use ultimates more often.

Well its good to hear that they are planning on rebuild the heavy armor, altought I dont think that ultimate gain will be the best solution. Ultimate spamm its already happening even with light armor, if you can spam it even more fast with heavy armor, it would be crazy ...especialy in pvp.

I kinda agree. I realize that attaching magicka regen, stamina regen and now ultimate regen (doesn't heavy also boost heals?) was an easy solution. But I think the armor needs a bit more complexity than that.

Then again, if they somehow solve the disparity between stamina abilities (weapon line, mostly) and magicka abilities (class lines), we could see medium armor becoming useful without any changes whatsoever.

I believe the relationship between stamina points spent, to damage output, needs to be looked at and resolved in comparison to magicka/dps, before any armor changes are made.

meimei wrote: »

I'm not sure if this was mentioned or not.
Why not just give more stamina for every point used, just like health for an example.
1 point = 15-20 stamina
And also raise the stamina soft cap.
Wouldn't that solve the stamina problem?

Doubtful 1 wrong change and you can end up throwing the scale in an entirely different direction where we are all complaining Stamina is too OP since a LOT of stuff requires Stamina.

Has anyone worked up a NB design that hits the Stamina and Stamina Recovery hardcaps?

The quick fix would be to make stamina scale better for weapon skills, or just make weapon skills Majicka based.

As a Tank I mostly build for health and can go Tower Mundus for Stamina boost. As Dunmer I could throw a few points into Stam and Maj as it scales nicely with racial passive so 5 in each. Now I can infused on minor armor and bump up stamina that way as well as get a set of mage jewellery for one of each stat and enchant them as I see fit.

For dps it needs to be Maj only now unless you can go bow and do without class skills perhaps.

Lack of melee means lack of interrupts and this is less than min/max would require no matter what you say in smaller groups. Zergs dont need anything except dps and a couple of heals anyway.

game needs some balancing for sure. so much potential but lacking so much diversity.