Nightblade Update

Blinks · May 2014

damfatcow wrote: »

Blinks wrote: »

There's a difference between being good at PvE and being good at PvP dude, just because someones good at knowing what mobs, do what skills, when, doesnt make them UBER-AMAZE-***. I'll be the first to admit I struggle with some stuff as a NB in PvE Vet content, quite alot of it tbh. 3 mobs can be a handful and most likely I'll die if I mess up one skill rotation or a skill doesn't crit when I need it to. PvP on the other hand is a completely different kettle of fish. So to the guys out there that are crying about lowbie NB players Shhhh!! and stop having ago at players who have a specific way they prefer to play when currently their play style is gimped as it is currently with some in your face DPS skills etc.

I'm not really understanding what you are trying to say, that you are bad at pve but good in pvp? Not trying to offend you at all but just dont get your message dont take it personally. If you are having trouble with 3 mobs its because you lack AOE. As a v12 NB i have solod everything up to v10 with dw/bow. AOE is key for PVE and if you don't have it as a DPS you need to rethink your build.

Everything that you do in pvp and pve a sorc or dk can do better not by a little, but by a lot. The reason for this is their class skill and passives are more powerful when it comes to magicka based spells and spells to increase the damage of weapon based abilities as well as having more powerful ultimates.

Thats my point, I dont want to respec because I can't afford to do it all the time. I don't want to switch between PvE builds and PvP builds, call me lazy if you want, and no I wasn't saying I'm bad at PvE and good at PvP, all I was trying to get across is there's a lot of people that play NB saying L2P blah blah blah, when if their certain build works better for them, then great... but don't slag off the NB that play a different way, because it certainly doesn't make them a worse player

I'd like to play a NB with Melee from start to finish as well as in PvP but I've found out you can't always do that. i just hope and wish they do something that increases our single target damage so I can take 3 mobs on but at one at a time

subecsanur · May 2014

damfatcow wrote: »

njowoweb17_ESO wrote: »

Dudes my Nightblades MELEE stamina builds are melting bodies...i believe many of you just dont know how to play...try play with siphoning strikes,haste,power extra,momentum and spam brawler for groups or even carve as 2 hander...tell me which class has siph strikes like skill??siph strikes is too hard for u to process with ?put it off use shallow soul for a decent healing..i believe veil of blades is a very strong ulti if not the best especially with ulti point return skills such as carve and siph skills..

There is so many builds to go with other weapon styles too...i havnt play other classes yet but i think NB'S are just fine for me..not to mention that i oneshot people with invis/stealth damage skills(magicka builds)

Please. Lower level NB players stop confusing ZOS this only sends them mixed signals. Obviously you have not reached end game content where sorc casters and Destro Dks can reach over 1k dps SUSTAINABLE. Doubling the DPS of your wimpy NB build which I have tested as well . In some cases 1 well built destro fire staff DK is worth 4x what you are in terms of DPS so please stop.

Siphoning strikes is our best ability but even that ability reduces our weapon damage and spell damage by 22% and veil of blades does not compare to DK banner. Market Target reduces almost non existent armor and is a huge drawback because it reduces your armor and spell resist by 75% as well.

Sorcs get a skill like surge which increase their weapon damage by 90+ in vet levels and can heal off crit chance with no drawbacks.

DKs get molten weapons that increase weapon damage and can even pass it on to groups with no drawbacks.

All classes can stealth, no one is any different except NB has a little 10 percent damage bonus wow big deal. Sorcs can do that as well and they have bolt escape which is a more reliably escape skill.

I'm really tired of these NB's who have no idea what they are talking about. Viability does not = competitiveness especially when the margin is so great.

Ditto, NB's are low lvls were just too enticing and falsely promoting how fun it can be, wait till your in VR lvls and realize how as you crawl thru dungeons that other classes just literally fly in and have no worries.

Oh wait it gets better when a group kicks you due to just being a non staff NB. Trials? what are those?

F7sus4 · May 2014

subecsanur wrote: »

Oh wait it gets better when a group kicks you due to just being a non staff NB. Trials? what are those?

Non-staff NB only? Mate, you were lucky. Being Destruction/Restoration NB machine wouldn't help many players (including me) as well. I was tired being at the mercy of my guild.

NordJitsu · May 2014

You want to clear trash like those DKs and Sorcs you're seeing?

Go magicka/light armor/d-staff. Volcanic Rune, Sap Essence, Elemental Ring, Siphoning Attacks, Inner Light.

Done. And you'll have better sustain.

"But I'm Dual Wield with medium armor."

Replace Elemental Ring with Whirling Blades. Maybe replace Volcanic Rune with Lotus Fan. Swap out Inner Light for Ember Explosion. Same same.

NBs problem is the bugs, not the mechanics of the class. Its nice that you guys are getting things fixed. Its really nice (for you) that you're also getting buffs.

Anyone who is complaining that these buffs don't go far enough is just asking to be able to 1-shot everything. They aren't seeking balance, they want to be OP.

NBs will be FOTM after these fixes/buffs go live. Be prepared to defend yourselves against a volley of "NBs are so OP" threads, because they are coming.

Vuron · May 2014

F7sus4 wrote: »

The difference between PvE and PvP is obvious. While I (as a high-VR NB) had no problem with PvE-gaming there were other factors that completely took me down:

1) Lack of PvP strength (basing either on luck or long-fight sustaining);
2) Some group dungeon fragility;
3) Massive group-kickout: "Sorry, no need for NB";
4) Trials group-kickout: "Sorry, no need for NB".

This sums that NB as utility-class isn't even much of an utility. And in every other field (tanking, DPS, healing) we're overpowered by DK, Sorc and Templar respectively.

All that could be done now is switching to Destro-/Resto-staff and pretend we're Sorcerers. There is some class-mechanic that suits them (Sap Essence+Impulse, Swallow Soul+Restoration passives), but in most cases this is not enough. And obviously not the only reliable style NB was meant to play.

PS. This game is not 2-months old (as someone stated). Including beta-run, it would be a year at least.

You've hit on part of the problem going on in this thread.

There are comments saying that NBs suck, my NB is the greatest, you're crap, you're low level, etc.

The issue we're having is that most people are only looking at the problems from their own perspective. Solo PvP, group PvP, solo PvE, group PvE, and end-game trials and dungeons all have their own issues.

It is quite possible to be strictly a solo PvP player and not experience most of these issues. Yes, a solo PvP NB that gets the drop on another player from stealth is a pretty powerful beast. This, in no way, impacts the struggles that a NB is having trying to do trials.

I had no issues soloing to the end game with magicka based NB. I have no problems doing solo PvP and can change my build around to be effective in group PvP. I am less effective in group dungeons without a major build overhaul. And, as we've seen from the trial leaderboards, NBs aren't needed or wanted to do these trials.

It would be much clearer and easier for ZOS to decipher if the people posting in this thread would indicate their level and style of play before claiming something was good or bad and everyone else had no idea what they were talking about.

Oogly · May 2014

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

NBs will be FOTM after these fixes/buffs go live. Be prepared to defend yourselves against a volley of "NBs are so OP" threads, because they are coming.

Oh puh-lease. The only thing we want is to be on equal footing here. You know, the opposite of "NO NB'S!" when we want to do something else besides wanting to kill ourselves over vet questing.

Hell will freeze over and NB's will be totally OP when we're atually desired in group play. Go away.

Blinks · May 2014

Whats going to make me laugh more than ANYTHING, is if we do get a slight buff to bring us up to par. How much whining and biatching will Sorcs/DKs make when a NB can actually kill them?

"OMFG!!! WTF IS THIS!! a NB shouldn't be able to kill me!!!, thats it FORUM TIME!!! I'm making a thread!"

The Devs made this thread....not us

damfatcow · May 2014

NordJitsu wrote: »

You want to clear trash like those DKs and Sorcs you're seeing?

Go magicka/light armor/d-staff. Volcanic Rune, Sap Essence, Elemental Ring, Siphoning Attacks, Inner Light.

Done. And you'll have better sustain.

"But I'm Dual Wield with medium armor."

Replace Elemental Ring with Whirling Blades. Maybe replace Volcanic Rune with Lotus Fan. Swap out Inner Light for Ember Explosion. Same same.

NBs problem is the bugs, not the mechanics of the class. Its nice that you guys are getting things fixed. Its really nice (for you) that you're also getting buffs.

Anyone who is complaining that these buffs don't go far enough is just asking to be able to 1-shot everything. They aren't seeking balance, they want to be OP.

NBs will be FOTM after these fixes/buffs go live. Be prepared to defend yourselves against a volley of "NBs are so OP" threads, because they are coming.

To be quite honest, even if we do become a FOTM class we definitely deserve it after being swept under the rug for so long. If being a FOTM class means I can be the best Single Target DPS and AOE that can possibly be in this game for over 1 year without any nerfs then yes I want to be a FOTM class. Oh don't worry I don't mind defending against a volley of Nbs are so OP threads.

F7sus4 · May 2014

Yes, so this is ex. VR10 NB Destro/Restro/DW/Bow (50 points each) that left his fortune at the church for respeccing. (No need to start a war, they may buy the whole Empire with that gold alone, lol.) ;-)

As I said, it is no problem with soloing the PvE content. The problem is that while all the other classes are good in (at least) one thing, NBs are mediocre at everything, Or worse. This affects the "wanted" status for NBs in groups, dungeon-runs and trials.

However, advising Lotus Fan as a reliable AoE skill is good until you reach VR1 (or VR5 for really hardcore gamer). Since the damage scaling starts to be mediocre at some point, the skill naturally starts to suck. On the other side, not everyone wants to rely on Destro-staff's Impulse/Pulsar. Leveling abandoned skill-tree up to 50 (and waiting for the morphed skills to reach rank IV) at VR10-12 is a serious pain, I assure you.

Please refer to complaints of top-notch players at TheoryCrafting forums as well. Let me quote something: "The thing I have noticed playing with Nightblade (...) is that I squeeze sweat fighting two mobs and getting their HP bar slowly down… Then – PUFF!!! – a Dragonknight/Sorcerer appears – BOOM! BOOM! – and the mobs are dead within a second."

NordJitsu · May 2014

@damfatcow‌

I don't disagree. I think NBs deserve plenty of love, especially after the bugs that ruined the class for so long.

I'm happy about these changes and so are the NBs in my guild.

But I think crying that these massive changes don't go far enough is just silly.

damfatcow · May 2014

NordJitsu wrote: »

@damfatcow‌

I don't disagree. I think NBs deserve plenty of love, especially after the bugs that ruined the class for so long.

I'm happy about these changes and so are the NBs in my guild.

But I think crying that these massive changes don't go far enough is just silly.

Hey, at least we are crying about it in the only thread made for NBs and not spamming all over other areas of the forums. NB's need a place to vent sometimes. Reading this sticky thread for me is more fun than playing my v12 vamp NB sometimes lol.

Blinks · May 2014

Another TRUE STORY!

frwinters_ESO · May 2014

I say Nightblades are fine. Don't change a thing. Love the class. Not even being sarcastic. I have played all the classes and the only other one i would consider making an alt for is a Sorc.

Beeftips · May 2014

So I was in a trials PUG last night. The leader kicked me, a VR 12NB, from the group because other people preferred a sorc for DPS than a NB because "Nightblade DPS sucks". Yea, thanks Zenimax for ruining NB reps because of BS bugs that you procrastinated on fixing. NBs are known as the Phucked DPS class.

F7sus4 · May 2014

@frwinters_ESO‌: Which level did you reach? Have you finished trials? How many groups were you playing with? Are you in a guild?

damfatcow · May 2014

frwinters_ESO wrote: »

I say Nightblades are fine. Don't change a thing. Love the class. Not even being sarcastic. I have played all the classes and the only other one i would consider making an alt for is a Sorc.

Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh.............. Here we go again.

martymart76_ESO · May 2014

frwinters_ESO wrote: »

I say Nightblades are fine. Don't change a thing. Love the class. Not even being sarcastic. I have played all the classes and the only other one i would consider making an alt for is a Sorc.

If they were fine they wouldn't be getting an extensive overhaul.

And last I checked, you don't work at ZOS.

You, sir/madam, are just wrong.

subecsanur · May 2014

Beeftips wrote: »

So I was in a trials PUG last night. The leader kicked me, a VR 12NB, from the group because other people preferred a sorc for DPS than a NB because "Nightblade DPS sucks". Yea, thanks Zenimax for ruining NB reps because of BS bugs that you procrastinated on fixing. NBs are known as the Phucked DPS class.

Yup, it has happened to the best of us. VR5-VR12, and it is not like we don't try I mean I see it here even despite all our efforts to maximize everything (gear, stat, build, etc).

It hurts I am telling you, this was starting already in dungeon runs even before Craglorn.

Another scenario is where the group kicks out a Templar because he can't tank or heal because he wants to play 2h DPS. Sad sad sad....... truth.

Lazrael · May 2014

F7sus4 wrote: »

@damfatcow: This is quite common thing that we, experienced veteran players, will receive typical "rUl3z-r0xx0r!" comments from: 1) casual, 2) low-level, 3) possibly stupid players. So to prevent any misunderstanding:

damfatcow wrote: »

Please. Lower level NB players stop confusing ZOS this only sends them mixed signals. Obviously you have not reached end game content

Just to make it more visible.

I mean I'd be considered a lower level NB player, and even I can see the issues with class, particularly when held against the standards of other classes. SO... The fact that others don't baffles me. I do think that the amount of time we've had to wait for a more balanced NB is ridiculous, but the fact the we are still waiting for the class to function properly is just insane.

NordJitsu · May 2014

martymart76_ESO wrote: »

frwinters_ESO wrote: »

I say Nightblades are fine. Don't change a thing. Love the class. Not even being sarcastic. I have played all the classes and the only other one i would consider making an alt for is a Sorc.

And last I checked, you don't work at ZOS.

Um...do you?

Why does he have to work at ZOS to have an opinion about the game?

DovahkiinWolf · May 2014

I'm a VR2 NB and its hard for me to go through dungeons without preplanning and strategy. One thing I really dislike is that as soon as you make your first hit you are detected. I liked it better in Oblivion and Skyrim where you stayed hidden until they actually got too close and actually spotted you. But no, one hit and your character stands up like hey here I am. I'm lucky if I can take on 3VR2 monsters at once. And the bosses are difficult alone. I play with a bow and dual wield. 18 in Magic and Health, 13 in Stamina. Magnum shot, shadowy disguise, swallow soul, degeneration, and Ambush for my bow. Blinding Flurry, Shadowy Disguise, Swallow Soul, Surprise Attack, and whirling blades for my dual wield. Anyone know a better build?

damfatcow · May 2014

Lazrael wrote: »

F7sus4 wrote: »

@damfatcow: This is quite common thing that we, experienced veteran players, will receive typical "rUl3z-r0xx0r!" comments from: 1) casual, 2) low-level, 3) possibly stupid players. So to prevent any misunderstanding:

damfatcow wrote: »

Please. Lower level NB players stop confusing ZOS this only sends them mixed signals. Obviously you have not reached end game content

Just to make it more visible.

I mean I'd be considered a lower level NB player, and even I can see the issues with class, particularly when held against the standards of other classes. SO... The fact that others don't baffles me. I do think that the amount of time we've had to wait for a more balanced NB is ridiculous, but the fact the we are still waiting for the class to function properly is just insane.

Yep. It is what it is. Those changes on the first page don't do anything to solve the current issue of class balancing or the fact that the most efficient way to play NB by far is to wield a staff which is still weaker than a dk or a sorc staff wielder.

I really hope ZOS will understand how to weed out the posts from players who aren't up to date on class balance issues/end game content and listen to more experienced vet players who have seen the game from a more "top down perspective".

damfatcow · May 2014

DovahkiinWolf wrote: »

I'm a VR2 NB and its hard for me to go through dungeons without preplanning and strategy. One thing I really dislike is that as soon as you make your first hit you are detected. I liked it better in Oblivion and Skyrim where you stayed hidden until they actually got too close and actually spotted you. But no, one hit and your character stands up like hey here I am. I'm lucky if I can take on 3VR2 monsters at once. And the bosses are difficult alone. I play with a bow and dual wield. 18 in Magic and Health, 13 in Stamina. Magnum shot, shadowy disguise, swallow soul, degeneration, and Ambush for my bow. Blinding Flurry, Shadowy Disguise, Swallow Soul, Surprise Attack, and whirling blades for my dual wield. Anyone know a better build?

Ya. Stick siphoning strikes on your bar for more sustainability,and dont get whirling blades, get steel tornado+ power extraction/sap essence, veil of blades or devouring swarm for your ultimate or go destro staff and impulse spam for more effectiveness.

Gern_Verkheart · May 2014

I made a thread about this, but I though I should post it here as well:

The real problem with NB's is not their class (although that has some kinks in it), their class abilities are great, and deliver amazing single target DPS, but that right there is the problem: those are their class abilities, which means they use magicka.

The problem with NB's is the same problem with every other class: medium armor and melee weapon attacks are down right terrible.

You will never achieve good sustainable DPS with a stamina based build on any class, and your survive-ability in soloing veteran content is next to nill, because there is no stamina based AOE Crowd Control ability, and AOE CC is absolutely necessary in veteran content. Also, stamina based AOE damage abilities are all very weak, and high AOE damage is absolutely necessary in veteran group content.

If Zenimax fixes medium armor and melee weapon skills, they will have fixed the Nightblade class.

Medium armor needs to have some means of reducing the magicka cost of class abilities. This would help stamina based builds in that they can use their CC's and class based survival abilities, but will still prohibit these abilities from having the raw power of a full magicka based build, thus achieving more balance.

There needs to be stamina based AOE CC. This should have been in the fighters guild tree, similar to how the mage guild tree has one of the best AOE CC abilities in the game. It seems to me like it would have been a no brainer to give the fighter's guild a stamina based counterpart.

Lastly: stamina based AOE damage attacks ("cleave," "whirling blades," "bombard") need to be buffed. Plain and simple.

Blinks · May 2014

Or, how about this, F*** it, just gonna throw it out there because I can!!

INCREASE ALL OUR SHIZ BY 100%

easy...Job done

now hurry up and throw us a patch!!

F7sus4 · May 2014

Gern_Verkheart wrote: »

there is no stamina based AOE Crowd Control ability, and AOE CC is absolutely necessary in veteran content.

There is Bombard (Arrow Spray morph) in Bow tree, which should immobilize enemies for 3 seconds, but it didn't worked for me (most enemies, even regulars mobs were not affected). It does change anything in the end, so don't build your NB around it.

Thechemicals · May 2014

lol NB already looking so op.... might have to roll one.

frwinters_ESO · May 2014

martymart76_ESO wrote: »

frwinters_ESO wrote: »

I say Nightblades are fine. Don't change a thing. Love the class. Not even being sarcastic. I have played all the classes and the only other one i would consider making an alt for is a Sorc.

If they were fine they wouldn't be getting an extensive overhaul.

And last I checked, you don't work at ZOS.

You, sir/madam, are just wrong.

I have acknowledge on this thread many times understanding that there are issues with the class and happy that ZOS has acknowledged there are problems. Honestly that is all they need to do. It will be fixed. But that's not good enough. People want the fix NOW or ill quit rabble rabble qq, or people suggest what they should do cause they know better apparently qq rabble rabble.

Many people still play there nightblade and will continue to still play it regardless of the bugs no matter what. People got to learn to stop complaining so much and be patient. "fix this or ill unsub" blah blah blah unsub then.

Best fix of all would be is if you arent subbed you cant post on these forums. Where is the suggestion box?

Oh and how did you check that i wasnt a ZOs employee? You make a call? Send an email?
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Inappropriate Content]

Evergreen · May 2014

subecsanur wrote: »

It hurts I am telling you,

where the group kicks out a Templar because he can't tank or heal because he wants to play 2h DPS. Sad sad sad....... truth.

This is why I love Cyrodiil as a Nightblade. Every PvP group I'm in people work together and welcome all classes without being elitist just because Nightblade is severely gimped. The ugly head of elitism is definitely in the PvE arena as I found out with trials who kick Nightblades and Templars or will only take a couple out of charity.

Oogly · May 2014

frwinters_ESO wrote: »

People want the fix NOW or ill quit rabble rabble qq, or people suggest what they should do cause they know better apparently qq rabble rabble.

Yea, I mean it's not like the grave imbalances were known for a long time or that the skills have been bugged for a long time...

You need to face it that it really, really sucks for these ppl. It's a massive collection of stuff that just keeps piling up higher.

Not many ppl want to endure the time and effort it takes to lvl up yet another class that they didnt even want to play to begin with just so they can compete with the rest. Why would they?

Do you know how much fun it is to finally get to the end stage of the game and get the "We dont want NB's cuz u sux" slammed in your face?

It's not like this is 2004, we deserve better by now. ZOS should know better.