No offense, but it sounds terrible.
If they cant get the balance right what makes you think they can create such a complex tool?
It would probably bug out and nerf NBs...

How about, being professional game developers, they get the balance right from the start?

Why does everyone feel the need to complain about other peoples play styles? DK isn't OP at all, there is only 1 current build that works really well for solo play, nerfing DK anymore would ruin the class all together. How about you worry about building your own failed class and stop complaining about others? It doesn't hurt the way you play the game so what is wrong with it? Seriously...

RageGamerRyan wrote: »

Why does everyone feel the need to complain about other peoples play styles? DK isn't OP at all, there is only 1 current build that works really well for solo play, nerfing DK anymore would ruin the class all together. How about you worry about building your own failed class and stop complaining about others? It doesn't hurt the way you play the game so what is wrong with it? Seriously...

@RageGamerRyan‌

What if you're in PvP and they seem to be the only class that can consistently take on 6 people solo?

What if you want to run trials and DKs are the only ones getting accepted to good groups?

Their over poweredness certainly affects other people.

NordJitsu wrote: »

RageGamerRyan wrote: »

Why does everyone feel the need to complain about other peoples play styles? DK isn't OP at all, there is only 1 current build that works really well for solo play, nerfing DK anymore would ruin the class all together. How about you worry about building your own failed class and stop complaining about others? It doesn't hurt the way you play the game so what is wrong with it? Seriously...

@RageGamerRyan‌

What if you're in PvP and they seem to be the only class that can consistently take on 6 people solo?

What if you want to run trials and DKs are the only ones getting accepted to good groups?

Their over poweredness certainly affects other people.

Lol DK's dont need a group for Trials. They can solo, havent you seen the DK solo it yet on youtube?

A concerned user.

NordJitsu wrote: »

RageGamerRyan wrote: »

Why does everyone feel the need to complain about other peoples play styles? DK isn't OP at all, there is only 1 current build that works really well for solo play, nerfing DK anymore would ruin the class all together. How about you worry about building your own failed class and stop complaining about others? It doesn't hurt the way you play the game so what is wrong with it? Seriously...

@RageGamerRyan‌

What if you're in PvP and they seem to be the only class that can consistently take on 6 people solo?

What if you want to run trials and DKs are the only ones getting accepted to good groups?

Their over poweredness certainly affects other people.

So ask for your class to be worked up.

If you ask for both a nerf to other classes and a buff to yours all you are doing is asking to take their current place.

Not to mention, you have seen zos "minor tweaks". Im sure they either ruin the class or make it stronger.

keithvsmith wrote: »

Archaon wrote: »

"minor tweaks"

Like the "minor tweak" to Motifs that made their prices skyrocket only to undo the nerf, er, "minor tweak?"

They made mofits a bit more rare, becuase there was way to many drops of them.

I like the fact that motifs are rare. Most player have 1 or two. Thats ok I guess, but if they wouldnt made it more rare, then everyone would have everything in a month or two. I am sure thats not intended, nor something I like.

RageGamerRyan wrote: »

EDIT: Even if DK's can solo trials and dungeons and (some) world bosses do you really think a solo DK would have the best time? LOL We aren't OP at all, we have decent DPS not even high and pretty close to being low, but we have survivability, which most classes don't have, that is just the skill setup for the DK's... All DK's are meant to be tanks really no room for DPS, but some players have found out a few DPS setups that work and 1 that REALLY WORKS, stop crying over something that doesn't affect you at all...

You are dreaming, play every other class and see for yourself how still OP is DK.
There are two different leagues in this game, the DKs and SORCs league and the NB and TEMPLAR league.

Archaon wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

RageGamerRyan wrote: »

Why does everyone feel the need to complain about other peoples play styles? DK isn't OP at all, there is only 1 current build that works really well for solo play, nerfing DK anymore would ruin the class all together. How about you worry about building your own failed class and stop complaining about others? It doesn't hurt the way you play the game so what is wrong with it? Seriously...

@RageGamerRyan‌

What if you're in PvP and they seem to be the only class that can consistently take on 6 people solo?

What if you want to run trials and DKs are the only ones getting accepted to good groups?

Their over poweredness certainly affects other people.

So ask for your class to be worked up.

If you ask for both a nerf to other classes and a buff to yours all you are doing is asking to take their current place.

Not to mention, you have seen zos "minor tweaks". Im sure they either ruin the class or make it stronger.

@Archaon‌

Buffing all of the classes to the level of the DK would essentially make all PvE content in this game a joke. If they went that route, they'd have to buff everything else in the game to compensate (trails, dungeons, world NPCs, ect.) I'm sure you realize why that's ridiculous. Lets do a hypothetical with numbers.

Pretend DKs currently have a power level of 100 while the rest of the game is balanced to 80.

Now, you could add 20 points to Sorc, Templar, NB, and 20 to all PvE while leaving DK the same OR you could reduce the DK by 20. The first situation would be a numerical change of 80 to bring things into balance. The second would be a numerical change of only 20 to reduce the DK.

Which takes less development time? Nerfing DK seems to be about 25% more efficient (using numbers I pulled from my butt of course, but I feel its a fair representation.)

The problem with DK isn't just that they are stronger than the other classes in PvP. Its that they make the PvE content a joke. Templars and NBs struggle through the content. It feels well balanced for Sorcs. For DKs its too easy (if you have any idea at all what you're doing).

Specifically, they need to nerf Battle Roar, Reflective Scales, and Dragon's Blood for DK. They could also do things like buff all non-projectile damage (to counter Scales), give the other classes better self healing (in answer to Dragon's Blood), and buff the other classes magicka and health management passives (in response to Battle Roar) but then we have the problem mentioned earlier.

NBs will be fine after they are fixed. They don't even need the buffs that are coming really, just fixes to their broken skills. The fact that they're getting buffed and fixed is going to make them FOTM after the update. Trust me, the "nerf NBs" threads are coming.

Templars still need some love. Specifically some skills need lower cast times or in some cases cast time removals (Healing Ritual, Backlash, Bitting Jabs, Dark Flare), the projectiles need to move faster (Sun Fire), and they need to have Restoring Spirit restored to something near what it used to be (for better Magicka Management.)

The only thing Sorc needs is a fix for the Daedric Summoning line and a few other random skills that are just bad (Daedric Mines, Rune Prison). Problem with Sorcs is, they can be really good but only if built in a few certain ways. There's little diversity because they have so many skills that are garbage and others that are really good.

Peddle your BS about DKs being fine elsewhere. Some of us have 2, 3, 4 vet toons and see firsthand that DKs are still insanely OP in PvE. The range nerf and increased cost with Impulse did almost nothing. Zenimax needs to change Talons and make a public apology for ever allowing that skill into the game.

Just to recap:

1) crowd control
2) damage-over-time or debuff
3) direct damage
4) synergy
5) non-ultimate
6) tier 2, attainable at lvl 5-7
7) spammable cost
8) instant cast

NordJitsu wrote: »

Archaon wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

RageGamerRyan wrote: »

Why does everyone feel the need to complain about other peoples play styles? DK isn't OP at all, there is only 1 current build that works really well for solo play, nerfing DK anymore would ruin the class all together. How about you worry about building your own failed class and stop complaining about others? It doesn't hurt the way you play the game so what is wrong with it? Seriously...

@RageGamerRyan‌

What if you're in PvP and they seem to be the only class that can consistently take on 6 people solo?

What if you want to run trials and DKs are the only ones getting accepted to good groups?

Their over poweredness certainly affects other people.

So ask for your class to be worked up.

If you ask for both a nerf to other classes and a buff to yours all you are doing is asking to take their current place.

Not to mention, you have seen zos "minor tweaks". Im sure they either ruin the class or make it stronger.

@Archaon‌

Buffing all of the classes to the level of the DK would essentially make all PvE content in this game a joke. If they went that route, they'd have to buff everything else in the game to compensate (trails, dungeons, world NPCs, ect.) I'm sure you realize why that's ridiculous. Lets do a hypothetical with numbers.

Pretend DKs currently have a power level of 100 while the rest of the game is balanced to 80.

Now, you could add 20 points to Sorc, Templar, NB, and 20 to all PvE while leaving DK the same OR you could reduce the DK by 20. The first situation would be a numerical change of 80 to bring things into balance. The second would be a numerical change of only 20 to reduce the DK.

Which takes less development time? Nerfing DK seems to be about 25% more efficient (using numbers I pulled from my butt of course, but I feel its a fair representation.)

The problem with DK isn't just that they are stronger than the other classes in PvP. Its that they make the PvE content a joke. Templars and NBs struggle through the content. It feels well balanced for Sorcs. For DKs its too easy (if you have any idea at all what you're doing).

Specifically, they need to nerf Battle Roar, Reflective Scales, and Dragon's Blood for DK. They could also do things like buff all non-projectile damage (to counter Scales), give the other classes better self healing (in answer to Dragon's Blood), and buff the other classes magicka and health management passives (in response to Battle Roar) but then we have the problem mentioned earlier.

NBs will be fine after they are fixed. They don't even need the buffs that are coming really, just fixes to their broken skills. The fact that they're getting buffed and fixed is going to make them FOTM after the update. Trust me, the "nerf NBs" threads are coming.

Templars still need some love. Specifically some skills need lower cast times or in some cases cast time removals (Healing Ritual, Backlash, Bitting Jabs, Dark Flare), the projectiles need to move faster (Sun Fire), and they need to have Restoring Spirit restored to something near what it used to be (for better Magicka Management.)

The only thing Sorc needs is a fix for the Daedric Summoning line and a few other random skills that are just bad (Daedric Mines, Rune Prison). Problem with Sorcs is, they can be really good but only if built in a few certain ways. There's little diversity because they have so many skills that are garbage and others that are really good.

The daedric line is just fine, for the most part. I use the mines for a way too CC, protect myself and do damage. The health regin passive is great for tanking as a scorc. The deadric line only has a few thing it self can be used for. Ruin prison would be better if combat did not destroy the CC that would be great fix for that. Bound amour great! Hardened ward works great for tanking. And for dps however I have too started working on a dps build yet. I will start today.

Archaon wrote: »

I cant take you seriously if you think Talons post-nerf is op. And FYI, Impulse is not a DK skill so I dont know whats your point (I doubt even you know it).

You are the one in need of a rage-nerf kid. I have various VR characters, but I really doubt you have a single VR character seeing the stupidity of your op-proofs.

Spammable cost? Yes.
Dot or debuff? So what? Its a *** morph, its supposed to add something to it. Show me something else comparable.
Instant? Make it chained? Huh?
Synergy? Yes. You know what a synergy is, right?
Non-ultimate? Yes. And it's only not disgustingly obvious as DKs have two insanely OP ultimates already.
Attainable at lvl5? Who the f*c* would care you get a skill at lvl5 when the last skill of a tree is trash in many of them. Does that even matter ffs? And your talking about VR chars? Yes, it matters. Last I checked people were still required to level from 5 to 30 when most other classes get their, oh wait, there are no other skills like Talons. What was I thinking!

cry me a river, at least you are fun to read.

I actually played my vet DK after the nerf(s) and compared it to what I was doing previously. Funny that. I can also compare it to my other non-DK vets.

Show me another skill comparable to Talons. I've been asking for this on these forums for weeks and so far I've got Shattering Prison(which isn't comparable in case you were wondering).

Archaon wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

Archaon wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

RageGamerRyan wrote: »

Why does everyone feel the need to complain about other peoples play styles? DK isn't OP at all, there is only 1 current build that works really well for solo play, nerfing DK anymore would ruin the class all together. How about you worry about building your own failed class and stop complaining about others? It doesn't hurt the way you play the game so what is wrong with it? Seriously...

@RageGamerRyan‌

What if you're in PvP and they seem to be the only class that can consistently take on 6 people solo?

What if you want to run trials and DKs are the only ones getting accepted to good groups?

Their over poweredness certainly affects other people.

So ask for your class to be worked up.

If you ask for both a nerf to other classes and a buff to yours all you are doing is asking to take their current place.

Not to mention, you have seen zos "minor tweaks". Im sure they either ruin the class or make it stronger.

@Archaon‌

Buffing all of the classes to the level of the DK would essentially make all PvE content in this game a joke. If they went that route, they'd have to buff everything else in the game to compensate (trails, dungeons, world NPCs, ect.) I'm sure you realize why that's ridiculous. Lets do a hypothetical with numbers.

Pretend DKs currently have a power level of 100 while the rest of the game is balanced to 80.

Now, you could add 20 points to Sorc, Templar, NB, and 20 to all PvE while leaving DK the same OR you could reduce the DK by 20. The first situation would be a numerical change of 80 to bring things into balance. The second would be a numerical change of only 20 to reduce the DK.

Which takes less development time? Nerfing DK seems to be about 25% more efficient (using numbers I pulled from my butt of course, but I feel its a fair representation.)

The problem with DK isn't just that they are stronger than the other classes in PvP. Its that they make the PvE content a joke. Templars and NBs struggle through the content. It feels well balanced for Sorcs. For DKs its too easy (if you have any idea at all what you're doing).

Specifically, they need to nerf Battle Roar, Reflective Scales, and Dragon's Blood for DK. They could also do things like buff all non-projectile damage (to counter Scales), give the other classes better self healing (in answer to Dragon's Blood), and buff the other classes magicka and health management passives (in response to Battle Roar) but then we have the problem mentioned earlier.

NBs will be fine after they are fixed. They don't even need the buffs that are coming really, just fixes to their broken skills. The fact that they're getting buffed and fixed is going to make them FOTM after the update. Trust me, the "nerf NBs" threads are coming.

Templars still need some love. Specifically some skills need lower cast times or in some cases cast time removals (Healing Ritual, Backlash, Bitting Jabs, Dark Flare), the projectiles need to move faster (Sun Fire), and they need to have Restoring Spirit restored to something near what it used to be (for better Magicka Management.)

The only thing Sorc needs is a fix for the Daedric Summoning line and a few other random skills that are just bad (Daedric Mines, Rune Prison). Problem with Sorcs is, they can be really good but only if built in a few certain ways. There's little diversity because they have so many skills that are garbage and others that are really good.

They are OP when they build around Light/Magicka, like the well-known Pyromancer build. In fact, everyclass including NB/Templar perform MUCH better in Light + Destro/Restro using a magicka build. I run a magicka built NB in fact.

Like it or not, but thats what ZOS has given to us. DKs and Sorcs either adapt better because the skills sinergies or are less resilient as players to go light. Ive seen many NBs in light using the Siphoning tree and they are pretty strong in PVE content as well, but most NBs prefer to go with hybrid builds or sta based builds and none of them perform near as good as magicka builds do right now.

ZOS should address the Magicka/Stamina - Light/Medium/Heavy balance in the game before nerfing the Sorceror/DKs skills because that is the real root of the problem imo.

Balance the stupid mechanics around magicka/stamina builds and both Sorcs and DKs top builds will diminish their performance (bb endless spam). Then give a boost to all the weapon skill trees and stamina mechanics because as ithey are right now, everything from resource management to damage/cost are crap compared to magicka.

That would result in a diminished performance of those builds, and not for everysingle one out there (you know, there are some dks trying "just" to be a melee character as well, using executioner/uppercut and such crap and stacking stamina..).

So yes, they should buff the stamina builds and the mechanics behind them. And they should FIX all of the broken NB mechanics. Now, if you think your class skills damage should be comparable to other builds running magicka builds, then its your own responsability for stacking stamina and spamming magicka spells.

Ok see I have one problem with the magic/stamina debate. Magic offers sustained DPS melee offers BURST DPS. For example, in my guild we have a two handed Templar, his average DPS is between 450-600 DPS on average, however the unique thing with him that the closer too death the NPCs get the more damage he can do. This enables him in group situations too average up too 1k dps when the NPC of any kind are close too death which creates his BURST, however he only uses the passives from two handed, and just a few abilities from that line coupled with his Templar skills and passives too achieve this result. It's all about your ability combinations, how and when u use them, adapting too the situation in combat, and of course what gear better enables you too achieve you maximum effect.

Cogo, no offense, but you're a level 37 DK who just recently discovered there might, maybe, possibly be something amiss with Magma Armor. I think you mean well but you can stop taking up for Zenimax. As long as they put DPS-check bosses in the game(like WoW) they can stomach a few comparisons to WoW and complaints about builds not being able to meet those DPS checks. If it bothers them too much they can, I don't know, remove DPS-check bosses. At least until they get a sniff of balanced classes which is looking less and less likely.

NordJitsu wrote: »

RageGamerRyan wrote: »

Why does everyone feel the need to complain about other peoples play styles? DK isn't OP at all, there is only 1 current build that works really well for solo play, nerfing DK anymore would ruin the class all together. How about you worry about building your own failed class and stop complaining about others? It doesn't hurt the way you play the game so what is wrong with it? Seriously...

@RageGamerRyan‌

What if you're in PvP and they seem to be the only class that can consistently take on 6 people solo?

What if you want to run trials and DKs are the only ones getting accepted to good groups?

Their over poweredness certainly affects other people.

How about your incompetence and whining getting to people. Btw. Is tard bolt nerfed yet or do you only worry about balancing classes you do not play?

vicNBitis wrote: »

Cogo, no offense, but you're a level 37 DK who just recently discovered there might, maybe, possibly be something amiss with Magma Armor. I think you mean well but you can stop taking up for Zenimax. As long as they put DPS-check bosses in the game(like WoW) they can stomach a few comparisons to WoW and complaints about builds not being able to meet those DPS checks. If it bothers them too much they can, I don't know, remove DPS-check bosses. At least until they get a sniff of balanced classes which is looking less and less likely.

Thank you for the kind words that I really didnt have anything to do here because of my level. Fair enough.

However, by now, most players, new and experienced have found out that getting to the next level is one of many MAIN things with the game.

And what is a balanced class? In the last edition of a person who got interviewed (front page ESO) about his choice so be a sorcerer, with heavy armor and melee as prime damage, backup up with magika.

For example, saying I am a lvl 37 DK, sais absolutly nothing what my "real" class, which we refers to build, is.

Also, since zenimax is constantly balancing, then your build that WAS doing good damage, isnt anymore at a certain event because of a fix, or added skills.

You are correct, I do not compare ESO one bit with WoW, because the two games have nothing to do with eachother and I have a hard time why an ESO player who likes the game would even look at WoW and the other way around.

You MUST know by now that the instances around about tactics, teamwork, adapt, communication and sometimes pure luck.

It is as far away from the Standing still tank with big gear, using a taunt button, while a healer using a healing addon to click and heal, and damage dealers do not even need to aim to hit. Just press tab.

YES, I have alot to learn, but I think I have seen more of the game then those who rushed to 50 and completely missed the most of what ESO has to offer and what type of game it is.