Sorc just isn't fun

Glorious_Platypus · August 30

I'm trying the whole "pure magicka, desto staff, sorc" style and he's level 32 right now. The CHARACTER himself, and who he is in my brain /head cannon, is the true reason why I enjoy the character, not the class.

Maybe I just need to switch it up away from destro staff but idk man. I'm just playing him less and less as time goes by. You know what it is? It's cumbersome. The rotation, skill set, etc - it's just not fluid, man. It is like pulling teeth to get this class to be casting what I want it to cast, when I actually press the button. I have to hit each skill two or three times every time before it finally casts.

On my DK it's not like that, I just play. Even on my Warden, which hasn't been reworked yet, it's still nowhere near as clunky as on the sorc. Again, literally the only analogy that's worth any beans is to say that playing it is like pulling teeth.

Glorious_Platypus · August 30

The point I guess is that I WANT to like my Sorc

but I'm really not at the moment lol

and/or any build suggestions?

Glorious_Platypus · August 30

Two handed is fun but I already have a character who uses two handed, and a little Wood Elf using a giant sword? It's not believable.

SilverBride · August 30

I have 2 Sorcerers. I love them both.

Glorious_Platypus · August 30

SilverBride wrote: »

I have 2 Sorcerers. I love them both.

Kinda like how I have 2 DK's and I love them both

But you don't WANT to enjoy DK like I want to enjoy sorc lol. Probably

spartaxoxo · August 31

I like my heavy attack lightning staff pet sorc because it's much less micromanaging than the other sorc types. I know that it also makes it easier to use, and I do like that aspect for it when my hands hurt, but that's not the main reason I enjoy that build over others. I also like it because it just works (outside of the lightning staff heavy occasionally not firing) That's also the reason I've been enjoying leveling up a DK more recently.

I prefer combat that feels fluid and responsive.

Glorious_Platypus · August 31

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I prefer combat that feels fluid and responsive.

Yeah thats kinda why I made this post because it isnt fluid

Pinktraining · August 31

If we refer to the settings of other fantasy games, spell classes should be relatively cumbersome to operate but powerful.

ZOS should add cast time to all Sorc skills, and then compensate by relatively increasing their power or reducing their cost.

Lucasl402 · August 31

Glorious_Platypus wrote: »

I'm trying the whole "pure magicka, desto staff, sorc" style and he's level 32 right now. The CHARACTER himself, and who he is in my brain /head cannon, is the true reason why I enjoy the character, not the class.

Maybe I just need to switch it up away from destro staff but idk man. I'm just playing him less and less as time goes by. You know what it is? It's cumbersome. The rotation, skill set, etc - it's just not fluid, man. It is like pulling teeth to get this class to be casting what I want it to cast, when I actually press the button. I have to hit each skill two or three times every time before it finally casts.

On my DK it's not like that, I just play. Even on my Warden, which hasn't been reworked yet, it's still nowhere near as clunky as on the sorc. Again, literally the only analogy that's worth any beans is to say that playing it is like pulling teeth.

Less time on the forum = More time in game

Glorious_Platypus · August 31

Pinktraining wrote: »

If we refer to the settings of other fantasy games, spell classes should be relatively cumbersome to operate but powerful.

ZOS should add cast time to all Sorc skills, and then compensate by relatively increasing their power or reducing their cost.

I'd be down with that

SilverBride · August 31

Glorious_Platypus wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I have 2 Sorcerers. I love them both.

Kinda like how I have 2 DK's and I love them both

But you don't WANT to enjoy DK like I want to enjoy sorc lol. Probably

I have a DK. I have every class. I like them all.

WuffyCerulei · August 31

I do gotta ask: What kind of gameplay WOULD you like to do on your sorc? You don't have to do the meta build or base mage build. You can do a lot.

HazelnutSquash · August 31

Being level 32, I'm guessing there are some key skills and armor sets you don't have yet. Streak. Maybe Crit Surge. Class Mastery passives. Bound Armaments for the crit buff and extra damage. Sorc isn't an AOE (area of effect) damage class, except maybe as a pet build. Thus it may feel underwhelming at this point.

On the PvE side, the class is well suited to lightning staff heavy attack builds, but you'll need specialized sets for that, such as Sergeant's Mail + Noble Duelist. Also Mage's Guild to activate the Empower buff. It's also meta as a basis for werewolves.

In PvP, sorc is near the top. It's Class Mastery passives are very strong as is the class script for scribed skills. Sorc is a raw (single target) damage machine while Streak is arguably exceptional and fun.

HazelnutSquash · August 31

Pinktraining wrote: »

If we refer to the settings of other fantasy games, spell classes should be relatively cumbersome to operate but powerful.

ZOS should add cast time to all Sorc skills, and then compensate by relatively increasing their power or reducing their cost.

Funnily enough, Crystal Frags and Dark Deal / Conversion both have cast times. You might also look at Overload heavy attacks that way, which will make you look like the emp from Star Wars. Those can deal a lot of area damage with the right build. I think the problem is that the OP would need to grind some, e.g. to get to the gear cap at CP160 and, if going for a heavy attack / overload playstyle, you need specific sets. They're all base game, though. Not terribly hard to get.

As to cast times on everything, that would be diabolical for PvP. Cast times hamper you a lot in this game, since they prohibit blocking, dodge rolling, and skills can be interrupted. That's not just an issue in PvP, but also in hard solo content. In regard to cost reduction: As Class Mastery passives currently stand, sorc is a sustain monster already.

Glorious_Platypus · August 31

Tin foil hat. I feel no one in this thread has levelled up a sorc on a new account in forever and doesn't remember it and now they have 1000+ champion points to throw into the character the moment they enter into the world for the first time and can't feel how horrible it* feels lol

Glorious_Platypus · August 31

Like I pair it with 2-handed, THEN it feels smooth and fun. But if I go pure Sorc, or sorc + destro staff, dude. It's horrible

Daoin · August 31

Pinktraining wrote: »

If we refer to the settings of other fantasy games, spell classes should be relatively cumbersome to operate but powerful.

ZOS should add cast time to all Sorc skills, and then compensate by relatively increasing their power or reducing their cost.

the sorcs that eventually all became shamans

HazelnutSquash · August 31

Glorious_Platypus wrote: »

Tin foil hat. I feel no one in this thread has levelled up a sorc on a new account in forever and doesn't remember it and now they have 1000+ champion points to throw into the character the moment they enter into the world for the first time and can't feel how horrible it* feels lol

To be fair, this is the first time you've mentioned that you're a true low level.

Glorious_Platypus wrote: »

Like I pair it with 2-handed, THEN it feels smooth and fun. But if I go pure Sorc, or sorc + destro staff, dude. It's horrible

So you like the 2H animations? The visceral / melee feel? Are you spamming Brawler to just mow things down? Is it the lack of AOE damage that feels like "pulling teeth"? There is one thing you might do in the latter case. Spam Unstable Wall of Elements from destro staff. When you recast that skill, the previous wall will explode immediately and hit everything in AOE. I watched a YouTube video a looong time ago from some content creator creating a build around that, buffing that skill as much as possible. I think it was Hack the Minotaur.

Historically sorc has always relied on destro skills. You can spam Crystal Frags nowadays, but the classic approach is to only use it when it procs and use another skill, such as Force Shock, as the single target spammable. No cast time, e.g. more immediate / direct, and Force Shock is deceptively powerful due to destro staff passives and status effects, once you get those passives eventually.

Once you have destro staff fully levelled, you'll also get a bunch of magicka back for delivering killing blows with a destro skill. In other words, sustaining Unstable Wall spam should be no problem and you might go full damage in terms of gear, rather than sustain. It all depends on what you're doing, of course. In harder content or on harder Overland difficulties, the sustain from this method won't come as easily.

Also bear in mind you're battle-levelled. As you outlevel your weapon, your damage will fall off. If you have crafted gear, best approach is to have 2 body and jewelry sets, while always rotating in new weapons dropped at your current level.

Gagoimaliu · August 31

I just came back to my Sorc a few days ago, followed a build from Hyperioxes, dropped 4 hours clearing public dungeons to get the new rotation memorized, and it's great, I finally feel like a Sorcerer should, throwing lightning and daedric curses down at people and just melting everything (I'm a bit of a glass cannon though)

I do agree it does feel like you need to press things a few times to get it to pop, it's clunky, but it's fun

shivalingax · August 31

true. Sorc’s spell feel very outdated, with little synergy and weak impact feedback

Umbracat449 · August 31

Pinktraining wrote: »

If we refer to the settings of other fantasy games, spell classes should be relatively cumbersome to operate but powerful.

ZOS should add cast time to all Sorc skills, and then compensate by relatively increasing their power or reducing their cost.

What ai fed you this idea. Add cast times? They HAVE cast times. And rng.

Here you go, some details copied from a turtle_bot post some time back:

"Too much focus on "delayed" damage, "timed" damage, or "back-loaded" damage with very little of anything else.

- Crystal weapon does nothing on cast, but adds a burst of damage to a light attack to be timed with another ability later on (the foundation of how the "pulse gank build" works when used in tandem with Arcanist Treatise skill that does the same thing but with class abilities instead of light attacks). Technically can be a pressure skill, but still delayed by 0.5 to 1 second (if light attack weaving) and is entirely dependent on the light attack landing on its target, hence why it often feels like a delayed or timed burst rather than a pressure/spammable ability because it's most reliable use is part of a gank build the target doesn't see coming.
- Frags is basically just Spec bow (build up to a big hit), but on an rng proc instead of guaranteed every 5 light attack build up, making it a very frustrating skill to use/face because it's either OP because it's spammed (good rng) or completely useless because it never procs (bad rng), which is never fun/engaging to use or face.
- Curse is the standard delayed burst that abilities are timed around being combined with for a burst of damage, and imo, should be Sorcerers delayed (or "timed") burst ability like shulks for warden, PotL for plar, blast bones for Necro, etc. and should reflect being such.
- Armaments is essentially a "stamina frags" in practice, but with a guaranteed build up instead of rng proc.
- Fury is a delayed proc of damage that only triggers if the target falls below 20% health (at which point a regular ability will finish the target off anyway) and the nerf of it's duration from 4 seconds down to 2 deleted Fury's ability to be woven into a combo that takes 4-5 seconds to line up that also requires other skills to be cast specifically on that 2 second timing window that fury now has to be cast at post nerf.
- Spines is AoE damage but only after the immobilize ends (up to 4 seconds delay).
- Rune cage is delayed damage but only if the stun lasts the full duration."

LootAllTheStuff · August 31

I got my sorc up to max level late last year. During that process I tried lots of different things, mainly to get all the skills levelled up. Some combinations definitely felt better than others. I eventually settled on a 1-bar HA build which sits between those of Xynode and Hyperiox, and it's a lot of fun. I generally find it pretty fluid - just cleared Volenfell solo with no pets or companions, and it was very solid. There were some rough spots while levelling, but that was mostly because I had significantly out-levelled my gear without realising it. I think it would be worth looking at both the mentioned builds, even if you don't want to do 1-bar, as the guides do have alternative gear options including craftable sets.