So after reading, it's the Conservation of Energy Sorc mastery passive that is the root cause of the issue. I hope it gets addressed, and Sorc sustain gets looked at in terms of skill costs or something else.

Zallion wrote: »

They are adjusting it for U51. People, myself included, have been screaming from the rooftops how problematic and unhealthy for the game infinite sustain mechanics are.

Yup, it allows players to go for damage, tankiness, or a mix of both without having to worry about sustain. Infinite sustain fights are also stupid; management of resources is a part of skillful play.

I watched a really good team mate in solo queue 4v4v4 on PC NA spawn camp solo against 3 players in a Sorc WW build. This is a highly skilled player, but he never died and was never in danger. He just bullied the crap out of them.

Zallion wrote: »

Since class masteries I haven’t enjoyed the game this much in a while. It hasn’t earned my sub back but it’s close. There’s some really broken things in the meta currently: DKs, Sorcs, WWs, all just leagues above everything else. They are balancing and addressing the issues, but the delay in getting things addressed despite obvious feedback on how broken things are isn’t acceptable.

I like the class masteries, it provides more options for building, but the game needs to be balanced with them in mind in terms of PVP (and PVE).

I spent last night to today testing a new build, thanks to insights from @evLRise 's excellent post on the PTS forum on class masteries:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/697885/class-mastery-breakdown-tierlist-for-solo-pvp-group-pvp-to-showcase-where-adjustments-are-needed

He was 100% right that Erudite's Rigor is a strong mastery. I hadn't tried it but am glad I did. It's at least helping me stay upright longer in fights vs Sorc WWs and DKs.

I played about 15 4v4v4's in solo queue and it's been fun for the most part.

Hopefully when U51 goes live the PVP balance will be in a good-enough state. If it is, I'll strongly consider resubbing.

taugrim wrote: »

Zallion wrote: »

They are adjusting it for U51. People, myself included, have been screaming from the rooftops how problematic and unhealthy for the game infinite sustain mechanics are.

Yup, it allows players to go for damage, tankiness, or a mix of both without having to worry about sustain. Infinite sustain fights are also stupid; management of resources is a part of skillful play.

I watched a really good team mate in solo queue 4v4v4 on PC NA spawn camp solo against 3 players in a Sorc WW build. This is a highly skilled player, but he never died and was never in danger. He just bullied the crap out of them.

Zallion wrote: »

Since class masteries I haven’t enjoyed the game this much in a while. It hasn’t earned my sub back but it’s close. There’s some really broken things in the meta currently: DKs, Sorcs, WWs, all just leagues above everything else. They are balancing and addressing the issues, but the delay in getting things addressed despite obvious feedback on how broken things are isn’t acceptable.

I like the class masteries, it provides more options for building, but the game needs to be balanced with them in mind in terms of PVP (and PVE).

I spent last night to today testing a new build, thanks to insights from @evLRise 's excellent post on the PTS forum on class masteries:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/697885/class-mastery-breakdown-tierlist-for-solo-pvp-group-pvp-to-showcase-where-adjustments-are-needed

He was 100% right that Erudite's Rigor is a strong mastery. I hadn't tried it but am glad I did. It's at least helping me stay upright longer in fights vs Sorc WWs and DKs.

I played about 15 4v4v4's in solo queue and it's been fun for the most part.

Hopefully when U51 goes live the PVP balance will be in a good-enough state. If it is, I'll strongly consider resubbing.

Yeah no class should sustain with such little effort as live Dk and Sorc, and WW by extension of Sorc. I’m hoping the adjustments are enough, but they very well may not be, in the case of Dk don’t seem to be but their whip damage was heavily culled.

Hats off for running Arc, sometimes I feel like I’m the only one trying to make it work sometimes lol. And pure arc is tough in this meta, but there’s some viable builds you can make work. Erudites if you’re 1vx or small scale is a no brainer. Fate Realigned and/or Unbound Potential really open up a heavy hitting burst window. The damage is there on that class but it’s hindered by sustain, at least in contrast to this meta we find ourselves in now. But the masteries are what truly made this class remotely viable. They’ve made Templar practically invincible, just needs more damage/burst because it lacks finishing power, made Necro more viable than it’s been in years etc. The only class to not really get anything too great was NB. I took a hiatus with subclassing, the masteries are what made me return.

But obvious over performing ones should still be reigned in. Some people say just buff more classes instead of nerf anything, but power creep is already such a huge problem in this game. And it’s much easier to tune down 1-2 things than to buff every other class.

My guess is that the next pass of balance changes will be a solid step in the right direction at the very least. But it won’t be enough to break up the current meta and those three classes will still be at the top, but the gap will tighten.

DKs CoF is still too high on the sustain. Though their whips got gutted we’re still in a corro/onslaught meta so that may not be felt as much. Though the overall damage decrease will make them much less problematic so a step in the right direction.

Sorcs, CoE still procs on core combat and health costing abilities which will still really push their sustain still, though they get a huge hit on static reverberation. Again, will tune it down which is a good thing.

WWs effected by sorc nerfs. In combo with their cost increases, they got it the worst, but they are whats the most problematic in my opinion. I can still kill Sorcs and DKs, but WWs can just face tank the entire server.

The balance between the rest of the classes is actually pretty decent. I don’t even know what class would rank 3rd below DK and Sorc. Imo either warden or necro but it isn’t so obvious and an argument could be made either way. That’s a good place to have balance at, where it’s more subjective what’s performing the best.

Firstmep wrote: »

I understand why some people really like infinite sustain, and also dread the morrowind style drought gameplay, but I do belive there's a happy medium in between.
A lot of the sources of sustain currently available are a pittance compared to what Coe and Cof provide.

Most sustain sets are just bad at this point, especially single resource ones for example.

Also these piecemeal changes aren't really all that amazing, I truly do belive we need a full pass on sustain, bring up underwhelming options and crunch down overperforming ones.
I don't think anyone should be forced to run wretched + roksa, on contray, we should be able to pick and choose how we get our sustain, but it also shouldn't come from a single source.

2+ years ago I used to run Wretched in most of my PVP builds because it's so strong at sustain. I've never found it necessary to run Wretched + Roksa. But that said, having one 5-pc set already chosen really limited build diversity.

Eventually, I started running Orzorga's Smoked Bear Haunch and that freed me up to pair up whatever two 5-pc sets I wanted to try. It's just more expensive than Bewitched Sugar Skulls, which is what I used to run.

Agreed that the rest of the sustain sets pretty much suck.

Abilities like CoE and CoF make sustain too easy for their respective classes.

Zallion wrote: »

Hats off for running Arc, sometimes I feel like I’m the only one trying to make it work sometimes lol. And pure arc is tough in this meta, but there’s some viable builds you can make work. Erudites if you’re 1vx or small scale is a no brainer. Fate Realigned and/or Unbound Potential really open up a heavy hitting burst window. The damage is there on that class but it’s hindered by sustain, at least in contrast to this meta we find ourselves in now. But the masteries are what truly made this class remotely viable.

I played Fatecarver Arc when it came out. It was so wacky and different. But it was too strong in terms of survivability.

So I went and leveled up a Necro to try various Necro builds and Templar builds. The Necro builds felt lackluster except for an AoE bomb build, but the sustain was brutal sustain, and the corpse mechanic is so ill-suited to the mobile nature of PVP.

When Arc survivability was significantly impacted due to nerfs to Impervious Runeward and Runeguard of Freedom, it motivated me to pick up my Arc again to see if I could get it to work. I eventually landed on a DoT Stamarc build that works well and is fun to play.

For a while with subclassing, pure class builds (which I still ran with Stamarc and Stamplar) were lackluster. Which is why I like the class mastery passives, at least for Arc. I haven't picked up Plar again but the masteries seem good.

Zallion wrote: »

The balance between the rest of the classes is actually pretty decent. I don’t even know what class would rank 3rd below DK and Sorc. Imo either warden or necro but it isn’t so obvious and an argument could be made either way. That’s a good place to have balance at, where it’s more subjective what’s performing the best.

The latter part is a good thing. If there's debate among the rankings after the top 2, that means the rest are decently balanced. It's the top 2 right now that are faceroll stupid.

Luneca wrote: »

The conclusion you have reached is why PvP lost a lot of players this year. Outside of MYM even on the weekends one faction in Cyro dominates population-wise on PC NA.

And then the population difference alone is already an issue, but then you have to go against emp, scrolls, and sometimes even hammer along with completely broken builds.

This is one of the worst periods of balance in the game, if not the worst. There's also zero counter to HP stacking because DoTs are no longer useful without being a complete glass build.

It's been a disappointing year so far on many levels. I do hope it gets better.

When I first picked up ESO, I thought I'd spend a lot of time in Cyro, because I love the randomness of World PVP. But I ended up spending most of my time in BGs, esp 4v4v4 (and then 8v8) because it's the best place to test new builds. DoT builds work fine in BGs, even after the normalization of DoT durations to be longer (e.g. every 2 sec ticks).

I do still enjoy PVP in ESO and care about seeing better balance made real. Hopefully U51 will bring that about.

wait till u run into the shield stacking an group CC immunity's they might fix things in a year or 2 lol