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Crystal Weapon
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NxJoeyD✭✭✭✭ketsparrowhawk wrote: »You're wrong about it not being spammable. It absolutely is. When you light-attack weave CW will apply to that **preceeding** light attack while it's still mid-travel. Same way imbue weapon works. You can LA-weave with it like any other spammable. You don't have to use the second hit.. the first hit is the same damage as other ranged spammables. But you *can* take advantage of that second hit for some extra pressure.
No. The issue with Crystal Weapon being a spammable isn't about the "when" it gets cast it's about the repeat-ability.
In order for a skill to be spammable it has to be 3 things: 1) direct & 2) repeatable 3 Instant cast. For example, Whirling Blades. It's instant, repeatable, and each cast applies directly to the target.
Crystal Weapon isn't direct, it's indirect; it enhances light attacks. A spammable skill is one that applies directly to a target upon cast, it's not a "two step" process in the way Crystal Weapon is.
As for weaving, sure, a player can weave light attacks in between casts of Crystal Weapon but there's no higher damage component to doing that versus light attack weaving with a bona fide spammable skill.
If I were to weave LA + Crystal Weapon casts versus LA weave + Whirling Blades I'm not getting any real extra benefit from Crystal Weapon .. I'd be better off with a Whirling Blades weave. Even Crushing Shock would make a better light attack weave pairing than Crystal Weapon as both of those skills deliver either a scaling component or status effect component.ketsparrowhawk wrote: »Merciless and Incap cannot hit at the same time so it is quite different. And it's not a combo you can just spam.
It's not that Merciless & Incap can hit within the same GCD, per se, it's that they can be combined rapidly. Incap provides a potential CC component & damage buff, enabling the combination. That's the nature of mechanics. Just because the two skills don't proc within the same second doesn't mean that they cannot be combined, they can, it's just that those combinations can be mechanically different, but that doesn't mean that they are any less effective. In this case, the combo is the pairing of extremely high burst scaling in such a small time window.ketsparrowhawk wrote: »Sorcs have multiple abilities that can be lined up to pop at the same time, and they can do it consistently and reliably. They do it with ease every single day. It's an excellent offensive toolkit. Plus the advantage of range and speed
Sorcs have Curse which is their only delayed burst. The rest of their skills either have a delayed cast or are a ground based AoE, this doesn't make them any more able to synergize than any other class. For example, there's no mechanical feature of, say, Crystal Frags that increases or enhances the bonus proc chance against opponents affected by Curse. A feature like that would better enable a line up.
The consistency & reliability of combining Sorc skills to pop within the same GCD, in the current state of combat, is significantly reduced because players have more direct burst, more durability, and more flexibility to mitigate pressure which sees Sorcs class skill more beneficial for their durability & sustain than their damage output.
The same goes for speed. Every player has access to mobility buffs and speed enhancements now, so Sorcs don't have a speed advantage anymore. Increased speed is the new norm not something Sorcs have as a stand out.
We're in a game state where power creep though subclassing & the existing class reworks enable players to chunk opponents health down to execute range in one GCD .. where those same players can heal themselves from execute range, to near full health, in one GCD. Sorcs have nothing in their class kit with that kind of power. Pressure is no comparison for burst, even with the high sustain Sorcs have.
Pressure requires time and time is the biggest enemy of a player in the current state of combat right now because time either enables someone else to deal damage that you're waiting on your skills to deal out .. or .. it's giving your opponent an opportunity to heal or mitigate your pressure.
Edited by NxJoeyD on August 3, 2026 3:07PM1 -
ketsparrowhawk✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sorcs have Curse which is their only delayed burst. The rest of their skills either have a delayed cast or are a ground based AoE, this doesn't make them any more able to synergize than any other class. For example, there's no mechanical feature of, say, Crystal Frags that increases or enhances the bonus proc chance against opponents affected by Curse. A feature like that would better enable a line up.
Curse + Crystal Weapon + Fury + Bound Armaments + Overload can all be lined up to hit in the same GCD, repeatedly. This is the standard sorc combo. I don't see any sorcs in PvP using ground AOE's that would be quite ineffective indeed (Shattering Spines and Mines can be pretty good though).
I don't have the energy to respond to the rest but a lot of misconceptions going on here.Edited by ketsparrowhawk on August 9, 2026 1:49PM0 -
ViggyBoi✭✭✭With the changes coming to Imbue weapon and its morphs i think its safe to say that crystal weapon is now the worst of these three skills. The main thing distinguishing crystal to crushing was the double hit and heavy attacks but now its just the double hit which is not at all worth it at most its like an additional bonus not a selling point (same for the 1000 armor shred) maybe like we could give it its aoe effect back? like how crystal blast (the old morph weapon replaced) had? that way it can function like a semi spam on a class that is still mostly single target.1 -
pinkpom✭✭✭They might need to change Crystal Weapon to a triple hit to distinguish it from Imbue Weapon.0
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NxJoeyD✭✭✭✭They might need to change Crystal Weapon to a triple hit to distinguish it from Imbue Weapon.
Not a bad idea but if they do, IMO, the 2nd & 3rd hits need slightly better scaling.
A progressive decline for each hit is fine but the drop from initial to 2nd is incredibly steep.
Ideally, one would look for Weapon to accumulate roughly as much total damage over it's 3x hits as an equitable direct damage skill.
So let's just say a skill like Concealed would scale to 12k per attack on a target. Over the course of 3x attacks the caster would have dealt 36k base tooltip worth of damage.
A modified Weapon could charge a weapon for 6 seconds, buffing up to 3x attacks scaling at 1st 17.5K, 2nd 11.2K and 3rd 7.3k
The cumulative total of the 3 attacks would be on par with other "like" direct attack skills. The scaling is a still a decline but a bit smoother; and the Sorc still has the risk of not dealing the damage if they don't cast all 3x attacks within the 6 second duration (same as current).
I would also remove the 1k armor reduction AND the cost reduction on next cast within 3 seconds aspects. The cost reduction is redundant with Conservation of Energy and Sorcs lack an in-class source of Major Breach. Get rid of the 1k armor reduction and enable the first hit to apply Major Breach on the target for 10 seconds. This would synergize with the updated Exploitation passive.0 -
Zyaneth_Bal✭✭✭✭✭ketsparrowhawk wrote: »Sorcs have Curse which is their only delayed burst. The rest of their skills either have a delayed cast or are a ground based AoE, this doesn't make them any more able to synergize than any other class. For example, there's no mechanical feature of, say, Crystal Frags that increases or enhances the bonus proc chance against opponents affected by Curse. A feature like that would better enable a line up.
Curse + Crystal Weapon + Fury + Bound Armaments + Overload can all be lined up to hit in the same GCD, repeatedly. This is the standard sorc combo. I don't see any sorcs in PvP using ground AOE's that would be quite ineffective indeed (Shattering Spines and Mines can be pretty good though).
I don't have the energy to respond to the rest but a lot of misconceptions going on here.
And all that hits like a single whip
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NxJoeyD✭✭✭✭Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »ketsparrowhawk wrote: »Sorcs have Curse which is their only delayed burst. The rest of their skills either have a delayed cast or are a ground based AoE, this doesn't make them any more able to synergize than any other class. For example, there's no mechanical feature of, say, Crystal Frags that increases or enhances the bonus proc chance against opponents affected by Curse. A feature like that would better enable a line up.
Curse + Crystal Weapon + Fury + Bound Armaments + Overload can all be lined up to hit in the same GCD, repeatedly. This is the standard sorc combo. I don't see any sorcs in PvP using ground AOE's that would be quite ineffective indeed (Shattering Spines and Mines can be pretty good though).
I don't have the energy to respond to the rest but a lot of misconceptions going on here.
And all that hits like a single whip
Right ..
Crystal Weapon, Overload, and Curse can consistently be timed to all proc at the same moment, the rest of those skills either take longer or have additional requirements. Armaments takes 1.2 seconds to deal all of it's damage, and Fury only procs if the target's health hits the trigger.
If we want to talk skill "line ups" .. hit someone with a crit Power Lash + Corrosive Armor .... or have a subclassed hybrid hit someone with a Deep Fissure + Crit Merci .... either of those combos can hit within the same GCD and either of those combos will post numbers to write home about; and in each of those cases the player only needs to line up 2 skills, not 3, 4, or 5.
And make no mistake, those are all fine, I'm not calling for nerfs, but for comparison purposes it's easy to see how what's out there in PvP more than stacks up against Crystal Weapon.
Some like to think Sorc skills are like a DVR, that players can just "set" skills on a timer and get near-guarantee simultaneous damage procs in PvP, when in reality high skill players move, dodge, heal, cleanse, and do a good number of things to disrupt time based offense.2 -
ketsparrowhawk✭✭✭✭✭
✭Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »ketsparrowhawk wrote: »Sorcs have Curse which is their only delayed burst. The rest of their skills either have a delayed cast or are a ground based AoE, this doesn't make them any more able to synergize than any other class. For example, there's no mechanical feature of, say, Crystal Frags that increases or enhances the bonus proc chance against opponents affected by Curse. A feature like that would better enable a line up.
Curse + Crystal Weapon + Fury + Bound Armaments + Overload can all be lined up to hit in the same GCD, repeatedly. This is the standard sorc combo. I don't see any sorcs in PvP using ground AOE's that would be quite ineffective indeed (Shattering Spines and Mines can be pretty good though).
I don't have the energy to respond to the rest but a lot of misconceptions going on here.
And all that hits like a single whip
Assuming equal stats, any two of these abilities would equate to more than a fully charged Molten Whip. I didn't use Frags in my example but its TT is almost the same as a 3x Molten. This isn't a DK discussion but I think the whip is way too strong for the amount of delayed burst DK has to combine with it. The same reason pure NB's don't have a delayed burst to combo with Merc.
All classes have to deal with their offense being countered. Practice makes perfect.Some like to think Sorc skills are like a DVR, that players can just "set" skills on a timer and get near-guarantee simultaneous damage procs in PvP, when in reality high skill players move, dodge, heal, cleanse, and do a good number of things to disrupt time based offense.0 -
Oblivion_Protocol✭✭✭✭✭
✭ketsparrowhawk wrote: »All classes have to deal with their offense being countered. Practice makes perfect.
Yeah, but here’s the difference. If your burst combo is two abilities long, I’d only have the space of time of one ability to counter. If your combo is five abilities long, I could stop you at ability three and turn your whole burst into a sad trombone noise. The fact that Sorcs have to physically work harder for their burst than DKs is the significant difference.4 -
ketsparrowhawk✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »ketsparrowhawk wrote: »All classes have to deal with their offense being countered. Practice makes perfect.
Yeah, but here’s the difference. If your burst combo is two abilities long, I’d only have the space of time of one ability to counter. If your combo is five abilities long, I could stop you at ability three and turn your whole burst into a sad trombone noise. The fact that Sorcs have to physically work harder for their burst than DKs is the significant difference.
A 2 GCD combo is a gank. Most burst combos outside of Nightblade take 3+ seconds to execute (typical Sorc combo is 4 seconds based on the timing of Curse). Sorcs should have to work harder to get kills than DK due to their superior mobility and long range.Edited by ketsparrowhawk on August 20, 2026 9:53PM0 -
NxJoeyD✭✭✭✭Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »Yeah, but here’s the difference. If your burst combo is two abilities long, I’d only have the space of time of one ability to counter. If your combo is five abilities long, I could stop you at ability three and turn your whole burst into a sad trombone noise. The fact that Sorcs have to physically work harder for their burst than DKs is the significant difference.
A 2 GCD combo attack is far more common in PvP now, thanks to subclassing.
Sorcs have just as much mobility as everyone else. Players have been able to slot RaT for a long time and, after Subclassing, everyone had more access to mobility buffs so mobility isn't just a cornerstone of Sorcs anymore.
A chain attack that only requires 2 GCD has far more flexibility to be applied in combat than a 4 or 5 GCD setup that has a 1 second window of effectiveness.
I don't have an issue with Sorcs being a higher skill ceiling to play, however, the class mechs need to be more competitive with the highest tiers of potential. Instant burst and/or Crit are king in PvP now.
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Zyaneth_Bal✭✭✭✭✭ketsparrowhawk wrote: »Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »ketsparrowhawk wrote: »All classes have to deal with their offense being countered. Practice makes perfect.
Yeah, but here’s the difference. If your burst combo is two abilities long, I’d only have the space of time of one ability to counter. If your combo is five abilities long, I could stop you at ability three and turn your whole burst into a sad trombone noise. The fact that Sorcs have to physically work harder for their burst than DKs is the significant difference.
A 2 GCD combo is a gank. Most burst combos outside of Nightblade take 3+ seconds to execute (typical Sorc combo is 4 seconds based on the timing of Curse). Sorcs should have to work harder to get kills than DK due to their superior mobility and long range.
“Sorc combo” is a blast from the past
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ketsparrowhawk✭✭✭✭✭
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A lot of sorcs omit Fury these days since it only has a 2 second window now. Otherwise curse + bound armaments + crystal wep/frags are generally slotted. Look up any number of current PvP sorc builds to confirm or just queue up for a BG.Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »ketsparrowhawk wrote: »Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »ketsparrowhawk wrote: »All classes have to deal with their offense being countered. Practice makes perfect.
Yeah, but here’s the difference. If your burst combo is two abilities long, I’d only have the space of time of one ability to counter. If your combo is five abilities long, I could stop you at ability three and turn your whole burst into a sad trombone noise. The fact that Sorcs have to physically work harder for their burst than DKs is the significant difference.
A 2 GCD combo is a gank. Most burst combos outside of Nightblade take 3+ seconds to execute (typical Sorc combo is 4 seconds based on the timing of Curse). Sorcs should have to work harder to get kills than DK due to their superior mobility and long range.
“Sorc combo” is a blast from the past0 -
Zyaneth_Bal✭✭✭✭✭ketsparrowhawk wrote: »
A lot of sorcs omit Fury these days since it only has a 2 second window now. Otherwise curse + bound armaments + crystal wep/frags are generally slotted. Look up any number of current PvP sorc builds to confirm or just queue up for a BG.Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »ketsparrowhawk wrote: »Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »ketsparrowhawk wrote: »All classes have to deal with their offense being countered. Practice makes perfect.
Yeah, but here’s the difference. If your burst combo is two abilities long, I’d only have the space of time of one ability to counter. If your combo is five abilities long, I could stop you at ability three and turn your whole burst into a sad trombone noise. The fact that Sorcs have to physically work harder for their burst than DKs is the significant difference.
A 2 GCD combo is a gank. Most burst combos outside of Nightblade take 3+ seconds to execute (typical Sorc combo is 4 seconds based on the timing of Curse). Sorcs should have to work harder to get kills than DK due to their superior mobility and long range.
“Sorc combo” is a blast from the past
If someone uses say surge do you call it a combo too? 10 spammables in a row also sounds like a nice combo.
2 sec window on fury is absolutely irrelevant. The main reason it’s not used is simply because the damage is abysmal on top of that it has one of longest base travel times in the game, probably the longest, while being one of the most telegraphed skills. You say “these days” and I don’t even remember how many years ago it was at least an option to consider.Edited by Zyaneth_Bal on August 21, 2026 12:48PM0 -
ketsparrowhawk✭✭✭✭✭
✭Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »ketsparrowhawk wrote: »
A lot of sorcs omit Fury these days since it only has a 2 second window now. Otherwise curse + bound armaments + crystal wep/frags are generally slotted. Look up any number of current PvP sorc builds to confirm or just queue up for a BG.Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »ketsparrowhawk wrote: »Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »ketsparrowhawk wrote: »All classes have to deal with their offense being countered. Practice makes perfect.
Yeah, but here’s the difference. If your burst combo is two abilities long, I’d only have the space of time of one ability to counter. If your combo is five abilities long, I could stop you at ability three and turn your whole burst into a sad trombone noise. The fact that Sorcs have to physically work harder for their burst than DKs is the significant difference.
A 2 GCD combo is a gank. Most burst combos outside of Nightblade take 3+ seconds to execute (typical Sorc combo is 4 seconds based on the timing of Curse). Sorcs should have to work harder to get kills than DK due to their superior mobility and long range.
“Sorc combo” is a blast from the past
If someone uses say surge do you call it a combo too? 10 spammables in a row also sounds like a nice combo.
2 sec window on fury is absolutely irrelevant. The main reason it’s not used is simply because the damage is abysmal on top of that it has one of longest base travel times in the game, probably the longest, while being one of the most telegraphed skills. You say “these days” and I don’t even remember how many years ago it was at least an option to consider.
Before the window was reduced from 4 seconds to 2 is when. Idk what the rest of the comment even means0 -
ketsparrowhawk✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I was comparing pure sorc to pure DK. Permanent minor expedition + streak makes sorc superior in terms of mobility. The only way another build competes is by becoming 1/3 sorc.Sorcs have just as much mobility as everyone else. Players have been able to slot RaT for a long time and, after Subclassing, everyone had more access to mobility buffs so mobility isn't just a cornerstone of Sorcs anymore.
This is called ganking and it's only going to work against inexperienced players. Noob farming is a valid passtime but if you want to pose a threat to someone who knows how to play, a 2-button offense isn't going to do it.A chain attack that only requires 2 GCD has far more flexibility to be applied in combat than a 4 or 5 GCD setup that has a 1 second window of effectiveness.
They are competitive. I'll refer you to literally every current PvP tier list on the internet.I don't have an issue with Sorcs being a higher skill ceiling to play, however, the class mechs need to be more competitive with the highest tiers of potential. Instant burst and/or Crit are king in PvP now.0 -
Zyaneth_Bal✭✭✭✭✭ketsparrowhawk wrote: »Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »ketsparrowhawk wrote: »
A lot of sorcs omit Fury these days since it only has a 2 second window now. Otherwise curse + bound armaments + crystal wep/frags are generally slotted. Look up any number of current PvP sorc builds to confirm or just queue up for a BG.Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »ketsparrowhawk wrote: »Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »ketsparrowhawk wrote: »All classes have to deal with their offense being countered. Practice makes perfect.
Yeah, but here’s the difference. If your burst combo is two abilities long, I’d only have the space of time of one ability to counter. If your combo is five abilities long, I could stop you at ability three and turn your whole burst into a sad trombone noise. The fact that Sorcs have to physically work harder for their burst than DKs is the significant difference.
A 2 GCD combo is a gank. Most burst combos outside of Nightblade take 3+ seconds to execute (typical Sorc combo is 4 seconds based on the timing of Curse). Sorcs should have to work harder to get kills than DK due to their superior mobility and long range.
“Sorc combo” is a blast from the past
If someone uses say surge do you call it a combo too? 10 spammables in a row also sounds like a nice combo.
2 sec window on fury is absolutely irrelevant. The main reason it’s not used is simply because the damage is abysmal on top of that it has one of longest base travel times in the game, probably the longest, while being one of the most telegraphed skills. You say “these days” and I don’t even remember how many years ago it was at least an option to consider.
Before the window was reduced from 4 seconds to 2 is when. Idk what the rest of the comment even means
In u46 one year ago. The rest of the comment means you call simply using skills on a rotation a combo which is not it. Sorc doesn’t do combo, it’s been dead for a very long time
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ketsparrowhawk✭✭✭✭✭
✭Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »ketsparrowhawk wrote: »Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »ketsparrowhawk wrote: »
A lot of sorcs omit Fury these days since it only has a 2 second window now. Otherwise curse + bound armaments + crystal wep/frags are generally slotted. Look up any number of current PvP sorc builds to confirm or just queue up for a BG.Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »ketsparrowhawk wrote: »Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »ketsparrowhawk wrote: »All classes have to deal with their offense being countered. Practice makes perfect.
Yeah, but here’s the difference. If your burst combo is two abilities long, I’d only have the space of time of one ability to counter. If your combo is five abilities long, I could stop you at ability three and turn your whole burst into a sad trombone noise. The fact that Sorcs have to physically work harder for their burst than DKs is the significant difference.
A 2 GCD combo is a gank. Most burst combos outside of Nightblade take 3+ seconds to execute (typical Sorc combo is 4 seconds based on the timing of Curse). Sorcs should have to work harder to get kills than DK due to their superior mobility and long range.
“Sorc combo” is a blast from the past
If someone uses say surge do you call it a combo too? 10 spammables in a row also sounds like a nice combo.
2 sec window on fury is absolutely irrelevant. The main reason it’s not used is simply because the damage is abysmal on top of that it has one of longest base travel times in the game, probably the longest, while being one of the most telegraphed skills. You say “these days” and I don’t even remember how many years ago it was at least an option to consider.
Before the window was reduced from 4 seconds to 2 is when. Idk what the rest of the comment even means
In u46 one year ago. The rest of the comment means you call simply using skills on a rotation a combo which is not it. Sorc doesn’t do combo, it’s been dead for a very long time
Ah so you do remember how many years ago.. just one.
Watch some YT build guides to learn more about how to use Curse, Cyrstal Weapon and Bound Armaments in a combo.0 -
NxJoeyD✭✭✭✭ketsparrowhawk wrote: »I was comparing pure sorc to pure DK. Permanent minor expedition + streak makes sorc superior in terms of mobility. The only way another build competes is by becoming 1/3 sorc.
Comparing just to DK isn't Sorc having superior mobility. DK's have Major Exp plus a gap closer so Sorc don't have greater mobility than they do, plus, you can't ignore RaT, practically everyone slots it so everyone has mobility.ketsparrowhawk wrote: »This is called ganking and it's only going to work against inexperienced players. Noob farming is a valid passtime but if you want to pose a threat to someone who knows how to play, a 2-button offense isn't going to do it.
Call it what you will but it occurs every day. I'm not saying that every player earns a kill on a 2 GCD combo, I'm saying that they're using skills that effectively deal enough damage to do so on a regular basis in just a 2 GCD window. Player healing and durability has gone up significantly in PvP. Ganking, yes, will kill an inexperienced player in a two-shot combo but an experienced player has healing and durability that sees them trading, preferably, direct-immediate burstsketsparrowhawk wrote: »They are competitive. I'll refer you to literally every current PvP tier list on the internet.
Those are opinions and take a look at the builds that people base those assumptions on, they look more like:
Front: Blood 4 Blood > Rending Slashes > Streak > Ward > Inner Light > Thrive
Back: Dark Deal > Crit Surge > Hurricane > Ele Sus > Healing Soul > Reviving Barrier
This is incredibly common among Sorcs right now. The Sorc skills here are mainly utility and sustain, which is exactly what they're good for. The majority of the damage is coming from world & weapon skills .. Even slotting Inner light over Bound Armaments for the Sav / Proph buff.
Sorc skills aren't competitive, the class is competitive and that's mainly due to the high amount of sustain and durability they received from Mastery passives. Prior to Mastery passives you didn't see gaggles of Sorcs in PvP. Sure, we all see more Sorcs now but the most effective ones, that actually land on leaderboards, run builds that look like this or very close to it.
Edited by NxJoeyD on August 21, 2026 4:57PM0 -
ketsparrowhawk✭✭✭✭✭
✭ketsparrowhawk wrote: »I was comparing pure sorc to pure DK. Permanent minor expedition + streak makes sorc superior in terms of mobility. The only way another build competes is by becoming 1/3 sorc.
Comparing just to DK isn't Sorc having superior mobility. DK's have Major Exp plus a gap closer so Sorc don't have greater mobility than they do, plus, you can't ignore RaT, practically everyone slots it so everyone has mobility.ketsparrowhawk wrote: »This is called ganking and it's only going to work against inexperienced players. Noob farming is a valid passtime but if you want to pose a threat to someone who knows how to play, a 2-button offense isn't going to do it.
Call it what you will but it occurs every day. I'm not saying that every player earns a kill on a 2 GCD combo, I'm saying that they're using skills that effectively deal enough damage to do so on a regular basis in just a 2 GCD window. Player healing and durability has gone up significantly in PvP. Ganking, yes, will kill an inexperienced player in a two-shot combo but an experienced player has healing and durability that sees them trading, preferably, direct-immediate burstsketsparrowhawk wrote: »They are competitive. I'll refer you to literally every current PvP tier list on the internet.
Those are opinions and take a look at the builds that people base those assumptions on, they look more like:
Front: Blood 4 Blood > Rending Slashes > Streak > Ward > Inner Light > Thrive
Back: Dark Deal > Crit Surge > Hurricane > Ele Sus > Healing Soul > Reviving Barrier
This is incredibly common among Sorcs right now. The Sorc skills here are mainly utility and sustain, which is exactly what they're good for. The majority of the damage is coming from world & weapon skills .. Even slotting Inner light over Bound Armaments for the Sav / Proph buff.
Sorc skills aren't competitive, the class is competitive and that's mainly due to the high amount of sustain and durability they received from Mastery passives. Prior to Mastery passives you didn't see gaggles of Sorcs in PvP. Sure, we all see more Sorcs now but the most effective ones, that actually land on leaderboards, run builds that look like this or very close to it.
We've been through this already. I gave many examples and you cannot provide a single one that isn't a PVE build.0 -
NxJoeyD✭✭✭✭ketsparrowhawk wrote: »ketsparrowhawk wrote: »I was comparing pure sorc to pure DK. Permanent minor expedition + streak makes sorc superior in terms of mobility. The only way another build competes is by becoming 1/3 sorc.
Comparing just to DK isn't Sorc having superior mobility. DK's have Major Exp plus a gap closer so Sorc don't have greater mobility than they do, plus, you can't ignore RaT, practically everyone slots it so everyone has mobility.ketsparrowhawk wrote: »This is called ganking and it's only going to work against inexperienced players. Noob farming is a valid passtime but if you want to pose a threat to someone who knows how to play, a 2-button offense isn't going to do it.
Call it what you will but it occurs every day. I'm not saying that every player earns a kill on a 2 GCD combo, I'm saying that they're using skills that effectively deal enough damage to do so on a regular basis in just a 2 GCD window. Player healing and durability has gone up significantly in PvP. Ganking, yes, will kill an inexperienced player in a two-shot combo but an experienced player has healing and durability that sees them trading, preferably, direct-immediate burstsketsparrowhawk wrote: »They are competitive. I'll refer you to literally every current PvP tier list on the internet.
Those are opinions and take a look at the builds that people base those assumptions on, they look more like:
Front: Blood 4 Blood > Rending Slashes > Streak > Ward > Inner Light > Thrive
Back: Dark Deal > Crit Surge > Hurricane > Ele Sus > Healing Soul > Reviving Barrier
This is incredibly common among Sorcs right now. The Sorc skills here are mainly utility and sustain, which is exactly what they're good for. The majority of the damage is coming from world & weapon skills .. Even slotting Inner light over Bound Armaments for the Sav / Proph buff.
Sorc skills aren't competitive, the class is competitive and that's mainly due to the high amount of sustain and durability they received from Mastery passives. Prior to Mastery passives you didn't see gaggles of Sorcs in PvP. Sure, we all see more Sorcs now but the most effective ones, that actually land on leaderboards, run builds that look like this or very close to it.
We've been through this already. I gave many examples and you cannot provide a single one that isn't a PVE build.
If you think that was a PvE build then that explains a lot.0 -
ketsparrowhawk✭✭✭✭✭
✭ketsparrowhawk wrote: »ketsparrowhawk wrote: »I was comparing pure sorc to pure DK. Permanent minor expedition + streak makes sorc superior in terms of mobility. The only way another build competes is by becoming 1/3 sorc.
Comparing just to DK isn't Sorc having superior mobility. DK's have Major Exp plus a gap closer so Sorc don't have greater mobility than they do, plus, you can't ignore RaT, practically everyone slots it so everyone has mobility.ketsparrowhawk wrote: »This is called ganking and it's only going to work against inexperienced players. Noob farming is a valid passtime but if you want to pose a threat to someone who knows how to play, a 2-button offense isn't going to do it.
Call it what you will but it occurs every day. I'm not saying that every player earns a kill on a 2 GCD combo, I'm saying that they're using skills that effectively deal enough damage to do so on a regular basis in just a 2 GCD window. Player healing and durability has gone up significantly in PvP. Ganking, yes, will kill an inexperienced player in a two-shot combo but an experienced player has healing and durability that sees them trading, preferably, direct-immediate burstsketsparrowhawk wrote: »They are competitive. I'll refer you to literally every current PvP tier list on the internet.
Those are opinions and take a look at the builds that people base those assumptions on, they look more like:
Front: Blood 4 Blood > Rending Slashes > Streak > Ward > Inner Light > Thrive
Back: Dark Deal > Crit Surge > Hurricane > Ele Sus > Healing Soul > Reviving Barrier
This is incredibly common among Sorcs right now. The Sorc skills here are mainly utility and sustain, which is exactly what they're good for. The majority of the damage is coming from world & weapon skills .. Even slotting Inner light over Bound Armaments for the Sav / Proph buff.
Sorc skills aren't competitive, the class is competitive and that's mainly due to the high amount of sustain and durability they received from Mastery passives. Prior to Mastery passives you didn't see gaggles of Sorcs in PvP. Sure, we all see more Sorcs now but the most effective ones, that actually land on leaderboards, run builds that look like this or very close to it.
We've been through this already. I gave many examples and you cannot provide a single one that isn't a PVE build.
If you think that was a PvE build then that explains a lot.
You wrote down a list of skills. But when I search the internet for someone using a build like that I cannot find one for U50. Any actual examples you've provided have all been for PVE. I'm sorry but you are not going to kill any serious PvPer with ele sus, rending and b4b.Edited by ketsparrowhawk on August 21, 2026 5:09PM0 -
NxJoeyD✭✭✭✭ketsparrowhawk wrote: »ketsparrowhawk wrote: »ketsparrowhawk wrote: »I was comparing pure sorc to pure DK. Permanent minor expedition + streak makes sorc superior in terms of mobility. The only way another build competes is by becoming 1/3 sorc.
Comparing just to DK isn't Sorc having superior mobility. DK's have Major Exp plus a gap closer so Sorc don't have greater mobility than they do, plus, you can't ignore RaT, practically everyone slots it so everyone has mobility.ketsparrowhawk wrote: »This is called ganking and it's only going to work against inexperienced players. Noob farming is a valid passtime but if you want to pose a threat to someone who knows how to play, a 2-button offense isn't going to do it.
Call it what you will but it occurs every day. I'm not saying that every player earns a kill on a 2 GCD combo, I'm saying that they're using skills that effectively deal enough damage to do so on a regular basis in just a 2 GCD window. Player healing and durability has gone up significantly in PvP. Ganking, yes, will kill an inexperienced player in a two-shot combo but an experienced player has healing and durability that sees them trading, preferably, direct-immediate burstsketsparrowhawk wrote: »They are competitive. I'll refer you to literally every current PvP tier list on the internet.
Those are opinions and take a look at the builds that people base those assumptions on, they look more like:
Front: Blood 4 Blood > Rending Slashes > Streak > Ward > Inner Light > Thrive
Back: Dark Deal > Crit Surge > Hurricane > Ele Sus > Healing Soul > Reviving Barrier
This is incredibly common among Sorcs right now. The Sorc skills here are mainly utility and sustain, which is exactly what they're good for. The majority of the damage is coming from world & weapon skills .. Even slotting Inner light over Bound Armaments for the Sav / Proph buff.
Sorc skills aren't competitive, the class is competitive and that's mainly due to the high amount of sustain and durability they received from Mastery passives. Prior to Mastery passives you didn't see gaggles of Sorcs in PvP. Sure, we all see more Sorcs now but the most effective ones, that actually land on leaderboards, run builds that look like this or very close to it.
We've been through this already. I gave many examples and you cannot provide a single one that isn't a PVE build.
If you think that was a PvE build then that explains a lot.
You wrote down a list of skills. But when I search the internet for someone using a build like that I cannot find one for U50. Any actual examples you've provided have all been for PVE.
When you search the internet? First, do you not play the game? These skills are everywhere.
And no, the Leaderboards I posted were all PvP, Youtube builds I posted were all PvP. ... many of those videos includes a good amount of the skills I referenced above.
Over on PTS there's a lot of discussion about Sorc and everyone is on the same page that Sorcs effectiveness is in their sustain, that Conservation of Energy is what's keeping Sorcs where they are right now, not Frags, not Curse, not Bound Armaments .. but the Conservation passive; that's the cornerstone of Sorcs right now and everyone is in agreement. .. pointing out just how many Sorcs are using skills like B4B due to the Blood Magic passive heal rebate that makes using that skill more beneficial for Sorcs.
What you're citing are how things used to be, how Sorc pressure used to be more effective. That's all changed now. Yes, there are Sorcs running skills like Curse and Armaments but they're also not the ones you see at the top of any competitive leaderboard in PvP.
I'm in the top 15 of competitive BG leaderboards on XB NA, I do see Sorcs up here with me but the skills they're using aren't Curse or Bound Armaments, it's more of what I referenced earlier.0 -
ketsparrowhawk✭✭✭✭✭
✭ketsparrowhawk wrote: »ketsparrowhawk wrote: »ketsparrowhawk wrote: »I was comparing pure sorc to pure DK. Permanent minor expedition + streak makes sorc superior in terms of mobility. The only way another build competes is by becoming 1/3 sorc.
Comparing just to DK isn't Sorc having superior mobility. DK's have Major Exp plus a gap closer so Sorc don't have greater mobility than they do, plus, you can't ignore RaT, practically everyone slots it so everyone has mobility.ketsparrowhawk wrote: »This is called ganking and it's only going to work against inexperienced players. Noob farming is a valid passtime but if you want to pose a threat to someone who knows how to play, a 2-button offense isn't going to do it.
Call it what you will but it occurs every day. I'm not saying that every player earns a kill on a 2 GCD combo, I'm saying that they're using skills that effectively deal enough damage to do so on a regular basis in just a 2 GCD window. Player healing and durability has gone up significantly in PvP. Ganking, yes, will kill an inexperienced player in a two-shot combo but an experienced player has healing and durability that sees them trading, preferably, direct-immediate burstsketsparrowhawk wrote: »They are competitive. I'll refer you to literally every current PvP tier list on the internet.
Those are opinions and take a look at the builds that people base those assumptions on, they look more like:
Front: Blood 4 Blood > Rending Slashes > Streak > Ward > Inner Light > Thrive
Back: Dark Deal > Crit Surge > Hurricane > Ele Sus > Healing Soul > Reviving Barrier
This is incredibly common among Sorcs right now. The Sorc skills here are mainly utility and sustain, which is exactly what they're good for. The majority of the damage is coming from world & weapon skills .. Even slotting Inner light over Bound Armaments for the Sav / Proph buff.
Sorc skills aren't competitive, the class is competitive and that's mainly due to the high amount of sustain and durability they received from Mastery passives. Prior to Mastery passives you didn't see gaggles of Sorcs in PvP. Sure, we all see more Sorcs now but the most effective ones, that actually land on leaderboards, run builds that look like this or very close to it.
We've been through this already. I gave many examples and you cannot provide a single one that isn't a PVE build.
If you think that was a PvE build then that explains a lot.
You wrote down a list of skills. But when I search the internet for someone using a build like that I cannot find one for U50. Any actual examples you've provided have all been for PVE.
When you search the internet? First, do you not play the game? These skills are everywhere.
And no, the Leaderboards I posted were all PvP, Youtube builds I posted were all PvP. ... many of those videos includes a good amount of the skills I referenced above.
Over on PTS there's a lot of discussion about Sorc and everyone is on the same page that Sorcs effectiveness is in their sustain, that Conservation of Energy is what's keeping Sorcs where they are right now, not Frags, not Curse, not Bound Armaments .. but the Conservation passive; that's the cornerstone of Sorcs right now and everyone is in agreement. .. pointing out just how many Sorcs are using skills like B4B due to the Blood Magic passive heal rebate that makes using that skill more beneficial for Sorcs.
What you're citing are how things used to be, how Sorc pressure used to be more effective. That's all changed now. Yes, there are Sorcs running skills like Curse and Armaments but they're also not the ones you see at the top of any competitive leaderboard in PvP.
I'm in the top 15 of competitive BG leaderboards on XB NA, I do see Sorcs up here with me but the skills they're using aren't Curse or Bound Armaments, it's more of what I referenced earlier.
Of course I play the game and my experience is quite different from yours, but anecdotal evidence carries little weight so I try not to rely too much on that. I've been at the top of the leaderboards as well. It's mostly an indicator of time spent rather than success.
Please link the U50 build videos again because I missed them. I only saw outdated or PvE examples from you. I'm trying to find examples to corroborate what you're saying but I legit cannot find any.Edited by ketsparrowhawk on August 21, 2026 5:40PM0 -
NxJoeyD✭✭✭✭ketsparrowhawk wrote: »
Of course I play the game and my experience is quite different from yours, but anecdotal evidence carries little weight so I try not to rely too much on that. I've been at the top of the leaderboards as well. It's mostly an indicator of time spent rather than success.
Please link the U50 build videos again because I missed them. I only saw outdated or PvE examples from you. I'm trying to find examples to corroborate what you're saying but I legit cannot find any.
Uses B4B as main spammable ... Bound Armor slotted for crit buff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxMEFyTj2Fo
Subclassed Sorc in U50, heavy on weapon skills.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGtuydIOdW4
Vateshran's & Rending slashes as main spammables,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnc6nvUqfqU
Stam Sorc, strong weapon & world reliance, slotting Armaments for crit buff
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnauvMv2MjY
PvP Stream, Blood 4 Blood + Onslaught Sorc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTcaBkAMnQM
Stam Sorc with a heavy Vateshran's + Rending Slashes spam focus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOj09fAQu6g
There's lots of these builds, all recent, all PvP, demonstrating players leaning heavily outside of the Sorc skill lines for their offense.
The cornerstone of Sorc right now is the Conservation Mastery passive. These are examples of higher tier builds with higher hitting focuses. If you ask anyone, with experience, what makes Sorc viable right now they'll all tell you the same thing, Conservation of Energy.
The main point here is that none of these players are out in PvP trying to chain together Sorc in-class delayed burst skills into a single pop. Yes, some are slotting Sorc skills but those skills aren't carrying the heavy weight of their offense and their skill combos don't revolve around a delayed proc of Curse, rather, the Sorc-class offense they do slot they use occasionally, like Frags which has an RNG bonus proc.
Players can build and play however they want and there are definitely Sorcs out there who aren't min/maxed, and that's fine, but they're not going to be competitive in PvP against those who are.Edited by NxJoeyD on August 21, 2026 8:35PM0 -
ketsparrowhawk✭✭✭✭✭
✭
None of them are using the bar setup you described:There's lots of these builds, all recent, all PvP, demonstrating players leaning heavily outside of the Sorc skill lines for their offense.
The 1-bar build is most certainly not "competitive with the highest tiers of potential". Plus it's pre-U50 and tbh it's just a bad build in any META. We have pretty different ideas about what makes an effective PvP build.Front: Blood 4 Blood > Rending Slashes > Streak > Ward > Inner Light > Thrive
Back: Dark Deal > Crit Surge > Hurricane > Ele Sus > Healing Soul > Reviving Barrier
Indeed StamSorcs do exist. You can find stamina builds using weapon skills for just about any class. Even these examples you've linked are using multiple class abilities in their offense. We've already established there are plenty of current ranged sorc builds out there using mostly class skills as well, many from the same creators you've linked here.
I agree with this statement 100%.Players can build and play however they want and there are definitely Sorcs out there who aren't min/maxed, and that's fine, but they're not going to be competitive in PvP against those who are.Edited by ketsparrowhawk on August 21, 2026 9:14PM0 -
NxJoeyD✭✭✭✭ketsparrowhawk wrote: »None of them are using the bar setup you described:Front: Blood 4 Blood > Rending Slashes > Streak > Ward > Inner Light > Thrive
Back: Dark Deal > Crit Surge > Hurricane > Ele Sus > Healing Soul > Reviving Barrier
They're not far off ... B4B is used among them, as is Ele Sus & Thrive, Rending slashes .. we see these skills across more than one build cited.
What I gave was an example of what Sorcs are or can be using and the builds I posted make use of most of those skills, even the Sorc skills it's Hurricane, Streak, Dark Deal and then take your pick of Frags or Armaments for the buff.ketsparrowhawk wrote: »The 1-bar build is most certainly not "competitive with the highest tiers of potential". Plus it's pre-U50 and tbh it's just a bad build in any META. We have pretty different ideas about what makes an effective PvP build.
The one bar bow build wouldn't be my build of choice. I, personally, wouldn't make a skill with an RNG proc one of the cornerstones of my offense, even in U49.
Despite being U49 (by only 7 days), this build would still be effective in PvP, namely, from the amount of burst. The combination of W/S damage + Pen are high for PvP which means it will apply heavy burst on a target, the skill factor to a build like that are the weaker resistances. Even in U50 that build will output high damage in PvP, it would just take a skilled player to stay alive with those resistances and only Vigor slotted.ketsparrowhawk wrote: »Indeed StamSorcs do exist. You can find stamina builds using weapon skills for just about any class. Even these examples you've linked are using multiple class abilities in their offense. We've already established there are plenty of current ranged sorc builds out there using mostly class skills as well, many from the same creators you've linked here.
Yes, they have some Sorc abilities in the offense, but their secondary. What none of them are doing are trying to "Chain combo" 3 or 4 or 5 delayed proc Sorc-class skills all together. You don't see those builds casting Curse then waiting 3 seconds to try and (hopefully) cast a bonus Proc of Frags and Bound Armaments together. Instead they're opting for skills that deliver instant, direct burst as their primary offense and supplementing with Sorc class skills.
As for ranged Sorcs, they're all Mag based and despite getting significant sustain buff from the U50 Mastery passives,. Mag Sorcs have been trailing, significantly, behind Stam Sorcs for quite a long time. That goes back to even before subclassing and no update has brought those two concentrations in-line.
Edited by NxJoeyD on August 21, 2026 10:55PM0