A Question About the New BGs

NovelliESO · August 4

I like the changes, adding a 3 team BG and keeping a bigger 2 team mode, but who exactly are we trying to appease by making a 9v9? What is the rational for this aside from just change for the sake of change, which has been a common pointless theme in ESO? 8v8 makes more sense, especially when you limit the group que size to 4. Nobody asked for a 9v9 mode and the number is pretty odd considering it's not a multiple of the max group size able to que in. The 6v6v6 sounds fun, I don't know who that was made to appease either to be completely honest, but if you play ESO you know a 6 person group is a normal size. Having a 6 man max group que for this would be nice, but the 9v9 just seems so random to me. Is there any real explanation for this?

ceruulean · August 4

For the queues to work combined, the total number of players needs to be the same. So 4v4v4 and 6v6 or 6v6v6 and 9v9. However, 6v6 on the large maps is too empty and boring so devs decided to go with 18 total players for matchmaking pool.

NovelliESO · August 4

ceruulean wrote: »

For the queues to work combined, the total number of players needs to be the same. So 4v4v4 and 6v6 or 6v6v6 and 9v9. However, 6v6 on the large maps is too empty and boring so devs decided to go with 18 total players for matchmaking pool.

That's not true at all. You can combine the que and make it so that it is a 6v6v6 or an 8v8. The mode is determined at the time of the que popping based on the players in the que and the combinations available. A 9v9 system will almost certainly have more problems than doing an 8v8 even if the two totals are not even.

tsaescishoeshiner · August 4

I think they should do 4v4v4 and 6v6 instead. I assume the only reason they would have changed it to 9v9 would be for the two modes to match for technical reasons.

ceruulean · August 4

NovelliESO wrote: »

ceruulean wrote: »

For the queues to work combined, the total number of players needs to be the same. So 4v4v4 and 6v6 or 6v6v6 and 9v9. However, 6v6 on the large maps is too empty and boring so devs decided to go with 18 total players for matchmaking pool.

That's not true at all. You can combine the que and make it so that it is a 6v6v6 or an 8v8. The mode is determined at the time of the que popping based on the players in the que and the combinations available. A 9v9 system will almost certainly have more problems than doing an 8v8 even if the two totals are not even.

It is true. It's a technical limitation. A certain content creator had asked the dev team and received this response. The pool of queued players has to match, if we want 3 teams and 2 teams to be in the same bracket, so that's why we have 6v6v6 and 9v9. They also tested 6v6 and determined there wasn't enough fighting and it was too spread out on the maps designed for 8v8. I'm just relaying the inside scoop, albeit 2nd hand word.

NovelliESO · August 4

ceruulean wrote: »

NovelliESO wrote: »

ceruulean wrote: »

For the queues to work combined, the total number of players needs to be the same. So 4v4v4 and 6v6 or 6v6v6 and 9v9. However, 6v6 on the large maps is too empty and boring so devs decided to go with 18 total players for matchmaking pool.

That's not true at all. You can combine the que and make it so that it is a 6v6v6 or an 8v8. The mode is determined at the time of the que popping based on the players in the que and the combinations available. A 9v9 system will almost certainly have more problems than doing an 8v8 even if the two totals are not even.

It is true. It's a technical limitation. A certain content creator had asked the dev team and received this response. The pool of queued players has to match, if we want 3 teams and 2 teams to be in the same bracket, so that's why we have 6v6v6 and 9v9. They also tested 6v6 and determined there wasn't enough fighting and it was too spread out on the maps designed for 8v8. I'm just relaying the inside scoop, albeit 2nd hand word.

I don't doubt that they have said it, but it's just wrong. I don't know why they think it's a limitation when people queing before to older BGs could literally be placed in sub 50 BGs while they are CP 2,000. It's extremely doable to make a que with 2 different team totals, the only limiting factor is the size of the group able to que into the BG, there is nothing preventing them from making it a 6v6v6 and an 8v8 except lack of understanding.

Grega · August 4

NovelliESO wrote: »

ceruulean wrote: »

NovelliESO wrote: »

ceruulean wrote: »

For the queues to work combined, the total number of players needs to be the same. So 4v4v4 and 6v6 or 6v6v6 and 9v9. However, 6v6 on the large maps is too empty and boring so devs decided to go with 18 total players for matchmaking pool.

That's not true at all. You can combine the que and make it so that it is a 6v6v6 or an 8v8. The mode is determined at the time of the que popping based on the players in the que and the combinations available. A 9v9 system will almost certainly have more problems than doing an 8v8 even if the two totals are not even.

It is true. It's a technical limitation. A certain content creator had asked the dev team and received this response. The pool of queued players has to match, if we want 3 teams and 2 teams to be in the same bracket, so that's why we have 6v6v6 and 9v9. They also tested 6v6 and determined there wasn't enough fighting and it was too spread out on the maps designed for 8v8. I'm just relaying the inside scoop, albeit 2nd hand word.

I don't doubt that they have said it, but it's just wrong. I don't know why they think it's a limitation when people queing before to older BGs could literally be placed in sub 50 BGs while they are CP 2,000. It's extremely doable to make a que with 2 different team totals, the only limiting factor is the size of the group able to que into the BG, there is nothing preventing them from making it a 6v6v6 and an 8v8 except lack of understanding.

Thinking something is absurd and should be different doesn’t make is wrong. It’s makes it disagreeable. They only way for you to be able to say it’s wrong, is if you owned to code and knew something could be different, which you do not

NovelliESO · August 4

Grega wrote: »

NovelliESO wrote: »

ceruulean wrote: »

NovelliESO wrote: »

ceruulean wrote: »

For the queues to work combined, the total number of players needs to be the same. So 4v4v4 and 6v6 or 6v6v6 and 9v9. However, 6v6 on the large maps is too empty and boring so devs decided to go with 18 total players for matchmaking pool.

That's not true at all. You can combine the que and make it so that it is a 6v6v6 or an 8v8. The mode is determined at the time of the que popping based on the players in the que and the combinations available. A 9v9 system will almost certainly have more problems than doing an 8v8 even if the two totals are not even.

It is true. It's a technical limitation. A certain content creator had asked the dev team and received this response. The pool of queued players has to match, if we want 3 teams and 2 teams to be in the same bracket, so that's why we have 6v6v6 and 9v9. They also tested 6v6 and determined there wasn't enough fighting and it was too spread out on the maps designed for 8v8. I'm just relaying the inside scoop, albeit 2nd hand word.

I don't doubt that they have said it, but it's just wrong. I don't know why they think it's a limitation when people queing before to older BGs could literally be placed in sub 50 BGs while they are CP 2,000. It's extremely doable to make a que with 2 different team totals, the only limiting factor is the size of the group able to que into the BG, there is nothing preventing them from making it a 6v6v6 and an 8v8 except lack of understanding.

Thinking something is absurd and should be different doesn’t make is wrong. It’s makes it disagreeable. They only way for you to be able to say it’s wrong, is if you owned to code and knew something could be different, which you do not

Aside from the fact that this isn't even fully coherent, yes I KNOW it is wrong and could be done differently. You do not have to know how they do their exact code to know the code can be made to allow for a 8v8 and 6v6v6 que at the same time... do you think that's an actual argument? lol

ceruulean · August 4

Ok, well, everything is possible if you have time and expertise. But not everyone wants to spend time and money figuring out the algorithm to accommodate a 12 player and 18 player matchmaking pool.

https://joostdevblog.blogspot.com/2014/11/why-good-matchmaking-requires-enormous.html

I'm pretty sure we have less than 1000 players queuing for BG at any given hour.

NovelliESO · August 4

ceruulean wrote: »

Ok, well, everything is possible if you have time and expertise. But not everyone wants to spend time and money figuring out the algorithm to accommodate a 12 player and 18 player matchmaking pool.

https://joostdevblog.blogspot.com/2014/11/why-good-matchmaking-requires-enormous.html

I'm pretty sure we have less than 1000 players queuing for BG at any given hour.

Yes, but you build things to appease people that pay for your game. A 9 man system does nothing for anyone, it's just silly, and whenever people argue on the forums they act as if change is such a big burden on ESO devs when they make changes nobody even asks for to begin with, so it's not a point. The amount of time and money it would take to make it possible to que 8v8 and 6v6v6 is minimal and saying otherwise is just a flat out lie unless you have zero idea how code works, but then why even engage in this conversation?