ceruulean wrote: »

You will have to download Combat Metrics addon and enable it to record combat in PvP.

Otherwise you join play Vengeance since it's slightly more balanced than live PvP with the subclassing and half-done reworks.

Could you explain how to turn pvp on combat metrics? pls

Most ppl just using Monomyth mythic, gorethief, rallying Cry, twice-fanged serpent, Oakfather, Essence Thief, Mechanical Acuity, or class IA set.

Then Roksa, Balorgh, Mighty Chudan, Bloodspawn, Maarselok monster sets

Maybe there are more creative/specialized builds like Draugrkin/Winterborn pulse ganker. With CMX addon you can see sets and damage procs like Maarselok

Truthfully, Most of the really good PVPers will happily share their builds. Anyone who is a PVP main wants to see more people get into the nitty gritty of PVP!

That said, there is often a lot of nuance to builds, that is not easy to explain unless someone already has the fundamental knowledges. When i first got into PVP i thought i knew everything, and it took a lot of laying face down in that cyrodiil mud before i learned that I didnt know everything. I still dont, always more to learn and perfect.

Time and place you ask is a big factor too. Id really suggest asking either in the quiet hours of cyrodiil (where its like, 2 bars on your faction), so people arent in constant combat and cant respond.

there will always be silly gooses saying nasty things and trying to make tea. its the internet, just gotta roll with it. I do agree though, that there should be more information available in game, without an addon, without having to scour youtube and hoping you find something that suits you. But do keep in mind, NO BUILD will ever feel amazing the first time you use it. gotta learn the ins and outs of it, tweak it to fit you and your needs (for example, im terrible about throwing heavy attacks into the mix, and i know it, so i build higher sustain than most.

Asking Duelers in stormhaven or alikr or grahtwood isnt a bad place to get some practice either. yes some are gonna be buttheads, but many will happily practice with you and not just instantly whoop you, so you can actually learn.

i do recommend looking up PVP fundamentals, understanding mitigations, burst windows, when to block/dodge, etc. RiderShade on youtube has some AMAZING informational videos.

Lastly, if youre just getting back into pvp, id really suggest building more HP and sustain than you think you need. Add in more damage as you get comfortable. Playing DK or Sorc is pretty great right now, other classes have their strengths but are def not in as great a place. and id suggest sticking with groups/guilds til you get your bearings. Going to 1vx/2vx right now is pretty rough depending on the crowds/your skill.

Cheers, and try to have fun!

In terms of good PvP builds, I think most of the popular ones on YouTube are at least decent. I’d recommend checking out builds from React, Pelican, Decimus, and Malcolm (if he still plays), just to name a few. They consistently put out strong builds and usually do a good job explaining some of the more nuanced aspects of how they work. There are plenty of other creators making quality build guides as well.

I haven’t played in a couple of months, but if the meta hasn’t changed much, I’ll say this: it’s a very unforgiving meta for new players to learn in. If you aren’t playing Dragonknight, Warden, or Sorcerer, you’re already starting at a noticeable disadvantage. So if you’re constantly dying to those classes, part of the reason is simply the current balance of the game.

As for mechanics, one of the biggest things to learn is how to play around CC immunity. For example, let’s say you spend time setting up your combo by casting Shalks and Contingency, then getting ready to Dawnbreaker. If you get stunned right before you execute it, your timing is ruined and you have to start the setup all over again. Instead, try to wait until after you’ve been stunned and have CC immunity, assuming you’re not under heavy pressure. That gives you a much safer window to set up your combo without the risk of being interrupted.

Another important skill is learning when to block. You don’t want to permablock because it’ll destroy your stamina sustain, but you do want to block during key moments. For example, if you’re sitting at around 60% health and your opponent still has their ultimate available, that’s a dangerous situation. In moments like that, it’s often worth blocking more aggressively until you can get a few hots in or manage refresh your defensive buffs.

As for where to learn PvP, I’d recommend starting with Battlegrounds, since as a newer player you’ll probably be placed into a lower MMR bracket. Another great option is finding experienced friends who are willing to 1v1 with you. You don’t need to be a great duelist to succeed in Cyrodiil, but every competent PvPer can hold their own in a 1v1. Dueling teaches you not only how your build performs against competent players , but also what its strengths and weaknesses are. Just make sure you’re practicing with someone who actually wants to help you improve instead of someone who’s trying to you in five seconds.

And lastly, you’re just going to have to go out there and die repeatedly until you improve.

I wish it WAS a learning curve, I was doing pretty well from 20-50 BGs, suddenly hit the post 50 BGs and it feels less like a curve and more like a wall.

Partly of course, as a new player you just suck, and have to go through the crucible, as WoW players would say, you need to git gud. But there's also gear, food, passives, abilities, the META (THE WEREWOLVES EVERYWHERE) and the fact that you need a completely different build for pvp, lugging around an entire set of gear like an armory on two legs

Over the past few years, PvP has been increasingly in the most imbalanced state as far as the best players being unkillable. I would maybe attribute it to power creep across the board without nerfs, meaning the best players do even better. The same players in Vengeance were not outperforming others the same way at all.

Almost every BG for me has 1-2 players getting 20 kills, whereas it used to be occasional.

Cyrodiil has always been more competitive, but particularly right now and 1vXing and gank builds are strong enough that new/casual players can barely get a hit in.

And for me, I've been trying to remake my build to get stronger, but there's a particular lack of updated, proven PvP guides out there for each class. So I'm just experimenting on my own and trying not to get stomped in the meantime.

Asdara wrote: »

ceruulean wrote: »

Just play in the Vengeance campaign most of the issues you have are less prevalent in there. Gear is disabled and stats are equalized. You do have to pick a role and some perks. And you can learn basics without all the scribing and flashy FX blinding you. It's the best place to learn how to build and fight because there's no fluff and each class has a distinct playstyle. Live PvP is dead af with copy paste DK builds and werewolf only has 1 skill bar, and BG and Cyro is mostly noob stomping on people who zone in with PvE or uncompetitive roleplay builds.

Its just so empty, especially at night (i usually can't play during peak hour)

Try asking in zone chat, there's definitely people playing unless you're on console.

The reality is that ESO is now a 10+ year old MMO, and most of the people playing are veterans with thousands, or even tens of thousands of hours in PVP. It is not easy going up against people who never put the game down if you aren't already very skilled yourself.

The information side of things is just tough. Historically, ZOS has never supported PVP in any way, shape, or form. That means no in game tutorials, no up-to-date guides, and very little focus on lowering the barrier to entry or improving the new PVP player experience at all. This in turn leads to less people doing PVP, and less people doing pvp/consuming PVP-related content means less content creators willing to invest the time and energy into creating good educational content - especially these days when the majority of people who would have produced content like that stopped playing the game years ago due to the aforementioned neglect by the studio.

Alchimste gave some good information above. I have a few builds for DK specifically from recent patches you can refer to on my YT channel (linked in my forum signature below) that go over some additional combat related stuff. Ridershade on youtube spent some time putting out some high quality educational content in the recent years, so that would be worth checking out. Decimus on twitch & youtube streams daily and is a very knowledgeable guy, he'd probably answer questions if you asked on stream or in his discord. TheRealGodzilla had a discord called "pvp academy" or similar where he helped new players, although I've never joined and don't know if it's active these days since he doesn't seem to be playing much ESO anymore. Pelican has some recent videos, although I think it's only werewolf related content.

For me personally, I love sharing my knowledge about PVP in ESO. My discord dms are full with thousands of messages to people who I've sometimes never even spoken to before they reached out for help. But when it comes to making educational content for ESO, the reality of the game just does not make it easy. It really is a passion project more than anything, because ESO is an extremely niche content category on both YT and twitch, with PVP being a niche within that niche. It takes a lot of time and effort to make high quality educational content, and when you go years without a single update to PVP, with terrible performance nearly all the time, and a studio who seems allergic to even acknowledging PVP's existence - the motivation is not easy to come by.

Here's my build, although I am decent sometimes just average but it's really fun in Battlegrounds 8v8.

Orpheon Tactician monster set.
Perfected Maelstrom 2h Maul.
Oakensoul Mythic.
5 PC Rushing Agony or Rush of Agony.( Forget it's precise name.)
1 PC druids braid.
1 PC Trainee.

All jewelry infused weapon dmg glyphs.
Weapon damage glyph on the maul too.

Stage 4 Vampire for stealth sprint.

Lord mundus stone.

Have like 32k health and still decent dmg.

I am a templar subclassed with lightning sorcerer and dragon Knight for the leap, take flight ultimate.

1 bar makes it so I don't have to worry about latency so much cause I can't switch weapons anyway.

Stats all in Stam.
Skills are biting jabs, healing contingency with minor resolve and class buff, mages wrath for executes, stampede(procs Rush of Agony and orpheon in one skill), streak, and ultimate is take flight.

Usually I engage starting out of stealth sprint, hit stampede, then step a littles a way the streak back in there because orpheon hits harder if they have on CC immunity. That way all the high procs can hit at once.

Hope you give my setup a try. I been using it for quite awhile. Even before subclassing but with dawnbreaker of smiting and turn evil and other alternatives.

But this is what I use on my main PvPer, so feel free to try it out.

Asdara wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Regarding YouTube creators, that's kind of the problem I'm talking about.

Malcolm: his last build was about a year ago.
PelicanXI: for the past six months I've mostly seen Werewolf content.
React Faster: his last build was around four months ago, and from what I found it was only for Dragonknight.
And lastly Decimus... he uploads so much that it's hard for me to judge what's actually worth following, and the heavy use of AI thumbnails/titles gives me a clickbait impression, so I struggle to trust the content.

As a returning player, I honestly don't know who's still relevant, which builds are outdated, which creators are respected by the PvP community, or whether a build is still viable after multiple balance patches.

That's exactly why I think relying on external resources isn't an ideal solution.

Imagine I get absolutely destroyed by a XYZ in Cyrodiil. Instead of opening ten chrome tabs and trying to figure out which guide is still current, I'd much rather inspect that player and immediately understand: "Oh, they're using these sets!!!, this Mythic, these skills... now I understand what I'm fighting."

It wouldn't teach me positioning, timing, burst windows or resource management (i know that) I'd still have to learn all of that through experience.

Those builds are all still relevant tbh. It’s just the meta is DK/WW/sorc. Hard to post a build video when everything else is so far behind.

I think the only tech that is really hidden in terms of builds are the gank builds but lately even those aren’t anymore.

It's worth noting that the use of combat logging can enable you to see the sets and other info of people you're fighting with or against who refuse to share any info with you (there really is no reason for folks to be secretive about their builds)

Weesacs wrote: »

Play a DK or WW.

You've just greatly improved your PvP chances.

Came here to say this.

Just find s build with insane armour/hp so you have 40k health, stupid armour/shields that can take repeated hits from a coldfire without denting plus being able to constantly heal AND do damage. Seems to be what a lot of EP are running in GH on PSEU and it’s such ‘fun’ to fight.

Asdara wrote: »

After coming back to PvP following a very long break, I honestly feel absolutely lost and out of place... to the point i wonder if i should give up on pvp

I have a simple question where is a returning player (or a new) supposed to learn?

Maybe it's just me, but my recent experience with the pvp community is that they seems to LOOOVE gatekeeping information.
Every time I ask someone what they're playing or how they built their character, or any advice really, 99% of the time I either get ignored or people just laugh.

Maybe i can learn on youtube, search for build?

I've watched countless YouTube videos, but they all contradict each other. There's less and less reliable pvp content creator.
I probably have 15 different AI-generated or clickbait builds on my face everytime i try to search anything, and I have no idea which ones are actually viable, outdated, or simply bad.

Then lets jump into Cyrodiil or BG with the most decent build i could find, maybe i can learn by trial and error with other player -> gets completely destroyed by experienced players in less than a second.

What killed me? i'll never know
Was it their gear? i'll never know
Their defensive sets? i'll never know
A proc that crit? i'll never know
A specific Champion Point setup maybe ? i'll never know
Did I miss a buff? A debuff? A cooldown? i'll never know
Maybe they had more armor or magic resist that would explain why i did so little dmg to them? i'll never know
Maybe i didnt have enough spell penetration? b]i'll never know[/b]

You know what's even more humiliating than the frustration of getting oneshot and teabagged after?? never being able to understand why
I can't inspect their gear, their sets, their skill bars, their Champion Points, or even understand the logic behind their build. NOTHING
Maybe some visual clues about what they use? yeah like in the rainbow storm of skill style i can't perfectly guess each ability?
All I get is a death recap showing three ticks of the same dot and maybe one direct damage ability.
That tells me absolutely nothing about why I lost. The game just gives me almost no information to improve from my defeats (and errors).

Losing isn't the problem. Not being able to learn from losing again and again is.

ESO doesn't let me learn by playing. I lose, I respawn, and all I get is a useless death recap.....

In almost every competitive game, you can spectate, inspect, copy builds, or at least understand what killed you.
ESO asks new and returning PvP players to figure everything out through external websites, Discord servers, or by hoping someone is willing to share their build.

I don't think that's healthy for the long-term PvP experience.

(But but but "Good players don't need inspect." Exactly. Good players already know the meta, recognize animations, understand proc sets and usually know each other. The people hurt by the lack of inspection or feedbacks after death aren't veterans, they're returning players and newcomers)
(But but but "People will just copy builds." New players already copy builds !!!! the only difference is that today they copy whatever random clickbait doshit youTube content the algorithm recommends, often months out of date.)

(Sorry for the rant, this has been a very aweful experience so far)

Everything you have asked about on here is something I've wondered about myself at times.

When attempting to establish a perspective for PvP, not just in ESO, there are *many* traps and pitfalls we can stumble into on our own before the first shot is even fired and especially after the fact when the sting of embarrassing defeat weighs in. My advice, some of which has been already offered on here, yet what I will validate is:

1) Do not hold yourself back from staying informed, watching vids and learn to restrain from getting too worked up. Yes, I know, it's hard sometimes, isn't it? But take it from me, some people have done a number on me at times and getting furious won't change the fact that they don't care or that they cry double standard yet everything they do is a double standard. It's all a mind game. Good communication helps in understanding what is actually going wrong.

2) Fundamentals. I cannot stress this enough. Establishing a fundamental understanding protects you from the unknown. They're always going to come up with a new gimmick. And we're always going to fall for it. So, understand sometimes it's not the build it's the situation and you're going to fall every time you allow yourself into that situation. We cannot always simply 'wish' our way out of things it won't work, don't keep trying it.

3) Gainful PvP or no deal. Every time you participate in a fight, there is risk. However, be of stronger will and do not just blind fully accept bad risks. Because that's what will enable the ones out there who think they're better than the rest of us, who think the rules don't apply to them, who sit in the computer groups, the exploit groups and tell lies to the faction when the little people need help doing things in game.

4) Troll groups. I know it's just a game but remember this. Some are there to play PvP and some are there to abuse people's time. Examine your approach, yourself and do not allow your time to be abused. I shouldn't have to sit on Arrius Keep for over 30 minutes with Siege maxed out, some cold fires mixed in and the ball group harassing the keep will not die. Not even a shred of noticeable damage. That is the real enemy. It isn't always another faction. Perhaps I'm getting too deep but be careful following metas and what others do too closely. You'll either become like them, or they will give you a wake up one day, as they did with me, and remind you that you are not one of them.

So don't be bothered by this. But learn the fundamentals, watch others out there play BGs or provide their insights cause there is alot of talent. Lot of good people still with ESO. But we are all responsible for what we do and before even thinking about PvP I would really give some thought to your perspective and doing what you enjoy rather than getting caught up in some creeps 'power show' with a group that can't be killed by most players. But sometimes the change you want to see has got to start with you and you might not like it but the alternative can be much worse.

Reading all your replies, I actually noticed something interesting, almost nobody is saying that more information in-game would be a bad thing. Instead, the advice are:

watch YouTube,
join a PvP guild (no luck here),
ask on Discord,
ask on Twitch (although trying to find a "ganking" streamer isnt possible, they all play the meta and it seems the meta doesnt allow ganking anymore),
install combat log addons (looking at my recent testing with cmx in cyro, its not much more info than the death recap),
duel experienced players,
find a mentor,
search websites... etc

And honestly, those are all good suggestions, but isn't that exactly the problem?
The game itself doesn't teach you a thing! The community does! (when its willing to share anything of course)
What inspection (or simply a much better combat recap) would give me is context, is that too much to ask?
(responses in this thread have actually convinced me even more that we needs better in-game learning tools. Not because the community isn't helpful, but because a game shouldn't depend so heavily on external source for players to understand its own PvP systems)