New Studio Head Again…

CptTekashi · July 16

So Joe Burba has left … Susan Kath left…( supposed to be staying at HQ during the Germany community event to make a new road map)

Josh Henderson in ?

Can we please get an update on what’s going on as it seems like the studio is crumbling to the ground before our very eyes @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Kevin

Pixiepumpkin · July 16

Not to sound rude, but there is nothing that Jessica or Kevin can say that is not going to paint the picture as rosy. They are most likely under NDA (Non Disclosure Agreement) that keeps them from saying anything that can be considered negative.

I have read that ZOS does this with the Stream Team and some influencers, if this is true then its not out of line to suggeest they'd do the same with employees.

NDA's are extrmemely common in the gaming industry, they can't say anything even if they wanted or they'd be at risk of a lawsuit.

ZOS_Kevin · July 16

CptTekashi wrote: »

Can we please get an update on what’s going on as it seems like the studio is crumbling to the ground before our very eyes @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Kevin

Just wanted to follow up here. We are gathering as much info as we can, when we can. We are more or less learning about this info in real time with you. So there will be some delay before we can provide an update.

Syldras · July 16

So the people we lost had the titles Studio Head, Executive Producer, Game Director and Production Director. Josh Henderson has been Head of Business Operations before, and according to the article that I read, another Game Director will assist him.

As a non-native English speaker I'm wondering: What do these different titles mean? I mean: What is a person in those positions doing and how do they differ?

For example, I'm wondering how much "Studio Head" and "Head of Business Operations" differ.

Gabriel_H · July 16

Syldras wrote: »

So the people we lost had the titles Studio Head, Executive Producer, Game Director and Production Director. Josh Henderson has been Head of Business Operations before, and according to the article that I read, another Game Director will assist him.

As a non-native English speaker I'm wondering: What do these different titles mean? I mean: What is a person in those positions doing and how do they differ?

For example, I'm wondering how much "Studio Head" and "Head of Business Operations" differ.

Oddly enough, that would be the exact same question the head of XBox gaming asked.

DenverRalphy · July 16

Syldras wrote: »

So the people we lost had the titles Studio Head, Executive Producer, Game Director and Production Director. Josh Henderson has been Head of Business Operations before, and according to the article that I read, another Game Director will assist him.

As a non-native English speaker I'm wondering: What do these different titles mean? I mean: What is a person in those positions doing and how do they differ?

For example, I'm wondering how much "Studio Head" and "Head of Business Operations" differ.

The studio will now be co-led by Josh Henderson (formerly head of business operations) and Nick Giacomini.

[edit] At least, from the few articles I read last evening before calling it a night.

Syldras · July 16

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Oddly enough, that would be the exact same question the head of XBox gaming asked.

I'd think they know well enough what their own titles mean, especially in their native language.

I'm wondering how easy or not it will be for the Head of Business Operations to become Studio Head and how much time it would take to adjust to this new role. So basically if there's already experience or if it's something completely different that will take lots of time and afforts to learn.

Gabriel_H · July 16

Syldras wrote: »

I'd think they know well enough what their own titles mean, especially in their native language.

You miss the point. When selecting people to be laid off, especially with a focus on cutting management, the head of XBox gaming who was signing off on the layoffs would have asked the exact same question.

Syldras · July 16

Gabriel_H wrote: »

You miss the point. When selecting people to be laid off, especially with a focus on cutting management, the head of XBox gaming who was signing off on the layoffs would have asked the exact same question.

That doesn't answer my question though: What exactly these titles mean. For a non-native English speaker and someone not familiar with American job titles and hierarchies they all sound quite similar (some kind of management stuff), but I guess there is nuance and hoped someone familiar with them could explain?

Gabriel_H · July 16

Syldras wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

You miss the point. When selecting people to be laid off, especially with a focus on cutting management, the head of XBox gaming who was signing off on the layoffs would have asked the exact same question.

That doesn't answer my question though: What exactly these titles mean. For a non-native English speaker and someone not familiar with American job titles and hierarchies they all sound quite similar (some kind of management stuff), but I guess there is nuance and hoped someone familiar with them could explain?

That's my point, those titles are entirely interchangeable. That doesn't mean they did the exact same roles, but there would be a lot of duplication.

PeacefulAnarchy · July 16

Syldras wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Oddly enough, that would be the exact same question the head of XBox gaming asked.

I'd think they know well enough what their own titles mean, especially in their native language.

I'm wondering how easy or not it will be for the Head of Business Operations to become Studio Head and how much time it would take to adjust to this new role. So basically if there's already experience or if it's something completely different that will take lots of time and afforts to learn.

Generally moving up the ladder in a management job means you know one aspect of your future job very well and the other aspects not as well. Think of it as moving from one of 3 or 4 or however many vice presidents to president. You've been in the circle and privy to most of the discussions, but you don't know the little details and ins and outs of the top position. If the old guard stays on to transition, and the person is good at their job it shouldn't be a big leap. If you're thrust into it with no help and half the people you knew are gone then there will be issues. No one outside of ZOS can say what will happen here. The other concern, of course, is that in these circumstances the lowered morale and probably lack of clear direction from above makes it hard to actually do the job even if you know how to.

Syldras wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

You miss the point. When selecting people to be laid off, especially with a focus on cutting management, the head of XBox gaming who was signing off on the layoffs would have asked the exact same question.

That doesn't answer my question though: What exactly these titles mean. For a non-native English speaker and someone not familiar with American job titles and hierarchies they all sound quite similar (some kind of management stuff), but I guess there is nuance and hoped someone familiar with them could explain?

They're internal job titles, being a native English speaker doesn't make it much easier to know exactly what they are, a lot of management job titles will be specific to the particular workplace. Even more universal titles can have wider or smaller scope in actual practice depending on organizational structure.

That said I would expect the Studio Head to be the boss of all day to day aspects of the game studio, while the Head of Business Operations reports to the Studio Head about one segment of things, Business Operations. There would be other heads, how many would depend on the particular workplace, who would have similar authority in other areas that also report to the Studio Head.

Toanis · July 16

Replacing management when the team underperforms is to be expected. Cleaning house is usually the job of the new manager, though. Culling half of the team at the same time sends a message: They are no longer needed, the project is done.

Seraphayel · July 16

CptTekashi wrote: »

Can we please get an update on what’s going on as it seems like the studio is crumbling to the ground before our very eyes @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Kevin

Can we stop with this doomer nonsense?

Tazzy · July 16

Syldras wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

You miss the point. When selecting people to be laid off, especially with a focus on cutting management, the head of XBox gaming who was signing off on the layoffs would have asked the exact same question.

That doesn't answer my question though: What exactly these titles mean. For a non-native English speaker and someone not familiar with American job titles and hierarchies they all sound quite similar (some kind of management stuff), but I guess there is nuance and hoped someone familiar with them could explain?

Ask AI - After all it has to be good for something...

Studio Head: The top executive overseeing the entire company or studio. They handle high-level business strategy, budget, hiring, and publisher or corporate relations.
Executive Producer: The primary liaison between the development team and the publisher or board. They focus on securing funding, major project milestones, and ensuring the game aligns with overarching business goals.
Game Director: The creative leader who dictates the artistic vision. They design the gameplay, narrative, and aesthetics, and guide the team to ensure all elements form a cohesive, fun experience.
Production Director: The operational backbone of development. They oversee the day-to-day execution of the game, managing project schedules, budgets, and resource allocation to ensure the team can actually build the Game Director's vision.

Gabriel_H · July 16

Seraphayel wrote: »

CptTekashi wrote: »

Can we please get an update on what’s going on as it seems like the studio is crumbling to the ground before our very eyes @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Kevin

Can we stop with this doomer nonsense?

Why break a 12-year trend?!

For the bad faith arguments out there:

Why break a 11-year trend?!
Why break a 10-year trend?!
Why break a 9-year trend?!
Why break a 8-year trend?!
Why break a 7-year trend?!
Why break a 6-year trend?!
Why break a 5-year trend?!
Why break a 4-year trend?!
Why break a 3-year trend?!
Why break a 2-year trend?!
Why break a 1-year trend?!

Pixiepumpkin · July 16

Seraphayel wrote: »

CptTekashi wrote: »

Can we please get an update on what’s going on as it seems like the studio is crumbling to the ground before our very eyes @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Kevin

Can we stop with this doomer nonsense?

How about we stop labeling everyone who has a realistic take on the situation as a "doomer" or negative.

Zenimax just lost 379 (something) people. Among those tons of leadership, among those Brad Derrick, the composer who has been with the studio I think since 2009. His music is widely acclaimed defnintely not someone "under performing", and countless others.

When a studio takes this kind of a hit, and more layoffs are coming. When the game has offered regurgitated and mashed up "content" for the past two years, its not being "negative" or "dooming" to ask questions like the op did. In fact its quite normal.

I would suggest you take in some of this information, consider what it means to the health of the game and approach the scenario with some caution. Being optimisitc is one thing, being optimistic in the face of absolute uncertainty is probably a death knell.

Do you know how evolution works? Its the cautious, skeptical, and weary that survive. Not the ones running in head first without any understanding of the consequences.

Pixiepumpkin · July 16

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

CptTekashi wrote: »

Can we please get an update on what’s going on as it seems like the studio is crumbling to the ground before our very eyes @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Kevin

Can we stop with this doomer nonsense?

Why break a 12-year trend?!

12 years....2026. What is the year 2026 minus 12 years...ohh that is right the year 2014 when ESO launched as a dismal failure and had to have a complete rewrite for Tamriel One to survive.

Seems that anyone saying the game had serious issues "doom" posting back then was 100% on point.

Urzigurumash · July 16

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Do you know how evolution works? Its the cautious, skeptical, and weary that survive. Not the ones running in head first without any understanding of the consequences.

Hmm, not sure about this one

hiyde · July 16

We can all have our feelings, guesses and opinions and they are all just that.

It'll be 1-2 years before we see the true impact of this week.

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

12 years....2026. What is the year 2026 minus 12 years...ohh that is right the year 2014 when ESO launched as a dismal failure and had to have a complete rewrite for Tamriel One to survive.

Seems that anyone saying the game had serious issues "doom" posting back then was 100% on point.

To be fair, every MMO has its doomers predicting doom. Sometimes they're right, sometimes they're not.
And every MMO has it's ride or die fans putting forth magical scenarios in which everything will be awesome.

As for who's right about what just happened? We'll start to get some idea with the revised 2026 roadmap but the 2027 & 2028 roadmaps will tell the true tale of this week.

Gabriel_H · July 16

hiyde wrote: »

To be fair, every MMO has its doomers predicting doom. Sometimes they're right, sometimes they're not.
And every MMO has it's ride or die fans putting forth magical scenarios in which everything will be awesome.

It's easy to be right if you say something will come to an end every day, because eventually all things end.

The bad faith argument you are replying to ignore the fact the game has been "doomed" every update over the last 12 years, even after the re-write.

LadyGP · July 16

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

So the people we lost had the titles Studio Head, Executive Producer, Game Director and Production Director. Josh Henderson has been Head of Business Operations before, and according to the article that I read, another Game Director will assist him.

As a non-native English speaker I'm wondering: What do these different titles mean? I mean: What is a person in those positions doing and how do they differ?

For example, I'm wondering how much "Studio Head" and "Head of Business Operations" differ.

Oddly enough, that would be the exact same question the head of XBox gaming asked.

Bingo.

- xCatGuy

hiyde · July 16

Gabriel_H wrote: »

hiyde wrote: »

To be fair, every MMO has its doomers predicting doom. Sometimes they're right, sometimes they're not.
And every MMO has it's ride or die fans putting forth magical scenarios in which everything will be awesome.

It's easy to be right if you say something will come to an end every day, because eventually all things end.

The bad faith argument you are replying to ignore the fact the game has been "doomed" every update over the last 12 years, even after the re-write.

As I acknowledged there have always been doomers and diehards and the reality is generally somewhere in the middle.

But I'm also not writing off what happend this week as "oh the doomers are just dooming again".

Whether this is some Grand Rebirth of ESO or a mass culling of staff foreshadowing a massive reduction in content moving forward (or anywhere in between) remains to be seen. No amount of crystal ball gazing is going to answer that question. The upcoming roadmaps will.

Lydawobbles · July 16

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Just wanted to follow up here. We are gathering as much info as we can, when we can. We are more or less learning about this info in real time with you. So there will be some delay before we can provide an update.

Sending you guys the biggest hugs. ❤️❤️❤️

Nemesis7884 · July 16

this is what happens when the floodgates open...a downward spiral starts that will accelerate and is extremely difficult to stop

redlink1979 · July 16

Seraphayel wrote: »

(...) Can we stop with this doomer nonsense?

Don't forget that Microsoft Xbox division will do another layoff: 1600 people will loose their jobs in FY 2027.
https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2026/07/06/resetting-xbox/

ImmortalCX · July 16

I always keep an eye on this game as i have thousands of hours in it. Its sad that people are getting laid off.

The other announcement that there will be a revised roadmap, suggests a slower cadence, at least in the short term. It may well have been that there was a ton of bloat relative to the game's profit.

If they are laying off 200 people at ZOS (did I read half?), that means total headcount was/is 400-500 people, and I don't see that as sustainable on a project of this maturity. I would guess a team of 50 people could sucessfully maintain the level of effort that has been seen. I'm not even talking about using AI to streamline development. I was/am actually shocked to learn that even after cancellation of Blackbird, there were still 400+ people there.

DoofusMax · July 16

Perhaps not a particularly popular take on this issue, but I'm mostly in agreement with @Gabriel_H that "the game is dying and it's only a matter of time" has been the common thread for the past 12 years. The "weasel words" in there are "only a matter of time" because they allow for infinitely moving goalposts. All live service games are "only a matter of time" before they die. In about 5 billion years, the sun will become a red giant, so "only a matter of time."

The part that puzzles me is the doom-sayers who (1) continue to play a game they sincerely believe is dying and soon-to-disappear-completely or (2) do not play and seem to take some sort of perverse pleasure in dropping their crumbs into various forums. Can't do much about the second group because it's the internet and there be trolls here. But the first could learn from Master Yoda: "Strong with the cognitive dissonance, they are. Play or play not; there is no waffle."

ImmortalCX · July 16

^-

Actually I just checked and apparently prior to the recent layoffs, there were over 300 people, so they are left with around 100, which (apparently) is that size of the studio during their massive Orsinium expansion. They should be able to pull this off. In fact, it begs the question, with an identical size as a decade ago, why wouldn't they be able to produce large yearly expansions?

If they become lean and efficient, the game could continue unscathed.

AScarlato · July 16

DoofusMax wrote: »

Perhaps not a particularly popular take on this issue, but I'm mostly in agreement with @Gabriel_H that "the game is dying and it's only a matter of time" has been the common thread for the past 12 years. The "weasel words" in there are "only a matter of time" because they allow for infinitely moving goalposts. All live service games are "only a matter of time" before they die. In about 5 billion years, the sun will become a red giant, so "only a matter of time."

The part that puzzles me is the doom-sayers who (1) continue to play a game they sincerely believe is dying and soon-to-disappear-completely or (2) do not play and seem to take some sort of perverse pleasure in dropping their crumbs into various forums. Can't do much about the second group because it's the internet and there be trolls here. But the first could learn from Master Yoda: "Strong with the cognitive dissonance, they are. Play or play not; there is no waffle."

There are a lot of people that are just skeptical but invested enough in the game to want to see how things play out. Being skeptical over bad news after bad news, with little to no information released to assuage fears or even a new roadmap, just makes some people a bit more realistic in their contemplation of the game's current state and future.

I've said across multiple threads that the ball is in their court to start countering these feelings. They haven't been able to yet, which is understandable. They are likely still taking inventory and as Kevin said some of this news is being told to them at the same time it's released to the public.

It's fine to want to assume everything is fine and the game will be better than ever after all of this, but assuming that much of the senior talent that even made Summerset being let go brings hope for the future just because the size of the team is now back at that level seems odd to me. And that's probably the strongest argument I've seen from the positive crowd thus far.

ketsparrowhawk · July 16

ImmortalCX wrote: »

^-

Actually I just checked and apparently prior to the recent layoffs, there were over 300 people, so they are left with around 100, which (apparently) is that size of the studio during their massive Orsinium expansion. They should be able to pull this off. In fact, it begs the question, with an identical size as a decade ago, why wouldn't they be able to produce large yearly expansions?

If they become lean and efficient, the game could continue unscathed.

Where do you get your numbers? All I've been able to find is that they reportedly had 250 workers in 2012. In 2018 they hired ~300 more for project blackbird. 67 laid off last year = 483 before the 2026 layoffs. If these are accurate then there should be ample headcount, but ofc that doesn't account for the experience and expertise that is now missing from the studio.

Ratzkifal · July 16

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

CptTekashi wrote: »

Can we please get an update on what’s going on as it seems like the studio is crumbling to the ground before our very eyes @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Kevin

Can we stop with this doomer nonsense?

Why break a 12-year trend?!

12 years....2026. What is the year 2026 minus 12 years...ohh that is right the year 2014 when ESO launched as a dismal failure and had to have a complete rewrite for Tamriel One to survive.

Seems that anyone saying the game had serious issues "doom" posting back then was 100% on point.

@Pixiepumpkin Tamriel Unlimited. The update that saved ESO from its launch as an unsustainable subscription based MMO was called Tamriel Unlimited and added the justice system. One Tamriel was a year later, after we had the release of Imperial City, Orsinium, Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood.

The number of people who confuse Tamriel Unlimited with One Tamriel is too damn high!