Will the Recent ZOS Layoffs Effect the ESO Class Refresh Schedule?

SolarRune · July 8

Class refresh needs to be top of the list for things to do, even at the cost of other stuff, the game feels half baked in its current state.

Heronisan · July 8

Having reworks of all classes should be top priority.

Right now, this game is a unfinished product, with only 2 reworks done, if the class reworks were to be stopped, so will i.

I play templar, which needs this rework so bad it's not even funny, i also expect to play a finished product, not a beta.

Leaving the game in this current state would be the absolute worst that could happen.

Luneca · July 8

Considering they've taken this long to do even one additional class, what do you think?

LadyGP · July 8

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

CAB_Life wrote: »

It should be their sole priority. Get it all out and done in 6 months then move back to content. The combat system is literally unfinished atm. That’s inexcusable for a decade-year old game facing additional market and internal pressures and will lead to more failures and cuts because it will impact profitability. I’m sure it already has. The aforementioned is unpleasant to even say, but it’s the reality of the situation.

I wonder how much money they've spent working on the class rework when they could have saved themselves a pile of money just admitting subclassing was a mistake and undoing it...

Sadly true. One thing I think ESO has not been very good at is making the right decisions and holding fast. Instead they have tried for so long to ride this balance between making everyone happy.. which makes pretty much no one happy.

reazea · July 8

JohnRingo wrote: »

This is one of the things that occurred to me today. Reports from affected employees suggest that a significant number of developers involved with content, dungeons, events, and related work were impacted, although the full scope of the restructuring has not been officially detailed.

DK and WW have already received their updates, but remaining classes are still waiting.

Will the class refresh schedule continue largely as planned, be delayed, or be scaled back in scope? Is this the type of work that was likely already far enough along to survive the restructuring, or should players expect priorities to shift toward maintenance and bug fixing instead?

Obviously, if this project goes unfinished or is heavily delayed, there will be serious balance repercussions.

How could it not?

baratron · July 11

Brian Wheeler (Project Design Director for Combat & PvP) is very much still employed, along with the majority of his team. I'm pretty certain that he's hard at work on the Roadmap this weekend, along with Nick (Game Director) and Susan (Executive Producer) - figuring out updated dates when the other class Combat Refreshes will be ready.

I feel that one of the key issues now isn't so much balancing the classes, but putting in updated animations. I know a lot of the Art team were made redundant, but I'm not sure if Animations is part of Art or a separate team entirely. I'm sure someone from ZOS will be able to clarify. Actually, I'll ask Jason Barnes when I see him later (at the ESO Tavern event in Germany).

tomofhyrule · July 11

baratron wrote: »

Brian Wheeler (Project Design Director for Combat & PvP) is very much still employed, along with the majority of his team. I'm pretty certain that he's hard at work on the Roadmap this weekend, along with Nick (Game Director) and Susan (Executive Producer) - figuring out updated dates when the other class Combat Refreshes will be ready.

I feel that one of the key issues now isn't so much balancing the classes, but putting in updated animations. I know a lot of the Art team were made redundant, but I'm not sure if Animations is part of Art or a separate team entirely. I'm sure someone from ZOS will be able to clarify. Actually, I'll ask Jason Barnes when I see him later (at the ESO Tavern event in Germany).

I just hope he gets the memo that we as players very much enjoyed the increased communication from the devs. And unfortunately, it seemed like Combat was the only team that was still in the “turtle up and say nothing until it’s too late to incorporate feedback” mode.

A lot of endgamers are out for blood after how the feedback for combat has been treated and how the communication from that team has been. Combat is make-or-break now more so than ever, and the old style ‘communication’ of “we’re not saying anything ever tee hee!” is completely unacceptable now.

ZOS_Kevin · July 11

There will be

SolarRune wrote: »

Class refresh needs to be top of the list for things to do, even at the cost of other stuff, the game feels half baked in its current state.

We plan to continue class refresh work. We are working on adjusting schedules, but that work will continue. Nick, Susan, and company are working on a new roadmap and we'll share that in a few weeks.

ketsparrowhawk · July 11

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

There will be

SolarRune wrote: »

Class refresh needs to be top of the list for things to do, even at the cost of other stuff, the game feels half baked in its current state.

We plan to continue class refresh work. We are working on adjusting schedules, but that work will continue. Nick, Susan, and company are working on a new roadmap and we'll share that in a few weeks.

".. in a few weeks" :'(

rothan117 · July 11

Yeah, weeks is not a good sign at all. That would indicate to me that impact is going to be huge and not easily compensated for.

clawd_vanhop · July 11

rothan117 wrote: »

Yeah, weeks is not a good sign at all. That would indicate to me that impact is going to be huge and not easily compensated for.

Thats kind of a wild take. we already know that they've lost staff. we also know they are getting more staff from obsidian and another entity can't remember the name. there are meetings. more meetings and more meetings than that where they have to decide the direction they're going in.

its not a bad sign and its not a good sign. its just the way business goes. we can't expect them to have a new shiny roadmap tomorrow after a massive restructure.

Kevin has already said the studio isn't dead. and they're bringing us new content. isn't that the good news we wanted to hear after all of this?

ketsparrowhawk · July 11

rothan117 wrote: »

Yeah, weeks is not a good sign at all. That would indicate to me that impact is going to be huge and not easily compensated for.

I do believe they will land on their feet. We have official confirmation that they have the same headcount now as they had during the Summerset expansion. It's just a matter of figuring out the logistics and people learning their new roles. I think they're just not willing to communicate until they have a very clear and concrete path ahead. Tbh despite the terrible news I think there is some cause for optimism. New management seems to have their head on straight and I sense a shift in internal culture for the better. I'm sure the next year will be fairly sparse while they find their bearings but I can envision a very good 2028 and beyond, especially with TES VI hype on the horizon.

Luneca · July 11

clawd_vanhop wrote: »

rothan117 wrote: »

Yeah, weeks is not a good sign at all. That would indicate to me that impact is going to be huge and not easily compensated for.

Thats kind of a wild take. we already know that they've lost staff. we also know they are getting more staff from obsidian and another entity can't remember the name. there are meetings. more meetings and more meetings than that where they have to decide the direction they're going in.

its not a bad sign and its not a good sign. its just the way business goes. we can't expect them to have a new shiny roadmap tomorrow after a massive restructure.

Kevin has already said the studio isn't dead. and they're bringing us new content. isn't that the good news we wanted to hear after all of this?

I think a wilder take is for them to not prioritize the reworks in the first place. Combat is one of the biggest complaints about this game, and balance is very bad. If they won't rework the classes, at least look at adding parity to classes with scribed skills so the classes that are furthest out (which happen to be the worst in PvP) can have something other than nothing.

Current state of the game is not really acceptable versus had they just never released a rework at all. And that has, is, and will harm the game's population.

clawd_vanhop · July 11

Luneca wrote: »

clawd_vanhop wrote: »

rothan117 wrote: »

Yeah, weeks is not a good sign at all. That would indicate to me that impact is going to be huge and not easily compensated for.

Thats kind of a wild take. we already know that they've lost staff. we also know they are getting more staff from obsidian and another entity can't remember the name. there are meetings. more meetings and more meetings than that where they have to decide the direction they're going in.

its not a bad sign and its not a good sign. its just the way business goes. we can't expect them to have a new shiny roadmap tomorrow after a massive restructure.

Kevin has already said the studio isn't dead. and they're bringing us new content. isn't that the good news we wanted to hear after all of this?

I think a wilder take is for them to not prioritize the reworks in the first place. Combat is one of the biggest complaints about this game, and balance is very bad. If they won't rework the classes, at least look at adding parity to classes with scribed skills so the classes that are furthest out (which happen to be the worst in PvP) can have something other than nothing.

Current state of the game is not really acceptable versus had they just never released a rework at all. And that has, is, and will harm the game's population.

everyone has an opinion. if you're not working for them and have an insight into everything going on though its outspoken opinion. I personally don't care about the reworks. most of the people I know aren't caring either. housing community for the win. for my wild take that is certainly my baseless opinion.

they'd even retain more people if they cleaned up housing. better search features, putting housing tables into one combined housing bench. more storage space I'd deffo buy another housing storage box of 500. cleaning up their precision tools, (why does it randomly snap to only facing north or your wall goes cattywumpus instead of straight?)

the retention WOULD DEFFO BE HIGHER IF THEY DID THIS.

i mean trials and what not who cares. its all about housing as end game.

karthrag_inak · July 11

They lost half their staff. What do people expect? They need to determine who best to adopt the orphaned projects and systems, along with continuing to do the full time jobs they already had and were doing. You all do know all the folks who remain already had full time jobs they had to work at, yes?

"A few weeks is a bad sign" sheesh. It took longer than a few weeks to determine the plan to start with, when they were fully staffed.

AlienatedGoat · July 11

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

I'm sure the next year will be fairly sparse while they find their bearings but I can envision a very good 2028 and beyond, especially with TES VI hype on the horizon.

This is what we said a year ago in 2025 when MS cancelled Blackbird and laid off half the studio. We thought we'd bear through the dry spell in 2025 and share in the promised land of 2026. And for a while this year it did genuinely feel like ESO was undergoing a sort of renaissance. The future was fresh and bright and people were getting excited about the game again. But that feeling evaporated overnight with this new round of layoffs, halving the studio all over again. And now we've got the further uncertainty of knowing that these layoffs by Xbox were only half of the planned total, with 1600 more to come later in the year. So there is a proverbial sword hanging in the air.

I don't doubt that ZOS can find their footing again. They've succeeded in finding new direction several times before. But I have to wonder: Where does this end? If the studio can be minced up on a regular basis with no warning, what chance does ZOS have to make long term plans for success?

ketsparrowhawk · July 11

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

I'm sure the next year will be fairly sparse while they find their bearings but I can envision a very good 2028 and beyond, especially with TES VI hype on the horizon.

This is what we said a year ago in 2025 when MS cancelled Blackbird and laid off half the studio. We thought we'd bear through the dry spell in 2025 and share in the promised land of 2026. And for a while this year it did genuinely feel like ESO was undergoing a sort of renaissance. The future was fresh and bright and people were getting excited about the game again. But that feeling evaporated overnight with this new round of layoffs, halving the studio all over again. And now we've got the further uncertainty of knowing that these layoffs by Xbox were only half of the planned total, with 1600 more to come later in the year. So there is a proverbial sword hanging in the air.

I don't doubt that ZOS can find their footing again. They've succeeded in finding new direction several times before. But I have to wonder: Where does this end? If the studio can be minced up on a regular basis with no warning, what chance does ZOS have to make long term plans for success?

When Blackbird was shut down ESO's staff doubled in size. "Halving the studio" just put them back at their normal headcount.

A lot of my optimism comes from having faith in the new leadership based on the last 6 months. Imo the quality of content has been in steady decline since Summerset, and one must assume that at least some of those laid off were responsible for said decline. So while it is concerning that so many long-timers are now gone, I can see opportunities for fresh ideas to take root and flourish in their absence.

Also, from another comment I made in another thread: XBOX acquired a ton of studios during the pandemic and made the unusual decision of *not* restructuring/absorbing those studios into the company. If these layoffs had happened in 2021 it would have been unfortunate but expected since that's what happens after an acquisition. At some point the parent company was bound to wonder why the gaming division needs 20 HR departments, etc.

And I have nothing to back this up but my hunch is that ZOS will be safe from the next round of layoffs. My understanding is that Activision/Blizzard was pretty much untouched by this round, so that's where I'd be looking for the bulk of the next round to be focused (currently 8-10k employees at Activision/Blizzard).

ESO_Nightingale · July 12

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

rothan117 wrote: »

Yeah, weeks is not a good sign at all. That would indicate to me that impact is going to be huge and not easily compensated for.

I do believe they will land on their feet. We have official confirmation that they have the same headcount now as they had during the Summerset expansion. It's just a matter of figuring out the logistics and people learning their new roles. I think they're just not willing to communicate until they have a very clear and concrete path ahead. Tbh despite the terrible news I think there is some cause for optimism. New management seems to have their head on straight and I sense a shift in internal culture for the better. I'm sure the next year will be fairly sparse while they find their bearings but I can envision a very good 2028 and beyond, especially with TES VI hype on the horizon.

I really hope so.

Gabriel_H · July 12

rothan117 wrote: »

Yeah, weeks is not a good sign at all. That would indicate to me that impact is going to be huge and not easily compensated for.

Weeks means they aren't rushing decisions. They have a lot to go through in terms of what is and isn't completed, what was in the workflow, what outsourcing they now have access too.

Gabriel_H · July 12

Luneca wrote: »

clawd_vanhop wrote: »

rothan117 wrote: »

Yeah, weeks is not a good sign at all. That would indicate to me that impact is going to be huge and not easily compensated for.

Thats kind of a wild take. we already know that they've lost staff. we also know they are getting more staff from obsidian and another entity can't remember the name. there are meetings. more meetings and more meetings than that where they have to decide the direction they're going in.

its not a bad sign and its not a good sign. its just the way business goes. we can't expect them to have a new shiny roadmap tomorrow after a massive restructure.

Kevin has already said the studio isn't dead. and they're bringing us new content. isn't that the good news we wanted to hear after all of this?

I think a wilder take is for them to not prioritize the reworks in the first place. Combat is one of the biggest complaints about this game, and balance is very bad. If they won't rework the classes, at least look at adding parity to classes with scribed skills so the classes that are furthest out (which happen to be the worst in PvP) can have something other than nothing.

Current state of the game is not really acceptable versus had they just never released a rework at all. And that has, is, and will harm the game's population.

Combat depends on class. Reworking the classes to bring a higher level of parity between them means combat balancing is easier.

Pixiepumpkin · July 12

Gabriel_H wrote: »

rothan117 wrote: »

Yeah, weeks is not a good sign at all. That would indicate to me that impact is going to be huge and not easily compensated for.

Weeks means they aren't rushing decisions. They have a lot to go through in terms of what is and isn't completed, what was in the workflow, what outsourcing they now have access too.

But why do they neven need to revisit the road map? They have the same amount of people that worked on the game for Summerset and Wrothgar, both acclaimed Chapters.

The stuff that is on the roadmap seems legit, like they were not bad decisions based on manager bloat. Class reworks are required at this point.

So why do they need to revisit the roadmap. Based on what you say, there should be zero reason the game does not continue on full steam ahead (which has not been the case for 2 years now).

The maths ain't mathing.

React · July 12

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

There will be

SolarRune wrote: »

Class refresh needs to be top of the list for things to do, even at the cost of other stuff, the game feels half baked in its current state.

We plan to continue class refresh work. We are working on adjusting schedules, but that work will continue. Nick, Susan, and company are working on a new roadmap and we'll share that in a few weeks.

Best of luck, can't imagine how difficult it must be restructuring and trying to plan out the new roadmap at the same time.

Just want to second what the OP said; hope to see the reworks as a priority. The game's balance is definitely in a tough place right now with DK and WW being so far ahead of everything.

SilverBride · July 12

I don't know why class refreshes even matter any more. We don't need it to do tasks.

tomofhyrule · July 12

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't know why class refreshes even matter any more. We don't need it to do tasks.

But for anyone who does engage in any endgame content (e.g. endgame PvE or any PvP at all), Class Balance is the most important thing. Like more important than new zones or new quests.

This all goes right back into the "what is a problem unless you're into playing casually or solo" box.

Radiate77 · July 12

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't know why class refreshes even matter any more. We don't need it to do tasks.

Right. Why even have weapons when we can just use Shadowy Disguise to pick flowers, they should probably get rid of those too.

Arunei · July 12

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

rothan117 wrote: »

Yeah, weeks is not a good sign at all. That would indicate to me that impact is going to be huge and not easily compensated for.

Weeks means they aren't rushing decisions. They have a lot to go through in terms of what is and isn't completed, what was in the workflow, what outsourcing they now have access too.

But why do they neven need to revisit the road map? They have the same amount of people that worked on the game for Summerset and Wrothgar, both acclaimed Chapters.

The stuff that is on the roadmap seems legit, like they were not bad decisions based on manager bloat. Class reworks are required at this point.

So why do they need to revisit the roadmap. Based on what you say, there should be zero reason the game does not continue on full steam ahead (which has not been the case for 2 years now).

The maths ain't mathing.

Reposting this here from the stickied thread for visibility:

Because being adequately staffed does not in any way imply they won't need to account for having fewer people. A warehouse that has 500 employees might only have each one doing 1 task a day, even though everyone could comfortably do 5. If 200 of those employees are let off, the remaining 300 can easily handle the work being spread to them, but they'll still need to adjust to everyone having more work even if it's not work that's going to overwork anyone.

We don't know what all the devs have in active development and what all they've had planned to get started on. That work can easily be done by the remaining team because they've shown they can pump out quality stuff with a team this size, but they still need time to work out adjusted time-frames to take into account fewer people doing more work. They need to look at all they've got going on and everything they wanted to start on and come up with a realistic expectation of how long stuff will take in the short-term while they adjust to the new team size.

Pixiepumpkin · July 12

Arunei wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

rothan117 wrote: »

Yeah, weeks is not a good sign at all. That would indicate to me that impact is going to be huge and not easily compensated for.

Weeks means they aren't rushing decisions. They have a lot to go through in terms of what is and isn't completed, what was in the workflow, what outsourcing they now have access too.

But why do they neven need to revisit the road map? They have the same amount of people that worked on the game for Summerset and Wrothgar, both acclaimed Chapters.

The stuff that is on the roadmap seems legit, like they were not bad decisions based on manager bloat. Class reworks are required at this point.

So why do they need to revisit the roadmap. Based on what you say, there should be zero reason the game does not continue on full steam ahead (which has not been the case for 2 years now).

The maths ain't mathing.

Reposting this here from the stickied thread for visibility:

Because being adequately staffed does not in any way imply they won't need to account for having fewer people. A warehouse that has 500 employees might only have each one doing 1 task a day, even though everyone could comfortably do 5. If 200 of those employees are let off, the remaining 300 can easily handle the work being spread to them, but they'll still need to adjust to everyone having more work even if it's not work that's going to overwork anyone.

We don't know what all the devs have in active development and what all they've had planned to get started on. That work can easily be done by the remaining team because they've shown they can pump out quality stuff with a team this size, but they still need time to work out adjusted time-frames to take into account fewer people doing more work. They need to look at all they've got going on and everything they wanted to start on and come up with a realistic expectation of how long stuff will take in the short-term while they adjust to the new team size.

But this makes no sense.

You argue that there are too many cooks in the kitchen and that is why the game has deteriorated over the past two years. You argue that less people (now at the levels of Summerset/Orsinium) will easily be able to make MORE content than has been produced.

If thats true (which its not, there are other factors we can not discuss here) then there would be no reason to change the roadmap.

The roadmap does not need to change, people just need to be moved around internally to fulfill the roadmap. All of that can take place behind the scenes.

I'd argue, that the reason for the roadmap change is becasue the lower body count now is going to mean slower roll out of content and reprioritization of that slower rolled out content.

Gabriel_H · July 13

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

rothan117 wrote: »

Yeah, weeks is not a good sign at all. That would indicate to me that impact is going to be huge and not easily compensated for.

Weeks means they aren't rushing decisions. They have a lot to go through in terms of what is and isn't completed, what was in the workflow, what outsourcing they now have access too.

But why do they neven need to revisit the road map? They have the same amount of people that worked on the game for Summerset and Wrothgar, both acclaimed Chapters.

Because they have less people than they did when the released the roadmap. Unless everyone who was laid off was standing around doing nothing there is going to be an impact on when things are completed.

Imperial_Archmage · July 13

Gabriel_H wrote: »

rothan117 wrote: »

Yeah, weeks is not a good sign at all. That would indicate to me that impact is going to be huge and not easily compensated for.

Weeks means they aren't rushing decisions. They have a lot to go through in terms of what is and isn't completed, what was in the workflow, what outsourcing they now have access too.

There is no room or time for lengthy decision making. Unless everything else is dropped and their singular focus becomes the class refresh the game is doomed. It's really that simple. If anything, the disaster of the mass firings should've crystalized the path ahead for them. The fact that this harsh reality hasn't sunk in yet and they think they have "weeks" on their hands before annoucing a decision should be alarming to everyone.

SilverBride · July 13

tomofhyrule wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't know why class refreshes even matter any more. We don't need it to do tasks.

But for anyone who does engage in any endgame content (e.g. endgame PvE or any PvP at all), Class Balance is the most important thing. Like more important than new zones or new quests.

This all goes right back into the "what is a problem unless you're into playing casually or solo" box.

Radiate77 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't know why class refreshes even matter any more. We don't need it to do tasks.

Right. Why even have weapons when we can just use Shadowy Disguise to pick flowers, they should probably get rid of those too.

I didn't mean it literally. I was making a statement about how we get new ways to do tasks now instead of chapters and new dungeons and trials.