hiyde wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Conflating this with last years layoffs is also misleading.

Come on now, I'm not conflating or misleading anyone.

According to the Maryland WARN government website:
ZOS laid of 62 people last year.
ZOS laid off 213 people this year.
In both cases, these layoffs were categorized as "Mass Layoff - No Recall"

This is on top of the large, seperate layoffs at Parent company Zenimax Media.

I've made no claims on how many members of the "ESO" team were lost because I don't know and none of us do.

And sure, a whole lot of things "might" be true and maybe we'll find out more as time goes by.

But the things I do know for sure, setting aside social posts from current or former employees and all the speculation from the rest of us:

- They just laid off 213 people and classified it "Mass Layoff - No Recall"
- It was impactful enough for them to invalidate the roadmap and say they'll publish a corrected version once they figure out what they are still capable of doing / how long it will now take.

I'm not shrieking ESO IS DEAD nor am I claiming "everything is fine".

*clearly* these cuts have dramatically affected at the very least, the timeline of their ability to develop for this game. That's not misleading anyone in any way. (though there is plenty of that going on around here).

It is misleading. Last years layoffs were because Project Blackbird got shuttered. This years layoffs are a restructure across multiple divisions. Those are very different reasons.

And again, they didn't just layoff 213. They could have, or they could have or they could have laid off some, while reducing work time at the site as I explained above. None of us know for sure, but stating something as a fact while ignoring part of the context is the very definition of misleading.

"*clearly* these cuts have dramatically affected at the very least, the timeline of their ability to develop for this game. That's not misleading anyone in any way. (though there is plenty of that going on around here)."

To be sure there is an impact, and they need to reassess the roadmap, but that doesn't necessarily mean the roadmap will change, or that any change will push things out - it could bring things forward. It depends entirely on what Microsoft do with the restructure.

They closed less known game studios in the Bethesda family. Are all the employees gone or will some be moved? Will there be a spin-off company where all the animators and VFX people work? Will the coding team be consolidated? I could list a hundred questions that no one outside of the restructuring team can answer at this time.

We do not have enough information and neither do ZOS yet to know what this impact will be. Given how development timelines work, a lot, if not all, of the design work will have been done. So anything for this year will not likely suffer with the loss of the lead designer, but the impact may be felt next year. Only time will tell for certain, but at the moment everything is just wild speculation.

hiyde wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

It is misleading. Last years layoffs were because Project Blackbird got shuttered. This years layoffs are a restructure across multiple divisions. Those are very different reasons.

And again, they didn't just layoff 213. They could have, or they could have or they could have laid off some, while reducing work time at the site as I explained above. None of us know for sure, but stating something as a fact while ignoring part of the context is the very definition of misleading.

Fact:
ZOS notified the State of Maryland via the WARN act that they laid off 61 people last year and 213 this year and classified them as "Mass Layoff - No Recall"

Fact:
The first communication from the team was that the roadmap is pulled and they'll republish it once they determine what they are capable of.

A whole lot of things "might" be true. But I haven't mislead anyone and I'd really appreciate it if you'd stop making those accusations. Feel free to disagree all you want. You can do that without falsely categorizing my posts as misleading.

It is painfully obvious that this week's cuts are having a detrimental impact to the *current* plans for the game.

I didn't opine on what it meant for the long term future of this game. I stated verifiable facts. Something I think it would be good for all of us to stick to when we're making claims.

If you'd like me to stop saying misleading then stop doing it.

Fact:
ZOS notified the State of Maryland via the WARN act that they laid off 61 people last year and 213 this year and classified them as "Mass Layoff - No Recall" - MISSES CONTEXT

Context: 213 laid off or had their hours of work reduced at the site

hiyde wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

If you'd like me to stop saying misleading then stop doing it.

Fact:
ZOS notified the State of Maryland via the WARN act that they laid off 61 people last year and 213 this year and classified them as "Mass Layoff - No Recall" - MISSES CONTEXT

Context: 213 laid off or had their hours of work reduced at the site

Cool, can you provide a source to any info you have on any of these layoffs being reductions in hours?

And let's say it was...and by definition it must be at least 50% of hours.

We know 61 people were terminated. That leaves 152 status unknown.
Of those 152, anyone with hours reductions had them reduced by a minimum of half.
So even in your scenario, at the very best, that's basically another 71 people lost + 61 we know were termainations this week = a reduction in man hours of at least the equivalent of 132 people.

And we think this is going to lead to an expanded, more feature-filled roadmap?

My point is that this is a serious hit. Whether they lost 8,400 or (a bare minimum of) 5,400 hours a week of manpower doesn't change that.

Can you point to a source saying they are not? If not, then claiming or presenting them all as job losses is ... drumroll ... misleading.

You are looking at this in a vacuum and it very much is not one. I do not know what Microsoft have planned. It may lead to a roadmap that is pushed out or it may lead to an unchanged one, or things are pulled forward.

Let me put it like this: Did ZOS need a animator working 40 hours a week every week at the site? Or do they only need an animator working 20 hours a week at the site and because Microsoft just closed other places, does the projects that still exist need an animator working 20 hours at that site? That would classify the employee under the WARN notice while also having zero impact on development. Or how about do Microsoft need lets say 50 QA testers across all gaming studios or do they only need 25 in total?

Now is that optimistic, absolutely. Is it also possible, yes. Until we have more information we just don't know.

Yep, it sure does feel different.

cyberjanet wrote: »

Yep, it sure does feel different.

This image, i have so many questions lmao

Zos foundation is cracked in the bottom, but its together with the executive suit, is this a plot twist?

There is a random signature from an artist in the bottom (LOL)

Random hamster in the back wearing a cape (Hint to new cape visuals? New crown store item??)

Why is barnaby holding a pick axe and not a hammer???

I am confused.

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

cyberjanet wrote: »

Yep, it sure does feel different.

This image, i have so many questions lmao

Zos foundation is cracked in the bottom, but its together with the executive suit, is this a plot twist?

There is a random signature from an artist in the bottom (LOL)

Random hamster in the back wearing a cape (Hint to new cape visuals? New crown store item??)

Why is barnaby holding a pick axe and not a hammer???

I am confused.

Is just ai slop, nothing to see here

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

cyberjanet wrote: »

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

I am confused.

Yep, the cartoon is as confusing as Microsoft laying off 4800 jobs and getting rid of Gina. Nothing makes sense any more.

Okay...but why Beavers?

Are those beaver? The tails look wrong. I assume they are gerbils or some other rodent.

Guinea Pigs ya goofs!