If you care about eso and zos dont make a bad situation worse

Lagzee · July 10

At least until we know more. I understand the dooming and negative feelings, of course. What I dont understand is the people who claim to love eso, and zos, who are saying they are going to unsubscribe or uninstall. As far as we know currently zos is going to keep going forward with eso, so by all means if you want to fast track the downfall of eso, and more cuts from Microsoft, then keep this mindset. But if you actually care about zos/eso then the answer is to keep supporting the game the same way you have been.

If you want to boycott something then boycott Microsoft in other ways, with other products. But the reality is Microsoft owns many games/studios that many of us love and dont want to see disappear. For me thats mostly zenimax/betheseda/blizzard related. So its a strange position to be in, especially when you really dislike what they are doing.

I also think its just too soon to tell what the impact will be at zos. There are no guarantees right now. No guarantee of maintenance mode, or shutdown, or that there is only a skeleton crew left. And personally i think those things are very unlikely. If you want to know what maintenance mode looks like, or what a skeleton crew looks like, then look to new world. The lights are currently kept on by like 1-3 people. And the game is still going even now. It does not look like dozens, or hundreds, of people still actively working at a studio developing a game.

Also, if the original post that blew up is to be believed then half of the people, that were actively working on content, were let go. Not half of the total team. Yes, seeing names like rich, gina, and fin, on that list is shocking and sad. Yes, seeing 200 people get laid off is shocking and sad. But we dont know where most these positions came from, aside from the list of like 60 names here on the forums, or what kind of impact they will have on things. We just dont know right now. So personally i am going to withhold judgement until i see what the future looks like, such as any changes to the roadmap, and see what zos will eventually say about this. And hopefully people that actually love eso will do the same.

I found this post from someone at zos, dont know much about it but ill leave it here as well. GG

Eldovar · July 10

I think a lot of people are now waiting to see what the roadmap is. Because a lot of hardcore fans on the forums say 'we don't need new content, there is already enough content in the game'. The reality is that a lot of players actually do care about content additions.

I also played new world and you can clearly see when they announced that no new content would be added to the game and just bug fix patches and balance patches. The end date wasn't even announced back then. Most people just leave to other games and that is a hard fact. Especially when other games like Guild Wars 3 and other projects are coming. So the new roadmap will probably a make or break it moment for many players.

As for giving ZOS money, I haven't spend anything on the game since my pre-order for the 2025 content pass. For people that are into zones/dungeons with new assets/music/stories there isn't anything to spend on and I doubt there will be in the future. So they miss out on a whole segment of players funding the game.

Usureki · July 10

I agree, these are my thoughts exactly (link).

PoveusRonin · July 10

They already got rid of expansions (whatever they call them) and the last few updates have been very lacking in substance. Just money grabs in the form of the battlepass. They are also trying to push everything into grouping, look at the recent zenithar event having group almost everything to get rewards. With cuts to their staff, they aren't going to back track and start putting out more content, they are going to push out cash grab content.

While it is very bad for the people who got laid off, pumping money at something a person is not happy with hoping it will get better when it has already started a decline is crazy. Asking people to keep throwing money at the problem when this is just a final nail for some is just a waste of time for many.

If people are unhappy with the direction the game has been going, with such huge staff cuts, it's not going to get better so if they want to vote with their wallet, let them.

Soarora · July 10

Whilst the employee’s message is powerful and certainly helped me with things, I’m not sure it was supposed to be leaked. Of course, the damage is done now, but I’m hoping no harm comes to him from this.

Muizer · July 10

Soarora wrote: »

Whilst the employee’s message is powerful and certainly helped me with things, I’m not sure it was supposed to be leaked.

Ha, indeed. The words "accelerate" before "our demise" probably isn't the best choice of words

CalamityCat · July 10

I understand the sentiment of wanting to support the ESO team, but we're expecting an update from them about their future plans, so let's try not to guilt trip players into renewing until then. Let people see what the plans are, so they can make an informed decision.

Cancelling the renewal of an active sub now doesn't make any difference to the income ZOS get from it. They're paid in advance, so players aren't taking any money back from MS or ZOS. All they're doing is preventing the sub from renewing automatically.

The only reduction in sub income is going to be from the subs that just ended and didn't get renewed. I doubt that's a massive amount of customers. Some will likely be happier renewing when we have an updated plan for what's happening with ESO. But we should let people decide what they're comfortable spending, instead of judging those who are stepping back.

Eldovar · July 10

Muizer wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Whilst the employee’s message is powerful and certainly helped me with things, I’m not sure it was supposed to be leaked.

Ha, indeed. The words "accelerate" before "our demise" probably isn't the best choice of words

But it signifies how dire the situation actually is if this coming from people actually working on the game.

Malprave · July 10

I still enjoy the game and am continuing to sub. Although I have been critical of some content(as recently as five minutes ago), on the whole I still enjoy the game greatly.

Some will take what has happened as a cue to renew their attacks against ESO. If you still enjoy the game, don't let these attacks dissuade you from continuing to do so. Support the game financially to the extent that you are able and hope for the best.

Sly80 · July 10

If I'm going to unsubscribe from anything, it will be my MS Office Suite.

AvalonRanger · July 10

"If you care about eso and zos don't make a bad situation worse Bookmark"

So, please fix broken thieves guild new quest bug immediately.

FolksySpade · July 10

Muizer wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Whilst the employee’s message is powerful and certainly helped me with things, I’m not sure it was supposed to be leaked.

Ha, indeed. The words "accelerate" before "our demise" probably isn't the best choice of words

that part shocked me the most too. Whether it was intentional or not they said the quiet part out loud.

Personofsecrets · July 10

As far as supporting the game goes, it currently has what seems like the worst balancing that it has ever had. I'm all for paying for the game, but there are very basic things not being done and many indignities that players deal with on a day to day basis. There are many issues that are unforced errors which a reasonable person shouldn't necessarily be okay with paying for. This is coming from someone who has paid good money for the game and even suggested additional monetization avenues in the past.

Kilthor69 · July 10

Class balancing is needed but they should still put out new areas to explore. These small little dribbles of content are not going to keep people around. PVP'ers will do what they do best and that is complain just about everything.

ESO is more of a PVE game and without new areas and new storylines there is really no reason to sub or if you have cancelled re-sub.

Destai · July 10

I can appreciate where that employee's coming from, but I think they need to appreciate it's more than just the current situation. At least for some of us, it's the aggregation of things over the years, that make it feel like the investment isn't well placed. And seeing the layoffs brings the point home for me. Why? Because it signals the business also feels that way.

Fundamentally, ZOS and their leadership had years to open communication, add QoL, add rewarding gameplay. It wasn't until things were absolutely sinking they decided to move on things. We're still getting timed deals, timed content, things are launching with issues reported on PTS. We're still getting confusing systems like Tomes. We're still dealing with combat balance issues and controversial decision making. There are improvements but they're not on the fundamental things that truly need it.

Personally, I don't think it's fair to keep chucking money into a game in hopes it'll improve at a pace greater than they're willing or able to do.

TLDR: They've made a lot of mistakes over the years and keep releasing filler content. The game doesn't feel like a good investment because of that, and after layoffs, I don't think it'll get better.

hiyde · July 10

No one should be goaded or guilted into taking action one way or the other.

If you are still enjoying this game and want to keep supporting it, that's a valid choice for *you*.
If you are unhappy with what happened this week and don't want to spend any further money, that's a valid choice for *you*.

AScarlato · July 10

I think we should all make decisions with our entertainment budget as we feel comfortable, as Kevin stated.

If some want to spend specifically to show support to the game, that's fine.

If others want to take a more cautious approach, that is fine too. So far only bad news was slowly revealed, and now we are waiting on some good/hopeful news and a roadmap.

Personally I'm continuing to make decisions as I always have, spending when my engagement is high or they release a cosmetic I really want.

Vonnegut2506 · July 10

The way some of you are doing these threads you should probably get Sarah Mclachlan to sing a song while you show pictures of ZOS developers. You could even mention that for only $14.99 a month we can save so many of them.

Destai · July 10

hiyde wrote: »

No one should be goaded or guilted into taking action one way or the other.

If you are still enjoying this game and want to keep supporting it, that's a valid choice for *you*.
If you are unhappy with what happened this week and don't want to spend any further money, that's a valid choice for *you*.

Yeah, exactly. If the game still makes you happy, spend away. If not, that's fine too.

AScarlato wrote: »

Personally I'm continuing to make decisions as I always have, spending when my engagement is high or they release a cosmetic I really want.

That's really where I'm at. If Season 2 comes out, and has something I actually want to chase, I'd be open to getting it. Engagement's low, spending's low.

BXR_Lonestar · July 10

As someone who plays a lot of PVP in this game, my main concern is that the layoffs will negatively effect the rollout of the class reworks, which were already going to roll out slowly to begin with, but now, could come at a snail's pace. If that is the case, PVP is going to be stuck in a meta that will grow stale really quickly and put that segment of the game in a bad place - and it is already in the worst place it has been in in quite some time. Not just my sentiment, but a lot of other hardcore PVP players in my guilds feel the same way.

If that ends up coming to fruition, sure, we'll play the PVE content, but it also means that we'll probably dial back our engagement with this game because there is nothing to fill the void when we aren't in the mood to play PVE.

Arizona_Steve · July 10

ESO runs extremely well on Linux. It is possible to support the ZOS devs while moving away from the Microsoft ecosystem.

Ravenshadow6513 · July 10

AvalonRanger wrote: »

"If you care about eso and zos don't make a bad situation worse Bookmark"

So, please fix broken thieves guild new quest bug immediately.

They hotfixed it yesterday and should be working. I logged on after the fix and got right in.

RaikaNA · July 10

Lagzee wrote: »

At least until we know more. I understand the dooming and negative feelings, of course. What I dont understand is the people who claim to love eso, and zos, who are saying they are going to unsubscribe or uninstall. As far as we know currently zos is going to keep going forward with eso, so by all means if you want to fast track the downfall of eso, and more cuts from Microsoft, then keep this mindset. But if you actually care about zos/eso then the answer is to keep supporting the game the same way you have been.

If you want to boycott something then boycott Microsoft in other ways, with other products. But the reality is Microsoft owns many games/studios that many of us love and dont want to see disappear. For me thats mostly zenimax/betheseda/blizzard related. So its a strange position to be in, especially when you really dislike what they are doing.

I also think its just too soon to tell what the impact will be at zos. There are no guarantees right now. No guarantee of maintenance mode, or shutdown, or that there is only a skeleton crew left. And personally i think those things are very unlikely. If you want to know what maintenance mode looks like, or what a skeleton crew looks like, then look to new world. The lights are currently kept on by like 1-3 people. And the game is still going even now. It does not look like dozens, or hundreds, of people still actively working at a studio developing a game.

Also, if the original post that blew up is to be believed then half of the people, that were actively working on content, were let go. Not half of the total team. Yes, seeing names like rich, gina, and fin, on that list is shocking and sad. Yes, seeing 200 people get laid off is shocking and sad. But we dont know where most these positions came from, aside from the list of like 60 names here on the forums, or what kind of impact they will have on things. We just dont know right now. So personally i am going to withhold judgement until i see what the future looks like, such as any changes to the roadmap, and see what zos will eventually say about this. And hopefully people that actually love eso will do the same.

I found this post from someone at zos, dont know much about it but ill leave it here as well. GG

[snip] Why else would they lock the crafting bag under a paid subscription? I must have spent thousands of dollars supporting ZOS over the years, and recently I found myself in a deep financial situation after my father passed away, where I am unable to afford their overpriced ESO+ Subscription, so I had to do the unspeakable and unsubscribe. I did it before all the firings. Since then, I realized that my relationship with the game was nothing but... how can I explain this so that the moderators won't censor me... A paid friend who only treats me well as long as I pay them money. When I did unsubscribe, I was given no option to explain why I was doing it in the first place.
[edited for bashing]

DoofusMax · July 10

RaikaNA wrote: »

[snip]

Name one business (not business employee; business) who cares about you as an individual. Even your health care providers don't much care about you as an individual, although their business is to care about and treat your health. Businesses exist to make a profit for their owners. One hopes that the business is doing what it does because the owners enjoy whatever it is the company does, but even my plumber (who is a personal friend, btw) is in business to make money. We can sit out on the patio, drink beer, and jaw until the cows come home and he's on my "think I'll make an extra loaf" list on baking days, but when he hands me a bill for unclogging my sewer lines, I get charged the same as anyone else because unclogging those lines is his business and I pay that bill because it is his business. If I had an appointment set up with him, then I'll hand him a check and fresh loaf of sourdough, but he always gets the check.
[edited to remove quote]

Gabriel_H · July 10

RaikaNA wrote: »

[snip] Why else would they lock the crafting bag under a paid subscription?

No money = No game

I really couldn't give a rats ... if ZOS care about me. I'm not paying them to care - that's what therapists are for. I'm paying them to provide a product. As long as I am enjoying that product I will continue to pay them. When I stop enjoying it I will stop paying them.
[edited to remove quote]

JustLovely · July 10

Lagzee wrote: »

At least until we know more. I understand the dooming and negative feelings, of course. What I dont understand is the people who claim to love eso, and zos, who are saying they are going to unsubscribe or uninstall. As far as we know currently zos is going to keep going forward with eso, so by all means if you want to fast track the downfall of eso, and more cuts from Microsoft, then keep this mindset. But if you actually care about zos/eso then the answer is to keep supporting the game the same way you have been.

If you want to boycott something then boycott Microsoft in other ways, with other products. But the reality is Microsoft owns many games/studios that many of us love and dont want to see disappear. For me thats mostly zenimax/betheseda/blizzard related. So its a strange position to be in, especially when you really dislike what they are doing.

I also think its just too soon to tell what the impact will be at zos. There are no guarantees right now. No guarantee of maintenance mode, or shutdown, or that there is only a skeleton crew left. And personally i think those things are very unlikely. If you want to know what maintenance mode looks like, or what a skeleton crew looks like, then look to new world. The lights are currently kept on by like 1-3 people. And the game is still going even now. It does not look like dozens, or hundreds, of people still actively working at a studio developing a game.

Also, if the original post that blew up is to be believed then half of the people, that were actively working on content, were let go. Not half of the total team. Yes, seeing names like rich, gina, and fin, on that list is shocking and sad. Yes, seeing 200 people get laid off is shocking and sad. But we dont know where most these positions came from, aside from the list of like 60 names here on the forums, or what kind of impact they will have on things. We just dont know right now. So personally i am going to withhold judgement until i see what the future looks like, such as any changes to the roadmap, and see what zos will eventually say about this. And hopefully people that actually love eso will do the same.

I found this post from someone at zos, dont know much about it but ill leave it here as well. GG

Um, no.

We've been paying into ESO for over a decade now. It hasn't made any difference yet. As a PvP main I paid for vengeance, which I abhor. ZOS never even tried to limit heal and shield stacking despite years of of requests for the change.

If ZOS delivers content I like, I'll pay. If they don't, I won't. That's how this works. It's not up to us to donate to some form of a go fund me effort. IMO the writing's been on the wall since U35 and ToT came out. I was cautiously hopeful things would turn around this year, but now MS has pulled the rug out from the skeleton crew ESO already had to work with.

So it's the same as it's always been. Deliver content I like and I'll happily buy it. I despise vengeance and the guise it was rolled out under, so I'm not spending $ on the game for now.

JustLovely · July 10

RaikaNA wrote: »

Lagzee wrote: »

At least until we know more. I understand the dooming and negative feelings, of course. What I dont understand is the people who claim to love eso, and zos, who are saying they are going to unsubscribe or uninstall. As far as we know currently zos is going to keep going forward with eso, so by all means if you want to fast track the downfall of eso, and more cuts from Microsoft, then keep this mindset. But if you actually care about zos/eso then the answer is to keep supporting the game the same way you have been.

If you want to boycott something then boycott Microsoft in other ways, with other products. But the reality is Microsoft owns many games/studios that many of us love and dont want to see disappear. For me thats mostly zenimax/betheseda/blizzard related. So its a strange position to be in, especially when you really dislike what they are doing.

I also think its just too soon to tell what the impact will be at zos. There are no guarantees right now. No guarantee of maintenance mode, or shutdown, or that there is only a skeleton crew left. And personally i think those things are very unlikely. If you want to know what maintenance mode looks like, or what a skeleton crew looks like, then look to new world. The lights are currently kept on by like 1-3 people. And the game is still going even now. It does not look like dozens, or hundreds, of people still actively working at a studio developing a game.

Also, if the original post that blew up is to be believed then half of the people, that were actively working on content, were let go. Not half of the total team. Yes, seeing names like rich, gina, and fin, on that list is shocking and sad. Yes, seeing 200 people get laid off is shocking and sad. But we dont know where most these positions came from, aside from the list of like 60 names here on the forums, or what kind of impact they will have on things. We just dont know right now. So personally i am going to withhold judgement until i see what the future looks like, such as any changes to the roadmap, and see what zos will eventually say about this. And hopefully people that actually love eso will do the same.

I found this post from someone at zos, dont know much about it but ill leave it here as well. GG

[snip] Why else would they lock the crafting bag under a paid subscription? I must have spent thousands of dollars supporting ZOS over the years, and recently I found myself in a deep financial situation after my father passed away, where I am unable to afford their overpriced ESO+ Subscription, so I had to do the unspeakable and unsubscribe. I did it before all the firings. Since then, I realized that my relationship with the game was nothing but... how can I explain this so that the moderators won't censor me... A paid friend who only treats me well as long as I pay them money. When I did unsubscribe, I was given no option to explain why I was doing it in the first place.

"I got dozens of friends, and the fun never ends. That is, as long as I'm buying." - Styx

From the song "too much time on my hands" Weird how it nails this situation exactly.

JustLovely · July 10

Sly80 wrote: »

If I'm going to unsubscribe from anything, it will be my MS Office Suite.

It's much more cost effective to buy the Office bundle outright. The subscription option is a money pit.

dsopel · July 10

"If you care about eso and zos dont make a bad situation worse"

Amen to that.

I don't understand peoples who cancelling subscription because MS leaning off part of the ZOS team. How it can help?
MS don't care about this. I renewed my subscription by next year and hope that ESO stiil be there. Love this game. Cross fingers for the rest of ZOS team. You are doing a great job. Keep it up !

Freelancer_ESO · July 10

Generally speaking, the results of people changing their spending would likely depend on the amount of money that an item is making or losing.

If the cuts are occurring because ESO is losing money then it is likely that people dropping their spending may lead to further layoffs or the game shutting down eventually.

If the cuts are occurring because while ESO is profitable Microsoft thinks ESO can provide them with a larger profits with less staff the cuts will continue as long as that belief remains the case.

Gabriel_H · July 10

JustLovely wrote: »

ZOS never even tried to limit heal and shield stacking despite years of of requests for the change.

Actually they did recently and quiet significantly - the great's of Cyrodiil did not take it well and ZOS reversed course just to stop the crying.