Malprave wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Malprave wrote: »

I’m not going to continue this back and forth with you. You had your say and I had mine and only time will tell how it works out.

No, we don't need "time to tell", if you know anything about this industry and how these things play out, its pretty obvious where its heading. Our life experiences are different, I have experienced this multiple times not only as a customer but an employee, so what may be obvious to me (glarlingly obvious) may be off your radar. That is the only reason I keep explaining things to you.

Malprave wrote: »

But as I take my leave I’m going to reiterate that imo Zos isn’t suffering from a shortage of manpower. The game will go on. Possibly better than before.

There is no evidence of that. There is less manpower now than a year ago and this past years offerings were the worse since 2014. Paltry is not a strong enough word.

How you are managing to think the game will get better, with less people, less resources is not something I can comprehend as it flies against the reality of how things work, especially knowing that some of the staff let go were in fact good their jobs.

Thanks for setting me straight. Don’t suppose you want to explain how offshoring works to me? I’m a little fuzzy on that too.

Offshoring has nothing to do with this. As I already explained, that others have explained. The layoffs were MS wide and Zenimax wide, not just one or two studios.

Hungary is not going to save ESO and I say this with more love than you can imagine for the Hungarian people as I have a vested interest in those people.

The fact is there are less people to work on the game now then there was a year ago. How are things going to get better, pushed out faster, less bugs with less people?

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

I don't think the layoffs will be good for the overall health of the game by any means. My only hope/cope is that this will force them to narrow their focus on combat balance and finishing the class rework in lieu of new content. My PvP friends and I just need a fun PvP environment. Most of us haven't paid attention to new content in years already other than to get new gear for PvP. The layoffs are most certainly bad for the game overall but could be "good for us" (pvpers) in some small way. Though a declining PvP population is also a concern.

I can appreciate your hope, but honestly do you really think they are going to put what limited (very limited) resources they have into PVP? It's not gonna happen.

Even the most popular MMORPG's that have a PVE focus do not put as much effort into PVP.

I have PVP'd since 2002 with Battlfield 1942 (Desert combat mod) and then in 2004 with WOW. I grinded High Warlord, got the "Lord of War" title (last man standing in a free for all on a hunter), etc.

So I get it, and I love PVP, but unless the game is primarily a PVP game, we are simply not going to see limited resources put into PVP when the game has such a heavy PVE focus like ESO.

I don't expect them to actually put any meaningful work into PvP other than finishing the class refresh and hopefully doing about as good of a job as they did with DK. That will be enough pvp "content" to last a good while.

Ya, but even the class refresh was said to take two years, before the layoffs. If they continue with class refreshes, its gonna take longer.

True unless other projects get cut in favor of prioritizing the class refresh.

Which could be the case, but I would argue that it would be a dumb move.

One of the issues that faces ESO right now is that the business model was based on the yearly release of Chapters, which often included new zones, new mechanics, new classes etc. These are the things the ESO player base is used to looking forward to.

We have already had a year of sub par content regarding these kinds of features. I don't think the game can go on for too long without implementing some of this stuff back into the game.

The seasons pass is just doing the same thing we have always done for cosmetics/currency. Its not really new content, nothing to really look forward to.

The class refresh is needed and its welcomed and it will have positve impacts on the game, but its not consumable content which is what the player base is looking for.

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Offshoring has nothing to do with this.

I can understand bringing this up if they made any sort of announcement that they would be hiring in lower cost markets, but they have not.

Even if they did, I don't see how replacing people with 10 and 20 years with new, cheaper employees with no experience at the company would make things better for anyone but Asha.

AScarlato wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Offshoring has nothing to do with this.

I can understand bringing this up if they made any sort of announcement that they would be hiring in lower cost markets, but they have not.

Even if they did, I don't see how replacing people with 10 and 20 years with new, cheaper employees with no experience at the company would make things better for anyone but Asha.

I have said to my wife for years that the entirety of Zenimax Maryland should be let go and move the studio to a market that has a lower cost of living in order to lower wages/increase profits/get more work done of the same money. There is also the work ethic which varies across the world among different people and I personally never saw Maryland as a focused area, much like SoCal, its too relaxed and a lot of money/time gets wasted in people screwing around. I saw this first hand at a design studio I worked for in Burbank (among others).

But like you said, nothing has been said about this and even if it was it does not necessarily mean a better game, especially when so much of what is made comes from that exact talent at the maryland studio. Creatives are not easy to replace as people might think. Art styles, writing styles, direction styles can all alter the feel of a product, maybe in a good way, more often then not in a bad way (only because a prescedent has been set by the OG creatives).

So based on my experience both as an employee and a customer, I am just not seeing the current direction as something that is going to turn the game around to bring it back to some semblance of its former self, and not seeing the methods in which to do so.

Others in this thread call me/us/others "naysayers", I personally feel it's derogatory, out of place and not even remotely describing the position I am trying to present.

My goal, if any is simply to get people to think before they spend money. I have heavy buyers remorse for playing this game as I never felt I got out of it what I was putting into it. I understand that milage varies, but that is the point in these discussions, to help illustrate how the game as it used to be is not going to be the same going forward.

I am frankly tired of wasting money on digital products that studios do not deliver on and I feel its disrespectful to the customer to mislead through creative verbiage that nothing is on fire, when we can see it is.

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Offshoring has nothing to do with this.

I can understand bringing this up if they made any sort of announcement that they would be hiring in lower cost markets, but they have not.

Even if they did, I don't see how replacing people with 10 and 20 years with new, cheaper employees with no experience at the company would make things better for anyone but Asha.

I have said to my wife for years that the entirety of Zenimax Maryland should be let go and move the studio to a market that has a lower cost of living in order to lower wages/increase profits/get more work done of the same money. There is also the work ethic which varies across the world among different people and I personally never saw Maryland as a focused area, much like SoCal, its too relaxed and a lot of money/time gets wasted in people screwing around. I saw this first hand at a design studio I worked for in Burbank (among others).

But like you said, nothing has been said about this and even if it was it does not necessarily mean a better game, especially when so much of what is made comes from that exact talent at the maryland studio. Creatives are not easy to replace as people might think. Art styles, writing styles, direction styles can all alter the feel of a product, maybe in a good way, more often then not in a bad way (only because a prescedent has been set by the OG creatives).

So based on my experience both as an employee and a customer, I am just not seeing the current direction as something that is going to turn the game around to bring it back to some semblance of its former self, and not seeing the methods in which to do so.

Others in this thread call me/us/others "naysayers", I personally feel it's derogatory, out of place and not even remotely describing the position I am trying to present.

My goal, if any is simply to get people to think before they spend money. I have heavy buyers remorse for playing this game as I never felt I got out of it what I was putting into it. I understand that milage varies, but that is the point in these discussions, to help illustrate how the game as it used to be is not going to be the same going forward.

I am frankly tired of wasting money on digital products that studios do not deliver on and I feel its disrespectful to the customer to mislead through creative verbiage that nothing is on fire, when we can see it is.

Ok, now you're getting ridiculous. 10 years of great content, experiences, memories, etc. and you think you're not getting your money's worth? You must have some high or unreasonable expectations. The game isn't as bad as you're making it out to be.

AScarlato wrote: »

I mean the only info we've seen is that Asha still is going to let go even more people, not hire anyone. It's such a bizarre argument that the game will improve when this hasn't happened and the only info we have is the exact opposite.

Agreed, it really makes little sense.

AScarlato wrote: »

Also I worked for a global outsourcing company. Cheaper isn't always better. Oftentimes it's just higher-ups being willing to sacrifice some level of quality that they find acceptable in exchange for savings.

Yep, more often than not its an "acceptible" reduction in quality or performance, of course not on the consumer end.

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

dubq77 wrote: »

Ok, now you're getting ridiculous. 10 years of great content, experiences, memories, etc. and you think you're not getting your money's worth? You must have some high or unreasonable expectations. The game isn't as bad as you're making it out to be.

Not vs what I put into it, that is the key factor. I have spent countless thousands on cosmetics (because you could not work for them in game like in WOW) trying to chase the fun, it just never materialized.

So for me (and my wife) we just do not feel like ESO was ever worth the expense. WOW was because we got our cosmetics in game, but we quit wow as well because they are focusing hard on cosmetics in housing. We already experienced this issue with ESO housing, no reason to rehash it in wow. We learned our lesson.

So, no it's not ridiculous and in fact it's something managment at ZOS should study and take into consideration. That there is a threshhold of what a consumer is willing to spend before the product they once loved turns to apathy.

Again, high expectations, and you were not forced to purchase any of those cosmetics. That's a personal choice and is on you.

I am sure its just a "knee-jerk reaction."

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

We got subclassing, reused assets as "new content". A half baked island that was very mild in content. The second phase was a disaster.

Want to take a wild guess who was responsible for systems like sub-classing, as well as the other systems people complain about?!

In 2025, ZeniMax Online Studios (ZOS) had an estimated total of 300 to 500 employees across all its locations (including Hunt Valley, MD, Austin, TX, and Budapest, Hungary) before a significant reduction in staff.Before Microsoft and Xbox made major cuts, union records indicated the studio had a localized and national unionized presence of over 460 workers.

And 213 2 days ago.

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Come on man. When Matt was let go that was the writing on the wall, Rich taking his place and being let go a year later is writing etched permanently into a wall.

No game studio has had this kind of changeover and maintained their game/studio. Don't be naive and think ESO is fine.

This is pretty misleading info. Rich never took Matt's place. Jo Burba took Matt's place, and he's still at ZOS. Nick Giacomini took Rich's place last year, and Rich stepped into a newly created role which is now gone.

Also ESO doesn't have less manpower. We know that at least 300 employees were dedicated to the Blackbird project while the rest, between 100-200 if were are going by linkedin numbers as of June 2026, were working on ESO. It was also stated that of the people working on ESO, some were pulled to work on both ESO and Blackbird at the same time which further reduced the amount of people working of ESO. When Blackbird got cancelled, only 64 employees got laid off according to the WARN notice, and it was reported that at least 25 of them were rehired. Now 213 got laid off from the recent events. Some serious talent was lost, but ESO is still in a net positive compared to the years where Blackbird was siphoning its resources. The 213 lay offs also do not go into effect until 60 days after the WARN notice, so those affected are still currently working at ZOS.

It's not helping anyone trying to convince people that the game is done for, and it's not copium by pointing out numbers and facts. Nobody knows what the future of the game is going to be like yet, but it's for sure not going to be in the same vein as New World or Destiny 2. If they get hit with another 100-200 layoffs, then yes you can say that, but as of now the game is not going to be closing out in one year like people say it's going to do. The only thing people should do is to wait for the new roadmap before getting too emotional (I'm looking at you Skinny). I am more than certain that ZOS is trying to figure out what should be priority during this 60 day period to lessen the impact on future content, as well as deciding who to move around to fill the shoes of those who are going to be leaving. The big number and many familiar names being lost is a scary thing to see, but the situation isn't as bleak or dire as people think it is.

Who is Rich Lambert?

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

I’m going to keep my sub going, keep playing the game, and not giving in to fear-mongering and imagined worst-case-scenarios.

Legend.

hiyde wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

RandomKodiak wrote: »

And 213 2 days ago.

Flawed premise. The 213 is people laid off or had a reduction in work hours at the site. It could be 213 laid off, or it could be 150 (we know 63 have been laid off) whose hours at ZOS were reduced. Maybe that means they now have part-time jobs, or maybe they have full-time jobs split over multiple studios which Microsoft own. We simply don't know.

Has anyone been able to find a single example of anyone who only had their hours cut, or any quotes from MS that some of the 1,600 layoffs this week weren't actually layoffs, but reductions in hours? I can't seem to find anything of this nature.

I also went ahead and requested a copy of the WARN Act letter sent to the State of Maryland which should provide this info, but from what research I've been able to do, mass layoffs of this nature, along with everything MS has said publicly is suggesting these are full terminations.

In reviewing LinkedIn posts today (I'm on there a lot for my job), I didn't see anyone mentioning an RIF. Only people fully let go that I've seen.

Not to say there aren't any, but I'm not seeing that so I think at this point it's more logical to assume most if not all were fully removed rather than just working part time now.

I do acknowledge anyone working reduced hours but still employed may not want to speak publicly though.

AScarlato wrote: »

Malprave wrote: »

I’m going to continue to go against the grain here and say that the game will continue to improve and add new content.

Out of curiosity, what thought process led you to this conclusion?

ESO is still a money maker. They are not going to kill a game that is still successful