Rich Lambert was let go, among the many others.

Pixiepumpkin · July 9

Come on man. When Matt was let go that was the writing on the wall, Rich taking his place and being let go a year later is writing etched permanently into a wall.

No game studio has had this kind of changeover and maintained their game/studio. Don't be naive and think ESO is fine.

Frayton · July 9

But copium is one hell of a drug.

Arunei · July 9

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Come on man. When Matt was let go that was the writing on the wall, Rich taking his place and being let go a year later is writing etched permanently into a wall.

No game studio has had this kind of changeover and maintained their game/studio. Don't be naive and think ESO is fine.

Or we could do the more responsible thing and advise people wait for the official statement regarding ESO rather than telling people to automatically jump to the worst conclusions, given we still have too little concrete information to base such extreme assumptions on.

ketsparrowhawk · July 9

Rich was the one name my friends and I were happy to see on the list.

Jo Burba was Frior's replacement and so far it seems like a dramatic improvement, up until The Bad News.

Pixiepumpkin · July 9

Arunei wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Come on man. When Matt was let go that was the writing on the wall, Rich taking his place and being let go a year later is writing etched permanently into a wall.

No game studio has had this kind of changeover and maintained their game/studio. Don't be naive and think ESO is fine.

Or we could do the more responsible thing and advise people wait for the official statement regarding ESO rather than telling people to automatically jump to the worst conclusions, given we still have too little concrete information to base such extreme assumptions on.

The responsible thing is to not mince words, pretend like everything is fine and give customers the false presentation that it will be business as usual going forward.
Any thing said will be worded in the most positive way possible misleading customers, not addressing the elephant in the room. This has been the case time and time again, done over and over by countless companies, especially in the modern era.

"Fresh new talent" is code word for letting go of the expensive vets who cost more and replacing them with college students who get paid pennies on the dollar and whom more often than not produce junk over what the vets made.

"Restructuring Staff" is code for "tons just got fired, work loads increased, productivity dropped and products suffering until the doors get closed".

You can't honestly think that what we saw produced as content from this past year+ is going to stay the same, much less get better after the studio director was let go along with a ton of other folks.

duagloth · July 9

One little victory on the road too redemption.

HybridFreak · July 9

Not gonna lie, seeing this plus the gate being fixed, definitely put a smile on my face.

Malprave · July 9

I’m going to continue to go against the grain here and say that the game will continue to improve and add new content.

Personofsecrets · July 9

I cant believe that I only got to play ome gamr of ToT with Rich.

Pixiepumpkin · July 9

Personofsecrets wrote: »

I cant believe that I only got to play ome gamr of ToT with Rich.

LOL, I love Tot, play it daily against NPC's. You are the reason I don't play against players. I don't mind losing, but the one time I played against you I got my bum handed to me so badly it made me log.

AScarlato · July 9

Malprave wrote: »

I’m going to continue to go against the grain here and say that the game will continue to improve and add new content.

Out of curiosity, what thought process led you to this conclusion?

Pixiepumpkin · July 9

AScarlato wrote: »

Malprave wrote: »

I’m going to continue to go against the grain here and say that the game will continue to improve and add new content.

Out of curiosity, what thought process led you to this conclusion?

I'd like to know the same. I see no reason or evidence to believe that ESO is going to be fine going forward, it's alreayd NOT been fine for over a year. A game cant magically get better after a bad run with less talented people making it.

Malprave · July 9

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

Malprave wrote: »

I’m going to continue to go against the grain here and say that the game will continue to improve and add new content.

Out of curiosity, what thought process led you to this conclusion?

I'd like to know the same. I see no reason or evidence to believe that ESO is going to be fine going forward, it's alreayd NOT been fine for over a year. A game cant magically get better after a bad run with less talented people making it.

Are the people at the five other facilities Zos operates less talented? What do you base that on? See, I can play that game too.

Everyone keeps assuming there just aren’t enough personnel available to work on the game. That’s hardly the case.

Pixiepumpkin · July 9

Malprave wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

Malprave wrote: »

I’m going to continue to go against the grain here and say that the game will continue to improve and add new content.

Out of curiosity, what thought process led you to this conclusion?

I'd like to know the same. I see no reason or evidence to believe that ESO is going to be fine going forward, it's alreayd NOT been fine for over a year. A game cant magically get better after a bad run with less talented people making it.

Are the people at the five other facilities Zos operates less talented? What do you base that on? See, I can play that game too.

Everyone keeps assuming there just aren’t enough personnel available to work on the game. That’s hardly the case.

A year or so ago we were told that customers did not like the "chapter" model, that ZOS was going to change things up, to allow them to put out content when the content was ready vs setting a date.

We got subclassing, reused assets as "new content". A half baked island that was very mild in content. The second phase was a disaster.

Since then its pretty much just been seasons pass, a way to distribute cosmetics and consumables by redoing the same content.

The problem is we are not getting a lot of new "content", not in the traditional sense. Its been reused/rehashed assets and that was with the "larger" team.

Now that the team has been gutted, do you really think the content is going to get better, or that MORE content is going to be released...again, with less people?

You keep posting about all these amazing zenimax studios, yet if they were actually working on ESO, we should have seen real fruits of that labor, and yet we have not.

The manpower vs content being pushed out does not add up.

AScarlato · July 9

Malprave wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

Malprave wrote: »

I’m going to continue to go against the grain here and say that the game will continue to improve and add new content.

Out of curiosity, what thought process led you to this conclusion?

I'd like to know the same. I see no reason or evidence to believe that ESO is going to be fine going forward, it's alreayd NOT been fine for over a year. A game cant magically get better after a bad run with less talented people making it.

Are the people at the five other facilities Zos operates less talented? What do you base that on? See, I can play that game too.

Everyone keeps assuming there just aren’t enough personnel available to work on the game. That’s hardly the case.

Splitting your team into 5 offices doesn't change the amount of talent you had available. Losing 213 people with no evidence whatsoever that no skill sets were lost seems very optimistic.

You also may be confused that the layoffs only impacted people physically in MD when in fact you can see on LinkedIn people are reporting losing their jobs nation-wide.

We have very clear examples of top talent like the writer for Zerith and Sharp losing her job which makes me question which ones are left as her work is regarded as some of the best we've had recently.

They clearly lost enough skills and talent that they no longer can commit to their prior roadmap and the impact is significant enough that it seems it will be a while before we see one. But I guess we will see. I have seen nothing that would result in my thinking things will be improved. Especially when those remaining may have to work in fear of whatever layoffs are to come the remaining of this year.

React · July 9

Rich's attitude towards the playerbase was never something I appreciated. To be honest, I think the game could have benefited from new leadership several years ago before much of the major damage had been done by things like U35, subclassing, etc.

"Knee Jerk reactions, while tiresome, are expected."

"I don't care if you earned your maelstorm weapons in veteran. If you want perfected, go grind them again. You can be mad at me if you want."

"For people that hate the game so much, they sure do spend a lot of time watching/playing it!"

Malprave · July 9

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Malprave wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

Malprave wrote: »

I’m going to continue to go against the grain here and say that the game will continue to improve and add new content.

Out of curiosity, what thought process led you to this conclusion?

I'd like to know the same. I see no reason or evidence to believe that ESO is going to be fine going forward, it's alreayd NOT been fine for over a year. A game cant magically get better after a bad run with less talented people making it.

Are the people at the five other facilities Zos operates less talented? What do you base that on? See, I can play that game too.

Everyone keeps assuming there just aren’t enough personnel available to work on the game. That’s hardly the case.

A year or so ago we were told that customers did not like the "chapter" model, that ZOS was going to change things up, to allow them to put out content when the content was ready vs setting a date.

We got subclassing, reused assets as "new content". A half baked island that was very mild in content. The second phase was a disaster.

Since then its pretty much just been seasons pass, a way to distribute cosmetics and consumables by redoing the same content.

The problem is we are not getting a lot of new "content", not in the traditional sense. Its been reused/rehashed assets and that was with the "larger" team.

Now that the team has been gutted, do you really think the content is going to get better, or that MORE content is going to be released...again, with less people?

You keep posting about all these amazing zenimax studios, yet if they were actually working on ESO, we should have seen real fruits of that labor, and yet we have not.

The manpower vs content being pushed out does not add up.

Lmao. Solstice event was hot garbage. But the Night Market was the best thing they’ve done in years.

I’m not going to debate quality of content with you though because you just made the best case in favor of the layoffs that I’ve seen.

Read what you just wrote. “The manpower vs content being pushed out does not add up.”

So, you figure Microsoft didn’t notice that too?

Pixiepumpkin · July 9

React wrote: »

Rich's attitude towards the playerbase was never something I appreciated. To be honest, I think the game could have benefited from new leadership several years ago before much of the major damage had been done by things like U35, subclassing, etc.

"Knee Jerk reactions, while tiresome, are expected."

"I don't care if you earned your maelstorm weapons in veteran. If you want perfected, go grind them again. You can be mad at me if you want."

"For people that hate the game so much, they sure do spend a lot of time watching/playing it!"

Note. I am not defending him, not in the slighest. I have choice words I'd use to describe him that I can not use on the forums.

My point is that when leadership like Matt, then Rich get booted along with the countless others that history has shown its never been good for the game.

Basically what I am saying is that hope and copium are fine, but in the real world ESO is in a bad state and there is no evidence indicating it will get better.

React · July 9

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

React wrote: »

Rich's attitude towards the playerbase was never something I appreciated. To be honest, I think the game could have benefited from new leadership several years ago before much of the major damage had been done by things like U35, subclassing, etc.

"Knee Jerk reactions, while tiresome, are expected."

"I don't care if you earned your maelstorm weapons in veteran. If you want perfected, go grind them again. You can be mad at me if you want."

"For people that hate the game so much, they sure do spend a lot of time watching/playing it!"

Note. I am not defending him, not in the slighest. I have choice words I'd use to describe him that I can not use on the forums.

My point is that when leadership like Matt, then Rich get booted along with the countless others that history has shown its never been good for the game.

Basically what I am saying is that hope and copium are fine, but in the real world ESO is in a bad state and there is no evidence indicating it will get better.

I agree. I don't think there is any reality the game is somehow "better off" after these layoffs.

Personally though, I'm just going to wait for the updated roadmap and upcoming dev stream to form my own opinions. Not much point speculating at the moment until we hear from the studio, and once more details are made public about the actual metrics of everything.

Pixiepumpkin · July 9

Malprave wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Malprave wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

Malprave wrote: »

I’m going to continue to go against the grain here and say that the game will continue to improve and add new content.

Out of curiosity, what thought process led you to this conclusion?

I'd like to know the same. I see no reason or evidence to believe that ESO is going to be fine going forward, it's alreayd NOT been fine for over a year. A game cant magically get better after a bad run with less talented people making it.

Are the people at the five other facilities Zos operates less talented? What do you base that on? See, I can play that game too.

Everyone keeps assuming there just aren’t enough personnel available to work on the game. That’s hardly the case.

A year or so ago we were told that customers did not like the "chapter" model, that ZOS was going to change things up, to allow them to put out content when the content was ready vs setting a date.

We got subclassing, reused assets as "new content". A half baked island that was very mild in content. The second phase was a disaster.

Since then its pretty much just been seasons pass, a way to distribute cosmetics and consumables by redoing the same content.

The problem is we are not getting a lot of new "content", not in the traditional sense. Its been reused/rehashed assets and that was with the "larger" team.

Now that the team has been gutted, do you really think the content is going to get better, or that MORE content is going to be released...again, with less people?

You keep posting about all these amazing zenimax studios, yet if they were actually working on ESO, we should have seen real fruits of that labor, and yet we have not.

The manpower vs content being pushed out does not add up.

Lmao. Solstice event was hot garbage. But the Night Market was the best thing they’ve done in years.

I’m not going to debate quality of content with you though because you just made the best case in favor of the layoffs that I’ve seen.

Read what you just wrote. “The manpower vs content being pushed out does not add up.”

So, you figure Microsoft didn’t notice that too?

And you think that the game will have more content (needed) and get better (needed) with less people? Its not gonna happen.

And to completely refute your claim, a lot of those people who were let go, WERE good at their jobs.

You assert that the "bad talent" was let go, that is not how these things work. I worked in a design studio and saw some of the BEST talent let go. I mean I already explained this.

Pixiepumpkin · July 9

React wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

React wrote: »

Rich's attitude towards the playerbase was never something I appreciated. To be honest, I think the game could have benefited from new leadership several years ago before much of the major damage had been done by things like U35, subclassing, etc.

"Knee Jerk reactions, while tiresome, are expected."

"I don't care if you earned your maelstorm weapons in veteran. If you want perfected, go grind them again. You can be mad at me if you want."

"For people that hate the game so much, they sure do spend a lot of time watching/playing it!"

Note. I am not defending him, not in the slighest. I have choice words I'd use to describe him that I can not use on the forums.

My point is that when leadership like Matt, then Rich get booted along with the countless others that history has shown its never been good for the game.

Basically what I am saying is that hope and copium are fine, but in the real world ESO is in a bad state and there is no evidence indicating it will get better.

I agree. I don't think there is any reality the game is somehow "better off" after these layoffs.

Personally though, I'm just going to wait for the updated roadmap and upcoming dev stream to form my own opinions. Not much point speculating at the moment until we hear from the studio, and once more details are made public about the actual metrics of everything.

I don't really consider it speculation when we have already seen what happened last year when strong heads were let go, and the content (for the lack of a better word) that was released.

The situation now is similar if not the same except worse than last year.

I am at the juncture where I simply think its naive and foolish to put money into this game. I bought every chapter and every DLC and subbed every minute I played ESO until a year ago. I see no reason, nothing put out by the studio to indicate that the game will return to a model that is worthy of investing money and time into.

Malprave · July 9

I never said people let go were bad at their jobs. I have no way of knowing what kind of job they did. It’s a question of expense. And I’m guessing that the Maryland facility is expensive to operate.

And when you have five other facilities that can maybe do the same job, possibly much more cheaply (looking at you Budapest), this is what happens.

You know how the story goes. You know the end of it. So don’t keep berating me about it. I didn’t make these rules.

ketsparrowhawk · July 9

I don't think the layoffs will be good for the overall health of the game by any means. My only hope/cope is that this will force them to narrow their focus on combat balance and finishing the class rework in lieu of new content. My PvP friends and I just need a fun PvP environment. Most of us haven't paid attention to new content in years already other than to get new gear for PvP. The layoffs are most certainly bad for the game overall but could be "good for us" (pvpers) in some small way. Though a declining PvP population is also a concern.

Pixiepumpkin · July 9

Malprave wrote: »

I never said people let go were bad at their jobs. I have no way of knowing what kind of job they did. It’s a question of expense. And I’m guessing that the Maryland facility is expensive to operate.

And when you have five other facilities that can maybe do the same job, possibly much more cheaply (looking at you Budapest), this is what happens.

You know how the story goes. You know the end of it. So don’t keep berating me about it. I didn’t make these rules.

You did right here.

Malprave wrote: »

Lmao. Solstice event was hot garbage. But the Night Market was the best thing they’ve done in years.

I’m not going to debate quality of content with you though because you just made the best case in favor of the layoffs that I’ve seen.

Read what you just wrote. “The manpower vs content being pushed out does not add up.”

So, you figure Microsoft didn’t notice that too?

Malprave wrote: »

And when you have five other facilities that can maybe do the same job, possibly much more cheaply (looking at you Budapest), this is what happens.

Cuts were made studio wide, not just Maryland.

Malprave wrote: »

You know how the story goes. You know the end of it. So don’t keep berating me about it. I didn’t make these rules.

I created the thread, you replied to me. Please quote me where I "berated" you.

Pixiepumpkin · July 9

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

I don't think the layoffs will be good for the overall health of the game by any means. My only hope/cope is that this will force them to narrow their focus on combat balance and finishing the class rework in lieu of new content. My PvP friends and I just need a fun PvP environment. Most of us haven't paid attention to new content in years already other than to get new gear for PvP. The layoffs are most certainly bad for the game overall but could be "good for us" (pvpers) in some small way. Though a declining PvP population is also a concern.

I can appreciate your hope, but honestly do you really think they are going to put what limited (very limited) resources they have into PVP? It's not gonna happen.

Even the most popular MMORPG's that have a PVE focus do not put as much effort into PVP.

I have PVP'd since 2002 with Battlfield 1942 (Desert combat mod) and then in 2004 with WOW. I grinded High Warlord, got the "Lord of War" title (last man standing in a free for all on a hunter), etc.

So I get it, and I love PVP, but unless the game is primarily a PVP game, we are simply not going to see limited resources put into PVP when the game has such a heavy PVE focus like ESO.

ketsparrowhawk · July 9

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

I don't think the layoffs will be good for the overall health of the game by any means. My only hope/cope is that this will force them to narrow their focus on combat balance and finishing the class rework in lieu of new content. My PvP friends and I just need a fun PvP environment. Most of us haven't paid attention to new content in years already other than to get new gear for PvP. The layoffs are most certainly bad for the game overall but could be "good for us" (pvpers) in some small way. Though a declining PvP population is also a concern.

I can appreciate your hope, but honestly do you really think they are going to put what limited (very limited) resources they have into PVP? It's not gonna happen.

Even the most popular MMORPG's that have a PVE focus do not put as much effort into PVP.

I have PVP'd since 2002 with Battlfield 1942 (Desert combat mod) and then in 2004 with WOW. I grinded High Warlord, got the "Lord of War" title (last man standing in a free for all on a hunter), etc.

So I get it, and I love PVP, but unless the game is primarily a PVP game, we are simply not going to see limited resources put into PVP when the game has such a heavy PVE focus like ESO.

I don't expect them to actually put any meaningful work into PvP other than finishing the class refresh and hopefully doing about as good of a job as they did with DK. That will be enough pvp "content" to last a good while.

Malprave · July 9

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Malprave wrote: »

I never said people let go were bad at their jobs. I have no way of knowing what kind of job they did. It’s a question of expense. And I’m guessing that the Maryland facility is expensive to operate.

And when you have five other facilities that can maybe do the same job, possibly much more cheaply (looking at you Budapest), this is what happens.

You know how the story goes. You know the end of it. So don’t keep berating me about it. I didn’t make these rules.

You did right here.

Malprave wrote: »

Lmao. Solstice event was hot garbage. But the Night Market was the best thing they’ve done in years.

I’m not going to debate quality of content with you though because you just made the best case in favor of the layoffs that I’ve seen.

Read what you just wrote. “The manpower vs content being pushed out does not add up.”

So, you figure Microsoft didn’t notice that too?

Malprave wrote: »

And when you have five other facilities that can maybe do the same job, possibly much more cheaply (looking at you Budapest), this is what happens.

Cuts were made studio wide, not just Maryland.

Malprave wrote: »

You know how the story goes. You know the end of it. So don’t keep berating me about it. I didn’t make these rules.

I created the thread, you replied to me. Please quote me where I "berated" you.

I’m not going to continue this back and forth with you. You had your say and I had mine and only time will tell how it works out.

But as I take my leave I’m going to reiterate that imo Zos isn’t suffering from a shortage of manpower. The game will go on. Possibly better than before.

Pixiepumpkin · July 9

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

I don't think the layoffs will be good for the overall health of the game by any means. My only hope/cope is that this will force them to narrow their focus on combat balance and finishing the class rework in lieu of new content. My PvP friends and I just need a fun PvP environment. Most of us haven't paid attention to new content in years already other than to get new gear for PvP. The layoffs are most certainly bad for the game overall but could be "good for us" (pvpers) in some small way. Though a declining PvP population is also a concern.

I can appreciate your hope, but honestly do you really think they are going to put what limited (very limited) resources they have into PVP? It's not gonna happen.

Even the most popular MMORPG's that have a PVE focus do not put as much effort into PVP.

I have PVP'd since 2002 with Battlfield 1942 (Desert combat mod) and then in 2004 with WOW. I grinded High Warlord, got the "Lord of War" title (last man standing in a free for all on a hunter), etc.

So I get it, and I love PVP, but unless the game is primarily a PVP game, we are simply not going to see limited resources put into PVP when the game has such a heavy PVE focus like ESO.

I don't expect them to actually put any meaningful work into PvP other than finishing the class refresh and hopefully doing about as good of a job as they did with DK. That will be enough pvp "content" to last a good while.

Ya, but even the class refresh was said to take two years, before the layoffs. If they continue with class refreshes, its gonna take longer.

Pixiepumpkin · July 9

Malprave wrote: »

I’m not going to continue this back and forth with you. You had your say and I had mine and only time will tell how it works out.

No, we don't need "time to tell", if you know anything about this industry and how these things play out, its pretty obvious where its heading. Our life experiences are different, I have experienced this multiple times not only as a customer but an employee, so what may be obvious to me (glarlingly obvious) may be off your radar. That is the only reason I keep explaining things to you.

Malprave wrote: »

But as I take my leave I’m going to reiterate that imo Zos isn’t suffering from a shortage of manpower. The game will go on. Possibly better than before.

There is no evidence of that. There is less manpower now than a year ago and this past years offerings were the worse since 2014. Paltry is not a strong enough word.

How you are managing to think the game will get better, with less people, less resources is not something I can comprehend as it flies against the reality of how things work, especially knowing that some of the staff let go were in fact good their jobs.

ketsparrowhawk · July 9

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

I don't think the layoffs will be good for the overall health of the game by any means. My only hope/cope is that this will force them to narrow their focus on combat balance and finishing the class rework in lieu of new content. My PvP friends and I just need a fun PvP environment. Most of us haven't paid attention to new content in years already other than to get new gear for PvP. The layoffs are most certainly bad for the game overall but could be "good for us" (pvpers) in some small way. Though a declining PvP population is also a concern.

I can appreciate your hope, but honestly do you really think they are going to put what limited (very limited) resources they have into PVP? It's not gonna happen.

Even the most popular MMORPG's that have a PVE focus do not put as much effort into PVP.

I have PVP'd since 2002 with Battlfield 1942 (Desert combat mod) and then in 2004 with WOW. I grinded High Warlord, got the "Lord of War" title (last man standing in a free for all on a hunter), etc.

So I get it, and I love PVP, but unless the game is primarily a PVP game, we are simply not going to see limited resources put into PVP when the game has such a heavy PVE focus like ESO.

I don't expect them to actually put any meaningful work into PvP other than finishing the class refresh and hopefully doing about as good of a job as they did with DK. That will be enough pvp "content" to last a good while.

Ya, but even the class refresh was said to take two years, before the layoffs. If they continue with class refreshes, its gonna take longer.

True unless other projects get cut in favor of prioritizing the class refresh.

Malprave · July 9

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Malprave wrote: »

I’m not going to continue this back and forth with you. You had your say and I had mine and only time will tell how it works out.

No, we don't need "time to tell", if you know anything about this industry and how these things play out, its pretty obvious where its heading. Our life experiences are different, I have experienced this multiple times not only as a customer but an employee, so what may be obvious to me (glarlingly obvious) may be off your radar. That is the only reason I keep explaining things to you.

Malprave wrote: »

But as I take my leave I’m going to reiterate that imo Zos isn’t suffering from a shortage of manpower. The game will go on. Possibly better than before.

There is no evidence of that. There is less manpower now than a year ago and this past years offerings were the worse since 2014. Paltry is not a strong enough word.

How you are managing to think the game will get better, with less people, less resources is not something I can comprehend as it flies against the reality of how things work, especially knowing that some of the staff let go were in fact good their jobs.

Thanks for setting me straight. Don’t suppose you want to explain how offshoring works to me? I’m a little fuzzy on that too.