Feels different...

Radiate77 · July 8

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Just wanted to follow up here. We are still gathering information and asking questions on our end as well. We want to follow up as soon as we can. We have launch for Season 1 and focusing on that for today. It will take some time before we have any additional information to share. But as soon as we have it, you'll hear from us.

Kevin a lot of us are waiting to continue with ESO after these cuts, unsure if there is a future for the game. Many of us played both New World and Destiny 2, and have seen this spiral before, and it’s always delayed roadmaps that signal an end.

Reassuring us with a new, updated Roadmap would be needed sooner, rather than later.

We cannot afford to wait around.

You're asking for them to lie then, you're gonna have to sit and wait just like the rest of us.

What a crazy thing to say, coming from someone who already had their rework.

Nobody is asking for lies, it is a matter of fact, that every day spent delaying this updated Roadmap, trust and faith in Zenimax Online Studios as a whole erodes.

And the unspoken truth, even with an updated Roadmap, if these class refreshes are pushed back a significant amount of time, you can enjoy a game populated only by Dragonknights and Werewolves.

How much of the population do they make up?
Like a fraction of a fraction?
Good luck keeping the lights on.

BardokRedSnow · July 8

They cant push out a roadmap when they are literally in the middle of restructuring their development team, relax. It aint happening for a bit. Demanding a roadmap is unrealistic and also tone deaf.

We all want one and the atmosphere is bad but understanding the reality of the situation is important. Not white knighting for zos, just stating its silly to force something when they themselves don't know whats going on yet fully.

LootAllTheStuff · July 8

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Just wanted to follow up here. We are still gathering information and asking questions on our end as well. We want to follow up as soon as we can. We have launch for Season 1 and focusing on that for today. It will take some time before we have any additional information to share. But as soon as we have it, you'll hear from us.

Just wanted to thank you for continuing to take time to read and respond despite being in what must be a very difficult and incredibly stressful situation. Your professionalism is apparent and appreciated.

ShutUpitsRed · July 8

Give them a few days to right themselves and breathe; a huge number of their coworkers just got fired out of nowhere. I can't even begin to imagine what ZOS is going through right now on a structural level, let alone figuring out what that means for the product. I'd certainly be polishing my resume and looking at my options to exit in their shoes; clearly job security is not a thing for them and that's terrifying in this economy.

Season 1 just released; play the game as usual, spend your money wisely, and understand nothing lasts forever regardless. Thousands of people's livelihoods and likely entire careers were just yanked out from under them because Microsoft is [redacted]; we're fine without knowing exactly what's happening with our video game for a little while.

AScarlato · July 8

This was posted on social media for the near future. Don't see Warden fresh unless I'm missing it.

merevie · July 8

Worse case scenarios recently -New World -shuttering -still gave players huge amounts of time to enjoy the game before doing so.

You are perfectly safe grabbing that tome purchase it will run out long before anything could go wrong.

They also need ESO as a baby cash cow to fund TS6, so it will exist for at least 24 months to do that.

And that's the worst possible option, so you're all good.

LukosCreyden · July 8

Indeed, this is one of those times where i can totally understand not getting communications. The team are probably reeling from what just happened to them and will likely need time to figure things out for themselves.

allochthons · July 8

Please stop asking for things like updated roadmaps. Yes, they lost half their team. But the layoffs are only half over.

Many of the remaining employees are in the US. If you live outside the US, remember that our health care is almost always linked to employment. Everyone who is left must be worried out of their minds that they'll be in the next round.

To us, this is a game.
To them, this is their careers. It could also mean bankruptcies:
Medical issues trigger 66 percent of personal bankruptcies in the United States.

Have some patience, good lord.

Lixiviant · July 8

Quite a few of our ESO friends who have helped us on the forums, worked on the game or spoke to us during the streams have lost their jobs. That affects me more than what direction this game is going in the next day, week or month. I know once everything has settled and the restructuring is either progressing or complete we will get more information.

Have some compassion for those who have to find another job in an industry that has quite a few problems.

Radiate77 · July 8

How does needing assurance that the game isn’t going anywhere equate to lacking compassion for members of the team who were laid off?

Now that is straight-up slander.

I treasured every one of those employees who were laid off, and have invested tens of thousands into ESO over this last decade doing my part to pay for their employment, as have many of my closest friends playing.

Insinuating anything else is disgusting, and you should be ashamed of yourselves.

AScarlato · July 8

Radiate77 wrote: »

How does needing assurance that the game isn’t going anywhere equate to lacking compassion for members of the team who were laid off?

Now that is straight-up slander.

I treasured every one of those employees who were laid off, and have invested tens of thousands into ESO over this last decade doing my part to pay for their employment, as have many of my closest friends playing.

Insinuating anything else is disgusting, and you should be ashamed of yourselves.

I agree. These aren't mutually exclusive.

We can both feel bad for all those laid off and worried about the future of the game at the same time.

I think we have to realistically have some more patience right now if we want accurate information, but both can be true at once.

Dagoth_Rac · July 8

How can ZOS tell you about the future of game when they don't know themselves? Gaming is 8% of Microsoft's revenue. Bethesda is a fraction of that and ZOS is a fraction of that fraction. These cuts were orchestrated from above. Way above.

Microsoft made a decision on how much headcount and how much money they are willing to allocate to gaming. Is it enough for ZOS to land on their feet and keep going with minimal loss of momentum? Enough to keep going but with some content delays? So little that ZOS are forced to shutter? Microsoft does not know and does not care.

Being a small corner of a giant conglomerate like Microsoft means that your fate is more akin to an act of God than anything else. ZOS has basically endured a natural disaster like a tornado or flood. Utterly devastating, indifferent, little warning, and time is needed to pick up the pieces before you can make any kind of predictions about what the future holds.

ZOS are not lying. They are not holding out. They are not being difficult. They don't know yet themselves what exactly they are capable of in the aftermath of these cuts.

BardokRedSnow · July 8

Its not about asking for assurance, its about addressing the developers and stating they need to do so asap when they obviously already know the state of things for fans. They know, obviously they know and have already addressed it several times stating when they're able and ready they will.

Considering their staff was literally gutted in half it is pretty clear why they're unable to do so yet in spite of obvious mass uncertainty.

The captain cant assure you the boat wont sink when half the crew just got lost at sea in a storm.

DrMedBorn · July 8

it does feel different but based on pc-eu I dont feel any players are leaving or beeing bothered by this (yet)

Wuuffyy · July 8

AScarlato wrote: »

I definitely think the ball is back in their court to help their customers assess whether they want to invest more time and money into the game.

A roadmap would be the best way to make a positive impression.

They probably are still reeling from what happened though and probably are doing their best to meet and decide what promises or aspirations they can make, and in what time frame. I'd rather them take the time they need for this to have some thought and not come across later as empty promises.

Hopefully we hear something soon but I imagine they have their work cut out before them.

To 2nd this, empty promises will be just about the worst thing warranted right now.

They would post something ‘officially’ that the community will be looking at to further determine longevity… and if things begin to continuously fall through the cracks on that impromptu roadmap- community confidence will likely and irreparably falter.

I personally would prefer they take their time to issue an update and ‘as truthful as possible roadmap’, even if it takes a week for example.

Lorajet · July 8

Lixiviant wrote: »

Quite a few of our ESO friends who have helped us on the forums, worked on the game or spoke to us during the streams have lost their jobs. That affects me more than what direction this game is going in the next day, week or month. I know once everything has settled and the restructuring is either progressing or complete we will get more information.

Have some compassion for those who have to find another job in an industry that has quite a few problems.

Spot on - couldn't have said it better myself.

Faerugue · July 8

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Haenk wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I would find it difficult to expect a 1-day turnaround on getting us new solid information. That’s not realistic. With PTS still scheduled later this month, we’ll get something in the coming weeks, I’m sure.

You mean, this decision came completely unprepared and they are now discussing how to proceed?
I wonder what would happen on the stock market, if a billion dollar company announces to massively cut down their core working force/development team due to weaker-than-expected business development?
Trust going down to zero.
You *have* to prepare for those announcements - how hard can it be to prepare a two-liner? "We have adjusted the structure of our development team for the years to come." Saying *nothing* has me interpreting this as "we are axing this completely, but won't tell yet as we want to keep the money flowing in as long as possible".

From what has been said in these forums, at least one of the devs had just been told on Friday that they were getting a raise, only to find out on Monday that they had just been fired.

I can neither confirm or refute the accuracy of that, but assuming it's correct, it sure doesn't sound to me like everyone at ZOS knew about this until it happened, in which case I don't see how they could have prepared a statement in advance.

And I doubt the other game companies affected knew that they were about to get gutted, either.

If that is true, then either his own manager got laid off with him or management itself was a mess to begin with, no sane company would allow such situation to occur.

The stuff about the dev getting the raise: I have seen the LinkedIn post myself...

Wolf_Eye · July 9

Radiate77 wrote: »

How does needing assurance that the game isn’t going anywhere equate to lacking compassion for members of the team who were laid off?

Now that is straight-up slander.

I treasured every one of those employees who were laid off, and have invested tens of thousands into ESO over this last decade doing my part to pay for their employment, as have many of my closest friends playing.

Insinuating anything else is disgusting, and you should be ashamed of yourselves.

What assurance do you want?

Microsoft could just do the same as Amazon did and, on spur of the moment, decide to axe the game without warning.

New World had a roadmap, and Amazon shuttered them right before their Season 10 offerings. The devs for the game never got to finish their roadmap. They had to scramble and make an edited "Sunset Roadmap". That's just the way these things work.

So no. Even if ZOS gave you an updated roadmap, there's no guarantee they'd be allowed to complete it. Microsoft CAN shut them down at any time, without warning.

So you really should be asking Microsoft what their long term plans are for the game, as they are the only ones who can say whether it will remain alive or not.

Mr_Arce88 · July 9

Radiate77 wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Just wanted to follow up here. We are still gathering information and asking questions on our end as well. We want to follow up as soon as we can. We have launch for Season 1 and focusing on that for today. It will take some time before we have any additional information to share. But as soon as we have it, you'll hear from us.

Kevin a lot of us are waiting to continue with ESO after these cuts, unsure if there is a future for the game. Many of us played both New World and Destiny 2, and have seen this spiral before, and it’s always delayed roadmaps that signal an end.

Reassuring us with a new, updated Roadmap would be needed sooner, rather than later.

We cannot afford to wait around.

If you played New World last year, you saw exactly the same path that ESO took just now. You know how it ends. You saw it. No point in lying to yourself even if you want to (I want to lie to myself too I know the feeling). In the end you will only be more hurt. It's sad, but it's inevitable.

Radiate77 · July 9

Mr_Arce88 wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Just wanted to follow up here. We are still gathering information and asking questions on our end as well. We want to follow up as soon as we can. We have launch for Season 1 and focusing on that for today. It will take some time before we have any additional information to share. But as soon as we have it, you'll hear from us.

Kevin a lot of us are waiting to continue with ESO after these cuts, unsure if there is a future for the game. Many of us played both New World and Destiny 2, and have seen this spiral before, and it’s always delayed roadmaps that signal an end.

Reassuring us with a new, updated Roadmap would be needed sooner, rather than later.

We cannot afford to wait around.

If you played New World last year, you saw exactly the same path that ESO took just now. You know how it ends. You saw it. No point in lying to yourself even if you want to (I want to lie to myself too I know the feeling). In the end you will only be more hurt. It's sad, but it's inevitable.

Yup. Don’t want to believe it.

Franchise408 · July 9

CptTekashi wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

We can’t have anything right now because the teams don’t even know what to do. Jess said they’ll get us an updated roadmap when they can.

I think Im just looking for reassurance more thn anything else..

this games been my life and many others since 2015 the thought of it slowly vanshing it an awful feeling.

I don't think this game is going anywhere. It's still a money maker.

Things might change for it, but I don't see it going away.

Pixiepumpkin · July 9

CptTekashi wrote: »

Does anyone else feel like we need an update of some sort that be a article stream etc ? everything just feels off man I don't know.

microsoft axing some very prevelent staff from zos ( Gina was kind of the face of ESO).

So many people are saying the games going in to maintenence mode others are saying it will be fine.

Like man I don't even know if to bother buying the new Tamriel Tomb that drops in an hour... whats the point if the games starting to slow down yano??

I stopped spending money on ESO over a year ago. I saw the writing on the wall back then. It is obvious I made the right decision then. What you do is up to you.

Malprave · July 9

CptTekashi wrote: »

Does anyone else feel like we need an update of some sort that be a article stream etc ? everything just feels off man I don't know.

microsoft axing some very prevelent staff from zos ( Gina was kind of the face of ESO).

So many people are saying the games going in to maintenence mode others are saying it will be fine.

Like man I don't even know if to bother buying the new Tamriel Tomb that drops in an hour... whats the point if the games starting to slow down yano??

This is going to sound harsh, but why did they need both Gina and Jessica? And why did Gina never return to doing livestreams from the office even when the pandemic was long past?

Gabriel_H · July 9

Estin wrote: »

I'm having a hard time finding numbers, but ZOS supposedly had ~300 employees in 2025 before the layoffs last year. I've seen reports that 200 people got cut during the 2025 layoffs, but am also seeing some say technically none were cut because of their union contract and were able to stay around until October with the chance of getting rehired. I've seen the number 25 being rehired, but there is no clear number. If we do just take the 25, and if no additional hires were done between October til now, you could say that ZOS had ~120 employees left after the 2025 cuts.

The vast majority of the layoffs last year centred around Firor's vanity project Blackbird. That was shuttered and the chunk of the staff were moved back to working on ESO (the 25 re-hires). So to say that ZOS lost people is correct, but ESO actually gained people.

Gabriel_H · July 9

allochthons wrote: »

Please stop asking for things like updated roadmaps. Yes, they lost half their team. But the layoffs are only half over.

No, they didn't lose half. The person who said that has already clarified they meant half the people currently on active workflows. That also implies a chunk of people were not on active workflows, which begs the question of were they needed, which then gives insight into why some have been laid off.

hiyde · July 9

Gabriel_H wrote: »

allochthons wrote: »

Please stop asking for things like updated roadmaps. Yes, they lost half their team. But the layoffs are only half over.

No, they didn't lose half. The person who said that has already clarified they meant half the people currently on active workflows. That also implies a chunk of people were not on active workflows, which begs the question of were they needed, which then gives insight into why some have been laid off.

While I know the story behind the mistaken "half" post, as the dust has settled, we know, according to the state of Maryland's WARN site, that 213 people were laid off from ZOS this week.

We know that 461 people joined the new ZOS Union in late 2024.

Assuming all full-time employees were in the union (and I have no idea), we'd indeed be in "half" territory.

Regardless of all of that, 213 + 62 last year is almost 300 ZOS employees gone in 12 months with "the other half" of MS cuts looming.

This isn't an ESO IS DEAD prophecy by me. But it's certainly serious, especially when the first communication from the ZOS team was to pull the roadmap so that they can remake it based on their new reality. That screams that this week was a serious hit to their capabilities to develop this game at the pace they had planned to.

LootAllTheStuff · July 9

Malprave wrote: »

CptTekashi wrote: »

Does anyone else feel like we need an update of some sort that be a article stream etc ? everything just feels off man I don't know.

microsoft axing some very prevelent staff from zos ( Gina was kind of the face of ESO).

So many people are saying the games going in to maintenence mode others are saying it will be fine.

Like man I don't even know if to bother buying the new Tamriel Tomb that drops in an hour... whats the point if the games starting to slow down yano??

This is going to sound harsh, but why did they need both Gina and Jessica? And why did Gina never return to doing livestreams from the office even when the pandemic was long past?

What does being in the office have to do with being productive? It might make some people happier and feel more productive, but others get more done from home on a regular basis.

Gabriel_H · July 9

hiyde wrote: »

Regardless of all of that, 213 + 62 last year is almost 300 ZOS employees gone in 12 months with "the other half" of MS cuts looming.

Not necessarily. The 213 is either loss OR reduction in work hours at a specific site. Given the nature of the restructuring it's entirely feasible that employee work could be being split between divisions, effectively say making an animator an employee across 3 studios, resulting in a reduction in hours at their original studio.

I don't know that is the case, but I also don't know that it isn't. Conflating this with last years layoffs is also misleading. Much of the centred around the shuttering of Firor's vanity project Blackbird. And because of the re-hires following that, the number of employees working on ESO actually increased, even though the total number of employees at ZOS decreased.

The full picture won't be clear for a few more weeks, and when it does clear up it won't be headline grabbing like layoffs.

hiyde · July 9

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Conflating this with last years layoffs is also misleading.

Come on now, I'm not conflating or misleading anyone.

According to the Maryland WARN government website:
ZOS laid of 62 people last year.
ZOS laid off 213 people this year.
In both cases, these layoffs were categorized as "Mass Layoff - No Recall"

This is on top of the large, seperate layoffs at Parent company Zenimax Media.

I've made no claims on how many members of the "ESO" team were lost because I don't know and none of us do.

And sure, a whole lot of things "might" be true and maybe we'll find out more as time goes by.

But the things I do know for sure, setting aside social posts from current or former employees and all the speculation from the rest of us:

- They just laid off 213 people and classified it "Mass Layoff - No Recall"
- It was impactful enough for them to invalidate the roadmap and say they'll publish a corrected version once they figure out what they are still capable of doing / how long it will now take.

I'm not shrieking ESO IS DEAD nor am I claiming "everything is fine".

*clearly* these cuts have dramatically affected at the very least, the timeline of their ability to develop for this game. That's not misleading anyone in any way. (though there is plenty of that going on around here).

Malprave · July 9

LootAllTheStuff wrote: »

Malprave wrote: »

CptTekashi wrote: »

Does anyone else feel like we need an update of some sort that be a article stream etc ? everything just feels off man I don't know.

microsoft axing some very prevelent staff from zos ( Gina was kind of the face of ESO).

So many people are saying the games going in to maintenence mode others are saying it will be fine.

Like man I don't even know if to bother buying the new Tamriel Tomb that drops in an hour... whats the point if the games starting to slow down yano??

This is going to sound harsh, but why did they need both Gina and Jessica? And why did Gina never return to doing livestreams from the office even when the pandemic was long past?

What does being in the office have to do with being productive? It might make some people happier and feel more productive, but others get more done from home on a regular basis.

Remote work can absolutely be more productive than office work and can improve quality of life, so naturally employees prefer it. But many aspects of working in the office are difficult or borderline impossible to replicate in that environment resulting in employers preferring in-office work. And, for better or worse, employers have the power right now in that industry.