BardokRedSnow wrote: »

I dont really even understand the sentiment people have about the company is just greedy, microsoft just wants to fill their own pockets etc

Where are people even getting that from, its not like Microsoft or zenimax are doing well and they just wanna squeeze out more money from Zos.

Not saying its ESO or Zos' fault either but at least be honest and understand that Microsoft has been in a downward spiral for a very long time, since Halo 4, and Bethesda also has not been doing great, and now eso's numbers are struggling to boot, and both are under the sinking ship that is Microsoft management.

All this to say that their issues are multilayered. And its not about greed its about mismanagement at the highest level, 14 layers of redundant leadership roles within microsoft itself, much less the game studios they acquired. Literally btw not a hyperbole, their own words.

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2026/07/06/resetting-xbox/

A lot of y'all need to read that.

Sounds like some corpo shilling going on here, lets dispel that. Lets not turn a blind eye on what's really going on here. People can act complacent and say "its not greed" but it is. Why is their CEO who made millions in profit, and 22% more than last year untouched but the guys who are working, some on the breadline some on merely subsistence level the first one to the hackblock? Why are stock members involved in creative endeavors, who then also profit on it at obscene levels but the person who creates our experience with love for the game and the craft the first ones who are let go in the name of profit? You don't the the CEO who made 96 million in ONE YEAR cant let go of at least 20 to help found the creative endeavor they are in charge of? Greed has led to mismanagement which leads to more greed which lead to even more mismanagement and so on and so on, kinda like a ouroboros huh. It all starts with greed, and stocks and profit till all the life, beauty and innovation is sucked out and those with lines pockets skip off into the sunset while those people who made years of our collective experience suffer.

To touch on your point, with some finality - The reason you ascertain big corps "are not doing well" is a problem born from their own unholy greed. But it's not those with hefty pockets who suffers.

NoireJin the Witchking wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

I dont really even understand the sentiment people have about the company is just greedy, microsoft just wants to fill their own pockets etc

Where are people even getting that from, its not like Microsoft or zenimax are doing well and they just wanna squeeze out more money from Zos.

Not saying its ESO or Zos' fault either but at least be honest and understand that Microsoft has been in a downward spiral for a very long time, since Halo 4, and Bethesda also has not been doing great, and now eso's numbers are struggling to boot, and both are under the sinking ship that is Microsoft management.

All this to say that their issues are multilayered. And its not about greed its about mismanagement at the highest level, 14 layers of redundant leadership roles within microsoft itself, much less the game studios they acquired. Literally btw not a hyperbole, their own words.

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2026/07/06/resetting-xbox/

A lot of y'all need to read that.

Sounds like some corpo shilling going on here, lets dispel that. Lets not turn a blind eye on what's really going on here. People can act complacent and say "its not greed" but it is. Why is their CEO who made millions in profit, and 22% more than last year untouched but the guys who are working, some on the breadline some on merely subsistence level the first one to the hackblock? Why are stock members involved in creative endeavors, who then also profit on it at obscene levels but the person who creates our experience with love for the game and the craft the first ones who are let go in the name of profit? You don't the the CEO who made 96 million in ONE YEAR cant let go of at least 20 to help found the creative endeavor they are in charge of? Greed has led to mismanagement which leads to more greed which lead to even more mismanagement and so on and so on, kinda like a ouroboros huh. It all starts with greed, and stocks and profit till all the life, beauty and innovation is sucked out and those with lines pockets skip off into the sunset while those people who made years of our collective experience suffer.

To touch on your point, with some finality - The reason you ascertain big corps "are not doing well" is a problem born from their own unholy greed. But it's not those with hefty pockets who suffers.

You didnt touch on any of it, just expressed a lot of emotion. Truth is no one here, and not you, know the truth of the business operations of zos, and no one here can actually say how necessary or not the action was.

All anyone can do is express their worry. Calling me a corporate shill for not immediately jumping the gun and saying its greed when xbox's losses was widely covered for over a decade now is a prime example of emotional arguing.

Arunei wrote: »

I want to preface by saying this situation is <words I'm not allowed to say>. The layoffs very much feel to me like the ones at the top looking for ways to push more money to themselves and I don't agree with them in the slightest.

However, the amount of "ESO's done for" I've seen around here and in places like Reddit is something I wanted to address. While it's awful for everyone who got laid off and it's no small number of people who were, at the same time things are too early for us to tell what the effects of these layoffs will be. It's entirely possible things could indeed be bad, but it's also entirely possible that things just slow down for a while but the game comes through on the other side of it all.

It's completely understandable to be worried about the future of the game, but at the same time troubling news can make emotions run high in the moment. Instead of getting worried about things that might not ever come to pass, I'd suggest everyone wait until we get the information Kevin mentioned them working on getting and the updated roadmap that Jessica has said will be coming.

And to clarify I don't try to mean to imply everyone should only be uber super optimistic, but rather that judgement should be withheld until we have more information on the state of things. No one has to or even should pretend everything is perfectly okay, because for those affected it isn't, but in regards to the game itself, being overly pessimistic won't do anything but make one more upset. So let's give it some time and see what we get told in the coming weeks (or however long it winds up being before we have more info).

How can you not be pessimistic? The game has been practically on life support for a few years now. The one bright spot was the class refresh and the hope it would breathe fresh life into the game but it’s been months now and all we’ve gotten is DKs. If they couldn’t get those updates out fast enough at full strength how could we possibly expect them to do it with half of their workforce gone overnight? The massive hit to morale alone would cripple productivity if nothing else. Idk about you but I am not waiting 5 years to see the next class refresh.

MasterSpatula wrote: »

I'm sickened right now, so I can't be trusted to make coherent and rational comments on this issue.

What I can say is that content of the last year-and-a-half has been wildly inadequate in terms of quality but especially quantity. There's literally no way today's action could make these failings anything but worse. I don't think it's irrational for those of us who love the game but very much needed it to do better to justify continuing to feel despair.

The forum isn't letting me edit for some reason, so for clarity's sake: I don't think it's irrational for those of us who love the game but very much needed it to do better to justify our continuing to play to feel depair.

Its impossible to know the effects until we hear it from Zos. Ive said before they should have just removed Subclassing. Ever since then all anyone has and will be worried about as long as it exists will be Classes. And now their refreshes which probably will take even longer, if they even happen at all. Just because they couldn't drop the broken Subclass system. They should have made new Classes instead. Easy money that sells itself with Classes. These layoffs are not going to help with that fact that we are only part way in to refreshes. Crucial refreshes now if a player base is to be maintained.

Morale is definitely lower in the community. I suppose we aren't meant to know what the big kahunas have going on in the budget or risk departments. I will say, when people try to tell you they can accomplish more with less, things are not the rose garden being portrayed.

Msoft said they want to focus and double down on elder scrolls and fallout...so its hard to imagine why this wouldnt include their most profitable elder scrolls game...

Imperial_Archmage wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

I want to preface by saying this situation is <words I'm not allowed to say>. The layoffs very much feel to me like the ones at the top looking for ways to push more money to themselves and I don't agree with them in the slightest.

However, the amount of "ESO's done for" I've seen around here and in places like Reddit is something I wanted to address. While it's awful for everyone who got laid off and it's no small number of people who were, at the same time things are too early for us to tell what the effects of these layoffs will be. It's entirely possible things could indeed be bad, but it's also entirely possible that things just slow down for a while but the game comes through on the other side of it all.

It's completely understandable to be worried about the future of the game, but at the same time troubling news can make emotions run high in the moment. Instead of getting worried about things that might not ever come to pass, I'd suggest everyone wait until we get the information Kevin mentioned them working on getting and the updated roadmap that Jessica has said will be coming.

And to clarify I don't try to mean to imply everyone should only be uber super optimistic, but rather that judgement should be withheld until we have more information on the state of things. No one has to or even should pretend everything is perfectly okay, because for those affected it isn't, but in regards to the game itself, being overly pessimistic won't do anything but make one more upset. So let's give it some time and see what we get told in the coming weeks (or however long it winds up being before we have more info).

How can you not be pessimistic? The game has been practically on life support for a few years now. The one bright spot was the class refresh and the hope it would breathe fresh life into the game but it’s been months now and all we’ve gotten is DKs. If they couldn’t get those updates out fast enough at full strength how could we possibly expect them to do it with half of their workforce gone overnight? The massive hit to morale alone would cripple productivity if nothing else. Idk about you but I am not waiting 5 years to see the next class refresh.

I'm withholding judgement because people have been saying from the start that the game is dying. We don't know how many people are in each department, so we can't say HOW much the layoffs are going to affect things. They will, no one is saying they won't, but people are acting like we have concrete numbers on how many people are left and we don't. I'm not sure if this will wind up getting snipped or not, but the claim that half of ESO's team was let go was unfortunately an exaggeration that really seems to have set people into a panic.

And I'm not saying the number of people who got laid off is a trivial one because it isn't, not by any stretch of the imagination. But we don't know how many people in each department there were (in regards to the part of the team Katherine was talking about). While the loss of a decent chunk of the team will obviously cause delays of some kind, without knowing how much of each actual group/team/department are currently still employed, it's just too soon to say things like the Class reworks taking five years now. Because we don't know exactly who and how many are working on that stuff, and for all we know it may only have been a couple of people working on it that are no longer with ZOS.

SilverBride wrote: »

What some may see as pessimism, others may see as reality. Pretending this isn't a serious situation that can negatively affect the direction this game will take now isn't going to stop it from happening.

Except I literally said in the OP that no one has to or should pretend everything is fine. I said things could end poorly. No one is saying otherwise. What people like me are saying is holding on to the view that this is it and refusing to at least wait and see what information we're given when it comes isn't helping. People can be apprehensive. People can be anxious and worried. Declaring that the game is dead hands down no argument doesn't change anything that's happened, but the sentiment can cause people to give up before we even know the actual scope of the situation.

The game being dead is not reality. The only time it becomes reality is when the day comes that we get told officially the servers are shutting down. That hasn't happened yet. It could, we don't know. But presenting it as a fact, again, doesn't help anyone. And again, I'm not saying people have to be stoic and can't be worried. I'm not saying people can't feel concern. I'm saying that we should wait and give ZOS a chance to look at things we have no access to, internal information and all that stuff. Things just might not be as bad as people are thinking.

I think the saying "Hope for the best but expect the worst" might come into play here. The only problem is people not seeming to hope for things being okay and not only expecting the worst but claiming it to be the truth.

And that's what I'm trying to say. Be worried. Be concerned. Be troubled. That's all valid, 100%. But don't be willing to throw in the towel when we have so little information to go on right now.

Faltasë wrote: »

I don't agree the toxic positivity over a net negative event in the entire lifetime of this MMO.

The people saying that it's on its deathbed are just pointing out the obvious, its less about it actually *dying* and more about the possibility that it can die due to people being laid off. There is more work for less people, which spells disaster no matter the way you look at it.

This exact event is when the saying "prepare for the worst, hope for the best" comes into play here. People need to just temper their expectations. Be hopeful, sure, but be ready when it does get canned, if it gets canned.

All game lifetimes are finite anyways, just have fun until its death.

I'm not sure where you're seeing toxic positivity. All myself and others have been saying is to wait and see what happens. We simply do not know the actual depth of the layoffs. We don't know how many people are left. We're looking at very surface numbers and trying to gauge how deep the pond goes even though we don't have the means to see where the bottom of it is. Again, the number of people laid off isn't insubstantial. But at the same time, we don't have any official numbers on how many people are left. It may truly not be as bad as things initially might seem.

As for the point on tempering expectations, that's exactly the point. Many who are (rightfully so, just to reiterate that point again) upset and concerned are tempering expectations. They're worried but they're not immediately giving in to "the game is dead". But there are also people who aren't tempering anything and have gone immediately to worst case scenario outcome.

And because some I think have missed the times I've said no one has to be bright and cheery and optimistic, well, there it is again. I am not saying people should act like it's not a big deal. It IS a big deal, to some extent. But I'm trying to explain that we don't know the extent yet. We do not have the information to say for certain. I'm not saying the game is a-okay and we're in the clear and people are worried over nothing, because I don't know that, just like no one knows if this is ESO's 'death' or not. We won't know much more of anything until we get some word from whoever winds up giving us an update.

I think the thing to remember is real people in a real world were affected by this.
While we may approve or disapprove of an individual, no one should find themselves out of work and struggling because a mega corp. wants more money.

As for the game being dead, I'm not there yet. However, Microsoft definitely took the "30" year MMO idea out behind the Barn and put a bullet in it.

My main concern (about the game) is that the plan will change or get rushed making for a much larger issue.
But in the end the people are what's important here. If the game falls there will be others. people cant be replaced so good luck to the crew looking and the ones remaining,

I don’t think toxic positivity is the right outlook. A significant portion of the staff got laid off last year and more yesterday, possibly more to come in the second wave. Game might not be dead but it’s sending it into a tail spin.

LunaFlora wrote: »

i agree, the pessimism really is not helpful.

i understand being upset, i am too, but ZOS still exists and supporting them and ESO helps them more than the negativity i see all over

It's understandable though. People view MMOs often as long-term investments for their time and money. Moreso than other genres.

The ball is in the dev's court now to assuage fears from their customer base.

But I hope they regroup and take care of themselves as people first. I've been in an office that laid off EVERYONE but me and one other person and my colleague spent the entire day crying. It's hard on people. Be kind during this time.

NoireJin the Witchking wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

NoireJin the Witchking wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

I dont really even understand the sentiment people have about the company is just greedy, microsoft just wants to fill their own pockets etc

Where are people even getting that from, its not like Microsoft or zenimax are doing well and they just wanna squeeze out more money from Zos.

Not saying its ESO or Zos' fault either but at least be honest and understand that Microsoft has been in a downward spiral for a very long time, since Halo 4, and Bethesda also has not been doing great, and now eso's numbers are struggling to boot, and both are under the sinking ship that is Microsoft management.

All this to say that their issues are multilayered. And its not about greed its about mismanagement at the highest level, 14 layers of redundant leadership roles within microsoft itself, much less the game studios they acquired. Literally btw not a hyperbole, their own words.

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2026/07/06/resetting-xbox/

A lot of y'all need to read that.

Sounds like some corpo shilling going on here, lets dispel that. Lets not turn a blind eye on what's really going on here. People can act complacent and say "its not greed" but it is. Why is their CEO who made millions in profit, and 22% more than last year untouched but the guys who are working, some on the breadline some on merely subsistence level the first one to the hackblock? Why are stock members involved in creative endeavors, who then also profit on it at obscene levels but the person who creates our experience with love for the game and the craft the first ones who are let go in the name of profit? You don't the the CEO who made 96 million in ONE YEAR cant let go of at least 20 to help found the creative endeavor they are in charge of? Greed has led to mismanagement which leads to more greed which lead to even more mismanagement and so on and so on, kinda like a ouroboros huh. It all starts with greed, and stocks and profit till all the life, beauty and innovation is sucked out and those with lines pockets skip off into the sunset while those people who made years of our collective experience suffer.

To touch on your point, with some finality - The reason you ascertain big corps "are not doing well" is a problem born from their own unholy greed. But it's not those with hefty pockets who suffers.

You didnt touch on any of it, just expressed a lot of emotion. Truth is no one here, and not you, know the truth of the business operations of zos, and no one here can actually say how necessary or not the action was.

All anyone can do is express their worry. Calling me a corporate shill for not immediately jumping the gun and saying its greed when xbox's losses was widely covered for over a decade now is a prime example of emotional arguing.

You're seeing what you want to see, while disregarding any objective points as hysteria. A typical tactic for typical folk. A person who makes 96million in ONE YEAR is THE ISSUE. Not loss of revenue, not profit margins not mismanagement. problems of which are born of greed and perpetuated by greed. The reason 98% of the rest of the world suffer is because a handful of people can make millions to trillions of dollars in one year, something most of humanity cannot do for hundreds of generations.

If gaming or wider media is suffering, its suffering ONLY because of corpo greed. The way forward is we start with those who outpace yours and mine entire lineage for generations countless while our mediums are drained dry and pillaged till they are soulless husk created by unfeeling and unliving algorithms, same predatory systems predicated by Microslop. Whether its force feeding us GenAI or "cutting back" art forms, to pull the wool over your eyes. The answer is the same, its not us, its not the employees, Its the Ceos and stockholders. We should start from there, and everything else will follow.

Irony

Your so called objective points is just calling everything you disagree with greed and using capslock.

Nothing here is factual or even worth addressing. Bottom line, Zenimax, Bethesda, its a business, and no amount of yelling kicking or screaming at corporations is gonna change that. The one thing you can count on is that every business needs money. That you think its greed or a bad decision is irrelevant, what is relevant is the next statement zos makes on how they're carrying on from here.

You wanna protest and call it greed, ok well what will you do about it. Getting emotional and calling them microslop isnt gonna bring back employees, or keep the lights on.

Fata1moose wrote: »

I don’t think toxic positivity is the right outlook. A significant portion of the staff got laid off last year and more yesterday, possibly more to come in the second wave. Game might not be dead but it’s sending it into a tail spin.

I don't mean any disrespect but people are using "toxic positivity" either without seeming to understand the definition, ignoring the numerous times I've outright said people have every right to be worried and upset, or both. Telling people to wait until we have more information because right now we have practically none is not toxic positivity.

From Wikipedia: "Toxic positivity is a "pressure to stay upbeat no matter how dire one's circumstance is", which may prevent emotional coping by feeling otherwise natural emotions.[2] Toxic positivity happens when people believe that negative thoughts about anything should be avoided. Even in response to events which normally would evoke sadness, such as loss or hardships, positivity is encouraged as a means to cope, but tends to overlook and dismiss true expression.[3]"

I have said over and over that not only are people right to be worried, that it's completely valid to be. I've said very plainly we shouldn't try to act like this isn't a big deal or that it won't have an impact on things. I've stated several times that yes, things COULD be bad. I have acknowledged all of this.

Suggesting that people just wait before deciding to jump to the worst case scenario isn't toxic positivity, especially not when have have so little information to base ANYTHING on right now.

This is by far the bleakest it's ever felt for me. I feel like the only way the game survives is with people making ironclad fanbase around it.

PzTnT wrote: »

My own take on this is that microsoft is preparing for TES 6 and that said game is planned to be something akin to fallout 76 with a lot of online stuff. I'm not sure anything has really been said about it to say its not other than that its supposed to be a classic bethesda game. But its also somewhat known that Todd Howard wanted some way to sell more stuff in the games, so turning it into a quasi live service would fit that.

So they could be preparing to shut down/maintenance mode ESO in order to get more players to hop on TES 6 when it releases. Just gotta do it far enough ahead of time that its largely forgotten in the public eye by the time TES 6 releases.

But that's just my own pessimistic conspiracy theory.

This is stupid of them. I'm not interested in TES VI. Not interested in Skyrim eithet. I used to be, but why limit myself to one area when I can travel all of Tamriel.

Fine by me, I have no interest in a debate over morality when discussing a business, whose only goal is to earn money.

This isnt a place to discuss yalls gripes with capitalism, its not going to change that zenimax and bethesda, and microsoft are businesses first and foremost.