SUPRISE ! People dont like VENGEANCE

AvalonRanger · July 6

AvalonRanger wrote: »

fizzybeef wrote: »

On the playstation servers Vengeance never had a single bar yet this event.
This game mode is so empty and dead, i played it for 2 hours - the chat was empty, maybe like 10 people ran arround, the fights were slow and unenjoyable.

The pose my characcter is doing is portraying my mood when i think about why this game mode is still being pushed and invested in, when it is literally dead on arrival:

Instead of pushing 900 people cap with a dead play mode, it would be better to try to fix GH and maybe get a cap of 600 people instead of 900.

Get a mix of both, instead of giving up GH.

And just to state : im not against having Vengeance as a second option aside of GH (wich will be happening in the future anyway).

But i can tell already vengeance wont be populated because people dont like it. They dont even play it when its only one option.

If people dislike "Vengeance" type of game design, then basically ESO PVP is still minority contents.

First of all, I'm not ESO PVP fan. And I've been thinking that ESO PVP fan is basically fake PVPvers.
Most of ESO PVPver just want to display their building superiority against opponent players.

That's not real PVP game design. If we can't enjoy the contents without custom building or set equipment,
then it's not PVP game anymore.

Check the BattleField PVP playing movie at the Youtube. There're not much super wide range building system like ESO
It's a same "just rifle" regardless newbie or high ranking player. But it has plenty of playing style at there.
BF is simple action war game, but very deeper tactical game also. That's the true PVP sprit.

If the PVP game become "boring" without specific equipment or CP or werewolf, then
ESO PVP game design itself is boring.

BardokRedSnow · July 6

This thread has seen more pvp than Vengeance has over the holiday weekend.

SneaK · July 6

@Stamicka had they sold Vengeance on the premise of balance instead of performance I’m sure a lot of people would feel differently about it. However that’s not what happened, and none of the feedback they were seeking felt like that was the focus, it was all “is it fun, are you having big battles, do you enjoy the rewards”. I guarantee had vengeance been wrapped in a bow that said BALANCE, they would have got actual feedback from long term PvPers that could have improved the game mode.

You are right, pre one Tamriel was the best for Cyrodiil. I’ve said that forever too. I personally think most of that is cause there’s no faction loyalty anymore and playing Cyro objectively has suffered from that. But the other part of it is now that people have had a taste of the power that can be had, they will never look back. CoD tried to do this, Halo tried to do this, two of the most successful FPS games ever, and it didn’t work. Remastered CoD4, Masterchief Collection, neither caught on like the wildfire they had hoped, it’s just flat out a new generation of gamers who are sold on the fast flashy PvP. And it’s hard to go back in time and play a game even 1mph slower than what you’re used to. Just my opinion, but it’s happened in the triple A arena and while maybe not a flop, no one is playing those games anymore.

amiiegee · July 6

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

This thread has seen more pvp than Vengeance has over the holiday weekend.

This is unfortnatily true and it shows that Zos did split the pvp community even more with the descission to
A: develope vengeance instead of working on fixing GH
B: selling us vengeance as a test to collect data, baiting people to play it with pursuits and sending surveys to collect feedback
C: releasing Vengeance as permanent even when it was only supposed to be a test, splitting the community into two different campaigns as soon GH was full -> and one campaign was Vengeance wich people refused to play + Not releasing the survey feedback data, as they did in the first test ~ because it was NEGATIVE
but also still pushing vengeance.

There have been so many mistakes made, only positive actions as to bring back Blackreach quite fast so people were not forced to play the despited game mode Vengeance anymore.

Honestly i wonder who in a deciding position is greenflagging all these projects nobody is asking for, there is time and money floating into it but even on the most populated servers it’s highly unpopular and on the lower populated servers it’s just unused.

Stamicka · July 6

SneaK wrote: »

@Stamicka had they sold Vengeance on the premise of balance instead of performance I’m sure a lot of people would feel differently about it. However that’s not what happened, and none of the feedback they were seeking felt like that was the focus, it was all “is it fun, are you having big battles, do you enjoy the rewards”. I guarantee had vengeance been wrapped in a bow of that said BALANCE, they would have got actual feedback from long term PvPers that could have improved the game mode.

You are right, pre one Tamriel was the best for Cyrodiil. I’ve said that forever too. I personally think most of that is cause there’s no faction loyalty anymore and playing Cyro objectively has suffered from that. But the other part of it is now that people have had a taste of the power that can be had, they will never look back. CoD tried to do this, Halo tried to do this, two of the most successful FPS games ever, and it didn’t work. Remastered CoD4, Masterchief Collection, neither caught on like the wildfire they had hoped, it’s just flat out a new generation of gamers who are sold on the fast flashy PvP. And it’s hard to go back in time and play a game even 1mph slower than what you’re used to. Just my opinion, but it’s happened in the triple A arena and while maybe not a flop, no one is playing those games anymore.

I think you’re making a good point in the second part of the post. It is definitely possible that the ship has sailed and the ESO playerbase is just too different now to have Pre-One Tamriel like PvP be successful. It’s definitely something to consider.

I’ve really said all I could on the topic by now though. To me, you guys just want to give PvPers a new room in a burning building. That’s basically how I see the addition of anything that comes out under current balance.

I’ve got one foot out the door with ESO anyway and I’m really the last one standing out of all of my friends. I value fairness in games and my friends did too.

It’s probably the case that ESO just isn’t for me now and it doesn’t make sense for me to push for fairness in a game where the players want something else. Anyway, I’m probably done posting text walls on this subject from now on.

Eldovar · July 6

Stamicka wrote: »

One thing I find interesting is that there used to be more overlap between people from actual competitive gaming backgrounds and ESO players. You can even look at SypherPK who went on to play competitive Fortnite, but I know quite a few old players like this personally. One Tamriel was the last straw for most of these people. Many moved on to Overwatch, MOBAs, and Valorant. This overlap is much more uncommon now from my experience. The community is much different now and not in a good way.

Anyway long story short, my thoughts are that ESO needs to bring in new crowds and I think it can be done without losing too many existing players. Small balance tweaks won’t cut it. It’s a slow death otherwise… as we see.

Good point. I am a very competitive player. I did thouands of matches in Overwatch since launch, I play also Rivals, COD, Battlefield and I've been last player standing many times in battle royale games.

I never like PvP in ESO but I do like Vengeance because those templates bring balance across the board. I would even play battleground a lot more if they would introduce those templates, role queue and strict MMR over there because you then have a competitive environment where aim, positioning, priority picks, teamplay and class balance matters and not the meta build of the month. But that won't happen, and that is why a game like Rivals pulls in 80 000+ concurrent PvP players on a simple weekday, and ESO does not.

But like someone said, this thread is pretty pointless by now. Vengeance is here to stay. Soon there will be also the smaller zone. And there will be battlegrounds, Imperial, Grey Host and maybe Blackreach. So there are more options to pick from for every type of player out there, which is a good thing. I am pretty sure that during this year PvP event that most players who usually don't PvP go to Vengeance we get back the huge battles from the first tests.

But usually PvP in 'gear/loot' games usually doesn't attract much people. I play Diablo 4 as well and there is also never people in the two 2 PvP zones. And if there are it are usually players who have the most OP meta set of the season, putting their difficulty in World Tier 1 and one shot starting players. It's those people that ruin the whole PvP scene in any game because in their head 'more time spend' should always equal 'more advantage'. Skill is irrelevant for them, only hours count.

amiiegee · July 6

Eldovar wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

One thing I find interesting is that there used to be more overlap between people from actual competitive gaming backgrounds and ESO players. You can even look at SypherPK who went on to play competitive Fortnite, but I know quite a few old players like this personally. One Tamriel was the last straw for most of these people. Many moved on to Overwatch, MOBAs, and Valorant. This overlap is much more uncommon now from my experience. The community is much different now and not in a good way.

Anyway long story short, my thoughts are that ESO needs to bring in new crowds and I think it can be done without losing too many existing players. Small balance tweaks won’t cut it. It’s a slow death otherwise… as we see.

Good point. I am a very competitive player. I did thouands of matches in Overwatch since launch, I play also Rivals, COD, Battlefield and I've been last player standing many times in battle royale games.

I never like PvP in ESO but I do like Vengeance because those templates bring balance across the board. I would even play battleground a lot more if they would introduce those templates, role queue and strict MMR over there because you then have a competitive environment where aim, positioning, priority picks, teamplay and class balance matters and not the meta build of the month. But that won't happen, and that is why a game like Rivals pulls in 80 000+ concurrent PvP players on a simple weekday, and ESO does not.

But like someone said, this thread is pretty pointless by now. Vengeance is here to stay. Soon there will be also the smaller zone. And there will be battlegrounds, Imperial, Grey Host and maybe Blackreach. So there are more options to pick from for every type of player out there, which is a good thing. I am pretty sure that during this year PvP event that most players who usually don't PvP go to Vengeance we get back the huge battles from the first tests.

But usually PvP in 'gear/loot' games usually doesn't attract much people. I play Diablo 4 as well and there is also never people in the two 2 PvP zones. And if there are it are usually players who have the most OP meta set of the season, putting their difficulty in World Tier 1 and one shot starting players. It's those people that ruin the whole PvP scene in any game because in their head 'more time spend' should always equal 'more advantage'. Skill is irrelevant for them, only hours count.

Why would vengeance be here to stay?

You can see the old established campaigns were easily removed (br, u50 campaign) and years ago in no proc the completely ruleset was also changed in a while.

If Zos can see the data & realising vengeance is unpopular, why does it need to stay, why are still ressources floating into it and it’s being updated?

Artem_gig · July 6

Surprise, don't lie! Normal PvP is dark, and it's not even PvP because you're not fighting the player, you're fighting their build. Vengeance is at least honest.

Iriidius · July 6

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Iriidius wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

“Boycotted the tests” lol it’s not a boycott if it isn’t organized, people just don’t wanna be forced to play something that is not what they chose to pay for

Nobody is forced to play Vengeance as there is enaugh capacity now after you not only kept GreyHost but also got Blackreach back. But you still try to convince everyone that vengeance is completely dead. Why would you do that if you goal isnt to discourage supporters from playing there and make ZOS close the campaign so the remaining have to play GreyHost or quit PvP. You are the ones trying to force others to play your way.

Brother that post is almost two weeks old, Im not trying anything, we in Greyhost chillin n killin

That yall still trying to scrap about people saying its dead says more than I ever could.

It says much more that you guys keep bumping threads claiming Vengeance is empty and ZoS should remove it despite not being restricted by it after getting even your dead spare campaign
back than Vengeance players not wanting their campaign lobbyed away.

You claim being in GreyHost not trying anything yet wrote you went around keeps in Vengeance to see it was ghost town in another post after the one „2 weeks ago“.

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Sunday in PCNA it was empty while GH was locked by 2pm, I even went around the keeps to see, ran outside, it was a ghost town

Dunno when vengeance allegedly hits its stride but its not close to Greyhost's at all.

You complain I wrote 10 days later but keep bumping this discussion for weeks to prevent people forgetting there is a campaign you want get removed even if they could just ignore it.
I had written conment earlier but not send to not revive dead discussion but then you revived it anyway with your buddies complaining about getting coerced to play Vengeance again.
Vengeance haters made it since first test when they were outnumbered that they expect others to shut up so they can be the only ones voicing their opinion about Vengeance.

fizzybeef · July 6

It is simple a fact vengeance is not populated and its a shame the pvp community wich is a niche anyway got more splitted.
There shouldnt be vengeance players and GH players, it´s one community.

The game itself has a low population, the pvp side is a niche and this is splitted even more but with a game mode wich even less people enjoy.

A lot of people said, they like vengeance because its easier for them to start with pvp. But instead of playing with training wheels they should rather invest the time to get in touch with the eso build system and try to improve to become better players - to keep up in the propper cyrodiil.

And for the learning we had the U50 campaigns and have battlegrounds.

Alharion · July 6

There are also other factors: don’t announce new classes anymore or be too quiet about future content, even reduce it, you can be sure that people will consider the game as dead and go see elsewhere!

Alharion · July 6

PS ; but here I think that what’s happening with TESO and Microsoft played a lot on the image of TESO and made players completely lose trust in TESO.

Aces-High-82 · July 6

I'd probably play Vengeance If there was some balance. Rn you are gimping ys big time If do not play as DK or NB.

FENGRUSH · July 6

Vengeance is the result of many years of neglect in cyrodiil. If they invested half the time into the main campaign there would be a much better looking path forward already on a more functional cyrodiil.

The leading support for vengeance is people that do not main or focus on pvp. Therefore they aren't even there much at all. Thus, it has very low numbers.

Vengeance was made by people that dont pvp, for people that dont pvp. For a studio already in a tough situation, its an absolutely horrible choice. But its here to stay.

Corporate will follow up with telemetry data supporting this initiative because leadership would look awful if they close it down. They'll spin it as this is just the beginning while pvpers stare blankly and a couple dozen pvers validate the project in favor of balance and not dying to an OP class/set that the very same team making this project also created.

ceruulean · July 6

ESO's reputation for being an unbalanced, unfair pvp game has made it unlikely that pvp players will come, because they've moved on to Valorant, Marvel Rivals, and even GW2. The only thing you can do is wait or use word of mouth to let them know that Vengeance exists, or if the devs publically state they will focus on bringing a more fair and equal pvp environment and deliver on it.

SneaK · July 6

ceruulean wrote: »

ESO's reputation for being an unbalanced, unfair pvp game has made it unlikely that pvp players will come, because they've moved on to Valorant, Marvel Rivals, and even GW2. The only thing you can do is wait or use word of mouth to let them know that Vengeance exists, or if the devs publically state they will focus on bringing a more fair and equal pvp environment and deliver on it.

Unfortunately ESO has zero reputation regarding PvP, bad/fair/good no one on the outside looking in would even know this game has PvP. They’d have to go back to beta or launch videos where it was actually marketed. ZOS abandoned the PvP community long ago. Feels akin to an estranged parent trying to find their kid they gave up for adoption.

spartaxoxo · July 6

SneaK wrote: »

ceruulean wrote: »

ESO's reputation for being an unbalanced, unfair pvp game has made it unlikely that pvp players will come, because they've moved on to Valorant, Marvel Rivals, and even GW2. The only thing you can do is wait or use word of mouth to let them know that Vengeance exists, or if the devs publically state they will focus on bringing a more fair and equal pvp environment and deliver on it.

Unfortunately ESO has zero reputation regarding PvP, bad/fair/good no one on the outside looking in would even know this game has PvP. They’d have to go back to beta or launch videos where it was actually marketed. ZOS abandoned the PvP community long ago. Feels akin to an estranged parent trying to find their kid they gave up for adoption.

It has a bad reputation as an imbalanced gank fest.

Eldovar · July 6

fizzybeef wrote: »

It is simple a fact vengeance is not populated and its a shame the pvp community wich is a niche anyway got more splitted.
There shouldnt be vengeance players and GH players, it´s one community.

The game itself has a low population, the pvp side is a niche and this is splitted even more but with a game mode wich even less people enjoy.

A lot of people said, they like vengeance because its easier for them to start with pvp. But instead of playing with training wheels they should rather invest the time to get in touch with the eso build system and try to improve to become better players - to keep up in the propper cyrodiil.

And for the learning we had the U50 campaigns and have battlegrounds.

And soon we all can start fighting about the 3rd new mode they are making who people who hate it, and people who love it.

ToddIngram · July 6

Eldovar wrote: »

fizzybeef wrote: »

It is simple a fact vengeance is not populated and its a shame the pvp community wich is a niche anyway got more splitted.
There shouldnt be vengeance players and GH players, it´s one community.

The game itself has a low population, the pvp side is a niche and this is splitted even more but with a game mode wich even less people enjoy.

A lot of people said, they like vengeance because its easier for them to start with pvp. But instead of playing with training wheels they should rather invest the time to get in touch with the eso build system and try to improve to become better players - to keep up in the propper cyrodiil.

And for the learning we had the U50 campaigns and have battlegrounds.

And soon we all can start fighting about the 3rd new mode they are making who people who hate it, and people who love it.

Today's news has got me spooked and worried. Requesting a refund on a recent purchase as soon as I get off this forum because I have no confidence I'll ever get to take advantage of the purchase.

blktauna · July 6

fizzybeef wrote: »

It is simple a fact vengeance is not populated and its a shame the pvp community wich is a niche anyway got more splitted.
There shouldnt be vengeance players and GH players, it´s one community.

Its never been one community. And those that enjoy Vengence are very unlikely to be in GH ever, even if Vengence vanishes. Much like the duelers and BG crew are in BGs and Bergama most of the time.

A lot of people said, they like vengeance because its easier for them to start with pvp. But instead of playing with training wheels they should rather invest the time to get in touch with the eso build system and try to improve to become better players - to keep up in the propper cyrodiil.

Why? If the people that like that mode and enjoy it, then it is a success.
If they had wanted to "improve and be better players" they would be doing that. Instead they are playing what they like.

And for the learning we had the U50 campaigns and have battlegrounds.

BGs are hardly beginner friendly and U50 was stacked with u50 specialists in gold equipment. Get it into your heads that if folks wanted the GH experience they'd be in GH getting it. Many people are happy to have an alternate where they can participte and have fun in a way they prefer

BardokRedSnow · July 6

Iriidius wrote: »

It says much more that you guys keep bumping threads claiming Vengeance is empty

Iriidius wrote: »

You complain I wrote 10 days later but

Do you see the irony here.

Anyway I don't think I need to participate here any longer, given recent news and recent player participation its kind of pointless

@ away

Iriidius · July 6

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Iriidius wrote: »

It says much more that you guys keep bumping threads claiming Vengeance is empty

Iriidius wrote: »

You complain I wrote 10 days later but

Do you see the irony here.

Anyway I don't think I need to participate here any longer, given recent news and recent player participation its kind of pointless

@ away

The irony is a hater reviving dead discussions than complaining when someone else answers a few days after post but shortly after reviving it. Than the hater takes 2 quotes out of context to blame someone else for bumping the discussion.
Now you announce to leave this discussion to blame me for it but in s few days you will be back complaining about vengeance again.

ceruulean · July 6

SneaK wrote: »

Unfortunately ESO has zero reputation regarding PvP, bad/fair/good no one on the outside looking in would even know this game has PvP. They’d have to go back to beta or launch videos where it was actually marketed. ZOS abandoned the PvP community long ago. Feels akin to an estranged parent trying to find their kid they gave up for adoption.

There was a streamer called Arrowli who came from GW2 to try eso pvp. He likes playing ranger/bow builds. He joined during U49 where ranged builds were ineffective against overpowered DKs with 40k resist protective jewelry rife in stormhaven. Gave ESO PvP a shot for 2 months, concluded PvP is horribly imbalanced, and moved on to other games like BDO where at least ranged builds are viable. So actually, ESO's PvP reputation is negative and below zero.

My only recommendation is Vengeance these days. I tell other players to go there if they actually want fair systems and fights.

fizzybeef · July 7

ceruulean wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Unfortunately ESO has zero reputation regarding PvP, bad/fair/good no one on the outside looking in would even know this game has PvP. They’d have to go back to beta or launch videos where it was actually marketed. ZOS abandoned the PvP community long ago. Feels akin to an estranged parent trying to find their kid they gave up for adoption.

There was a streamer called Arrowli who came from GW2 to try eso pvp. He likes playing ranger/bow builds. He joined during U49 where ranged builds were ineffective against overpowered DKs with 40k resist protective jewelry rife in stormhaven. Gave ESO PvP a shot for 2 months, concluded PvP is horribly imbalanced, and moved on to other games like BDO where at least ranged builds are viable. So actually, ESO's PvP reputation is negative and below zero.

My only recommendation is Vengeance these days. I tell other players to go there if they actually want fair systems and fights.

The system started to suck with the hybridastion and later on with subclassing.
Before all sort of builds were viable.

SaffronCitrusflower · July 7

ceruulean wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Unfortunately ESO has zero reputation regarding PvP, bad/fair/good no one on the outside looking in would even know this game has PvP. They’d have to go back to beta or launch videos where it was actually marketed. ZOS abandoned the PvP community long ago. Feels akin to an estranged parent trying to find their kid they gave up for adoption.

There was a streamer called Arrowli who came from GW2 to try eso pvp. He likes playing ranger/bow builds. He joined during U49 where ranged builds were ineffective against overpowered DKs with 40k resist protective jewelry rife in stormhaven. Gave ESO PvP a shot for 2 months, concluded PvP is horribly imbalanced, and moved on to other games like BDO where at least ranged builds are viable. So actually, ESO's PvP reputation is negative and below zero.

My only recommendation is Vengeance these days. I tell other players to go there if they actually want fair systems and fights.

So?

Some guy who isn't familiar with ESO spent a brief time in game and drew uninformed conclusions from lack of experience.

Your crusade against PvP is revealing.

ceruulean · July 8

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

ceruulean wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Unfortunately ESO has zero reputation regarding PvP, bad/fair/good no one on the outside looking in would even know this game has PvP. They’d have to go back to beta or launch videos where it was actually marketed. ZOS abandoned the PvP community long ago. Feels akin to an estranged parent trying to find their kid they gave up for adoption.

There was a streamer called Arrowli who came from GW2 to try eso pvp. He likes playing ranger/bow builds. He joined during U49 where ranged builds were ineffective against overpowered DKs with 40k resist protective jewelry rife in stormhaven. Gave ESO PvP a shot for 2 months, concluded PvP is horribly imbalanced, and moved on to other games like BDO where at least ranged builds are viable. So actually, ESO's PvP reputation is negative and below zero.

My only recommendation is Vengeance these days. I tell other players to go there if they actually want fair systems and fights.

So?

Some guy who isn't familiar with ESO spent a brief time in game and drew uninformed conclusions from lack of experience.

Your crusade against PvP is revealing.

Why accuse me of being against pvp? I'm in Vengeance pvping every day lol. Tried out IC and BGs on an old necro build, found some unkillable werewolves that can run faster than you, sorcs that can streak 3 times in a row, got bored and logged out.

This is ESO's pvp reputation since 2015:

If you like PVP that is player skill based then I would say GW2. If you like PVP that is gear based, then ESO.

ESO has a greater gear/level gap in all respects -takes longer to level, gear scaling is more extreme, scaling and acquisition of abilities and other class building aspects is more extreme. If you don't mind going through all that to be competitive then this point is not relevant, but for me its a bit of a pain to be far behind the curve unless I really grind.

ESO has never been known to have fair or balanced pvp. The most notable point in that thread is that Cyrodiil is fun and the barrier to entry is high. Although the terrible balance is we see is a 2025-2026 problem.

https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/429463/gw2-vs-eso

JohnRingo · July 8

You are right, pre one

ceruulean wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Unfortunately ESO has zero reputation regarding PvP, bad/fair/good no one on the outside looking in would even know this game has PvP. They’d have to go back to beta or launch videos where it was actually marketed. ZOS abandoned the PvP community long ago. Feels akin to an estranged parent trying to find their kid they gave up for adoption.

There was a streamer called Arrowli who came from GW2 to try eso pvp. He likes playing ranger/bow builds. He joined during U49 where ranged builds were ineffective against overpowered DKs with 40k resist protective jewelry rife in stormhaven. Gave ESO PvP a shot for 2 months, concluded PvP is horribly imbalanced, and moved on to other games like BDO where at least ranged builds are viable. So actually, ESO's PvP reputation is negative and below zero.

My only recommendation is Vengeance these days. I tell other players to go there if they actually want fair systems and fights.

Another interpretation of the very same story: Arrowli, the GW2 God of the Ranger build, attempted ESO PvP and his GW2 ranger/bow ESO equivalent build got body bagged by PvP Vets and then he rage quit and declared it "horribly imbalanced". That's the way I heard it anyway

reazea · July 8

ceruulean wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

ceruulean wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Unfortunately ESO has zero reputation regarding PvP, bad/fair/good no one on the outside looking in would even know this game has PvP. They’d have to go back to beta or launch videos where it was actually marketed. ZOS abandoned the PvP community long ago. Feels akin to an estranged parent trying to find their kid they gave up for adoption.

There was a streamer called Arrowli who came from GW2 to try eso pvp. He likes playing ranger/bow builds. He joined during U49 where ranged builds were ineffective against overpowered DKs with 40k resist protective jewelry rife in stormhaven. Gave ESO PvP a shot for 2 months, concluded PvP is horribly imbalanced, and moved on to other games like BDO where at least ranged builds are viable. So actually, ESO's PvP reputation is negative and below zero.

My only recommendation is Vengeance these days. I tell other players to go there if they actually want fair systems and fights.

So?

Some guy who isn't familiar with ESO spent a brief time in game and drew uninformed conclusions from lack of experience.

Your crusade against PvP is revealing.

Why accuse me of being against pvp? I'm in Vengeance pvping every day lol. Tried out IC and BGs on an old necro build, found some unkillable werewolves that can run faster than you, sorcs that can streak 3 times in a row, got bored and logged out.

This is ESO's pvp reputation since 2015:

If you like PVP that is player skill based then I would say GW2. If you like PVP that is gear based, then ESO.

ESO has a greater gear/level gap in all respects -takes longer to level, gear scaling is more extreme, scaling and acquisition of abilities and other class building aspects is more extreme. If you don't mind going through all that to be competitive then this point is not relevant, but for me its a bit of a pain to be far behind the curve unless I really grind.

ESO has never been known to have fair or balanced pvp. The most notable point in that thread is that Cyrodiil is fun and the barrier to entry is high. Although the terrible balance is we see is a 2025-2026 problem.

https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/429463/gw2-vs-eso

Every post from you lately seems to be a pro vengeance diatribe. That's being anti PvP. Vengeance will only hasten the closure of real PvP in ESO.

LadyGP · July 8

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Vengeance is the result of many years of neglect in cyrodiil. If they invested half the time into the main campaign there would be a much better looking path forward already on a more functional cyrodiil.

The leading support for vengeance is people that do not main or focus on pvp. Therefore they aren't even there much at all. Thus, it has very low numbers.

Vengeance was made by people that dont pvp, for people that dont pvp. For a studio already in a tough situation, its an absolutely horrible choice. But its here to stay.

Corporate will follow up with telemetry data supporting this initiative because leadership would look awful if they close it down. They'll spin it as this is just the beginning while pvpers stare blankly and a couple dozen pvers validate the project in favor of balance and not dying to an OP class/set that the very same team making this project also created.

Yup, and its decisions like this that lead this continued spiral of losing players year after year.. to now being in the situation we are in.

Is truly sad.

ceruulean · July 8

Lmao what real PvP does ESO have? Stormhaven dueling where it's segregated into DK vs DK, WW v WW, sorc v sorc, cro v cro, NB v plar because there are clear mathematical loser classes? No functioning MMR/ELO system? Constantly lowered population caps in Gray Host? I'm not against PvP. I love the Veterancy system and it has provided incentives to grind. Vengeance is balanced and there's more interesting builds and tradeoffs than in Grey Host, IC, or BGs. You can still run healers, brusiers and brawlers, AoE or single target damage dealers, ranged burst or a turn and burn vanguard. There are still sorcs and arcanists that streak into hills and escape, but it's less silly than in live Cyrodiil. Oh and you still have people complaining that 6 defenders are holding up a 10 man group, or 2 players wiping off 5 defenders on the front porch of bleakers, but even that is more enjoyable than getting 1 shot by packs of corrosive dks and werewolves.