Thank you for the Vestige difficulty mode.

Getsugatenso · July 3

Thanks for the difficulty mode, I love Vestige mode, I'm doing quests and exploration like never before.This video demonstrates how good this is for the game.

https://youtu.be/auYb0aDUEmI?si=Qu57o8Hj6aLFIY50

SerafinaWaterstar · July 3

For some.

Vonnegut2506 · July 3

Some people really enjoy the challenge difficulties; other people just like to complain about it even if they don't have to participate.

CameraBeardThePirate · July 3

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

For some.

It is good for the game period. You either benefit from it, or it doesn't affect you at all.

agelonestar · July 3

Is this a bot thread?

Luneca · July 4

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

Some people really enjoy the challenge difficulties; other people just like to complain about it even if they don't have to participate.

So if they don't like an HP sponge with one shots, that doesn't bring anything new or a transformative experience, they just like to complain?

If I want to stick to doing the same thing with less and less effectiveness per unit of time as the game drags on, I'd just go fire siege.

Vonnegut2506 · July 4

Luneca wrote: »

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

Some people really enjoy the challenge difficulties; other people just like to complain about it even if they don't have to participate.

So if they don't like an HP sponge with one shots, that doesn't bring anything new or a transformative experience, they just like to complain?

If I want to stick to doing the same thing with less and less effectiveness per unit of time as the game drags on, I'd just go fire siege.

Are you seriously trying to say you have not seen the threads complaining that challenge difficulty even exists? Why does someone else enjoying the extra challenge in a video game bother some people? I get that there is a contingent that just wants everything to die if they so much as aggro it, but some people actually enjoy combat that is not ridiculously easy. Anyone that has tried Vestige difficulty knows that almost nothing "one shots" anyone with an actual build.

spartaxoxo · July 4

Luneca wrote: »

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

Some people really enjoy the challenge difficulties; other people just like to complain about it even if they don't have to participate.

So if they don't like an HP sponge with one shots, that doesn't bring anything new or a transformative experience, they just like to complain?

It's moreso the obvious dislike that it's an option for others. People will say Ooh trials are not for me. But they don't usually argue that trials shouldn't exist and if it does exist it shouldn't give exp.

wolfie1.0. · July 4

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

Some people really enjoy the challenge difficulties; other people just like to complain about it even if they don't have to participate.

Hey its an ESO tradition to complain about stuff that I dont participate in... 🤣🤣

Luneca · July 4

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

Luneca wrote: »

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

Some people really enjoy the challenge difficulties; other people just like to complain about it even if they don't have to participate.

So if they don't like an HP sponge with one shots, that doesn't bring anything new or a transformative experience, they just like to complain?

If I want to stick to doing the same thing with less and less effectiveness per unit of time as the game drags on, I'd just go fire siege.

Are you seriously trying to say you have not seen the threads complaining that challenge difficulty even exists? Why does someone else enjoying the extra challenge in a video game bother some people? I get that there is a contingent that just wants everything to die if they so much as aggro it, but some people actually enjoy combat that is not ridiculously easy. Anyone that has tried Vestige difficulty knows that almost nothing "one shots" anyone with an actual build.

Well maybe they're complaining because it's a literal waste. I get it, you enjoy artificial difficulty implemented with the least possible work or vision. But not everyone does, and people will call it out since the game isn't even really playable this patch with all the lag and crashing.

Ooo difficulty modes that add no real dimension to combat other than one-shots and more HP! Let me praise it. Or I can express how disappointing it is.

Literally forcing yourselves to give meaning to a system implemented in a way that wasn't what anyone actually wanted and settling for it, then complaining about others that don't settle?

What a mindset. Hope it's clearer since you went on a complete tangent without being able to stick to the point to try and get me to move to a different discussion. But I will just clarify it for you. I'm always ready to both learn and teach.

OsUfi · July 4

Luneca wrote: »

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

Luneca wrote: »

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

Some people really enjoy the challenge difficulties; other people just like to complain about it even if they don't have to participate.

So if they don't like an HP sponge with one shots, that doesn't bring anything new or a transformative experience, they just like to complain?

If I want to stick to doing the same thing with less and less effectiveness per unit of time as the game drags on, I'd just go fire siege.

Are you seriously trying to say you have not seen the threads complaining that challenge difficulty even exists? Why does someone else enjoying the extra challenge in a video game bother some people? I get that there is a contingent that just wants everything to die if they so much as aggro it, but some people actually enjoy combat that is not ridiculously easy. Anyone that has tried Vestige difficulty knows that almost nothing "one shots" anyone with an actual build.

Ooo difficulty modes that add no real dimension to combat other than one-shots and more HP! Let me praise it. Or I can express how disappointing it is.

The dimensions and mechanics were there. They've always been there. We just never experienced them because we blew everything away in 1-2 seconds with light attacks.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Luneca wrote: »

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

Some people really enjoy the challenge difficulties; other people just like to complain about it even if they don't have to participate.

So if they don't like an HP sponge with one shots, that doesn't bring anything new or a transformative experience, they just like to complain?

It's moreso the obvious dislike that it's an option for others. People will say Ooh trials are not for me. But they don't usually argue that trials shouldn't exist and if it does exist it shouldn't give exp.

This hits the nail on the head for why the pushback against hard mode is so infuriating on this forum. Instead of "it's not for me", so many comments are "this shouldn't exist". Two very different stances. I'm glad ZoS seemed happy with the uptake of difficulty settings during the live stream.

sleepy_worm · July 4

I've seen many people in my beginner guild having an absolute blast trying out different difficulty modes and seeing what they can accomplish in content that was previously extremely boring. There is a measurable amount of joy being had because of this addition to the game.

Arunei · July 4

Luneca wrote: »

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

Luneca wrote: »

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

Some people really enjoy the challenge difficulties; other people just like to complain about it even if they don't have to participate.

So if they don't like an HP sponge with one shots, that doesn't bring anything new or a transformative experience, they just like to complain?

If I want to stick to doing the same thing with less and less effectiveness per unit of time as the game drags on, I'd just go fire siege.

Are you seriously trying to say you have not seen the threads complaining that challenge difficulty even exists? Why does someone else enjoying the extra challenge in a video game bother some people? I get that there is a contingent that just wants everything to die if they so much as aggro it, but some people actually enjoy combat that is not ridiculously easy. Anyone that has tried Vestige difficulty knows that almost nothing "one shots" anyone with an actual build.

Well maybe they're complaining because it's a literal waste. I get it, you enjoy artificial difficulty implemented with the least possible work or vision. But not everyone does, and people will call it out since the game isn't even really playable this patch with all the lag and crashing.

Ooo difficulty modes that add no real dimension to combat other than one-shots and more HP! Let me praise it. Or I can express how disappointing it is.

Literally forcing yourselves to give meaning to a system implemented in a way that wasn't what anyone actually wanted and settling for it, then complaining about others that don't settle?

What a mindset. Hope it's clearer since you went on a complete tangent without being able to stick to the point to try and get me to move to a different discussion. But I will just clarify it for you. I'm always ready to both learn and teach.

You do realize people are allowed to have opinions that aren't yours and your opinion isn't objective fact, right? You can't claim something is a waste simply because you don't want to engage with it and completely disregard the people who are having fun with it. Claiming people are "forcing themselves to like it" is so completely disingenuous and is a claim that has no basis in reality. You not liking something doesn't mean other people genuinely can't.

Also people aren't saying others have to "settle". They're tired of posts like this one where people who don't like something act like that thing has no right to exist when though they don't need to engage with it at all and it won't change anything for them if they don't. It's like people saying PvP shouldn't exist because they don't like it.

People are also tired of "this isn't what we asked for!", too. Because yes it is. People wanted the ability to make Overland harder. People wanted it to be opt-in. People suggested a number of ways to do that, iirc the most popular was a slider. What we got essentially IS a slider, just instead of a bar we have icons to select.

spartaxoxo · July 4

Luneca wrote: »

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

Some people really enjoy the challenge difficulties; other people just like to complain about it even if they don't have to participate.

So if they don't like an HP sponge with one shots, that doesn't bring anything new or a transformative experience, they just like to complain?

If I want to stick to doing the same thing with less and less effectiveness per unit of time as the game drags on, I'd just go fire siege.

HP sponge is a build issue. I am not fighting against HP sponges on my character. You may want to consider lowering the difficulty that you're attempting to try it on. It's the reason they have multiple settings. As for one shots, yeah, those definitely do happen. But also force the use of Dodge and block, and the higher overall damage also makes heals useful..

There's tons of new-to-me mechanics added to the game for me because I actually didn't get to see them. It didn't just make things die slower, it added depth.

It's fine if it's not for you but not everyone is having the same experience and others do genuinely like it.

SkaiFaith · July 4

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Luneca wrote: »

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

Some people really enjoy the challenge difficulties; other people just like to complain about it even if they don't have to participate.

So if they don't like an HP sponge with one shots, that doesn't bring anything new or a transformative experience, they just like to complain?

If I want to stick to doing the same thing with less and less effectiveness per unit of time as the game drags on, I'd just go fire siege.

HP sponge is a build issue. I am not fighting against HP sponges on my character. You may want to consider lowering the difficulty that you're attempting to try it on. It's the reason they have multiple settings. As for one shots, yeah, those definitely do happen. But also force the use of Dodge and block, and the higher overall damage also makes heals useful..

There's tons of new-to-me mechanics added to the game for me because I actually didn't get to see them. It didn't just make things die slower, it added depth.

It's fine if it's not for you but not everyone is having the same experience and others do genuinely like it.

I know it's not the first time I praise you, sparta, but your patience is beyond my comprehension and I want to recognize and show appreciation - how in the world you manage to keep it cool...

I've recently commented on a thread and seen my comment deleted. I insta-thought "maybe I should delete my forum account". Self-control is an art hard to master.

Speaking of hard to master... I'd argue challenge difficulty in-game, even on Vestige, is much less frustrating than inadvertently activating challenge difficulty on Seasoned on the forum. In fact, I very much enjoy and am glad of this new feature devs added to ESO and how they implemented it.

EDIT: oh, and btw, I always thought ESO combat was better to play than to watch. Thanks to challenge difficulty, videos like the ones from OP show that combat is now enjoyable to watch too! Much more understandable, "slow", strategic and fun to follow. Awesome! Nice advertising.

spartaxoxo · July 4

SkaiFaith wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Luneca wrote: »

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

Some people really enjoy the challenge difficulties; other people just like to complain about it even if they don't have to participate.

So if they don't like an HP sponge with one shots, that doesn't bring anything new or a transformative experience, they just like to complain?

If I want to stick to doing the same thing with less and less effectiveness per unit of time as the game drags on, I'd just go fire siege.

HP sponge is a build issue. I am not fighting against HP sponges on my character. You may want to consider lowering the difficulty that you're attempting to try it on. It's the reason they have multiple settings. As for one shots, yeah, those definitely do happen. But also force the use of Dodge and block, and the higher overall damage also makes heals useful..

There's tons of new-to-me mechanics added to the game for me because I actually didn't get to see them. It didn't just make things die slower, it added depth.

It's fine if it's not for you but not everyone is having the same experience and others do genuinely like it.

I know it's not the first time I praise you, sparta, but your patience is beyond my comprehension and I want to recognize and show appreciation - how in the world you manage to keep it cool...

I've recently commented on a thread and seen my comment deleted. I insta-thought "maybe I should delete my forum account". Self-control is an art hard to master.

Speaking of hard to master... I'd argue challenge difficulty in-game, even on Vestige, is much less frustrating than inadvertently activating challenge difficulty on Seasoned on the forum. In fact, I very much enjoy and am glad of this new feature devs added to ESO and how they implemented it.

EDIT: oh, and btw, I always thought ESO combat was better to play than to watch. Thanks to challenge difficulty, videos like the ones from OP show that combat is now enjoyable to watch too! Much more understandable, "slow", strategic and fun to follow. Awesome! Nice advertising.

Thank you 🙂 That's very kind of you.

I mostly just try to remember that tone isn't conveyed on the internet. And at the end of the day, we're all just discussing a video game. When I do that it becomes easier to just ignore the tone and focus on the meat and potatoes of the post. I know sometimes that causes me to miss subtle details but it's how I keep my peace on here lol.

Luneca · July 4

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Luneca wrote: »

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

Some people really enjoy the challenge difficulties; other people just like to complain about it even if they don't have to participate.

So if they don't like an HP sponge with one shots, that doesn't bring anything new or a transformative experience, they just like to complain?

If I want to stick to doing the same thing with less and less effectiveness per unit of time as the game drags on, I'd just go fire siege.

HP sponge is a build issue. I am not fighting against HP sponges on my character. You may want to consider lowering the difficulty that you're attempting to try it on. It's the reason they have multiple settings. As for one shots, yeah, those definitely do happen. But also force the use of Dodge and block, and the higher overall damage also makes heals useful..

There's tons of new-to-me mechanics added to the game for me because I actually didn't get to see them. It didn't just make things die slower, it added depth.

It's fine if it's not for you but not everyone is having the same experience and others do genuinely like it.

Nice assumption, but HP sponge refers to additional time being wasted to move an HP bar without any real additional mechanical change. Hope it's clearer for you. Strange I have to explain things so much to people on the forums today. That's exactly what the purpose of the changes were according to you and others here, you enjoy that -- I'm saying it's a pointless change because it literally isn't a challenge. Again, you and others can enjoy that, I don't.

Using the block and roll button to avoid one shots isn't riveting gameplay. Then again, I thought souls-like games were garbage and aren't actually difficult. But at least with those games, bosses do have mechanics that matter beyond dodge-attack cycles. But no need to expand on that, because I've already said that the difficulty changes are a waste because they don't transform combat for me.

Let me point my nose up too and make a silly statement like Maybe it's a skill issue between me and the people that enjoy it. /s. Because it couldn't be that people conclude different things.

Am I really going overtime teaching?

Arunei wrote: »

Luneca wrote: »

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

Luneca wrote: »

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

Some people really enjoy the challenge difficulties; other people just like to complain about it even if they don't have to participate.

So if they don't like an HP sponge with one shots, that doesn't bring anything new or a transformative experience, they just like to complain?

If I want to stick to doing the same thing with less and less effectiveness per unit of time as the game drags on, I'd just go fire siege.

Are you seriously trying to say you have not seen the threads complaining that challenge difficulty even exists? Why does someone else enjoying the extra challenge in a video game bother some people? I get that there is a contingent that just wants everything to die if they so much as aggro it, but some people actually enjoy combat that is not ridiculously easy. Anyone that has tried Vestige difficulty knows that almost nothing "one shots" anyone with an actual build.

Well maybe they're complaining because it's a literal waste. I get it, you enjoy artificial difficulty implemented with the least possible work or vision. But not everyone does, and people will call it out since the game isn't even really playable this patch with all the lag and crashing.

Ooo difficulty modes that add no real dimension to combat other than one-shots and more HP! Let me praise it. Or I can express how disappointing it is.

Literally forcing yourselves to give meaning to a system implemented in a way that wasn't what anyone actually wanted and settling for it, then complaining about others that don't settle?

What a mindset. Hope it's clearer since you went on a complete tangent without being able to stick to the point to try and get me to move to a different discussion. But I will just clarify it for you. I'm always ready to both learn and teach.

You do realize people are allowed to have opinions that aren't yours and your opinion isn't objective fact, right?

That one line literally invalidates everything you've posted and pushes the limit for hypocrisy. Not much more needs to be said if you cannot understand that. Literally played yourself.

Sentinel · July 4

Luneca wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Luneca wrote: »

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

Some people really enjoy the challenge difficulties; other people just like to complain about it even if they don't have to participate.

So if they don't like an HP sponge with one shots, that doesn't bring anything new or a transformative experience, they just like to complain?

If I want to stick to doing the same thing with less and less effectiveness per unit of time as the game drags on, I'd just go fire siege.

HP sponge is a build issue. I am not fighting against HP sponges on my character. You may want to consider lowering the difficulty that you're attempting to try it on. It's the reason they have multiple settings. As for one shots, yeah, those definitely do happen. But also force the use of Dodge and block, and the higher overall damage also makes heals useful..

There's tons of new-to-me mechanics added to the game for me because I actually didn't get to see them. It didn't just make things die slower, it added depth.

It's fine if it's not for you but not everyone is having the same experience and others do genuinely like it.

Nice assumption, but HP sponge refers to additional time being wasted to move an HP bar without any real additional mechanical change. Hope it's clearer for you. Strange I have to explain things so much to people on the forums today. That's exactly what the purpose of the changes were according to you and others here, you enjoy that -- I'm saying it's a pointless change because it literally isn't a challenge. Again, you and others can enjoy that, I don't.

Using the block and roll button to avoid one shots isn't riveting gameplay. Then again, I thought souls-like games were garbage and aren't actually difficult. But at least with those games, bosses do have mechanics that matter beyond dodge-attack cycles. But no need to expand on that, because I've already said that the difficulty changes are a waste because they don't transform combat for me.

Let me point my nose up too and make a silly statement like Maybe it's a skill issue between me and the people that enjoy it. /s. Because it couldn't be that people conclude different things.

Am I really going overtime teaching?

Arunei wrote: »

Luneca wrote: »

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

Luneca wrote: »

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

Some people really enjoy the challenge difficulties; other people just like to complain about it even if they don't have to participate.

So if they don't like an HP sponge with one shots, that doesn't bring anything new or a transformative experience, they just like to complain?

If I want to stick to doing the same thing with less and less effectiveness per unit of time as the game drags on, I'd just go fire siege.

Are you seriously trying to say you have not seen the threads complaining that challenge difficulty even exists? Why does someone else enjoying the extra challenge in a video game bother some people? I get that there is a contingent that just wants everything to die if they so much as aggro it, but some people actually enjoy combat that is not ridiculously easy. Anyone that has tried Vestige difficulty knows that almost nothing "one shots" anyone with an actual build.

Well maybe they're complaining because it's a literal waste. I get it, you enjoy artificial difficulty implemented with the least possible work or vision. But not everyone does, and people will call it out since the game isn't even really playable this patch with all the lag and crashing.

Ooo difficulty modes that add no real dimension to combat other than one-shots and more HP! Let me praise it. Or I can express how disappointing it is.

Literally forcing yourselves to give meaning to a system implemented in a way that wasn't what anyone actually wanted and settling for it, then complaining about others that don't settle?

What a mindset. Hope it's clearer since you went on a complete tangent without being able to stick to the point to try and get me to move to a different discussion. But I will just clarify it for you. I'm always ready to both learn and teach.

You do realize people are allowed to have opinions that aren't yours and your opinion isn't objective fact, right?

That one line literally invalidates everything you've posted and pushes the limit for hypocrisy. Not much more needs to be said if you cannot understand that. Literally played yourself.

Dang people get pretty rude these forums.

OsUfi · July 4

Luneca wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Luneca wrote: »

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

Some people really enjoy the challenge difficulties; other people just like to complain about it even if they don't have to participate.

So if they don't like an HP sponge with one shots, that doesn't bring anything new or a transformative experience, they just like to complain?

If I want to stick to doing the same thing with less and less effectiveness per unit of time as the game drags on, I'd just go fire siege.

HP sponge is a build issue. I am not fighting against HP sponges on my character. You may want to consider lowering the difficulty that you're attempting to try it on. It's the reason they have multiple settings. As for one shots, yeah, those definitely do happen. But also force the use of Dodge and block, and the higher overall damage also makes heals useful..

There's tons of new-to-me mechanics added to the game for me because I actually didn't get to see them. It didn't just make things die slower, it added depth.

It's fine if it's not for you but not everyone is having the same experience and others do genuinely like it.

Nice assumption, but HP sponge refers to additional time being wasted to move an HP bar without any real additional mechanical change.

Everything already has mechanics of some description. We now get to see them because we're not killing everything before the enemies cast their first spell.

spartaxoxo · July 4

Luneca wrote: »

Nice assumption, but HP sponge refers to additional time being wasted to move an HP bar without any real additional mechanical change. Hope it's clearer for you. Strange I have to explain things so much to people on the forums today. That's exactly what the purpose of the changes were according to you and others here, you enjoy that -- I'm saying it's a pointless change because it literally isn't a challenge. Again, you and others can enjoy that, I don't.

Using the block and roll button to avoid one shots isn't riveting gameplay. Then again, I thought souls-like games were garbage and aren't actually difficult. But at least with those games, bosses do have mechanics that matter beyond dodge-attack cycles. But no need to expand on that, because I've already said that the difficulty changes are a waste because they don't transform combat for me.

Let me point my nose up too and make a silly statement like Maybe it's a skill issue between me and the people that enjoy it. /s. Because it couldn't be that people conclude different things.

Am I really going overtime teaching?

HP sponges in video games generally refers to bosses with excessively large health pools that take an unreasonable amount of time to defeat. They don't generally refer to any and everything that might make a boss take longer. At least, as far as I have ever heard the term used and what Google is verifying for me right now. YMMV but that's what made me think it might be a build issue since there is some gear in this game that makes Vestige an HP sponge for some players.

As for experiencing new mechanics not really adding depth to the fight, we'll agree to disagree as it does sound like your idea of difficulty is very different than mine. I find the Fromsoft games to be generally satisfying levels of challenges.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · July 4

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

For some.

It is good for the game period. You either benefit from it, or it doesn't affect you at all.

This is objectively not true. The Dev time investment causes other areas of the game to get less dev time, sure there are different teams for some areas so you could argue that only the 'one team' is tied up with the dev and it affects a more narrow section. (but those devs could still do something else outside of their normal team)

I've only used this feature for the pursuit & whilst being boosted by someone on adventure mode so I get extra xp rates which kind of seems against the point and not worth the dev time investment. I'm sure there's a small portion of the playerbase enjoying it though. Just remains to be seen how much. Unfortunately the numbers they hinted to on stream are directly during the golden pursuit which will always drive engagement when it rewards crown crates.

I wish they release how many players are interacting with this feature outside of the golden pursuit so we can see how popular this has actually been... along with vengeance.

Arunei · July 4

Luneca wrote: »

That one line literally invalidates everything you've posted and pushes the limit for hypocrisy. Not much more needs to be said if you cannot understand that. Literally played yourself.

It invalidates nothing because you portray your opinion as fact rather than the opinion that it is. You ignore other facts to try and push your claims.

"People are complaining because it's a waste" is not stating an opinion. It's stating that something either objectively is or isn't. If you were portraying an opinion, you would have said "People are complaining because they and I think it's a waste". There is a difference.

You bring up the game not being playable and crashing/lagging, which has nothing to do with this particular feature. Like at all. The game was having these problems before Challenge Difficulty and will have them for who knows how long after.

"Literally forcing yourselves to give meaning to a system..." is point-blank declaring no one genuinely enjoys the harder difficulty settings. Again, this is NOT an opinion. This is you claiming no one likes Challenge Difficulty and everyone who does is forcing themselves to. Period. It invalidates and dismisses the opinion of anyone who doesn't agree with you.

"...implemented in a way that wasn't what anyone actually wanted" is, again, objectively wrong and not an opinion. It's stated as though it's a fact that no one "asked for" CD to be implemented in this way. Which is not true in the slightest. But hey, tell us all how people actually DID want it implemented. Tell us the one single universal way everyone asked for CD to be introduced.

And claiming the people who like CD, which apparently according to what you yourself stated isn't actually the case, are "settling" for a system ZOS has said is the FIRST ITERATION of really is a choice. So is acting like people who don't like it are being told they also need to "settle" for it, when what's being said is no one has to use the system and they can completely ignore it if they don't like it and don't plan on using it. And the people who DO want to use it but don't like how it's currently implemented also aren't being told to "settle" for what we currently have.

Now I don't agree with the sentiment of "anyone who's played on Vestige knows it's not 1shots if you have an actual build" because a lot of builds simply won't have the HP to survive certain things on Vestige, especially things like WBs or Group Events in Public Dungeons. I've seen Shorts on Youtube of high-end PvE players getting nuked in one or two hits from stronger mobs on Vestige. DPS and Healers can have "actual builds" but still get absolutely obliterated if they miss a block or a dodge, and that's the case even on Master.

Aliyavana · July 4

I’m happy that quest bosses are not immediately killed now. Improves my immersion.

James-Wayne · July 4

I don't understand how players like this feature, it's just a modifier that makes you do less damage and makes mobs hit harder... You can do that before by just removing CP, not upgrading equipment, not using OP sets... I just don't get the appeal.

I would have preferred new harder enemies, mechanics and/or environmental changes to the zones

Arunei · July 5

James-Wayne wrote: »

I don't understand how players like this feature, it's just a modifier that makes you do less damage and makes mobs hit harder... You can do that before by just removing CP, not upgrading equipment, not using OP sets... I just don't get the appeal.

I would have preferred new harder enemies, mechanics and/or environmental changes to the zones

The main problem people had with removing your CP and Gear and such was that it essentially meant a person couldn't use their builds while also feeling challenged. Which...to me does seem a bit odd, because generally the point of putting together really good builds is to be able to blow through harder stuff like Vet HM Dungeons/Trials. If you have builds that can handle stuff like that, then of course it's going to annihilate Overland stuff. The answer was to make it so Overland stuff can be set to something akin to the difficulty of those kinds of encounters so people can continue to use their builds but feel some sense of engagement.

And they couldn't implement new mechanics, enemies, or environmental stuff based on your difficulty because that would alter the world rather than the players. They'd have needed separate instances for stuff like that and they've already explained why they didn't implement instances to begin with.

OsUfi · July 5

James-Wayne wrote: »

You can do that before by just removing CP, not upgrading equipment, not using OP sets... I just don't get the appeal.

Many players find themselves somewhere on a sliding scale of what they enjoy and don't enjoy.

My characters gear is part of their character. My current character uses all named quest reward items with Oakensoul and a monster helm she found. She never changes her gear. It's one set for everywhere. So I should fall into the heavy RP group in theory. But even wearing quest reward gear I still demolish everything I meet in two seconds flat. So I use difficulty on Master setting. This gives the world a bit of resistance and push back, but isn't Dark Souls.

Challenge difficulty players see not all the same. We're not all carbon copies of each other, pushing our bodies and reflexes to the limits. And that's why for many of us, removing our gear, cp, and using only a stick isn't a good solution. Thankfully we now have an optional opt-in solution that allows all players to play a bit more how they like.

Isn't that an ESO/ZoS mantra? Play your way. I'd say challenge mode fits that!

CameraBeardThePirate · July 5

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

For some.

It is good for the game period. You either benefit from it, or it doesn't affect you at all.

This is objectively not true. The Dev time investment causes other areas of the game to get less dev time, sure there are different teams for some areas so you could argue that only the 'one team' is tied up with the dev and it affects a more narrow section. (but those devs could still do something else outside of their normal team)

I've only used this feature for the pursuit & whilst being boosted by someone on adventure mode so I get extra xp rates which kind of seems against the point and not worth the dev time investment. I'm sure there's a small portion of the playerbase enjoying it though. Just remains to be seen how much. Unfortunately the numbers they hinted to on stream are directly during the golden pursuit which will always drive engagement when it rewards crown crates.

I wish they release how many players are interacting with this feature outside of the golden pursuit so we can see how popular this has actually been... along with vengeance.

Sorry but it is objectively true.

The amount of time spent on this vs content would be minimal, and as an optional feature it only serves to bring players back or retain players that want more challenge in overland content.

Yes it takes development time, everything does, but let's not pretend adding some % modifiers took years and years of work. Clearly the cost benefit analysis was in their favor or they wouldn't have done it.

Getsugatenso · July 7

agelonestar wrote: »

Is this a bot thread?

I'm not a bot

mickeyx · July 7

If i had lot of free time I would try vestige too.

SkillzMFG · July 8

Luneca wrote: »

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

Some people really enjoy the challenge difficulties; other people just like to complain about it even if they don't have to participate.

So if they don't like an HP sponge with one shots, that doesn't bring anything new or a transformative experience, they just like to complain?

If I want to stick to doing the same thing with less and less effectiveness per unit of time as the game drags on, I'd just go fire siege.

Buddy you're playing a game, you're not arranging an Excel Sheet.

Don't use the system if you don't like it, simple as.

Aliniel · July 8

I agree. Vestige really changed the joy of questing for me. I already had to adjust my build. I took up extra Armor/Spell Resistance mundus stone, and always start the fight by buffing myself with Major Protection, Major Resolve, etc. One of the first things I do when I jump in is applying the Templar shield, so I don't get one shot. I even have to roll dodge enemy attacks.

This really is a shift from brainless face-roll on the keyboard to a genuine playing. Before, I was just using a single random skill to wipe the enemies. Now, I even die from time to time.

There are some big downsides. E.g., world bosses are pretty much impossible to do as they one shot you immediately. But that can be bypassed by switching the difficulty (which is a bit tedious). Also, ranged mobs can be a bit overpowered as they just keep shooting at you and killing you too fast.

Sure, there are situations where the enemies feel like sponges, but not every enemy needs to a mini boss.