Danse_Mayhem wrote: »

Sorry but that’s not even close close to how things are now.

Old DK did indeed indeed have other ways to sustain with combustion + battle roar, but they involved some management on top of at least some sustain on the build.

Now you don’t even have to be a DK - Just throw ardent flame on literally anything, forget ALL other sources of sustain / recovery and core of flame will take care of it. No other skill has ever been close to this OP, and no U50 skills even come close either.

I know the DK mains have historically been up in arms when anyone comes for their class, but this isn’t about the class, or even the skill line, it’s about one skill.

DK in general was always going to be the strongest class for a while until the others get reworked and I don’t think many of us have an issue with that. What I have an issue with, is being able to throw Ardent flame on any build in PvP, slot core, and being able to completely forget about any other form of sustain - I’m talking recovery glyphs, race, tri pots, heavy attacks, set bonuses etc etc. None of it is needed at all.

That makes -not- running ardent flame a seriously bad choice in PvP atm. Not because of the skill line being good, but because you actually have to invest in sustain somewhere on your build. People facing that choice are widely saying “no” and slotting ardent with an extra damage set.

I really don’t know how anyone can defend how broken that skill is atm.

Danse_Mayhem wrote: »

The skill



PvP balance

Since the very start of the game, PvP builds have been about balance and trade off from the 3 core parts of a build;

Damage.
Survivability.
Sustain.

You can obviously lean into each for different roles, but that comes at a cost; Build all damage and nothing else, you’re a glass cannon ganker. Build all survivability and sustain, you’re a tank with no damage. Etc etc.

Until now

The release of this reworked skill has essentially removed the need for ANY sustain on a build using it.
If an average max pool of resources is 30k (which is fairly typical) and you consider that stamina and magicka recovery stats grant their values every 2 seconds… This can give up to the equivalent of +4500 Magicka AND stamina recovery once cast. Obviously that’s based on a 30k pool and casting low enough, but if you use this at all in any capacity, you’ll see that it’s the ONLY sustain you need.

You don’t need recovery race, recovery glyphs, recovery mundus stone, heavy attacks or even tri pots anymore.
I had a full weekend of PvP using Ardent flame on a nightblade base, and could literally just cast this occasionally and completely forget sustain on a build that otherwise had none.
Comparatively; I used another NB build using wretched vitality (A sustain set) and didn’t use this skill, and the sustain was notably worse. This skill alone is outperforming any combination of sustain sets right now.

The alternatives

We currently have 2 other sustainable skills in the game; Balance (Mages guild) and Dark deal (Sorceror)

Neither come even remotely close to how game breaking Core of Flame is. They don’t remove the need for other sustain, they aren’t instant cast, don’t restore anywhere near as much resources, and don’t come with a free AOE burst at the end.

The effect on PvP

Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE is going to be using Ardent flame very soon. Most are already. It’s bad enough that whip is entirely overtuned;
- Hits like a spectral bow.
- Stacks 5 times for spam.
- Massive self heal
- AOE

That already damages PVP imo with how busted that skill is.

Now add Core of flame, which allows us all to forget 1 out of the 3 core parts of building anything for PvP, and just go full damage sets.
As I mentioned above, you’ll don’t even need tri pots to sustain at all, so you can use speed / armour / healing potions etc, and it’s essentially turned anyone using Ardent flame into Thanos.

If in some way this was across the board, and recovery in eso was just removed so we could cast whatever, whenever and infinitely block or dodge roll, then fine I guess.

But right now, if you aren’t using ardent flame, you have no chance in PvP, and that’s not even just about the new revamped DK skills that other classes will get in time, it’s because you can ignore sustain completely.

After reading today’s PTS notes, it’s extremely disappointing that this hasn’t been addressed, and I can only guess the lack of posts about it on the forums are due to many DK fans, but this absolutely needs to be changed.
Infinite mag / stam (and soon to be a better heal) from a single skill that also comes with a delayed burst for kill combos, is absolutely not balanced at all.

Please review this ZOS. Thanks

Ocelot9x wrote: »

gammelscroll wrote: »

Danse_Mayhem wrote: »

The skill



PvP balance

Since the very start of the game, PvP builds have been about balance and trade off from the 3 core parts of a build;

Damage.
Survivability.
Sustain.

You can obviously lean into each for different roles, but that comes at a cost; Build all damage and nothing else, you’re a glass cannon ganker. Build all survivability and sustain, you’re a tank with no damage. Etc etc.

Until now

The release of this reworked skill has essentially removed the need for ANY sustain on a build using it.
If an average max pool of resources is 30k (which is fairly typical) and you consider that stamina and magicka recovery stats grant their values every 2 seconds… This can give up to the equivalent of +4500 Magicka AND stamina recovery once cast. Obviously that’s based on a 30k pool and casting low enough, but if you use this at all in any capacity, you’ll see that it’s the ONLY sustain you need.

You don’t need recovery race, recovery glyphs, recovery mundus stone, heavy attacks or even tri pots anymore.
I had a full weekend of PvP using Ardent flame on a nightblade base, and could literally just cast this occasionally and completely forget sustain on a build that otherwise had none.
Comparatively; I used another NB build using wretched vitality (A sustain set) and didn’t use this skill, and the sustain was notably worse. This skill alone is outperforming any combination of sustain sets right now.

The alternatives

We currently have 2 other sustainable skills in the game; Balance (Mages guild) and Dark deal (Sorceror)

Neither come even remotely close to how game breaking Core of Flame is. They don’t remove the need for other sustain, they aren’t instant cast, don’t restore anywhere near as much resources, and don’t come with a free AOE burst at the end.

The effect on PvP

Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE is going to be using Ardent flame very soon. Most are already. It’s bad enough that whip is entirely overtuned;
- Hits like a spectral bow.
- Stacks 5 times for spam.
- Massive self heal
- AOE

That already damages PVP imo with how busted that skill is.

Now add Core of flame, which allows us all to forget 1 out of the 3 core parts of building anything for PvP, and just go full damage sets.
As I mentioned above, you’ll don’t even need tri pots to sustain at all, so you can use speed / armour / healing potions etc, and it’s essentially turned anyone using Ardent flame into Thanos.

If in some way this was across the board, and recovery in eso was just removed so we could cast whatever, whenever and infinitely block or dodge roll, then fine I guess.

But right now, if you aren’t using ardent flame, you have no chance in PvP, and that’s not even just about the new revamped DK skills that other classes will get in time, it’s because you can ignore sustain completely.

After reading today’s PTS notes, it’s extremely disappointing that this hasn’t been addressed, and I can only guess the lack of posts about it on the forums are due to many DK fans, but this absolutely needs to be changed.
Infinite mag / stam (and soon to be a better heal) from a single skill that also comes with a delayed burst for kill combos, is absolutely not balanced at all.

Please review this ZOS. Thanks

This was just now with 2600 crit resist and pariah set. Unkillable DK with heart of flame , blocking and 30k dmg in 1.sek. 4 ppl on him couldnt kill him.
This game and PvP is *** joke

lol we play on the same server,that recap shows the problem with current balancing: not meaning to flame but the guy who killed you Is a terribly average player.
Playing dk Is like having giant training wheelies.
All the skills have 2/3+ useful effects and the class passives are way better than every other class.

With a functioning pair of hands its literally impossible to finish resources, and now that status effects builds are nerfed you dont need to play Mara backbar anymore so you can fully spec into damage.