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Signet is the symptom, not the disease.
Ratzkifal
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I'm just gonna say it, status effects are overtuned. They are easy to get - Elemental Susceptibility provides you with 3 guaranteed status effects (4 if you count brittle) at no cost, plenty of skills and sets guarantee status effect procs while also having powerful primary effects. And almost every status effect comes with quite powerful secondary effects, deal damage that needs to be respected lest you die by a thousand cuts, which makes them completely overshadow skills meant to apply the same buffs (minor Maim, minor Vulnerability, minor Defile, minor Breach, minor Magicka Steal). And on top of that they are a natural counter to otherwise powerful cleanse builds as they overwhelm almost any cleanse ability in the game by being so easy to apply but so costly to remove. All of this is was already true before Signet entered the picture. Signet just made this issue more apparent.
Something had to happen, but I think you overshot the goal.
I don't think it's wrong for specializing into maximizing status effects to exist as a viable build path, and cleanse builds would be out of control if we weren't all running status effect setups right now, like they have been in the past.
So instead of completely removing Signet from PvP you could have done one of the following:
What you have done now is nerfing Wardens in particular, reducing the number of good mythics in PvP back to just Monomyth, rather than "Monomyth or Signet", waste everyone's materials/gold/transmutes.
Honestly, I'm not too upset about this change (other than my squishy Bowden no longer being a serious threat). I'll just use Monomyth and my ultimates again. I'm just very confused about the how and the timing of it.
The only purely positive thing I can say about this move is that it's refreshing to see things being addressed quickly rather than waiting until Update51.
Let's hope you can revisit this change on a similar time frame!
Something had to happen, but I think you overshot the goal.
I don't think it's wrong for specializing into maximizing status effects to exist as a viable build path, and cleanse builds would be out of control if we weren't all running status effect setups right now, like they have been in the past.
So instead of completely removing Signet from PvP you could have done one of the following:
- Reduce its effect while Battlespirit is active
- Increase its drawbacks
- Keep Signet the way it was, or potentially even buff it, while nerfing the base damage of status effects in order to keep status effect builds viable but making Signet more of a specialization rather than the default option that anyone would be stupid not to make use of.
- Change the mostly pointless Nirnhoned armor trait to "flat damage decrease", like a negative Draugrkin buff, which would provide a counter to builds that are trying to overwhelm you with lots of small effects as it disproportionally affects them, by applying the reduction before the multipliers and as a result the reduction would also get multiplied by Signet.
- Buff light armor to reduce status effect damage for every piece you wear, making it a trade-off between general defense vs specialized defense.
- Fix the Trial by Fire set to work properly (apparently it is bugged)
What you have done now is nerfing Wardens in particular, reducing the number of good mythics in PvP back to just Monomyth, rather than "Monomyth or Signet", waste everyone's materials/gold/transmutes.
Honestly, I'm not too upset about this change (other than my squishy Bowden no longer being a serious threat). I'll just use Monomyth and my ultimates again. I'm just very confused about the how and the timing of it.
The only purely positive thing I can say about this move is that it's refreshing to see things being addressed quickly rather than waiting until Update51.
Let's hope you can revisit this change on a similar time frame!
This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
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Major_Mangle✭✭✭✭✭
✭Been saying it for years, SPS didn´t make status effect damage overtuned. Status effect damage has been overtuned as far back as Morrowind patch, and it´s just gotten worse since then. I´m personally of the opinion that status effects should be amount augmenting existing damage sources, not be the damage source itself. Having cool interactions like hemorrhaging used to have (minor mangle) is a nice example of such a thing, and each status effect should´ve something unique attached to it. But status effect essentially being a "free proc set" that requires zero investment to yield a disproportionate outcome hasn´t been healthy for game for a long time.Ps4 EU 2016-2020
PC/EU: 2020 -2 -
moo_2021✭✭✭✭✭second the idea about Nirnhoned armor trait. That trait, alone with Invigorating, are completely useless currently.4 -
JustLovely✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BetweenMidgets wrote: »Ele sus should also have a magicka cost.
I've always thought it was weird there is a skill that didn't cost any resources of any kind. Plus, it keeps others in combat for a full minute, can't repair, can't mount etc., and it's free. Never seemed right to me.6 -
Panderbander✭✭✭✭✭
✭Either place a magicka cost on Ele Sus or reduce the duration significantly in PVP, like 10 seconds or so. Free abilities should not account for that much damage.Leader of Lycan Syndicate, PC NA's tri-faction werewolf guild.~~~Played since the beta, got the monkey.~~~"The blood of the pack is now yours. They are your only family, your only allegiance!"4 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BetweenMidgets wrote: »Ele sus should also have a magicka cost.
The only reason I didn't suggest that is because that'll have knock-on effects for PvE, because tanks actually run that ability to provide brittle, Major Breach at range and minor breach through wall of frost hitting a chilled target, which would otherwise require slotting even more skills and further strain their sustain.
Ele sus can get away with not having a magicka cost if status effects weren't as powerful as they are, or if Ele sus only applied one status effect determined by the element of your staff.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.3 -
tomofhyrule✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭+1 Ele sus needs a cost.
It’s way too much free damage as is between the status effects and the Breach and the long duration. No other skill is that overloaded, and the ones that even came close got nerfed to oblivion.4 -
LadyGP✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭JustLovely wrote: »BetweenMidgets wrote: »Ele sus should also have a magicka cost.
I've always thought it was weird there is a skill that didn't cost any resources of any kind. Plus, it keeps others in combat for a full minute, can't repair, can't mount etc., and it's free. Never seemed right to me.
Buy this person a beer.LadyGP/xCatGuy
PC/NA
Having network issues? Discconects? DM me and I will help you troubleshoot with PingPlotter to figure out what is going on.1 -
Trundik✭✭✭second the idea about Nirnhoned armor trait. That trait, alone with Invigorating, are completely useless currently.
I use nirnhoned trait on light armor gloves and belt. So your statement isn't true.Major_Mangle wrote: »Been saying it for years, SPS didn´t make status effect damage overtuned. Status effect damage has been overtuned as far back as Morrowind patch, and it´s just gotten worse since then. I´m personally of the opinion that status effects should be amount augmenting existing damage sources, not be the damage source itself. Having cool interactions like hemorrhaging used to have (minor mangle) is a nice example of such a thing, and each status effect should´ve something unique attached to it. But status effect essentially being a "free proc set" that requires zero investment to yield a disproportionate outcome hasn´t been healthy for game for a long time.
This is a set of very strange and groundless theses. Firstly, it is good for the game when the same results can be achieved by different methods. Secondly, this game follows a long-known path with no alternative, when with each new expansion the damage increases, and old sets are thrown into the trash. Now there are new trends in status effects. In the next supplement, they will go to the trash. Complaining about it is the same as complaining about the sunrise. However, I'm sure the Wardens enjoyed having some good dps for a few weeks. If you asked me what is really worth complaining about, I would answer - the *** unbalanced release that screwed IA leaderboard and the dogs playing with two buttons like with their balls. Scratch left - 60k dps omg, scratch right 100 k dps omg. Scratch both - 160k dps, oh my barking god... For me, the most interesting thing in this game was always intelligence, which you can apply and get some kind of build with a good result. In this update, I made a warden that without meta sets made 126 k on a doll, for example. With the use of a Signet tho. Now the ring has received a serious nerf, this numbers will already be smaller. But I really don't understand one thing. Why does the game constantly strive to lower the threshold of entry by IQ? One-panel builds for heavy attacks, hermius mora in ToT? It seems to me that soon dogs and cats will be able to really play it with their paws.
El Sus is a joke honestly. If the player wants to rely on status effects, he will need to prepare his entire bars for this, as well as sets and traits. That is, it will make a full-fledged build.I'm just gonna say it, status effects are overtuned. They are easy to get - Elemental Susceptibility provides you with 3 guaranteed status effects (4 if you count brittle) at no cost, plenty of skills and sets guarantee status effect procs while also having powerful primary effects.
Edited by Trundik on June 30, 2026 2:16AM1 -
SirBanana1992✭✭✭I'd be careful with some of these changes lest we want Infinite Archive to be more annoying to run at later arcs by nerfing its single best damage source.1
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IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BetweenMidgets wrote: »Ele sus should also have a magicka cost.
Only people dying to Elemental Susceptibility are the ones that are fresh out of tutorials and run all divines because they do not want to swap to pvp traited/weighted gears. Don't think it need a cost.Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel2 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
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That's about 300 extra total resistance compared to running Reinforced. What a useful armor trait that is, to be useful on exactly belts and gloves, but only light armor! Really worth that extra rarity of the Nirnhoned trait. Especially because Impenetrable still mitigates more damage in PvP.
If Nirnhoned reduced damage received by a flat amount the mitigation would end up being higher (the exact amount depending on the scenario). In other words it would become a whole lot more useful on all armor weights, including heavy armor, and compete with Impenetrable in PvP depending on whether the meta leans more towards being dot heavy or big crit burst heavy.
Ele Sus provides:[...]
El Sus is a joke honestly. If the player wants to rely on status effects, he will need to prepare his entire bars for this, as well as sets and traits. That is, it will make a full-fledged build.I'm just gonna say it, status effects are overtuned. They are easy to get - Elemental Susceptibility provides you with 3 guaranteed status effects (4 if you count brittle) at no cost, plenty of skills and sets guarantee status effect procs while also having powerful primary effects.- 5% extra damage taken debuff
- 10% extra crit damage taken debuff (when used on an ice staff)
- ~6k armor reduction
- 5% damage done reduction
- Concussion, Chilled, Burning as triggers for other effects and procs
- Two instances of instant direct damage (Chilled, Concussion)
- A damage over time effect (Burning)
- Refreshes itself every 7.5 seconds, lasts 30seconds.
- Can trigger Vateshran Destro
- Has exceptionally long 35m range (same as Snipe)
- provides 5 debuffs in one cast, the same number of effects Templar can remove through Extended Ritual - in other words, spamming Ele Sus on someone trying to cast Extended Ritual to get rid of oil siege can prevent them from getting rid of the oil dot and cause death
That said, for the reasons you mentioned, I don't think it needs a magicka cost. But I think it could absolutely do without providing Burning, Concussion AND Chilled and could instead just provide one status effect depending on the element of the staff. That would be enough, because Major Breach + Brittle on one cast is still very powerful.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.5 -
biovitalb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭BetweenMidgets wrote: »Ele sus should also have a magicka cost.
I'd say they should go a step further.
Magicka cost + Cast time + Dodgeable projectile.0 -
Stamicka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I’m extreme on this issue, but I just want status effects removed from PvP completely. At the end of the day it’s free effortless damage and the only counter play is purify really.
It would be better if things were more direct. Instead of Power of the Light applying sundered, just make it apply minor breach like it used to for example.
ZOS continues to claim that excessive calculations cause an issue with PvP performance, yet pretty much any ability casted has a chance to apply a status effect which of course requires both a probability calculation and then an extra damage event calculation if it procs. What’s the point? Just put damage and debuffs on things directly.PC NA and Xbox NA3 -
Lord_Hev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Elemental susceptibility needs to have a cost AND have the status effects completely removed. Maybe then we will have other backbar build options again, instead of ice staff for the last 4 years.1 -
zammo✭✭✭Signet scaling was too much. It shouldn't have been flat out removed from PvP though, players put time into content for that. Scaling in PvP should have been reduced to 40%.
Re: Ele Sus, give it a cost, and have the status effects apply on 6, 12, 18, 24, and 30 seconds rather than 0, 7.5, 15, 22.5, 30 seconds. This is much less of an issue in PvP now though.
I don't personally think status effects are too powerful, just their ease of application is. Remove the guaranteed application from the various skills and item sets etc.0 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Elemental susceptibility needs to have a cost AND have the status effects completely removed. Maybe then we will have other backbar build options again, instead of ice staff for the last 4 years.
Been team sword n board that whole time lol never needed itZos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...0 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The only reason I didn't suggest that is because that'll have knock-on effects for PvE, because tanks actually run that ability to provide brittle, Major Breach at range and minor breach through wall of frost hitting a chilled target, which would otherwise require slotting even more skills and further strain their sustain.
No really. Pierce Armour provides Major & Minor Breach, costs less than Wall of Frost, and gives an extra slot back. There are plenty of other ways to get Brittle, not that Brittle is actually needed to get to crit dmg cap these days.
It would mean that range tanking would become more difficult, but at the same time tanking at range means less time needing to block, which means more time to heavy attack and gain resources back to then fuel a magicka cost added to Ele Sus.PC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!0 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Elemental susceptibility needs to have a cost AND have the status effects completely removed. Maybe then we will have other backbar build options again, instead of ice staff for the last 4 years.
Removing the status effects would cap IA for most at around Arc 5.PC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!3 -
They could do something like this to discourage people from using Elemental Susceptibility as a spamable ability.
While battle spirit is active, Elemental Susceptibility costs 1,950, and casting again within 8 seconds costs 50% more Magicka.
Of course, the numbers would probably have to be adjusted for PvP, so the skill is balanced properly.
Edited by PrinceMeroborn on July 2, 2026 8:38PM1 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm just gonna say it, status effects are overtuned. They are easy to get - Elemental Susceptibility provides you with 3 guaranteed status effects (4 if you count brittle) !
Just a quick note, Brittle is not a status effect. It's just a minor debuff.
All the direct damage status effects apply Minor Debuffs. Chilled applies 2 IF you are holding a frost staff, but that doesn't make Brittle a status effect; it is merely another debuff.2 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭More broadly there are almost no sources of cleansing effects, and those we have are incredibly undertuned.
Externded Ritual cleanses 5 effects, which is just a drop in the bucket of effects the game has these days. Back at release this was substantial, but if I want to cleanse a Curse or PotL now, I have to spam Ritual around 3 times to get it off, which is just not feasible with a high cost skill.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.2 -
Oblivion_Protocol✭✭✭✭✭
✭I’m extreme on this issue, but I just want status effects removed from PvP completely. At the end of the day it’s free effortless damage and the only counter play is purify really.
Do you want dots removed from the game, too? Perhaps proc sets, as well? Should all just hit each other with sticks while in our birthday suits?0 -
Major_Mangle✭✭✭✭✭
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And Focused Efforts has been overtuned since the beginning. There are reasons why you reset after arc 1-2 if you don´t get FE if you plan to stay in IA for a while. IA is ZOS attempt at a "rogue like"-mode and there is only one option if you wanna go beyond arc 5 as you say. Imagine Hades 1 or 2 if there was only 1 good path/build in order to reach the end boss, it would make for a pretty awful rogue like experience. Sure you could buff everything else to oblivion, but I´´m of the opinion that uncontrolled power-creep is unhealthy for the game and rather have nerfs to the "extremes" be accompanied by buffs to some underperforming tools (and maybe even add new tools to that).Edited by Major_Mangle on July 3, 2026 2:09PMPs4 EU 2016-2020
PC/EU: 2020 -1 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Major_Mangle wrote: »
Imagine Hades 1 or 2 if there was only 1 good path/build in order to reach the end boss
To be fair using Hades 1 is a pretty bad example since Divine Dash is all but mandatory for pushing high heat runs.0 -
IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »I’m extreme on this issue, but I just want status effects removed from PvP completely. At the end of the day it’s free effortless damage and the only counter play is purify really.
Do you want dots removed from the game, too? Perhaps proc sets, as well? Should all just hit each other with sticks while in our birthday suits?
Ngl, sounds like Vengeance campaign to me.Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel0 -
dark_hunterxmg✭✭✭✭Elemental Susceptibility should have a cost, and less range. Maybe even a 6 second duration in pvp like my blood claws.
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Grega✭✭✭✭✭IZZEFlameLash wrote: »Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »I’m extreme on this issue, but I just want status effects removed from PvP completely. At the end of the day it’s free effortless damage and the only counter play is purify really.
Do you want dots removed from the game, too? Perhaps proc sets, as well? Should all just hit each other with sticks while in our birthday suits?
Ngl, sounds like Vengeance campaign to me.
Naaah. Way different. We never got birthday suits. /s0
