Zenithar event: parcel drops from crime dependent on being guild-grouped?

JeroenB · June 23

According to today's news post on the upcoming Zeal of Zenithar event:

If hard work doesn’t sound appealing, you can always turn to crime instead—you may sometimes locate stealable parcels throughout Tamriel by pickpocketing citizens and looting strongboxes or Thieves Troves while grouped up with at least one other member of your player guilds.

Is being grouped with a guild member for parcel drops from pickpocketing and criminal looting a new requirement this year?
This Help article I found from last year just states:

You may also discover parcels scattered across Tamriel by pickpocketing citizens and looting strongboxes or thieves troves.

Soarora · June 23

Huh… that’s… hmm. I get that Zeal of Zenithar pushes people to play with guildmates but thievery is a very solo endeavor considering there’s limited items in pockets and limited lockboxes.

Buffy121 · June 23

I think that grouping while stealing is a new requirement. I also think we didn't have to group for the infinite archive last time to get boxes either (though I may be wrong about that).

This could be a mistake by the article writer. If it isn't a mistake then it sucks.

DenverRalphy · June 23

Zen boxes from thieving aren't worth your time anyway. You can't launder the boxes themselves, and the stacks of mats inside them eat up your quota insanely fast.

shadyjane62 · June 23

Thank you DenverRalphy!

Ravenshadow6513 · June 23

... Yeah, thieving is a solo activity. I know there's a Thieves Guild in-game, but people are typically stealing together. How does group sneaking ever work with thieving? If your partnet gets caught, do you? And as far as I know, strongboxes and thieves troves aren't shared loot? I mean, I guess you could take turns pickpocketing someone? Even if you wanted to share in the spoils, as it were, you can't trade stolen items. This seems an odd change.

Ravenshadow6513 · June 23

Okay, not sure where the quote and edit buttons went.

"but people are NOT typically stealing together."
"How does group sneaking EVEN work with thieving?"

Soarora · June 23

Ravenshadow6513 wrote: »

Okay, not sure where the quote and edit buttons went.

"but people are NOT typically stealing together."
"How does group sneaking EVEN work with thieving?"

The buttons went into the aether. They’re still functionally there but the icons are gone, you have to go on mobile or feel around with your mouse like someone whose blind without their glasses.

Arunei · June 23

It still bothers me (probably irrationally so) that stealing is even a way TO get rewards for Zenithar's. Stealing is one of the things lore-wise he abhors, so why is an activity that goes AGAINST the Deity the Event is celebrating something you get rewarded for doing? It makes no sense.

Ravenshadow6513 wrote: »

... Yeah, thieving is a solo activity. I know there's a Thieves Guild in-game, but people are typically stealing together. How does group sneaking ever work with thieving? If your partnet gets caught, do you? And as far as I know, strongboxes and thieves troves aren't shared loot? I mean, I guess you could take turns pickpocketing someone? Even if you wanted to share in the spoils, as it were, you can't trade stolen items. This seems an odd change.

The only person who gets caught and receives a Bounty when stealing in a group is the person actively doing the stealing. No one else will get a Bounty unless they are ALSO actively stealing and get caught. And nope, Troves and Strong/Lockboxes are single-person, like mats and Overland Chests.

It is a very strange requirement to have and feels...kind of pointless. Like grouping for WBs or WEs makes sense, but it's also really...silly, to put it nicely...that the only guaranteed way to get multiple Boxes is to be grouped with someone. It wouldn't be so bad if it included people from your Friends List or even if it included Companions, as numerous other things that require grouping often count a Companion. But making people group to steal? That only isn't NOT a group activity, it actively HINDERS everyone else you're grouped with, including yourself. Unless everyone is spread out to different areas that is, but then...what literally is the point of being grouped? Because people can't all Pickpocket the same person or loot the same Troves/Boxes. It is inherently an anti-group activity that is the opposite of working together.

ESO_player123 · June 24

Arunei wrote: »

It still bothers me (probably irrationally so) that stealing is even a way TO get rewards for Zenithar's. Stealing is one of the things lore-wise he abhors, so why is an activity that goes AGAINST the Deity the Event is celebrating something you get rewarded for doing? It makes no sense.

Ravenshadow6513 wrote: »

... Yeah, thieving is a solo activity. I know there's a Thieves Guild in-game, but people are typically stealing together. How does group sneaking ever work with thieving? If your partnet gets caught, do you? And as far as I know, strongboxes and thieves troves aren't shared loot? I mean, I guess you could take turns pickpocketing someone? Even if you wanted to share in the spoils, as it were, you can't trade stolen items. This seems an odd change.

The only person who gets caught and receives a Bounty when stealing in a group is the person actively doing the stealing. No one else will get a Bounty unless they are ALSO actively stealing and get caught. And nope, Troves and Strong/Lockboxes are single-person, like mats and Overland Chests.

It is a very strange requirement to have and feels...kind of pointless. Like grouping for WBs or WEs makes sense, but it's also really...silly, to put it nicely...that the only guaranteed way to get multiple Boxes is to be grouped with someone. It wouldn't be so bad if it included people from your Friends List or even if it included Companions, as numerous other things that require grouping often count a Companion. But making people group to steal? That only isn't NOT a group activity, it actively HINDERS everyone else you're grouped with, including yourself. Unless everyone is spread out to different areas that is, but then...what literally is the point of being grouped? Because people can't all Pickpocket the same person or loot the same Troves/Boxes. It is inherently an anti-group activity that is the opposite of working together.

Do the grouped people need to be near each other? I mean, if not, one can pickpocket in Glenumbra, and another can kill WB in Shdowfen. Asking for a friend since my participation in this event is only doing the event quest + 7 master writs once a day.

Arunei · June 24

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

It still bothers me (probably irrationally so) that stealing is even a way TO get rewards for Zenithar's. Stealing is one of the things lore-wise he abhors, so why is an activity that goes AGAINST the Deity the Event is celebrating something you get rewarded for doing? It makes no sense.

Ravenshadow6513 wrote: »

... Yeah, thieving is a solo activity. I know there's a Thieves Guild in-game, but people are typically stealing together. How does group sneaking ever work with thieving? If your partnet gets caught, do you? And as far as I know, strongboxes and thieves troves aren't shared loot? I mean, I guess you could take turns pickpocketing someone? Even if you wanted to share in the spoils, as it were, you can't trade stolen items. This seems an odd change.

The only person who gets caught and receives a Bounty when stealing in a group is the person actively doing the stealing. No one else will get a Bounty unless they are ALSO actively stealing and get caught. And nope, Troves and Strong/Lockboxes are single-person, like mats and Overland Chests.

It is a very strange requirement to have and feels...kind of pointless. Like grouping for WBs or WEs makes sense, but it's also really...silly, to put it nicely...that the only guaranteed way to get multiple Boxes is to be grouped with someone. It wouldn't be so bad if it included people from your Friends List or even if it included Companions, as numerous other things that require grouping often count a Companion. But making people group to steal? That only isn't NOT a group activity, it actively HINDERS everyone else you're grouped with, including yourself. Unless everyone is spread out to different areas that is, but then...what literally is the point of being grouped? Because people can't all Pickpocket the same person or loot the same Troves/Boxes. It is inherently an anti-group activity that is the opposite of working together.

Do the grouped people need to be near each other? I mean, if not, one can pickpocket in Glenumbra, and another can kill WB in Shdowfen. Asking for a friend since my participation in this event is only doing the event quest + 7 master writs once a day.

I don't believe you need to be together for it to count for you, though if someone is doing X in X Zone, it won't ding for someone doing Y in Y Zone, and vice-versa. So technically people could group up and do their things, but requiring grouping for an activity that doesn't reward grouping is just an odd choice.

AScarlato · June 24

Arunei wrote: »

It still bothers me (probably irrationally so) that stealing is even a way TO get rewards for Zenithar's. Stealing is one of the things lore-wise he abhors, so why is an activity that goes AGAINST the Deity the Event is celebrating something you get rewarded for doing? It makes no sense.

Don't worry - I agree. Stealing is just taking away from the hard work of others so why would Zenithar even want to reward this?

It feels very gamified and solely to fit in with the upcoming TG story I suppose. As a RP I'm starting to feel this way about a lot of this year.

Like the NM feels more gamey than something that would actually exist in the world. Same with what I saw of the Nowhere Vault. Oh well I guess it's veering more into MMO than a lore-consistent game maybe?

spartaxoxo · June 24

AScarlato wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

It still bothers me (probably irrationally so) that stealing is even a way TO get rewards for Zenithar's. Stealing is one of the things lore-wise he abhors, so why is an activity that goes AGAINST the Deity the Event is celebrating something you get rewarded for doing? It makes no sense.

Don't worry - I agree. Stealing is just taking away from the hard work of others so why would Zenithar even want to reward this?

It feels very gamified and solely to fit in with the upcoming TG story I suppose. As a RP I'm starting to feel this way about a lot of this year.

Like the NM feels more gamey than something that would actually exist in the world. Same with what I saw of the Nowhere Vault. Oh well I guess it's veering more into MMO than a lore-consistent game maybe?

The Zeal of Zenithar had the stealing element for as long as it's been an event. I agree with you though. Idk why either. Never made sense to me.

AScarlato · June 24

spartaxoxo wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

It still bothers me (probably irrationally so) that stealing is even a way TO get rewards for Zenithar's. Stealing is one of the things lore-wise he abhors, so why is an activity that goes AGAINST the Deity the Event is celebrating something you get rewarded for doing? It makes no sense.

Don't worry - I agree. Stealing is just taking away from the hard work of others so why would Zenithar even want to reward this?

It feels very gamified and solely to fit in with the upcoming TG story I suppose. As a RP I'm starting to feel this way about a lot of this year.

Like the NM feels more gamey than something that would actually exist in the world. Same with what I saw of the Nowhere Vault. Oh well I guess it's veering more into MMO than a lore-consistent game maybe?

The Zeal of Zenithar had the stealing element for as long as it's been an event. I agree with you though. Idk why either. Never made sense to me.

I guess I really never paid attention - only noticed it this year. I can at least toss my rusting tin-foil hat into the garbage on that theory lol.

wolfie1.0. · June 24

Arunei wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

It still bothers me (probably irrationally so) that stealing is even a way TO get rewards for Zenithar's. Stealing is one of the things lore-wise he abhors, so why is an activity that goes AGAINST the Deity the Event is celebrating something you get rewarded for doing? It makes no sense.

Ravenshadow6513 wrote: »

... Yeah, thieving is a solo activity. I know there's a Thieves Guild in-game, but people are typically stealing together. How does group sneaking ever work with thieving? If your partnet gets caught, do you? And as far as I know, strongboxes and thieves troves aren't shared loot? I mean, I guess you could take turns pickpocketing someone? Even if you wanted to share in the spoils, as it were, you can't trade stolen items. This seems an odd change.

The only person who gets caught and receives a Bounty when stealing in a group is the person actively doing the stealing. No one else will get a Bounty unless they are ALSO actively stealing and get caught. And nope, Troves and Strong/Lockboxes are single-person, like mats and Overland Chests.

It is a very strange requirement to have and feels...kind of pointless. Like grouping for WBs or WEs makes sense, but it's also really...silly, to put it nicely...that the only guaranteed way to get multiple Boxes is to be grouped with someone. It wouldn't be so bad if it included people from your Friends List or even if it included Companions, as numerous other things that require grouping often count a Companion. But making people group to steal? That only isn't NOT a group activity, it actively HINDERS everyone else you're grouped with, including yourself. Unless everyone is spread out to different areas that is, but then...what literally is the point of being grouped? Because people can't all Pickpocket the same person or loot the same Troves/Boxes. It is inherently an anti-group activity that is the opposite of working together.

Do the grouped people need to be near each other? I mean, if not, one can pickpocket in Glenumbra, and another can kill WB in Shdowfen. Asking for a friend since my participation in this event is only doing the event quest + 7 master writs once a day.

I don't believe you need to be together for it to count for you, though if someone is doing X in X Zone, it won't ding for someone doing Y in Y Zone, and vice-versa. So technically people could group up and do their things, but requiring grouping for an activity that doesn't reward grouping is just an odd choice.

Last year you had to be grouped, in the same instance, and close to each other for it to count.

ESO_player123 · June 24

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

It still bothers me (probably irrationally so) that stealing is even a way TO get rewards for Zenithar's. Stealing is one of the things lore-wise he abhors, so why is an activity that goes AGAINST the Deity the Event is celebrating something you get rewarded for doing? It makes no sense.

Ravenshadow6513 wrote: »

... Yeah, thieving is a solo activity. I know there's a Thieves Guild in-game, but people are typically stealing together. How does group sneaking ever work with thieving? If your partnet gets caught, do you? And as far as I know, strongboxes and thieves troves aren't shared loot? I mean, I guess you could take turns pickpocketing someone? Even if you wanted to share in the spoils, as it were, you can't trade stolen items. This seems an odd change.

The only person who gets caught and receives a Bounty when stealing in a group is the person actively doing the stealing. No one else will get a Bounty unless they are ALSO actively stealing and get caught. And nope, Troves and Strong/Lockboxes are single-person, like mats and Overland Chests.

It is a very strange requirement to have and feels...kind of pointless. Like grouping for WBs or WEs makes sense, but it's also really...silly, to put it nicely...that the only guaranteed way to get multiple Boxes is to be grouped with someone. It wouldn't be so bad if it included people from your Friends List or even if it included Companions, as numerous other things that require grouping often count a Companion. But making people group to steal? That only isn't NOT a group activity, it actively HINDERS everyone else you're grouped with, including yourself. Unless everyone is spread out to different areas that is, but then...what literally is the point of being grouped? Because people can't all Pickpocket the same person or loot the same Troves/Boxes. It is inherently an anti-group activity that is the opposite of working together.

Do the grouped people need to be near each other? I mean, if not, one can pickpocket in Glenumbra, and another can kill WB in Shdowfen. Asking for a friend since my participation in this event is only doing the event quest + 7 master writs once a day.

I don't believe you need to be together for it to count for you, though if someone is doing X in X Zone, it won't ding for someone doing Y in Y Zone, and vice-versa. So technically people could group up and do their things, but requiring grouping for an activity that doesn't reward grouping is just an odd choice.

Last year you had to be grouped, in the same instance, and close to each other for it to count.

Well, that is definitely going to be interesting for pickpocketing.

Arunei · June 24

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

It still bothers me (probably irrationally so) that stealing is even a way TO get rewards for Zenithar's. Stealing is one of the things lore-wise he abhors, so why is an activity that goes AGAINST the Deity the Event is celebrating something you get rewarded for doing? It makes no sense.

Ravenshadow6513 wrote: »

... Yeah, thieving is a solo activity. I know there's a Thieves Guild in-game, but people are typically stealing together. How does group sneaking ever work with thieving? If your partnet gets caught, do you? And as far as I know, strongboxes and thieves troves aren't shared loot? I mean, I guess you could take turns pickpocketing someone? Even if you wanted to share in the spoils, as it were, you can't trade stolen items. This seems an odd change.

The only person who gets caught and receives a Bounty when stealing in a group is the person actively doing the stealing. No one else will get a Bounty unless they are ALSO actively stealing and get caught. And nope, Troves and Strong/Lockboxes are single-person, like mats and Overland Chests.

It is a very strange requirement to have and feels...kind of pointless. Like grouping for WBs or WEs makes sense, but it's also really...silly, to put it nicely...that the only guaranteed way to get multiple Boxes is to be grouped with someone. It wouldn't be so bad if it included people from your Friends List or even if it included Companions, as numerous other things that require grouping often count a Companion. But making people group to steal? That only isn't NOT a group activity, it actively HINDERS everyone else you're grouped with, including yourself. Unless everyone is spread out to different areas that is, but then...what literally is the point of being grouped? Because people can't all Pickpocket the same person or loot the same Troves/Boxes. It is inherently an anti-group activity that is the opposite of working together.

Do the grouped people need to be near each other? I mean, if not, one can pickpocket in Glenumbra, and another can kill WB in Shdowfen. Asking for a friend since my participation in this event is only doing the event quest + 7 master writs once a day.

I don't believe you need to be together for it to count for you, though if someone is doing X in X Zone, it won't ding for someone doing Y in Y Zone, and vice-versa. So technically people could group up and do their things, but requiring grouping for an activity that doesn't reward grouping is just an odd choice.

Last year you had to be grouped, in the same instance, and close to each other for it to count.

Would it not count for anyone in the group, or would it only count for the person doing whatever task? If Person A is doing WBs in Glenumbra and Person B is in Shadowfen doing Dolmens, would neither player even get credit for their own respective tasks since they aren't together? Or do they just not get credit for one another's (Person A not getting Dolmen counts and Person B not getting WB counts)?

Cuz if it's the former, the decision to make stealing something you have to be grouped for to count this year really is the decision of all time.

@ZOS_Kevin
Not sure if this will go through because it's not doing the normal thing it does when you @ someone, but can we get clarification on this? If you have to be in the same vicinity as someone else that's stealing in your group to get credit, that's going to make it a LOT harder for people to actually get the Boxes to drop since they'll actively be competing with each other.

Soarora · June 24

AScarlato wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

It still bothers me (probably irrationally so) that stealing is even a way TO get rewards for Zenithar's. Stealing is one of the things lore-wise he abhors, so why is an activity that goes AGAINST the Deity the Event is celebrating something you get rewarded for doing? It makes no sense.

Don't worry - I agree. Stealing is just taking away from the hard work of others so why would Zenithar even want to reward this?

It feels very gamified and solely to fit in with the upcoming TG story I suppose. As a RP I'm starting to feel this way about a lot of this year.

Like the NM feels more gamey than something that would actually exist in the world. Same with what I saw of the Nowhere Vault. Oh well I guess it's veering more into MMO than a lore-consistent game maybe?

You're not rewarded by Zenithar for stealing. The implication is that you're stealing someone else's reward that they got from their hard work. I think this is a realistic option for people with less-than-honest characters.

Gabriel_H · June 24

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

It still bothers me (probably irrationally so) that stealing is even a way TO get rewards for Zenithar's. Stealing is one of the things lore-wise he abhors, so why is an activity that goes AGAINST the Deity the Event is celebrating something you get rewarded for doing? It makes no sense.

Ravenshadow6513 wrote: »

... Yeah, thieving is a solo activity. I know there's a Thieves Guild in-game, but people are typically stealing together. How does group sneaking ever work with thieving? If your partnet gets caught, do you? And as far as I know, strongboxes and thieves troves aren't shared loot? I mean, I guess you could take turns pickpocketing someone? Even if you wanted to share in the spoils, as it were, you can't trade stolen items. This seems an odd change.

The only person who gets caught and receives a Bounty when stealing in a group is the person actively doing the stealing. No one else will get a Bounty unless they are ALSO actively stealing and get caught. And nope, Troves and Strong/Lockboxes are single-person, like mats and Overland Chests.

It is a very strange requirement to have and feels...kind of pointless. Like grouping for WBs or WEs makes sense, but it's also really...silly, to put it nicely...that the only guaranteed way to get multiple Boxes is to be grouped with someone. It wouldn't be so bad if it included people from your Friends List or even if it included Companions, as numerous other things that require grouping often count a Companion. But making people group to steal? That only isn't NOT a group activity, it actively HINDERS everyone else you're grouped with, including yourself. Unless everyone is spread out to different areas that is, but then...what literally is the point of being grouped? Because people can't all Pickpocket the same person or loot the same Troves/Boxes. It is inherently an anti-group activity that is the opposite of working together.

Do the grouped people need to be near each other? I mean, if not, one can pickpocket in Glenumbra, and another can kill WB in Shdowfen. Asking for a friend since my participation in this event is only doing the event quest + 7 master writs once a day.

Nope. With all "must be grouped" activities the group member can be on the other side of Tamriel and it still counts.

wolfie1.0. · June 24

Gabriel_H wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

It still bothers me (probably irrationally so) that stealing is even a way TO get rewards for Zenithar's. Stealing is one of the things lore-wise he abhors, so why is an activity that goes AGAINST the Deity the Event is celebrating something you get rewarded for doing? It makes no sense.

Ravenshadow6513 wrote: »

... Yeah, thieving is a solo activity. I know there's a Thieves Guild in-game, but people are typically stealing together. How does group sneaking ever work with thieving? If your partnet gets caught, do you? And as far as I know, strongboxes and thieves troves aren't shared loot? I mean, I guess you could take turns pickpocketing someone? Even if you wanted to share in the spoils, as it were, you can't trade stolen items. This seems an odd change.

The only person who gets caught and receives a Bounty when stealing in a group is the person actively doing the stealing. No one else will get a Bounty unless they are ALSO actively stealing and get caught. And nope, Troves and Strong/Lockboxes are single-person, like mats and Overland Chests.

It is a very strange requirement to have and feels...kind of pointless. Like grouping for WBs or WEs makes sense, but it's also really...silly, to put it nicely...that the only guaranteed way to get multiple Boxes is to be grouped with someone. It wouldn't be so bad if it included people from your Friends List or even if it included Companions, as numerous other things that require grouping often count a Companion. But making people group to steal? That only isn't NOT a group activity, it actively HINDERS everyone else you're grouped with, including yourself. Unless everyone is spread out to different areas that is, but then...what literally is the point of being grouped? Because people can't all Pickpocket the same person or loot the same Troves/Boxes. It is inherently an anti-group activity that is the opposite of working together.

Do the grouped people need to be near each other? I mean, if not, one can pickpocket in Glenumbra, and another can kill WB in Shdowfen. Asking for a friend since my participation in this event is only doing the event quest + 7 master writs once a day.

Nope. With all "must be grouped" activities the group member can be on the other side of Tamriel and it still counts.

That wasn't how it worked last time, or maybe I was just bugged. But I had to be right next to the other party members for drops to occur.

Jacozilla · June 24

Can’t say about event until tested, but in general the group = reward mechanism has always followed two different use cases.

For advancing a milestone only, no loot involved, the distance was entire world or dungeon instance.
Example - dungeon skill point quest, pledge kill credit, former endeavors be-in-group for X activity, etc.

^^ these types would / used to give full credit regardless of distance. Anywhere in dungeon instance, or for overland stuff - anywhere in Tamriel

For obtaining / triggering xp, item drop, loot from kill, etc - these seen to all or mostly all fall into short proximity range

Example - for combat xp, even if I don’t cast single skill, will get full xp share credit long as within close proximity. About 1-2 room distance in dungeons and about same for overland.

For kill based loot/drops, same close proximity and in most cases need to engage in combat (heal, dps, anything that triggers character to be in combat mode)

Same for former event based coffer, ticket on dead body, etc drops. Had to be in close enough proximity and either do 1pt of dmg or anything that puts you into combat (companion engaging counts)

For the Zenithar group req, I would assume because it is a physical item drop, we would need to be enough proximity? Guess will know in few hours

Cruxanero · June 24

I got a Zenithar box from stealing without being grouped at all, so it (thankfully) seems to be a mistake in the article.

katanagirl1 · June 25

I got a purple Zenithar box too while stealing alone.

AzuraFan · June 25

They added a correction to the article stating that you don't need to be grouped when stealing.

allochthons · June 25

I got a zenithar coffer while pickpocketing solo in Daggerfall today. You don't have to be grouped (or I got the RNG of a decade).

SilverBride · June 25

I don't really understand what the Zenithar event is about, even after doing some of it for a few years now. But I got a few nice things today just doing the starter quest on all of my guys so I may try some more tomorrow.

It's good to know we don't have to be grouped for pickpocketing because I was wondering about that.