I'm with you on providing feedback early in PTS. My feedback was completely ignored too. I know a lot of us saw what the underlying issues were and wanted them addressed.
I have seen several things that are strong this patch.
Sorcerer(because class mastery),
Dragon Knight(because of course)
Werewolf(because Sorc and Warden),
Necromancer(Ultra tanky/healy)
Templar(Ultra Healy)
Warden(higher damage and ultra Healy)

We're actually in a Sorcerer meta, but everyone is too busy crying wolf.

That's if the game lasts that long lay offs are coming less players then destiny an E6 on the way. a mmorpg needs players an needs those players to spend money if everyone gets frustrated an leaves that's no more game for anyone

Chase0351 wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

This is just a general rant.

Seeing the meta plays out like this isn't surprising at all. Historically, I and many PTS testers have accurately predicted several problematic changes that would result in toxic metas (Vateshraan proc, Hardened Ward change on Sorc, reworked DK, and now reworked WW just to name a few). It always happened exactly as anticipated. When the Hardened Ward buff made Sorc too strong on the PTS, my nerf-Ward threads were met with backlash, yet 3 months later people flooded the forums complaining this exact skill. When 2.0 DK rolled out on PTS, I again attempted to address the infinite sustain of Heart of Flame. People overwhelmingly disagreed with me, only to express distaste for the same issue 1 month later on the live server. Now comes WW, and we will see this pattern repeat.

PTS is there for a reason, and people like me are there to test these changes and provide feedback. Sure, anyone can say that a class is strong because it's just been reworked, but to pin-point exactly what the problem is requires theory-crafting knowledge and PvP experience. 2.0 DK does an insane amount of burst damage and is also extremely tanky, but their combo is predictable and their defense can be exploited. What actually enables them to reach an unprecedented power level is the god-tier sustain from Inhale. When a skill frees up an entire theory-crafting pillar, it allows you to allocate so much resources into other stats and really push it over the edge. HoF alone enables people to use Armor Pots instead of Tripots, drop Orzoga for Sugar Skulls, and drop Sustained By Suffering for a tanky CP like Juggernaut/Fortified/Boundless Vitality. They gain an insane amount of stats that a normal ability would never be able to replicate, and this can easily be proven by comparing stat difference between HoF and say, Netch or Rune Focus. A simple reduction to this ability's sustain would have largely resolved this issue. Likewise, WW is absurdly busted because of its unparalleled 1v1 pressure and infinite sustain, yet when its HP stays at a normal level (30-35k), you can actually one-shot it even if it takes a lot of effort. The correct adjustment would be to first tone down its HP-scaling heals.

But, some people aren't willing to accept this fact. They will openly and willingly go through mental hoops to convince themselves and others that these classes and skills are inherently balanced because they're "needed to counter other things". No, that is not how you balance games. Using the presence of an overperforming class/skill to justify keeping another overperforming one creates a vicious cycle of balance nightmare that's only going to drive away more players.

Perhaps what's most insulting is that some of these players have the audacity to tell other people that they "just have to be patient and wait their turn" and shut down any attempts to balance a revamped class. Sure, that's very easy to say if your main class is the first one to receive the rework. You're not spending 2 years waiting for a spot at the table. To say that to other fellow gamers, who have probably spent real-life money in this product, that they should just wait 1-2 years for their turn while being severely disadvantaged in PvP is spitting directly in their face. It's disingenuous, tone-deaf, and unacceptable. Surely enough, those players would be the first one to complain if their class wasn't reworked first but 1-2 years later instead.

HoF is fine. It’s not the one stop miracle skill some people say it is. You still have to include other forms of sustain into your build if you’re doing any kind of dueling, small scale groups fighting outnumbered, etc. Take it from someone that actually mains the class. You cannot sustain on HoF alone. I was just running around tonight with 3 other guys fighting heavily outnumbered against large Zergs in cyrodiil and if all I had to rely on for sustain was HoF I would’ve ran out of resources and died a lot more than I actually did tonight. All things considered we did well but that wasn’t due to broken skills it was due to positioning, coordination, communication and strategy. We outclassed our opponents. Why do you have such a bone to pick with HoF? I don’t get it. HoF doesn’t allow you to mindlessly spam skills. You still have to manage your resources properly and like I said anyone doing any real fighting for prolonged durations, no one shot balorgh gimmicks, is not being sustained by HoF alone. I run a damage set and a sustain set with a defensive monster and a neutral mythic. If I ran double damage sets, balorgh and a damage mythic I’d run out of gas so fast trying to keep all of my buffs up while dodging multiple ults, bombs and aoe pulls all while counter attacking in between. And everyone that actually PvP’s especially those that do not Zerg and instead go fight Zergs outnumbered can visualize what I’m saying because they experience these same events when they PvP. Your testing in PTS is not the same as real world application by those in the field.

Also, how is HoF any different than dark deal for sorcs, Betty for wardens or any other sustain focused skill in the game? The damage alone for HoF is laughable and the only way you’re doing any meaningful damage with it is by combining it with other skills and timing your burst combo properly. So it’s mainly used for the sustain. I don’t rely on the healing portion when I’m taking any meaningful damage especially against a good opponent because I have actual healing abilities that take care of that much better and using HoF as an actual heal to save your life will get you killed. The healing buff was nice but doesn’t change the tides in fights and neither does any component of the skill for that matter. HoF is supplemental and is working as intended. You gotta step outside the pts lab and actually go test these things in the field before you come on the forums posting your word as gospel. It’s misleading.

Literally just do a tally for all effects between HoF and the other sustain skills you mentioned.
Damage done, resources restored, healing done, resource cost, cast time, and associated buffs. Post the stats you use for the calculation.

If you can not see it then, you are either built extremely poorly or you are not playing the same game. This has nothing to do with PTS. If it means anything to you, I haven't moved that ability off my bar since U49 on any of my DK or subclassed builds.

Chase0351 wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

This is just a general rant.

Seeing the meta plays out like this isn't surprising at all. Historically, I and many PTS testers have accurately predicted several problematic changes that would result in toxic metas (Vateshraan proc, Hardened Ward change on Sorc, reworked DK, and now reworked WW just to name a few). It always happened exactly as anticipated. When the Hardened Ward buff made Sorc too strong on the PTS, my nerf-Ward threads were met with backlash, yet 3 months later people flooded the forums complaining this exact skill. When 2.0 DK rolled out on PTS, I again attempted to address the infinite sustain of Heart of Flame. People overwhelmingly disagreed with me, only to express distaste for the same issue 1 month later on the live server. Now comes WW, and we will see this pattern repeat.

PTS is there for a reason, and people like me are there to test these changes and provide feedback. Sure, anyone can say that a class is strong because it's just been reworked, but to pin-point exactly what the problem is requires theory-crafting knowledge and PvP experience. 2.0 DK does an insane amount of burst damage and is also extremely tanky, but their combo is predictable and their defense can be exploited. What actually enables them to reach an unprecedented power level is the god-tier sustain from Inhale. When a skill frees up an entire theory-crafting pillar, it allows you to allocate so much resources into other stats and really push it over the edge. HoF alone enables people to use Armor Pots instead of Tripots, drop Orzoga for Sugar Skulls, and drop Sustained By Suffering for a tanky CP like Juggernaut/Fortified/Boundless Vitality. They gain an insane amount of stats that a normal ability would never be able to replicate, and this can easily be proven by comparing stat difference between HoF and say, Netch or Rune Focus. A simple reduction to this ability's sustain would have largely resolved this issue. Likewise, WW is absurdly busted because of its unparalleled 1v1 pressure and infinite sustain, yet when its HP stays at a normal level (30-35k), you can actually one-shot it even if it takes a lot of effort. The correct adjustment would be to first tone down its HP-scaling heals.

But, some people aren't willing to accept this fact. They will openly and willingly go through mental hoops to convince themselves and others that these classes and skills are inherently balanced because they're "needed to counter other things". No, that is not how you balance games. Using the presence of an overperforming class/skill to justify keeping another overperforming one creates a vicious cycle of balance nightmare that's only going to drive away more players.

Perhaps what's most insulting is that some of these players have the audacity to tell other people that they "just have to be patient and wait their turn" and shut down any attempts to balance a revamped class. Sure, that's very easy to say if your main class is the first one to receive the rework. You're not spending 2 years waiting for a spot at the table. To say that to other fellow gamers, who have probably spent real-life money in this product, that they should just wait 1-2 years for their turn while being severely disadvantaged in PvP is spitting directly in their face. It's disingenuous, tone-deaf, and unacceptable. Surely enough, those players would be the first one to complain if their class wasn't reworked first but 1-2 years later instead.

HoF is fine. It’s not the one stop miracle skill some people say it is. You still have to include other forms of sustain into your build if you’re doing any kind of dueling, small scale groups fighting outnumbered, etc. Take it from someone that actually mains the class. You cannot sustain on HoF alone. I was just running around tonight with 3 other guys fighting heavily outnumbered against large Zergs in cyrodiil and if all I had to rely on for sustain was HoF I would’ve ran out of resources and died a lot more than I actually did tonight. All things considered we did well but that wasn’t due to broken skills it was due to positioning, coordination, communication and strategy. We outclassed our opponents. Why do you have such a bone to pick with HoF? I don’t get it. HoF doesn’t allow you to mindlessly spam skills. You still have to manage your resources properly and like I said anyone doing any real fighting for prolonged durations, no one shot balorgh gimmicks, is not being sustained by HoF alone. I run a damage set and a sustain set with a defensive monster and a neutral mythic. If I ran double damage sets, balorgh and a damage mythic I’d run out of gas so fast trying to keep all of my buffs up while dodging multiple ults, bombs and aoe pulls all while counter attacking in between. And everyone that actually PvP’s especially those that do not Zerg and instead go fight Zergs outnumbered can visualize what I’m saying because they experience these same events when they PvP. Your testing in PTS is not the same as real world application by those in the field.

Also, how is HoF any different than dark deal for sorcs, Betty for wardens or any other sustain focused skill in the game? The damage alone for HoF is laughable and the only way you’re doing any meaningful damage with it is by combining it with other skills and timing your burst combo properly. So it’s mainly used for the sustain. I don’t rely on the healing portion when I’m taking any meaningful damage especially against a good opponent because I have actual healing abilities that take care of that much better and using HoF as an actual heal to save your life will get you killed. The healing buff was nice but doesn’t change the tides in fights and neither does any component of the skill for that matter. HoF is supplemental and is working as intended. You gotta step outside the pts lab and actually go test these things in the field before you come on the forums posting your word as gospel. It’s misleading.

You are wrong on so many levels. If I lay out the math side by side, you would still refuse to accept that HoF is broken.

So before I do it, you need to answer this to me truthfully:

Are you 100% certain that you will acknowledge that HoF is significantly better than other skills if I can prove it with numbers?

Vaqual wrote: »

Chase0351 wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

This is just a general rant.

Seeing the meta plays out like this isn't surprising at all. Historically, I and many PTS testers have accurately predicted several problematic changes that would result in toxic metas (Vateshraan proc, Hardened Ward change on Sorc, reworked DK, and now reworked WW just to name a few). It always happened exactly as anticipated. When the Hardened Ward buff made Sorc too strong on the PTS, my nerf-Ward threads were met with backlash, yet 3 months later people flooded the forums complaining this exact skill. When 2.0 DK rolled out on PTS, I again attempted to address the infinite sustain of Heart of Flame. People overwhelmingly disagreed with me, only to express distaste for the same issue 1 month later on the live server. Now comes WW, and we will see this pattern repeat.

PTS is there for a reason, and people like me are there to test these changes and provide feedback. Sure, anyone can say that a class is strong because it's just been reworked, but to pin-point exactly what the problem is requires theory-crafting knowledge and PvP experience. 2.0 DK does an insane amount of burst damage and is also extremely tanky, but their combo is predictable and their defense can be exploited. What actually enables them to reach an unprecedented power level is the god-tier sustain from Inhale. When a skill frees up an entire theory-crafting pillar, it allows you to allocate so much resources into other stats and really push it over the edge. HoF alone enables people to use Armor Pots instead of Tripots, drop Orzoga for Sugar Skulls, and drop Sustained By Suffering for a tanky CP like Juggernaut/Fortified/Boundless Vitality. They gain an insane amount of stats that a normal ability would never be able to replicate, and this can easily be proven by comparing stat difference between HoF and say, Netch or Rune Focus. A simple reduction to this ability's sustain would have largely resolved this issue. Likewise, WW is absurdly busted because of its unparalleled 1v1 pressure and infinite sustain, yet when its HP stays at a normal level (30-35k), you can actually one-shot it even if it takes a lot of effort. The correct adjustment would be to first tone down its HP-scaling heals.

But, some people aren't willing to accept this fact. They will openly and willingly go through mental hoops to convince themselves and others that these classes and skills are inherently balanced because they're "needed to counter other things". No, that is not how you balance games. Using the presence of an overperforming class/skill to justify keeping another overperforming one creates a vicious cycle of balance nightmare that's only going to drive away more players.

Perhaps what's most insulting is that some of these players have the audacity to tell other people that they "just have to be patient and wait their turn" and shut down any attempts to balance a revamped class. Sure, that's very easy to say if your main class is the first one to receive the rework. You're not spending 2 years waiting for a spot at the table. To say that to other fellow gamers, who have probably spent real-life money in this product, that they should just wait 1-2 years for their turn while being severely disadvantaged in PvP is spitting directly in their face. It's disingenuous, tone-deaf, and unacceptable. Surely enough, those players would be the first one to complain if their class wasn't reworked first but 1-2 years later instead.

HoF is fine. It’s not the one stop miracle skill some people say it is. You still have to include other forms of sustain into your build if you’re doing any kind of dueling, small scale groups fighting outnumbered, etc. Take it from someone that actually mains the class. You cannot sustain on HoF alone. I was just running around tonight with 3 other guys fighting heavily outnumbered against large Zergs in cyrodiil and if all I had to rely on for sustain was HoF I would’ve ran out of resources and died a lot more than I actually did tonight. All things considered we did well but that wasn’t due to broken skills it was due to positioning, coordination, communication and strategy. We outclassed our opponents. Why do you have such a bone to pick with HoF? I don’t get it. HoF doesn’t allow you to mindlessly spam skills. You still have to manage your resources properly and like I said anyone doing any real fighting for prolonged durations, no one shot balorgh gimmicks, is not being sustained by HoF alone. I run a damage set and a sustain set with a defensive monster and a neutral mythic. If I ran double damage sets, balorgh and a damage mythic I’d run out of gas so fast trying to keep all of my buffs up while dodging multiple ults, bombs and aoe pulls all while counter attacking in between. And everyone that actually PvP’s especially those that do not Zerg and instead go fight Zergs outnumbered can visualize what I’m saying because they experience these same events when they PvP. Your testing in PTS is not the same as real world application by those in the field.

Also, how is HoF any different than dark deal for sorcs, Betty for wardens or any other sustain focused skill in the game? The damage alone for HoF is laughable and the only way you’re doing any meaningful damage with it is by combining it with other skills and timing your burst combo properly. So it’s mainly used for the sustain. I don’t rely on the healing portion when I’m taking any meaningful damage especially against a good opponent because I have actual healing abilities that take care of that much better and using HoF as an actual heal to save your life will get you killed. The healing buff was nice but doesn’t change the tides in fights and neither does any component of the skill for that matter. HoF is supplemental and is working as intended. You gotta step outside the pts lab and actually go test these things in the field before you come on the forums posting your word as gospel. It’s misleading.

Literally just do a tally for all effects between HoF and the other sustain skills you mentioned.
Damage done, resources restored, healing done, resource cost, cast time, and associated buffs. Post the stats you use for the calculation.

If you can not see it then, you are either built extremely poorly or you are not playing the same game. This has nothing to do with PTS. If it means anything to you, I haven't moved that ability off my bar since U49 on any of my DK or subclassed builds.

AFAIK , the wardens betty sustain skill is free and that skill is so good that most subclass builds have been running it. And that’s just one example. As I stated initially, the damage from HoF on its own is laughable. If you ever want to prove to me that you can kill me with HoF alone I’m always down for the 1v1. Then you can see how poorly built my dk is.

Also, HoF has a cost. There are many skills in this game that do a lot and have zero cost. This is a little off topic since it’s not a sustain skill but it does do damage so, ele sus. In today’s status effect effect meta this skill within its 30 second duration will do very good chip damage, like 15-20% of your health on a 40k health target with 35-40k resistances. Now that is over tuned. But I still don’t cry about it because it’s definitely on the lower end of the list for broken stuff in eso. WW’s are much worse. My 4 man group fought an 80k health WW last night and he was almost unkillable. He howled through damage from 4 well built players. Now that’s broken. Get off your soap box and open your eyes. There’s bigger fish to fry than dk’s having a little sustain skill. And in today’s meta we absolutely need every tool we currently have. Or maybe we are just not playing the same game since you seem to frequent these forums mostly.

Lmk about that 1v1

I'm outraged about the lack of care, attention and consideration the feedbacks from PTS have received, considered that most of the ridiculous issues we are facing especially in PvP were literally described from PTS feedbacks, mine included.
I'm especially angry about Arcanist is being absolutely disregarded, receiving the weakest class masteries of all the classes, regardless of being absolutely the trashiest class already in PvP - moreover, their class mastery is bugged, being another useless tool in a toolset of impracticality. But hey, no worries, class is going to be revamped in EO 2027! Yay! bruh..

I'm also really tired of hearing how WW and DK mains defend their meta. Even with the insane additional Sorc power from U50, the equation of how a BG goes is as follows:


It's that simple. I'm playing 10+ BGs each day and this sentence is valid 99% of the times. I'm yet to see any reasoning more powerful than this empirical experience from my side, and regardless the excitement and love I feel towards the game since I've rejoined, I'm thinking about quitting again because I just refuse to play against players playing by a different ruleset favoring them, simple as that.

@hoangdz
If you check the numbers, Arcanist abilities are on par with other class abilities (excluding WWs and DKs) in case of maxed out cruxes, but the whole class is about actually using those cruxes for a kind of competent damage shield or burst or beam - and while the former can prolong a fight that I'm losing, the latter two is suffering from the obvious desync issue from the game, rendering them absolute worthless in practical use. Numbers are not 100% the answer to every question, and @Chase0351 would be right that they are to be tested in actual and practical environments, but that is exactly why I'm fed up ZOS literally not giving a flying damn about all the feedbacks they've received during PTS. Returning to Arcanist I could also rant about how a projectile base heal hitting dead bodies or an insanely restrictive, thus unusable teleport skill are ruining the class, but my point is, that regardless of Arcanist being the latest class added to the game, it received serious (and at launch actually needed for some point) nerfs that at the end rendered the class viable in PvE and weakest in PvP. This is the situation I'm dealing with, and my best efforts in remaining positive are starting to crumble.

So the above being my experience I find it very frustrating when people are coming with the "pro tips" of how I can actually make my Arcanist better, while whatever is the current meta it is not viable with an Arcanist, and no actual gameplay is suitable for the Arcanist, that ESO is supporting or realizing, eg. damage shielding, a thing Arcanist could be competent results in zero points in a BG. I've spent months learning, researching and adapting based on helpful player feedbacks, and month by month everyone added at the end of the tip "try this, but arca is poop, maybe you should do pve instead".

@Nordstern
I'm actually one of those players claiming that I identify myself with a main character in the game, and ESO's "play however you want" mission should allow this - the game should support my not-so-far-fetched expectation that I play against others with equal chances. Yet it fails and I'm disappointed. Your actual recommendation also mirrors how miserable the situation is: you point out that half of the classes are literally out of the question, when it comes to viability. Don't you find this alarming?

I've come to the conclusion that whatever I try, the system is rigged against me and after the countless combinations, approaches and mindsets failing to get my Arcanist beating a DK, or now a WW, I started to question whether this system is fair at all or whether ZOS would be competent or caring enough at all to remedy my issue.

Usureki wrote: »

I'm outraged about the lack of care, attention and consideration the feedbacks from PTS have received, considered that most of the ridiculous issues we are facing especially in PvP were literally described from PTS feedbacks, mine included.
I'm especially angry about Arcanist is being absolutely disregarded, receiving the weakest class masteries of all the classes, regardless of being absolutely the trashiest class already in PvP - moreover, their class mastery is bugged, being another useless tool in a toolset of impracticality. But hey, no worries, class is going to be revamped in EO 2027! Yay! bruh..

I'm also really tired of hearing how WW and DK mains defend their meta. Even with the insane additional Sorc power from U50, the equation of how a BG goes is as follows:

Whichever team has more WWs and DKs win.

It's that simple. I'm playing 10+ BGs each day and this sentence is valid 99% of the times. I'm yet to see any reasoning more powerful than this empirical experience from my side, and regardless the excitement and love I feel towards the game since I've rejoined, I'm thinking about quitting again because I just refuse to play against players playing by a different ruleset favoring them, simple as that.

@hoangdz
If you check the numbers, Arcanist abilities are on par with other class abilities (excluding WWs and DKs) in case of maxed out cruxes, but the whole class is about actually using those cruxes for a kind of competent damage shield or burst or beam - and while the former can prolong a fight that I'm losing, the latter two is suffering from the obvious desync issue from the game, rendering them absolute worthless in practical use. Numbers are not 100% the answer to every question, and @Chase0351 would be right that they are to be tested in actual and practical environments, but that is exactly why I'm fed up ZOS literally not giving a flying damn about all the feedbacks they've received during PTS. Returning to Arcanist I could also rant about how a projectile base heal hitting dead bodies or an insanely restrictive, thus unusable teleport skill are ruining the class, but my point is, that regardless of Arcanist being the latest class added to the game, it received serious (and at launch actually needed for some point) nerfs that at the end rendered the class viable in PvE and weakest in PvP. This is the situation I'm dealing with, and my best efforts in remaining positive are starting to crumble.

So the above being my experience I find it very frustrating when people are coming with the "pro tips" of how I can actually make my Arcanist better, while whatever is the current meta it is not viable with an Arcanist, and no actual gameplay is suitable for the Arcanist, that ESO is supporting or realizing, eg. damage shielding, a thing Arcanist could be competent results in zero points in a BG. I've spent months learning, researching and adapting based on helpful player feedbacks, and month by month everyone added at the end of the tip "try this, but arca is poop, maybe you should do pve instead".

@Nordstern
I'm actually one of those players claiming that I identify myself with a main character in the game, and ESO's "play however you want" mission should allow this - the game should support my not-so-far-fetched expectation that I play against others with equal chances. Yet it fails and I'm disappointed. Your actual recommendation also mirrors how miserable the situation is: you point out that half of the classes are literally out of the question, when it comes to viability. Don't you find this alarming?

I've come to the conclusion that whatever I try, the system is rigged against me and after the countless combinations, approaches and mindsets failing to get my Arcanist beating a DK, or now a WW, I started to question whether this system is fair at all or whether ZOS would be competent or caring enough at all to remedy my issue.

To be fair, arcanist was very broken for a long time. Instead of us fighting among each other let’s take a pause and notice this trend. Zos keeps releasing broken stuff because it creates metas and drives sales in their cash shop. I’m not mad at them for trying to make a dollar however that strategy is a double edged sword because it has and will continue to drive people away from the game. Broken classes like WW, broken set items like shattered paths signet and builds like the pulse gank are the main things that will kill the game.

There’s a lot of us that actually want to engage in PvP that revolves around and rewards skilled gameplay instead of cheese 🧀. Back on topic, I agree with many of your points and respect your perspective and opinion.

Chase0351 wrote: »

@Vaqual @hoangdz

Tell us your main class please. And what level you PvP. Duel, solo open world, bg, small scale, zergling? Context is very important here.

All you need to know is that my skill level is well beyond most people on the forums. Also, you don’t sound like who you’re trying to be from the way you defend HoF so much lol

hoangdz wrote: »

Chase0351 wrote: »

@Vaqual @hoangdz

Tell us your main class please. And what level you PvP. Duel, solo open world, bg, small scale, zergling? Context is very important here.

All you need to know is that my skill level is well beyond most people on the forums. Also, you don’t sound like who you’re trying to be from the way you defend HoF so much lol

You don’t sound like who you’re pretending to be from the way you complain about HoF so much. Good players adapt, they don’t linger on the forums complaining because at the end of the day it is what it is. Zos is going to do what Zos does because it’s their world and all of us just play there. Maybe spend more time in game and less time on the forums and in the pts.

You still didn’t tell us your main class.

Usureki wrote: »

Chase0351 wrote: »

Usureki wrote: »

I'm outraged about the lack of care, attention and consideration the feedbacks from PTS have received, considered that most of the ridiculous issues we are facing especially in PvP were literally described from PTS feedbacks, mine included.
I'm especially angry about Arcanist is being absolutely disregarded, receiving the weakest class masteries of all the classes, regardless of being absolutely the trashiest class already in PvP - moreover, their class mastery is bugged, being another useless tool in a toolset of impracticality. But hey, no worries, class is going to be revamped in EO 2027! Yay! bruh..

I'm also really tired of hearing how WW and DK mains defend their meta. Even with the insane additional Sorc power from U50, the equation of how a BG goes is as follows:

Whichever team has more WWs and DKs win.

It's that simple. I'm playing 10+ BGs each day and this sentence is valid 99% of the times. I'm yet to see any reasoning more powerful than this empirical experience from my side, and regardless the excitement and love I feel towards the game since I've rejoined, I'm thinking about quitting again because I just refuse to play against players playing by a different ruleset favoring them, simple as that.

@hoangdz
If you check the numbers, Arcanist abilities are on par with other class abilities (excluding WWs and DKs) in case of maxed out cruxes, but the whole class is about actually using those cruxes for a kind of competent damage shield or burst or beam - and while the former can prolong a fight that I'm losing, the latter two is suffering from the obvious desync issue from the game, rendering them absolute worthless in practical use. Numbers are not 100% the answer to every question, and @Chase0351 would be right that they are to be tested in actual and practical environments, but that is exactly why I'm fed up ZOS literally not giving a flying damn about all the feedbacks they've received during PTS. Returning to Arcanist I could also rant about how a projectile base heal hitting dead bodies or an insanely restrictive, thus unusable teleport skill are ruining the class, but my point is, that regardless of Arcanist being the latest class added to the game, it received serious (and at launch actually needed for some point) nerfs that at the end rendered the class viable in PvE and weakest in PvP. This is the situation I'm dealing with, and my best efforts in remaining positive are starting to crumble.

So the above being my experience I find it very frustrating when people are coming with the "pro tips" of how I can actually make my Arcanist better, while whatever is the current meta it is not viable with an Arcanist, and no actual gameplay is suitable for the Arcanist, that ESO is supporting or realizing, eg. damage shielding, a thing Arcanist could be competent results in zero points in a BG. I've spent months learning, researching and adapting based on helpful player feedbacks, and month by month everyone added at the end of the tip "try this, but arca is poop, maybe you should do pve instead".

@Nordstern
I'm actually one of those players claiming that I identify myself with a main character in the game, and ESO's "play however you want" mission should allow this - the game should support my not-so-far-fetched expectation that I play against others with equal chances. Yet it fails and I'm disappointed. Your actual recommendation also mirrors how miserable the situation is: you point out that half of the classes are literally out of the question, when it comes to viability. Don't you find this alarming?

I've come to the conclusion that whatever I try, the system is rigged against me and after the countless combinations, approaches and mindsets failing to get my Arcanist beating a DK, or now a WW, I started to question whether this system is fair at all or whether ZOS would be competent or caring enough at all to remedy my issue.

To be fair, arcanist was very broken for a long time. Instead of us fighting among each other let’s take a pause and notice this trend. Zos keeps releasing broken stuff because it creates metas and drives sales in their cash shop. I’m not mad at them for trying to make a dollar however that strategy is a double edged sword because it has and will continue to drive people away from the game. Broken classes like WW, broken set items like shattered paths signet and builds like the pulse gank are the main things that will kill the game.

There’s a lot of us that actually want to engage in PvP that revolves around and rewards skilled gameplay instead of cheese 🧀. Back on topic, I agree with many of your points and respect your perspective and opinion.

Their inability to deliver a balanced class upon the introduction of Arcanist is no excuse at all for it being utterly worthless compared to other classes now. I don't envy them, it is really difficult to make such a complex game like this balanced (probably that's why they aim to stupefy it with combined spell/weapon damage and stats), but they do have their feedbacks on PTS they do have the info they need on this forum, yet they simply choose not to care. And here I am spending my time that is meant for leisure to complain on the forums of a broken game, giving feedbacks for a developer group who is not interested in them. As a customer, Elder Scrolls fan and ESO player I'm starting to have enough and though it saddens me, I'm starting to understand why the population of ESO is hitting new lows nowadays.

To be fair, PvP has been packed on my server lately. Huge epic battles going on everywhere. It’s the reason why they had to bring back black reach. Bg’s have been packed and IC has picked up some too.

Also, the pts needs to be taken with a fine grain of salt. The pts is full of regular eso players who take time out of their schedule to play on the test server instead of the live ones. Their feedback is based off of their biased opinions. And their opinions are biased based on whatever classes they like or dislike the most. So if you get killed a lot by dk’s like @hoangdz you’re going to come on the forums and try to get the dk class nerfed. Their time would be much better spent on the live servers figuring out how beat the things they want nerfed. That’s what I do in regard to WW’s. I’m in the trenches going toe to toe with them on a consistent basis. Which is why I mention 80k unkillable builds as potential detriments to the balance of PvP and not supplemental skills like HoF or sorc class mastery passives.

Practical application > theory

hoangdz wrote: »

Chase0351 wrote: »

So if you get killed a lot by dk’s like @hoangdz you’re going to come on the forums and try to get the dk class nerfed. Their time would be much better spent on the live servers figuring out how beat the things they want nerfed. That’s what I do in regard to WW’s. I’m in the trenches going toe to toe with them on a consistent basis. Which is why I mention 80k unkillable builds as potential detriments to the balance of PvP and not supplemental skills like HoF or sorc class mastery passives.

Practical application > theory

Yet you are here complaining about WW on the forums. Take your own advice then lol.

I think you need to stop arguing because people can see how ridiculous you sound from your posts. You were trying so hard to get WW nerfed by complaining about it in my thread, then the moment I and a few other people brought up HoF you did a 180 and tried to make me sound like I'm a bad player lol.

Says the one that created the post initially calling for nerfs. You should take your own advice and spend less time calling for nerfs and more time playing so you can actually see what’s broken. Just like dk had to be tuned down from last patch so does WW. It just came out this patch so obviously it’s over tuned for obvious reasons. That’s how Zos releases new product. But here you are creating arguments because you add no other value to the community. Instead of coming to the table you just want to cry “dk bad”, instead of actually looking at what’s over tuned at the moment. Like I said if you’re so concerned about one skill in the dk class kit then the class must be giving you trouble on the battlefield. In which case learn to play.

You still haven’t told us which class you main.

Chase0351 wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

Chase0351 wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

Chase0351 wrote: »

@Vaqual @hoangdz

Tell us your main class please. And what level you PvP. Duel, solo open world, bg, small scale, zergling? Context is very important here.

All you need to know is that my skill level is well beyond most people on the forums. Also, you don’t sound like who you’re trying to be from the way you defend HoF so much lol

You don’t sound like who you’re pretending to be from the way you complain about HoF so much. Good players adapt, they don’t linger on the forums complaining because at the end of the day it is what it is. Zos is going to do what Zos does because it’s their world and all of us just play there. Maybe spend more time in game and less time on the forums and in the pts.

You still didn’t tell us your main class.

Your bait is pretty bad lol. Tell you what, I play PC NA. Since you’re doubting my skill, let’s get a couple duels going to “verify”. If you’re not on PC NA, hop on PTS. I’ll use my class vs your DK.

No one is ‘baiting’ and that term is so cringe to actually hear another adult accuse someone of. As far as I’m concerned we are two adults having discourse, you know, engaging in debate and exchanging ideas? I thought that was the purpose of this forum.

I’m on Xbox na you can come duel me there I don’t have a pc and don’t go on pts. My time I have available to play eso is spent in cyrodiil on the battlefield fighting Zergs with a small 2-4 man group. I speak from experience as someone that predominantly plays the dk class in a PvP setting. Not someone that spends time on a test server theorizing and crunching numbers.

And is it in your eyes more appropriate to judge Combat Balancing by highly specific and anecdotal experiences or by objective and factual comparison?
You know it doesn't preclude personal experiences if someone tries to formulate a somewhat structured argument.

Chase0351 wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

Chase0351 wrote: »

So if you get killed a lot by dk’s like @hoangdz you’re going to come on the forums and try to get the dk class nerfed. Their time would be much better spent on the live servers figuring out how beat the things they want nerfed. That’s what I do in regard to WW’s. I’m in the trenches going toe to toe with them on a consistent basis. Which is why I mention 80k unkillable builds as potential detriments to the balance of PvP and not supplemental skills like HoF or sorc class mastery passives.

Practical application > theory

Yet you are here complaining about WW on the forums. Take your own advice then lol.

I think you need to stop arguing because people can see how ridiculous you sound from your posts. You were trying so hard to get WW nerfed by complaining about it in my thread, then the moment I and a few other people brought up HoF you did a 180 and tried to make me sound like I'm a bad player lol.

Says the one that created the post initially calling for nerfs. You should take your own advice and spend less time calling for nerfs and more time playing so you can actually see what’s broken. Just like dk had to be tuned down from last patch so does WW. It just came out this patch so obviously it’s over tuned for obvious reasons. That’s how Zos releases new product. But here you are creating arguments because you add no other value to the community. Instead of coming to the table you just want to cry “dk bad”, instead of actually looking at what’s over tuned at the moment. Like I said if you’re so concerned about one skill in the dk class kit then the class must be giving you trouble on the battlefield. In which case learn to play.

You still haven’t told us which class you main.

I have spent time playing eso lol. Just stop. We all know you don't want your dk toys nerfed. You were pretty relentless on WW earlier too that's the funny part

Chase0351 wrote: »

]
I’m on Xbox na you can come duel me there I don’t have a pc and don’t go on pts. My time I have available to play eso is spent in cyrodiil on the battlefield fighting Zergs with a small 2-4 man group. I speak from experience as someone that predominantly plays the dk class in a PvP setting. Not someone that spends time on a test server theorizing and crunching numbers.

Your personal experience doesn't make your case stronger. I have 1vX and small scaled for 7 years. I do all of that stuff and I don't need to show it to you lol.

I called you out on your attempt to attack my PvP experience by requesting for a duel. You can take it or leave. Want to see my skills, let's duel it out, or stop trying to revert the subject.

Hof dmg laughable? Ppl hit me with hof 9-10k crits and I have 29k resists. Try to hit backlash that high, good luck.