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We Need To Have A Talk: Gray Host Queue
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LadyGP✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Like @Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO said, the actual issue is how they’ve lowered the population caps randomly throughout the years.
While BR will help the queue, it still doesn’t really address the underlying issue that people want to play in the most dense faction locked Cyro server with a GH ruleset. It’s always been this way. Haderus used to have 100+ queues, so did Scourge. The 7days and the niche camps have never really seen that.
All the new updates are exciting, people are coming back, ZOS should have planned better. Vengeance was never the answer and a year of tests proved that, it’s absurd to think how this has all went down tbh. I would imagine there’s some tuff conversations to be had in the mgmt world at ZOS.
At the end of the day, they need to spend some money on hardware and increase our pop caps to the normal ruleset camps.
Eh, I can see how it went down this way to be honest.
The first test injected an insane amount of hype and "we are so back chat" into the conversation. Those 900 person fights... we hadn't had those type of tights in soooo many years.. it's very easy to get glossy eyed.
The surveys, intentionally or not, seem designed in a way that skews the results and grouping the answers into "fun" categories compounds that original bias even further to reach a desired outcome. Basically: ask "Did you have fun?" with five answer options, then lump three of them into an "88% had fun" stat. When three out of five choices are some version of fun a ton of fun, a lot of fun, fun, somewhat fun, no fun at all you're obviously going to land on "everyone's having a great time" once you chart it. I can't remember the exact survey questions but I do remember having a moment during the stream where I said, "duh you're going to get that result almost answer to that question was a positive answer" - and this kind of skewed through the surveys down stream.
I never saw a question with answer options that let people who weren't having fun actually voice that.. strong dislike of Vengeance, dislike of the ruleset, dislike of zerg vs zerg, etc. The survey seemed built just to gauge a simple "having fun or not," but there's a ton of nuance in that, right.
Then you keep going down this lane and you're getting data, performance charts that show the change you made is making the graph go in the right direction, it's very easy for anyone to keep going down this road. Yes, the forums had a lot of negative talk about it.. there was alot a lot of positive talk about it.
My view on it... vengence as a concept is the right mindset. We need to reduce calculations on the servers and we need to reduce/rework how said calculations happen. We also need to be able to do this without ripping 99% of the things out of GH that made it fun.
Just keep providing feedback, suggestions, etc, and let the devs iterate on it. The studio will have to look at the pop data and make a decision. Looking at the leader boards alone... it's very clear the numbers aren't where they had hoepend. I'd love to see the average player time in vengence or better yet.. how many people spent more than 10 minutes in vengence - period.
It's time to stop saying vengence failed and start providing suggestions/feedback on how they can improve it. They have put so much time, effort, money, etc into this and again.. the mindset is there.. the first test proved it CAN be fun and enjoyable.. we just have to help them understand what makes GH fun and let the devs cook.LadyGP/xCatGuy
PC/NA
Having network issues? Discconects? DM me and I will help you troubleshoot with PingPlotter to figure out what is going on.2 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭@SneaK raises a good point, and I said something to the effect of, I'd rather deal with lag and bad performance, crashes etc in Greyhost than go to Vengeance. I would prefer Zos raises the pop back up in Greyhost also to at least somethin like 200 per faction, maybe inch it up to 150 at least per faction first and see how that goes.Zos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...3 -
LadyGP✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »@SneaK raises a good point, and I said something to the effect of, I'd rather deal with lag and bad performance, crashes etc in Greyhost than go to Vengeance. I would prefer Zos raises the pop back up in Greyhost also to at least somethin like 200 per faction, maybe inch it up to 150 at least per faction first and see how that goes.
I felt this exact same way... until U50. I don't think they could physically raise the cap anymore without massive lag issues. The performance (from the server side not the client side) has been... bad.. to say the least.. since U50. I'm not sure if it's class master skills, some new skills or sets, WW changes, something is hitting the server and making it have to "think" alot more than it used too.LadyGP/xCatGuy
PC/NA
Having network issues? Discconects? DM me and I will help you troubleshoot with PingPlotter to figure out what is going on.2 -
SneaK✭✭✭✭✭
✭Like @Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO said, the actual issue is how they’ve lowered the population caps randomly throughout the years.
While BR will help the queue, it still doesn’t really address the underlying issue that people want to play in the most dense faction locked Cyro server with a GH ruleset. It’s always been this way. Haderus used to have 100+ queues, so did Scourge. The 7days and the niche camps have never really seen that.
All the new updates are exciting, people are coming back, ZOS should have planned better. Vengeance was never the answer and a year of tests proved that, it’s absurd to think how this has all went down tbh. I would imagine there’s some tuff conversations to be had in the mgmt world at ZOS.
At the end of the day, they need to spend some money on hardware and increase our pop caps to the normal ruleset camps.
Eh, I can see how it went down this way to be honest.
The first test injected an insane amount of hype and "we are so back chat" into the conversation. Those 900 person fights... we hadn't had those type of tights in soooo many years.. it's very easy to get glossy eyed.
The surveys, intentionally or not, seem designed in a way that skews the results and grouping the answers into "fun" categories compounds that original bias even further to reach a desired outcome. Basically: ask "Did you have fun?" with five answer options, then lump three of them into an "88% had fun" stat. When three out of five choices are some version of fun a ton of fun, a lot of fun, fun, somewhat fun, no fun at all you're obviously going to land on "everyone's having a great time" once you chart it. I can't remember the exact survey questions but I do remember having a moment during the stream where I said, "duh you're going to get that result almost answer to that question was a positive answer" - and this kind of skewed through the surveys down stream.
I never saw a question with answer options that let people who weren't having fun actually voice that.. strong dislike of Vengeance, dislike of the ruleset, dislike of zerg vs zerg, etc. The survey seemed built just to gauge a simple "having fun or not," but there's a ton of nuance in that, right.
Then you keep going down this lane and you're getting data, performance charts that show the change you made is making the graph go in the right direction, it's very easy for anyone to keep going down this road. Yes, the forums had a lot of negative talk about it.. there was alot a lot of positive talk about it.
My view on it... vengence as a concept is the right mindset. We need to reduce calculations on the servers and we need to reduce/rework how said calculations happen. We also need to be able to do this without ripping 99% of the things out of GH that made it fun.
Just keep providing feedback, suggestions, etc, and let the devs iterate on it. The studio will have to look at the pop data and make a decision. Looking at the leader boards alone... it's very clear the numbers aren't where they had hoepend. I'd love to see the average player time in vengence or better yet.. how many people spent more than 10 minutes in vengence - period.
It's time to stop saying vengence failed and start providing suggestions/feedback on how they can improve it. They have put so much time, effort, money, etc into this and again.. the mindset is there.. the first test proved it CAN be fun and enjoyable.. we just have to help them understand what makes GH fun and let the devs cook.
I can’t get behind that, Vengeance as a whole is ridiculous, and is proving to be a waste of resources. The only thing I could imagine being “fun” about it was they finally increased pop caps instead of decreasing them and there wasn’t subclassing (in the middle of the worst balance Cyro ever had). It’s the equivalent of Ford releasing the newer bronco, it sold nostalgia and people bought them in troves. A few years later, the only people driving them are suburban families cause they are like every other template of an SUV.
The concept of Vengeance is NOT the right mindset, at all. It’s a fine replacement for Blackwater Blade and that’s it, which doesn’t need a 900 pop cap.
The refreshes, on the other hand, is the right mindset. The class masteries, are the right mindset. These are the things that bring people into PvP, and bring back long lost customers. These are also good investments into ESO that will increase longevity. Vengeance was the opposite, flash sale to get people onboard but has absolutely no future.
If the lure of vengeance is 2015 pop caps, they need to figure out how to raise the pop caps without gutting Cyrodiil."IMO"Aldmeri Dominion1 Nightblade - 1 Templar - 7 Hybrid Mutt Abominations0 -
React✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hi everyone, we have an update for you. After further discussions and monitoring things overnight, we are going to move up the timeline for opening a Blackreach campaign on all servers to help alleviate the Gray Host queue times. This will happen tomorrow morning (Wednesday.)
On the more long-term front, we agree that the current Cyrodiil population meters could be improved, especially now that we have two Cyrodiil campaigns with different population caps. (One bar equates to a different number, depending on the campaign.) We are exploring options and will share more details as we have them.
Thank you all for your patience. We will communicate when the Blackreach campaign is open tomorrow.
Is this still happening? I don't see blackreach on NA or EU yet.
Just after I posted this, BR showed up on NA. Thanks again!Edited by React on June 17, 2026 5:23PM@ReactSlower - PC/NA - 2700+ CP ||| @ReactSlower - PC/EU - 1300+ CP ||| React Faster - XB/NA - 1500+ CP
ContentTwitch.tv/reactfaster
Youtube.com/@ReactFaster0 -
LadyGP✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hey all, the new Blackreach Cyrodiil campaign is now open on all servers. Thank you!
LadyGP/xCatGuy
PC/NA
Having network issues? Discconects? DM me and I will help you troubleshoot with PingPlotter to figure out what is going on.0 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭Zos already knows Greyhost has to stay locked lol Im sure they're not in the mood to receive more angry messages.BardokRedSnow wrote: »@SneaK raises a good point, and I said something to the effect of, I'd rather deal with lag and bad performance, crashes etc in Greyhost than go to Vengeance. I would prefer Zos raises the pop back up in Greyhost also to at least somethin like 200 per faction, maybe inch it up to 150 at least per faction first and see how that goes.
I felt this exact same way... until U50. I don't think they could physically raise the cap anymore without massive lag issues. The performance (from the server side not the client side) has been... bad.. to say the least.. since U50. I'm not sure if it's class master skills, some new skills or sets, WW changes, something is hitting the server and making it have to "think" alot more than it used too.
I honestly havent had much lag this update, occasionally around ballgroups as always yea but otherwise its the same for meZos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...0 -
LadyGP✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »Zos already knows Greyhost has to stay locked lol Im sure they're not in the mood to receive more angry messages.BardokRedSnow wrote: »@SneaK raises a good point, and I said something to the effect of, I'd rather deal with lag and bad performance, crashes etc in Greyhost than go to Vengeance. I would prefer Zos raises the pop back up in Greyhost also to at least somethin like 200 per faction, maybe inch it up to 150 at least per faction first and see how that goes.
I felt this exact same way... until U50. I don't think they could physically raise the cap anymore without massive lag issues. The performance (from the server side not the client side) has been... bad.. to say the least.. since U50. I'm not sure if it's class master skills, some new skills or sets, WW changes, something is hitting the server and making it have to "think" alot more than it used too.
I honestly havent had much lag this update, occasionally around ballgroups as always yea but otherwise its the same for me
Interesting. It's been pretty much all DC has talked about for us. Fights at glade/ales/chal tend to be really bad. We didn't even have a ball group in a fight the other night and it was just.. 5 clicks to get in a door, 9 clicks to cast vigor, etc. Ping was great and nothing else was running but zone chat was... lit... about the lag.LadyGP/xCatGuy
PC/NA
Having network issues? Discconects? DM me and I will help you troubleshoot with PingPlotter to figure out what is going on.1 -
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hey all, the new Blackreach Cyrodiil campaign is now open on all servers. Thank you!
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom it would be nice if the team would prepare a post about what the intended goal of opening Blackreach is. Will the Blackreach queue be monitored to see if there is interest in actually joining an additional campaign? Will the Grey Host queue be monitored to see if adding the extra campaign affects things?
Again, personally, and for a lot of other pvpers I know, the problem is not one of 'campaign choice' the problem is the GH population limit is too low and there isn't a good enough system to allow other campaigns to play in because there is not enough population queueing into them.
The queue also bugs out a lot since the group queue system was removed, if players queue and then join a group their queue has a significant chance of just stopping progress, this chance is highly increased if the player in the queue dares to do something like a BG. Its just a frustrating system and adding an extra campaign which will be completely empty for 95% of the day is not a good enough solution.Edited by Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO on June 17, 2026 9:56PM@Solar_Breeze
NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast)
EU ~ Izanagi: Banana Squad (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Roleplay Circle)3 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »Zos already knows Greyhost has to stay locked lol Im sure they're not in the mood to receive more angry messages.BardokRedSnow wrote: »@SneaK raises a good point, and I said something to the effect of, I'd rather deal with lag and bad performance, crashes etc in Greyhost than go to Vengeance. I would prefer Zos raises the pop back up in Greyhost also to at least somethin like 200 per faction, maybe inch it up to 150 at least per faction first and see how that goes.
I felt this exact same way... until U50. I don't think they could physically raise the cap anymore without massive lag issues. The performance (from the server side not the client side) has been... bad.. to say the least.. since U50. I'm not sure if it's class master skills, some new skills or sets, WW changes, something is hitting the server and making it have to "think" alot more than it used too.
I honestly havent had much lag this update, occasionally around ballgroups as always yea but otherwise its the same for me
Interesting. It's been pretty much all DC has talked about for us. Fights at glade/ales/chal tend to be really bad. We didn't even have a ball group in a fight the other night and it was just.. 5 clicks to get in a door, 9 clicks to cast vigor, etc. Ping was great and nothing else was running but zone chat was... lit... about the lag.
I imagine its because yalls fights are mostly tri faction fights lately which means way more people over there rn. Especially since this camp every day I get in we gotta get scrolls back and ad is usually missing theirs too lol. When we're fighting at arrius its bad also. Tried telling zos in the survey they need to prevent heals and shields of the same name from stacking and that would lower the lag, but you know, people been saying that for a while.Edited by BardokRedSnow on June 17, 2026 10:21PMZos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...0 -
Xirks✭✭✭ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hey all, the new Blackreach Cyrodiil campaign is now open on all servers. Thank you!
You've made many people happy with this.. Thank youFormer STAMINA NB DPS
Now just a 1hp wet noodle wielding failed and outdated class that still gets nerfed at every patch1 -
Xirks✭✭✭With this, can we also bring back the 3 way battlegrounds??? No one at all likes the 2 way bgs.Former STAMINA NB DPS
Now just a 1hp wet noodle wielding failed and outdated class that still gets nerfed at every patch0 -
amiiegee✭✭✭✭✭
I dont fully understand your sentence. But the new vengeance system is just failed, doesnt get used and is not populated. So it was a waste of time and ressources.
Nothing then - thats just the status right now.
Idk if ZOS is about to learn from that or not. I dont know if they keep pushing vengeance, wich is clearly not liked or if they work now on improving the normal cyrodiil (ik they stated they cant / dont want).
But unless they put some fat rewards into vengeance and not into GH, or push it with other incentives, they wont get vengeance filled.
The worst thing is, it was predictable and ZOS knew it, there is a reason why vengeance survey results were not posted anymore.
And the fact they reopened Blackreach within so short time, speaks for itself.
We simply cant discuss these facts away. The only one feedback ZOS needed was : majority didnt like vengeance and prefered Cyrodiil how it was. And wanted these to be fixed. We are the costumers, not some BETA testers.4 -
JohnG✭✭✭ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hey all, the new Blackreach Cyrodiil campaign is now open on all servers. Thank you!
Thank you for recognizing the mistake in removing blackreach and fixing it in a timely manner.2 -
LadyGP✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hey all, the new Blackreach Cyrodiil campaign is now open on all servers. Thank you!
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom it would be nice if the team would prepare a post about what the intended goal of opening Blackreach is. Will the Blackreach queue be monitored to see if there is interest in actually joining an additional campaign? Will the Grey Host queue be monitored to see if adding the extra campaign affects things?
Again, personally, and for a lot of other pvpers I know, the problem is not one of 'campaign choice' the problem is the GH population limit is too low and there isn't a good enough system to allow other campaigns to play in because there is not enough population queueing into them.
The queue also bugs out a lot since the group queue system was removed, if players queue and then join a group their queue has a significant chance of just stopping progress, this chance is highly increased if the player in the queue dares to do something like a BG. Its just a frustrating system and adding an extra campaign which will be completely empty for 95% of the day is not a good enough solution.
Honestly, I think the goal at this exact moment is just to take pressure off of the GH queue. The rest of it will probablly be a month or two of looking at data across all the campaigns, and then waiting to see how this "new smaller map" thing plays out.
Who knows this smaller map thing might be the thing everyone falls in loves with and stops going to GH - I literally know nothing about this other than its a smaller updated map.
I think given Vengence just launched and they have a new map or something coming... I wouldn't expect drastic swings until said map is launched and they can get some data on it.
Thats just my.. looking from the outside in.. perspective anyways.LadyGP/xCatGuy
PC/NA
Having network issues? Discconects? DM me and I will help you troubleshoot with PingPlotter to figure out what is going on.0 -
LadyGP✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
I dont fully understand your sentence. But the new vengeance system is just failed, doesnt get used and is not populated. So it was a waste of time and ressources.
Nothing then - thats just the status right now.
Idk if ZOS is about to learn from that or not. I dont know if they keep pushing vengeance, wich is clearly not liked or if they work now on improving the normal cyrodiil (ik they stated they cant / dont want).
But unless they put some fat rewards into vengeance and not into GH, or push it with other incentives, they wont get vengeance filled.
The worst thing is, it was predictable and ZOS knew it, there is a reason why vengeance survey results were not posted anymore.
And the fact they reopened Blackreach within so short time, speaks for itself.
We simply cant discuss these facts away. The only one feedback ZOS needed was : majority didnt like vengeance and prefered Cyrodiil how it was. And wanted these to be fixed. We are the costumers, not some BETA testers.
This is the problem... studios that use FOMO/rewards to artificially fill their servers.. they all fail... always.
FOMO rewards was a trend 5-7 years ago that worked.. but it always fizzles out.
Please zos... don't do stuff like this. Whats that expression.. something about yellow water an rain?LadyGP/xCatGuy
PC/NA
Having network issues? Discconects? DM me and I will help you troubleshoot with PingPlotter to figure out what is going on.1 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭
We play Greyhost and carry on same as we did before when ravenwatch and Blackreach became dead servers. The name vengeance replacing ravenwatch literally doesn’t concern me at all. Ya get what you ask for.Zos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...0 -
BXR_Lonestar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why don’t people go to imperial city?
Two issues with IC right now.
1) The lag in there is something else. It's unplayable. I don't know what the issue is but every time I've been in there, the frames will freeze every 5 seconds on the spot, stall out, and then rubberband.
2) You can't accept the que once you get over 100 telvar due to the rules they put in place to prevent people from porting out of IC to save their telvar. So the moment you get 100 telvar on you, you are at a high risk of missing your que, and then you go back to the beginning of the que for GH.
It just wasn't an option. Period.2 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lag in IC? Brother I don’t know your pc specs but it may be time for a new one or a driver update. You shouldn’t have lag or performance issues in ICZos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...0 -
BXR_Lonestar✭✭✭✭✭
✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »@SneaK raises a good point, and I said something to the effect of, I'd rather deal with lag and bad performance, crashes etc in Greyhost than go to Vengeance. I would prefer Zos raises the pop back up in Greyhost also to at least somethin like 200 per faction, maybe inch it up to 150 at least per faction first and see how that goes.
I felt this exact same way... until U50. I don't think they could physically raise the cap anymore without massive lag issues. The performance (from the server side not the client side) has been... bad.. to say the least.. since U50. I'm not sure if it's class master skills, some new skills or sets, WW changes, something is hitting the server and making it have to "think" alot more than it used too.
Server performance in IC makes it clear that this isn't a population issue too. There's maybe a bar or two of population between all factions in IC, and the server lag is so bad it is unplayable. Which is a shame because I really enjoy my guilds weekly IC events, but the last two weeks and since the launch of u50, it is too laggy to play down there.
Yet the lag is tolerable in a poplocked GH campaign. Weird.
Overall, I think it is just time that if they want this game to be a 30 year game like WoW, they're going to need to upgrade the engine AND servers. It's been over a decade. Its time.3 -
amiiegee✭✭✭✭✭
I dont fully understand your sentence. But the new vengeance system is just failed, doesnt get used and is not populated. So it was a waste of time and ressources.
Nothing then - thats just the status right now.
Idk if ZOS is about to learn from that or not. I dont know if they keep pushing vengeance, wich is clearly not liked or if they work now on improving the normal cyrodiil (ik they stated they cant / dont want).
But unless they put some fat rewards into vengeance and not into GH, or push it with other incentives, they wont get vengeance filled.
The worst thing is, it was predictable and ZOS knew it, there is a reason why vengeance survey results were not posted anymore.
And the fact they reopened Blackreach within so short time, speaks for itself.
We simply cant discuss these facts away. The only one feedback ZOS needed was : majority didnt like vengeance and prefered Cyrodiil how it was. And wanted these to be fixed. We are the costumers, not some BETA testers.
@Gabriel_H ?!0 -
LadyGP✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »Lag in IC? Brother I don’t know your pc specs but it may be time for a new one or a driver update. You shouldn’t have lag or performance issues in IC
Brother I'm rocking a $4k pc with fiber and I get lag in IC.LadyGP/xCatGuy
PC/NA
Having network issues? Discconects? DM me and I will help you troubleshoot with PingPlotter to figure out what is going on.0 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »Lag in IC? Brother I don’t know your pc specs but it may be time for a new one or a driver update. You shouldn’t have lag or performance issues in IC
Brother I'm rocking a $4k pc with fiber and I get lag in IC.
Thats actually crazyZos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...0 -
moderatelyfatman✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »Lag in IC? Brother I don’t know your pc specs but it may be time for a new one or a driver update. You shouldn’t have lag or performance issues in IC
Brother I'm rocking a $4k pc with fiber and I get lag in IC.
Maybe a $5k PC will fix it?
1
