who do the mod team answer for/ to , zenimax or bethesda ????

heimdall14_9 · June 8

@ZOS_Kevin as the header states who do you mods answer for/to zenimax or bethesda ?

ZOS_Kevin · June 8

They answer to both depending on the circumstance. Is there something we can help clarify?

heimdall14_9 · June 8

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

They answer to both depending on the circumstance. Is there something we can help clarify?

can you and i message outside of open forums where i risk being put on my last suspension so i can lay out what id like clarity on or am i free to bring it up here ???

ZOS_Kevin · June 8

Feel free to DM me. Happy to review and bring it up to the correct folks internally.

heimdall14_9 · June 10

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Feel free to DM me. Happy to review and bring it up to the correct folks internally.

i sent you that DM on the 8th when do you think you'll be getting back to me on it or not going to ??

heimdall14_9 · June 12

@ZOS_Kevin

ive given you a few days to get back to me on my DM i sent you , i feel you should of already had the offical info asked for being everything that had been going on around the topic .. so ill now ask you again here since you refuse to do so in DMs

am writing to address the complete failure to provide a factual, detailed response to a clearly documented violation of official policy, specifically regarding the statement you provided on Page 9 of my closed thread, hard facts about wizards wardrobe breaking the add-on terms and CoC.

The issue here is the massive gap between a highly detailed, data-backed proof of a system violation and the completely empty corporate brush-off used to dismiss it.

1. The Detailed Case for a Violation
The argument I put forward on the boards is built entirely on objective metrics and the game’s own written rules:

Inside a Trial, time is a scoring metric that dictates leaderboard placement.

The development team intentionally locks the Armory system and UI respecs inside active Trials specifically to stop on-the-fly optimization and preserve a fair playing field.

Certain non-UI add-ons completely bypass that manual restriction, executing over 100 separate actions—instantly swapping gear pieces, skills, and Champion Points—in approximately 250 milliseconds with zero player inputs.

Over a standard 3-boss Trial speed run, this automated execution hands a 2.75-minute advantage over any player doing it manually.

Under the literal text of the official Elder Scrolls Online Code of Conduct Section 5.2 (Abusing Scoring Systems) and the master ZeniMax Terms of Service Term 5.1 (Unapproved Third-Party Applications and Automated Gameplay Devices), using outside code to automate multiple gameplay adjustments to directly manipulate a scoring metric fits the exact criteria of a system abuse.

2. The Total Lack of Detail in Your Response
Despite being presented with a clear structural contradiction, your direct response was as follows:

"Hi All, just wanted to follow up here. We want to reiterate that currently, we do not see an issue with Wizards Wardrobe and do not consider it breaking ToS. Our stance has not changed here. We have shared this before, but wanted to make sure we followed up here given the thread commentary. Thank you for sharing your opinions about this add-on."

3. The Reality of How This Was Handled
To be entirely direct: this response is a generic brush-off, not a factual policy defense. A real answer requires squaring the circle. If the game mechanics explicitly lock the UI and Armory systems at start of Trial to keep the scoring fair, how does an outside script bypassing that exact restriction with zero player inputs not violate Code of Conduct Section 5.2?

You completely refused to touch the math, address the literal text of Term 5.1, or provide a single shred of detailed policy analysis. You offered zero factual proof to back up your stance, choosing instead to label a technical violation as mere "opinions."

Furthermore, while the forum crowd was allowed to hassle me, derail the technical data with personal commentary, and use platform-shaming tactics to protect their competitive advantage—which was then used as an administrative excuse to close The Automation Crisis and Wizards Wardrobe threads entirely—my account is the one that has been penalized and left on its last leg.

I am facing heavy account restrictions simply for trying to UP-HOLD THE GAMES and its standards as pointed forth by the Terms of Service, while the automated advantages that compromise leaderboard integrity remain protected by administrative silence.

A simple statement of "we do not see an issue" does not erase the math, nor does it address the selective enforcement of your written legal terms. I am asking for a direct, detailed clarification on how 0-input macro automation inside locked environments complies with the text of Section 5.2.

i understand you might try and use this to ban me from these forums because i refuse to be ignored or brushed off about this issue but unfortunately thats how its been thus far both openly and privately

valenwood_vegan · June 12

Again with this? The response that was previously provided about the addon was crystal clear. I don't see why they should be under some sort of obligation to provide a more detailed response to a player's opinion and a bunch of AI generated arguments based on it, and I sure hope no further dev or staff time is wasted on this.

Umbracat449 · June 12

Too often with vexatious litigation eventually gets you a slap from the courts...

heimdall14_9 · June 12

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

Again with this? The response that was previously provided about the addon was crystal clear. I don't see why they should be under some sort of obligation to provide a more detailed response to a player's opinion and a bunch of AI generated arguments based on it, and I sure hope no further dev or staff time is wasted on this.

you say crystal clear ? with 0 facts on anything just thoughts and opinions

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/689126/the-automation-crisis-why-none-ui-add-ons-on-console-violate-official-policy#latest
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/688434/ui-respec-v-ww-add-on-from-an-psn-main#latest
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/692761/hard-facts-about-wizards-wardrobe-breaking-the-add-on-terms-and-coc#latest

and this the responce to all that

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/12234053/#Comment_12234053

0 ToS backing , 0 technical backing , when ToS violation's was stated and proven by actions being made

not so clear if your wanting an answer but i guess if you was hiding something or covering something up this be a great response if the person that looked everything up 1st excepted being brushed off as their response

PeacefulAnarchy · 12:04AM

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

Again with this? The response that was previously provided about the addon was crystal clear. I don't see why they should be under some sort of obligation to provide a more detailed response to a player's opinion and a bunch of AI generated arguments based on it, and I sure hope no further dev or staff time is wasted on this.

you say crystal clear ? with 0 facts on anything just thoughts and opinions

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/689126/the-automation-crisis-why-none-ui-add-ons-on-console-violate-official-policy#latest
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/688434/ui-respec-v-ww-add-on-from-an-psn-main#latest
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/692761/hard-facts-about-wizards-wardrobe-breaking-the-add-on-terms-and-coc#latest

and this the responce to all that

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/12234053/#Comment_12234053

0 ToS backing , 0 technical backing , when ToS violation's was stated and proven by actions being made

not so clear if your wanting an answer but i guess if you was hiding something or covering something up this be a great response if the person that looked everything up 1st excepted being brushed off as their response

18:
C. Waiver. The failure of ZeniMax to exercise or enforce any right or provision of these Terms of Service will not constitute waiver of such right or provision. Any waiver of any provision of these Terms of Service will be effective only if expressly acknowledged in a writing signed by ZeniMax.

ZOS can choose to not enforce a provision as they see fit. This does not restrict their ability to enforce it in the future, or on other people/cases.

So even if you were correct, it doesn't matter, they can do whatever they want. They've decided this is not something they are going to restrict and been clear about that. Whether you know or understand or agree with their reasons doesn't matter to them.

valenwood_vegan · 12:53AM

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »

18:
C. Waiver. The failure of ZeniMax to exercise or enforce any right or provision of these Terms of Service will not constitute waiver of such right or provision. Any waiver of any provision of these Terms of Service will be effective only if expressly acknowledged in a writing signed by ZeniMax.

ZOS can choose to not enforce a provision as they see fit. This does not restrict their ability to enforce it in the future, or on other people/cases.

So even if you were correct, it doesn't matter, they can do whatever they want. They've decided this is not something they are going to restrict and been clear about that. Whether you know or understand or agree with their reasons doesn't matter to them.

It's pointless, they will just repeat the same stuff endlessly but yeah why not. Also relevant,

Section 2D, Game Mods, in part:

EXCEPT AS PROHIBITED BY APPLICABLE LAW AND SUBJECT TO THE STATUTORY OBLIGATIONS (AS DEFINED IN SECTION 1), ZENIMAX RESERVES THE RIGHT (BUT HAS NO OBLIGATION EXCEPT AS REQUIRED BY LAW) TO OFFER, MAKE AVAILABLE, REVIEW, REMOVE, BLOCK, EDIT, MOVE OR DISABLE GAME MODS FOR ANY REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE, AND HAS NO LIABILITY OF ANY KIND WITH RESPECT TO GAME MODS, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION WHEN ZENIMAX DETERMINES THAT A GAME MOD VIOLATES THESE TERMS OF SERVICE OR THE EDITOR EULA. THE DECISION TO REMOVE A GAME MOD AT ANY TIME IS IN ZENIMAX'S SOLE AND FINAL DISCRETION.

To the maximum extent permitted by law and subject to the Statutory Obligations (as defined in Section 1), ZeniMax does not assume any responsibility or liability for Game Mods or for the removal of any Game Mods for any failure to or delay in removing, any Game Mod.

So again EVEN if it was all true and the mod is in violation, zos still doesn't *have to* do anything. They don't have to give notice, or provide some detailed explanation or hold some kind of legal-type fair hearing on the matter or whatever is being sought here. Their game, their ToS, their rules, their discretion. I'd urge OP to drop it or to seek actual legal advice from an expert if they can't.

heimdall14_9 · 12:58AM

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

Again with this? The response that was previously provided about the addon was crystal clear. I don't see why they should be under some sort of obligation to provide a more detailed response to a player's opinion and a bunch of AI generated arguments based on it, and I sure hope no further dev or staff time is wasted on this.

you say crystal clear ? with 0 facts on anything just thoughts and opinions

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/689126/the-automation-crisis-why-none-ui-add-ons-on-console-violate-official-policy#latest
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/688434/ui-respec-v-ww-add-on-from-an-psn-main#latest
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/692761/hard-facts-about-wizards-wardrobe-breaking-the-add-on-terms-and-coc#latest

and this the responce to all that

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/12234053/#Comment_12234053

0 ToS backing , 0 technical backing , when ToS violation's was stated and proven by actions being made

not so clear if your wanting an answer but i guess if you was hiding something or covering something up this be a great response if the person that looked everything up 1st excepted being brushed off as their response

18:
C. Waiver. The failure of ZeniMax to exercise or enforce any right or provision of these Terms of Service will not constitute waiver of such right or provision. Any waiver of any provision of these Terms of Service will be effective only if expressly acknowledged in a writing signed by ZeniMax.

ZOS can choose to not enforce a provision as they see fit. This does not restrict their ability to enforce it in the future, or on other people/cases.

So even if you were correct, it doesn't matter, they can do whatever they want. They've decided this is not something they are going to restrict and been clear about that. Whether you know or understand or agree with their reasons doesn't matter to them.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/12234053/#Comment_12234053

doesnt seem so expressly, when asked specific questions but get 0 technical support in the response just thoughts and opinions, not even stating they invoke the 18:C Waiver ... and acknowledge they know TRIAL LEADERBOARD'S are affected by ADD-ONS and see it as fair , that players who chose to not play with add-ons are being burden by them and that this same add-on automates game actions where other systems are locked out ... not 1 claim not 2 claims but 3 claims and not one technical responce for any claim

Luneca · 3:10AM

The answer is whateve they determine to be fit. But realisticly, you can't expect them to disable functionality that many players may like or even rely on because you don't like it.

Personal example: I don't use any add-ons to "help" me PvP, but others do. Do I call for them to be destroyed into the ground, even though I think it's a crutch? No.

An the reason why is because even though it might confer an advantage, at the end of the day, that advantage does not really change my enjoyment of the game -- not enough for me to care about it.

The add-on is only one of many variables that determine the end result. Even when people used the old Miat's, you know the one that was actually a massive crutch and shut down stealth, I didn't complain then nor did I care. I laughed becuase I knew that the crutch would eventually crack and the users would fall on their faces.

No one knows the true opinion of ZOS beyond what their representatives post publicly. Even now, no one knows if they are looking at changing the API or restricting it at some point in the future.

But what we do know is that they are not going to be doing it at this time and it isn't a priority for them, regardless of what you think or what I think.

It really goes back to the game and how players play in the game and interact with the world with limitations decided by the developers or overall game design . Here, they apparently disagree to adding a limitation on that add-on, so we will be playing in a world with it.

Gabriel_H · 3:39AM

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Over a standard 3-boss Trial speed run, this automated execution hands a 2.75-minute advantage over any player doing it manually.

Not to repeat myself from last time, but:

This is the fundamental flaw in your premise.

With the exception of one or two bosses there is zero need to swap anything. The overall loss to time from not switching from trash set to boss set is sub-30 seconds, and I'm being generous on that. An optimal setup will keep that sub-10 seconds.

Note: These addons are also available to you. And as ZOS expand the console system to everyone. Plus ZOS have already said they do no have a problem with these addons.

heimdall14_9 · 5:39AM

Gabriel_H wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Over a standard 3-boss Trial speed run, this automated execution hands a 2.75-minute advantage over any player doing it manually.

Not to repeat myself from last time, but:

This is the fundamental flaw in your premise.

With the exception of one or two bosses there is zero need to swap anything. The overall loss to time from not switching from trash set to boss set is sub-30 seconds, and I'm being generous on that. An optimal setup will keep that sub-10 seconds.

Note: These addons are also available to you. And as ZOS expand the console system to everyone. Plus ZOS have already said they do no have a problem with these addons.

you play where PC EU by your signature somewhere that has always had add-ons , i play on ps5 somewhere that for close to 11 years hasn't had add-ons when leaderboards times are steady and almost predictable for 4 to 5 years than get turned upside down to where leaderboard times are down 6-8 minutes and even as high as 12 minutes within 3-6 months , long time guilds disbanding , and big population leave the game totally , your not seeing 60% more players with titles you know playing along side with them they did one of two things paid for a run or got carried in a run as they are laying dead in a normal farm run

but this ain to argue with or about the system this is about getting a real response to real questions put forth using real ToS and real actions , not opinions or thoughts

for your environment add-ons has always been there = no issue
PS5 they always been removed and once added showed the differences and set the division

HatchetHaro · 6:02AM

Astounding how you're starting this whole thing up again.

heimdall14_9 · 6:08AM

Luneca wrote: »

The answer is whateve they determine to be fit. But realisticly, you can't expect them to disable functionality that many players may like or even rely on because you don't like it.

Personal example: I don't use any add-ons to "help" me PvP, but others do. Do I call for them to be destroyed into the ground, even though I think it's a crutch? No.

An the reason why is because even though it might confer an advantage, at the end of the day, that advantage does not really change my enjoyment of the game -- not enough for me to care about it.

The add-on is only one of many variables that determine the end result. Even when people used the old Miat's, you know the one that was actually a massive crutch and shut down stealth, I didn't complain then nor did I care. I laughed becuase I knew that the crutch would eventually crack and the users would fall on their faces.

No one knows the true opinion of ZOS beyond what their representatives post publicly. Even now, no one knows if they are looking at changing the API or restricting it at some point in the future.

But what we do know is that they are not going to be doing it at this time and it isn't a priority for them, regardless of what you think or what I think.

It really goes back to the game and how players play in the game and interact with the world with limitations decided by the developers or overall game design . Here, they apparently disagree to adding a limitation on that add-on, so we will be playing in a world with it.

can i ask you a real question ? where in any of the 3 post do i claim zos should remove something because i didnt like it ?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/689126/the-automation-crisis-why-none-ui-add-ons-on-console-violate-official-policy#latest
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/688434/ui-respec-v-ww-add-on-from-an-psn-main#latest
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/692761/hard-facts-about-wizards-wardrobe-breaking-the-add-on-terms-and-coc#latest
dont see it in any one of the technical breakdowns that support my claim , yes i have openly stated i dont use add-ons but ive always shown technical information on what i claimed not personal opinion

DestroyerPewnack · 6:37AM

What is it that you want? Do you want ZOS to ban Wizard's Wardrobe in trials? Or do you want them to change their ToS to make it clear that Wizard's Wardrobe is allowed in trials?

imPDA · 6:44AM

There are no sections 5.1 or 5.2 in ToS, so I assume, everything written is about CoC.

5.1 You are forbidden from using any unapproved third-party applications<...>
WW is officially approved at this point. Done.

5.2 In relation to online/competitive games, you will not exploit any bug, or abuse any game system (such as the scoring or award systems) in a ZeniMax game, Service, forum, or other games or services provided by ZeniMax. You will not intentionally use or share any bug found within any ZeniMax Game, real or fictitious, regardless of whether or not it grants an unfair advantage. You will not directly or indirectly communicate the existence of any such bug to any other user of the ZeniMax Service (in game or on a ZeniMax Service). Report bugs and exploits using the in-game portal or via help.elderscrollsonline.com. Unacceptable behaviors will also include any conduct that is considered by ZeniMax to be cheating (e.g. match fixing and collusion) or other unsportsmanlike conduct such as use of secondary accounts, intentionally losing and bribery.
It is not an abuse of scoring/award, not a bug of scoring system, etc. With this enthusiasm you better fight real scoring abuse in Cyrodiil when people collude to get killed by other person many times in a row and let this person gain high amount of AP and take first place to become an emperor.

What else requires clarification?

heimdall14_9 · 6:52AM

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Astounding how you're starting this whole thing up again.

ive been personally attacked for my disabilities , i was then attacked for using community advice in the use of AI to help them disabilities, i was moderated suspended, had my integrity questioned all while asking ZOS for an official ruling on technical issues and violations of ToS just to get told

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/12234053/#Comment_12234053

response for some reason doesnt feel fitting i dont know may be its the lack of detail stating how or why they find their findings after giving detailed claims of ToS violations

nevermind the topic is this the kind of response youd take over clear violations of the ToS after being treated like this from a community mainly made up of PC players that is just trying to protect something they've been let to have for so long

Soarora · 7:05AM

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Astounding how you're starting this whole thing up again.

ive been personally attacked for my disabilities , i was then attacked for using community advice in the use of AI to help them disabilities, i was moderated suspended, had my integrity questioned all while asking ZOS for an official ruling on technical issues and violations of ToS just to get told

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/12234053/#Comment_12234053

response for some reason doesnt feel fitting i dont know may be its the lack of detail stating how or why they find their findings after giving detailed claims of ToS violations

nevermind the topic is this the kind of response youd take over clear violations of the ToS after being treated like this from a community mainly made up of PC players that is just trying to protect something they've been let to have for so long

I’m sure the people attacking you were also moderated, though. People do have a point that the AI isn’t great to talk to, but my understanding is that it’s more comfortable for you so I don’t think people should’ve been so hard on it, since you said you look over and edit the AI output, not just copy and paste. That said, you’ve been told by two different ZOS employees that ZOS considers the addon to be fine. Both with different wording. And if you want specifics, lots of people have broken it down for you. I know they aren’t ZOS, but again, ZOS considers the addon to be fine.

At this point I don’t think I even understand what your problem with it is anymore. Are you trying to scorepush but feel you can’t now because your method is being outclassed by wizards? Is it still about the auto-swap that most people don’t use? The respecs that Wizard can’t do? The fact that respecs were removed from scored content but Wizard wasn’t (again, Wizard can’t do respecs)?

HatchetHaro · 7:11AM

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Astounding how you're starting this whole thing up again.

ive been personally attacked for my disabilities , i was then attacked for using community advice in the use of AI to help them disabilities, i was moderated suspended, had my integrity questioned all while asking ZOS for an official ruling on technical issues and violations of ToS just to get told

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/12234053/#Comment_12234053

response for some reason doesnt feel fitting i dont know may be its the lack of detail stating how or why they find their findings after giving detailed claims of ToS violations

nevermind the topic is this the kind of response youd take over clear violations of the ToS after being treated like this from a community mainly made up of PC players that is just trying to protect something they've been let to have for so long

Just to respond to your last point, Wizard's Wardrobe is available on console.

Also, I'm not sure where you got the assumption that this community is mainly PC players.

Gabriel_H · 7:12AM

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Over a standard 3-boss Trial speed run, this automated execution hands a 2.75-minute advantage over any player doing it manually.

Not to repeat myself from last time, but:

This is the fundamental flaw in your premise.

With the exception of one or two bosses there is zero need to swap anything. The overall loss to time from not switching from trash set to boss set is sub-30 seconds, and I'm being generous on that. An optimal setup will keep that sub-10 seconds.

Note: These addons are also available to you. And as ZOS expand the console system to everyone. Plus ZOS have already said they do no have a problem with these addons.

you play where PC EU by your signature somewhere that has always had add-ons , i play on ps5 somewhere that for close to 11 years hasn't had add-ons when leaderboards times are steady and almost predictable for 4 to 5 years than get turned upside down to where leaderboard times are down 6-8 minutes and even as high as 12 minutes within 3-6 months , long time guilds disbanding , and big population leave the game totally , your not seeing 60% more players with titles you know playing along side with them they did one of two things paid for a run or got carried in a run as they are laying dead in a normal farm run

but this ain to argue with or about the system this is about getting a real response to real questions put forth using real ToS and real actions , not opinions or thoughts

for your environment add-ons has always been there = no issue
PS5 they always been removed and once added showed the differences and set the division

Right, so your complaint is something changed that brought consoles up to the same level as PC in preparation for crossplay which will see a huge increase in accessible players/groups for console.

Addons do not cut leaderboard times by 12 minutes, over even 6 minutes. Heck, your own claim tops out at 2.75 minutes.

heimdall14_9 · 7:17AM

this is the reason i tried doing this privately because i dont want to sit here and have yet another derailed argument about off topic things i want a direct technical response to my technical claims something no player can give just their opinion / argument so can i please ask everyone to stop giving your opinions and thoughts and let ZOS speak for themselves in a matter that thoughts and opinions from outsiders aint going to do any good thank you

HatchetHaro · 7:22AM

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

this is the reason i tried doing this privately because i dont want to sit here and have yet another derailed argument about off topic things i want a direct technical response to my technical claims something no player can give just their opinion / argument so can i please ask everyone to stop giving your opinions and thoughts and let ZOS speak for themselves in a matter that thoughts and opinions from outsiders aint going to do any good thank you

The forums is a public place for anyone and everyone to share their feedback, communicate, and debate. If you truly want a private word with ZOS, you can reach out to their support via https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/.

Gabriel_H · 7:26AM

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

this is the reason i tried doing this privately because i dont want to sit here and have yet another derailed argument about off topic things i want a direct technical response to my technical claims something no player can give just their opinion / argument so can i please ask everyone to stop giving your opinions and thoughts and let ZOS speak for themselves in a matter that thoughts and opinions from outsiders aint going to do any good thank you

Pointing out ZOS have given their answer that they do not have a problem with these addons isn't opinion, it's fact.
Pointing out your contradictory claims on time "saved" isn't opinion, it's fact.
Pointing out that addons do not reduce the time taken anywhere near the amount you claim isn't opinion, it's experience.

Maitsukas · 7:28AM

Look, you've had an extremely hostile tone in all of these related comments about that add-on. If you don't know the inner workings of the add-on, the API that ZOS provides, the meaning of specific points in the ToS and can't accept the answers the ZOS employees themselves have given multiple times, then it's time for you to move on.

My advice: simply don't acknowledge the existence of the add-on at all and keep any thoughts of it buried somewhere where you can forget about it. Plenty of players already do that for stuff they personally don't want to interact with like Companions or Tales of Tribute

heimdall14_9 · 7:39AM

Gabriel_H wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Over a standard 3-boss Trial speed run, this automated execution hands a 2.75-minute advantage over any player doing it manually.

Not to repeat myself from last time, but:

This is the fundamental flaw in your premise.

With the exception of one or two bosses there is zero need to swap anything. The overall loss to time from not switching from trash set to boss set is sub-30 seconds, and I'm being generous on that. An optimal setup will keep that sub-10 seconds.

Note: These addons are also available to you. And as ZOS expand the console system to everyone. Plus ZOS have already said they do no have a problem with these addons.

you play where PC EU by your signature somewhere that has always had add-ons , i play on ps5 somewhere that for close to 11 years hasn't had add-ons when leaderboards times are steady and almost predictable for 4 to 5 years than get turned upside down to where leaderboard times are down 6-8 minutes and even as high as 12 minutes within 3-6 months , long time guilds disbanding , and big population leave the game totally , your not seeing 60% more players with titles you know playing along side with them they did one of two things paid for a run or got carried in a run as they are laying dead in a normal farm run

but this ain to argue with or about the system this is about getting a real response to real questions put forth using real ToS and real actions , not opinions or thoughts

for your environment add-ons has always been there = no issue
PS5 they always been removed and once added showed the differences and set the division

Right, so your complaint is something changed that brought consoles up to the same level as PC in preparation for crossplay which will see a huge increase in accessible players/groups for console.

Addons do not cut leaderboard times by 12 minutes, over even 6 minutes. Heck, your own claim tops out at 2.75 minutes.

just because i used the the lowest amount of time and not the highest in my technical breakdowns ( so as to not have to argue times on-top of everything else ) means about nothing but that i was trying to keep it fairly general

Gabriel_H wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

this is the reason i tried doing this privately because i dont want to sit here and have yet another derailed argument about off topic things i want a direct technical response to my technical claims something no player can give just their opinion / argument so can i please ask everyone to stop giving your opinions and thoughts and let ZOS speak for themselves in a matter that thoughts and opinions from outsiders aint going to do any good thank you

Pointing out ZOS have given their answer that they do not have a problem with these addons isn't opinion, it's fact.
Pointing out your contradictory claims on time "saved" isn't opinion, it's fact.
Pointing out that addons do not reduce the time taken anywhere near the amount you claim isn't opinion, it's experience.

where have you played for 11 years and then had a add-on added to gain your said experience in the change in run times ?

PC EU ?

heimdall14_9 · 7:44AM

Maitsukas wrote: »

Look, you've had an extremely hostile tone in all of these related comments about that add-on. If you don't know the inner workings of the add-on, the API that ZOS provides, the meaning of specific points in the ToS and can't accept the answers the ZOS employees themselves have given multiple times, then it's time for you to move on.

My advice: simply don't acknowledge the existence of the add-on at all and keep any thoughts of it buried somewhere where you can forget about it. Plenty of players already do that for stuff they personally don't want to interact with like Companions or Tales of Tribute

ill disband all 5 my guilds than as these the things the player talk about wanting to see fixed within the game i guess i tell them as im kicking them out the door im just going to brush you off like zos did me

and besides the 1 response ive posted here and the two derailed closures show me a response from ZOS on anything ive asked of them

Gabriel_H · 8:01AM

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

where have you played for 11 years and then had a add-on added to gain your said experience in the change in run times ?

My experience comes from knowing every dungeon and every trial like the back of my hand, not from an addon.

My speed runs come from knowing how to stack and place mobs as a tank. How to keep DDs from getting themselves killed, and the best possible positioning, and strategy - which by the way, is usually different from what the established strategies that are incorporated into positioning addons, which is why I don't use them.

heimdall14_9 · 8:30AM

Gabriel_H wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

where have you played for 11 years and then had a add-on added to gain your said experience in the change in run times ?

My experience comes from knowing every dungeon and every trial like the back of my hand, not from an addon.

My speed runs come from knowing how to stack and place mobs as a tank. How to keep DDs from getting themselves killed, and the best possible positioning, and strategy - which by the way, is usually different from what the established strategies that are incorporated into positioning addons, which is why I don't use them.

you and i could probably discuss trail mechs' and raid set up all day long but the thing is i didnt come here for that as i get enough of that in-game i came here to get attention to the problems that I see and hear players wanting to or already doing so leaving the game over some of it might even affect me but thats more my PVP post as i have a mixed of guilds and do a mix of things but the big thing is i never wanted it to be a personal debate over , over all knowledge of every inch of the game. i wanted it to be about ToS and provable actions not personal opinions are wants