WW Stealth detection should cost a GCD and resources

Avran_Sylt · June 10

Not just tapping crouch.

Or at the very least have a reduced range and not be infinite like the Sentry set, if it's balanced around being an all-in-one kind of class.

Avran_Sylt · June 10

Also just a rant, NB has never been good in PvP. It's only seen a "benefit" when subclassing into other classes recently. All of which whose pureclasses have been buffed for raw damage or mitigation, while NB Pureclassing has situational damage based on RNG and investment from other sources and Post-damage. I hope NB at least gets a bralwer pass withs its update but I don't think this team has the chops to make anything other than an easily bypassed stealth mechanic that gets overwritten by combat.

Oblivion_Protocol · June 10

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Also just a rant, NB has never been good in PvP.

Did…you somehow manage to avoid the NB gankers of yesteryear? Or the players who could deal mountains of damage while rolling all over the place like a demented hamster ball? I’m sure there are quite a few former NB mains and their victims who would joyfully disagree with this sentiment.

Luneca · June 10

Again, WW is really poorly designed and implemented right now due to the fact that it's essentially partially "automated" attack and defense.

Where others have to spend build choices like a 5 piece, mythic, monster helm, etc. -- WW is doing none of that and then gets the power of those choices on top of the WW system.

No one can argue it's balanced at all, because it objectively cannot be when it's giving you power for no real investment on top of what you already have, when transformed.

The detect is st ronger than a 5 piece set of gear. And what's the excuse that anyone defending it can make?

"Oh well, the lore"
"Oh well, WW has one bar"

Or some other nonsense.

I'd argue that it doesn't need a cost, it needs to be removed OR there needs to be a build decision made to access it.

Wuuffyy · June 10

Luneca wrote: »

Again, WW is really poorly designed and implemented right now due to the fact that it's essentially partially "automated" attack and defense.

Where others have to spend build choices like a 5 piece, mythic, monster helm, etc. -- WW is doing none of that and then gets the power of those choices on top of the WW system.

No one can argue it's balanced at all, because it objectively cannot be when it's giving you power for no real investment on top of what you already have, when transformed.

The detect is st ronger than a 5 piece set of gear. And what's the excuse that anyone defending it can make?

"Oh well, the lore"
"Oh well, WW has one bar"

Or some other nonsense.

I'd argue that it doesn't need a cost, it needs to be removed OR there needs to be a build decision made to access it.

My goodness, you're here too. It is unbelievable how you've managed to come to such a resolute consensus within 1 singular patch day whereas I'm still seeing a healthy mix of individuals (werewolf and non-werewolf) and I just couldn’t determine how a non-werewolf player could… ah nevermind.

Werewolf stealth detect does cost resources... just like camo hunter, OP. 5k or so stam each and every use with a 3 second cooldown in b/w uses (think the effect is 5 or so seconds like camo hunter too but could be wrong).

Turtle_Bot · June 10

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Also just a rant, NB has never been good in PvP.

Bruh... I can't even, this cannot be serious. I know NB mains are biased as [snip], but this right here just cannot be serious.

Kalthea · June 10

So, let me get this straight. You're upset that a Werewolf can detect you in stealth? Something that was also complained about BEFORE these changes? I seem to recall a couple posts complaining about being able to be detected in stealth.

From the sounds of it, you just want there to be zero counters to invisibility, or to have builds solely dedicated to invisibility detection, which at that point would remove the options for custom play and require a PvP team to have the detection set up on their team. Because if they DIDN'T have the stealth detection on their team, invisibility would just become too rampant.

You are proposing a stagnant build environment, and I'm not sure you realize that. Also, Nightblades have always been the go-to for burst takedowns in PvP due to their large variety of movement abilities, paired with a solid melee setup they have managed to delete targets just fine.

Once again, a forum post has given me good reason to be excited for Vengeance mode.

Avran_Sylt · June 10

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Also just a rant, NB has never been good in PvP.

Did…you somehow manage to avoid the NB gankers of yesteryear? Or the players who could deal mountains of damage while rolling all over the place like a demented hamster ball? I’m sure there are quite a few former NB mains and their victims who would joyfully disagree with this sentiment.

Literally an NB ganker, I know what it's about. It's a playstyle that preys on unbuilt players. It's not viable against players actually built for PvP. NB just so happens to be the only reliable source of out of nowhere stealth via cloak.

Wuuffyy · June 10

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Also just a rant, NB has never been good in PvP.

Did…you somehow manage to avoid the NB gankers of yesteryear? Or the players who could deal mountains of damage while rolling all over the place like a demented hamster ball? I’m sure there are quite a few former NB mains and their victims who would joyfully disagree with this sentiment.

Literally an NB ganker, I know what it's about. It's a playstyle that preys on unbuilt players. It's not viable against players actually built for PvP. NB just so happens to be the only reliable source of out of nowhere stealth via cloak.

You think imploding someone’s health bar from complete health is only a noob-killing tool?

Typically, nightblades don’t kill me independently because I will LoS, etc…. BUT they are a HUGE thorn in my side while I’m fighting out in the open (I.E other people) where without detects one cannot reasonably pressure a nightblade akin to the pressure being received at little to no risk from said nightblade (I.E gank attempt, fail, cloak, run away, rinse and repeat)

Silvains_Demon · June 10

I have fun with the NB and can play a pure build just fine, so I don't know what OP is talking about.

My only complaint about WW right now would be just that they need to calm down the visual animation a bit. It darkens my screen too much at the start and even worse when it ends. Other than that, it is a fun thing right now. I really hope that a vampire rework can meet this sort of hype.

Wuuffyy · June 10

Silvains_Demon wrote: »

I have fun with the NB and can play a pure build just fine, so I don't know what OP is talking about.

My only complaint about WW right now would be just that they need to calm down the visual animation a bit. It darkens my screen too much at the start and even worse when it ends. Other than that, it is a fun thing right now. I really hope that a vampire rework can meet this sort of hype.

The VFX when the prowl detect ends is violently blinding lol. Like I’m being blinded by very old Templar back in the day (this use to be a thing of if I remember right)

ViggyBoi · June 11

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Also just a rant, NB has never been good in PvP.

Troll king got a new 2 piece bonus

Luneca · June 11

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Luneca wrote: »

Again, WW is really poorly designed and implemented right now due to the fact that it's essentially partially "automated" attack and defense.

Where others have to spend build choices like a 5 piece, mythic, monster helm, etc. -- WW is doing none of that and then gets the power of those choices on top of the WW system.

No one can argue it's balanced at all, because it objectively cannot be when it's giving you power for no real investment on top of what you already have, when transformed.

The detect is st ronger than a 5 piece set of gear. And what's the excuse that anyone defending it can make?

"Oh well, the lore"
"Oh well, WW has one bar"

Or some other nonsense.

I'd argue that it doesn't need a cost, it needs to be removed OR there needs to be a build decision made to access it.

My goodness, you're here too. It is unbelievable how you've managed to come to such a resolute consensus within 1 singular patch day whereas I'm still seeing a healthy mix of individuals (werewolf and non-werewolf) and I just couldn’t determine how a non-werewolf player could… ah nevermind.

Werewolf stealth detect does cost resources... just like camo hunter, OP. 5k or so stam each and every use with a 3 second cooldown in b/w uses (think the effect is 5 or so seconds like camo hunter too but could be wrong).

It's tough that you can't stop me from opposing the WW changes no matter how or what you post. Again, it's a forum, people are free to disagree with your viewpoint. Nowhere do I state my view is a consensus and anyone is free to ignore any viewpoint or position I have or adapt.

For some reason you seem intent on doing the opposite and sprinkling bait at every turn, but it's not going to work because I respect your opinion and viewpoint even though you could never defend it in the PTS section or elsewhere. For the last time, I'm not going to bother responding to your baiting attempts any further.

Wuuffyy · June 11

Luneca wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Luneca wrote: »

Again, WW is really poorly designed and implemented right now due to the fact that it's essentially partially "automated" attack and defense.

Where others have to spend build choices like a 5 piece, mythic, monster helm, etc. -- WW is doing none of that and then gets the power of those choices on top of the WW system.

No one can argue it's balanced at all, because it objectively cannot be when it's giving you power for no real investment on top of what you already have, when transformed.

The detect is st ronger than a 5 piece set of gear. And what's the excuse that anyone defending it can make?

"Oh well, the lore"
"Oh well, WW has one bar"

Or some other nonsense.

I'd argue that it doesn't need a cost, it needs to be removed OR there needs to be a build decision made to access it.

My goodness, you're here too. It is unbelievable how you've managed to come to such a resolute consensus within 1 singular patch day whereas I'm still seeing a healthy mix of individuals (werewolf and non-werewolf) and I just couldn’t determine how a non-werewolf player could… ah nevermind.

Werewolf stealth detect does cost resources... just like camo hunter, OP. 5k or so stam each and every use with a 3 second cooldown in b/w uses (think the effect is 5 or so seconds like camo hunter too but could be wrong).

It's tough that you can't stop me from opposing the WW changes no matter how or what you post. Again, it's a forum, people are free to disagree with your viewpoint. Nowhere do I state my view is a consensus and anyone is free to ignore any viewpoint or position I have or adapt.

For some reason you seem intent on doing the opposite and sprinkling bait at every turn, but it's not going to work because I respect your opinion and viewpoint even though you could never defend it in the PTS section or elsewhere. For the last time, I'm not going to bother responding to your baiting attempts any further.

You can disagree all you must my friend; you are absolutely more than welcome to. If, however, I go to someone's profile and find 2/3rds of their recent posts being about 1 topic within a select period (for example), providing an argument that falls woefully flat, ignoring any and all rebukes, and then that same individual claiming they have/there is 'no bias'... I tend to connect dots like any other logical person.

I myself am more than happy to provide feedback on each end of the balance budget whether that be nerf this or buff that so while there may be some bias- I am not blissfully ignorant to problems on either end.

What I mentioned way above includes scouring for ‘same-view’ posts even when op is incorrect (for example, the detect does indeed have a cost and pureclass NB (cloak/stealth/assassin playstyle) has a plethora of issues that make it both problematic to use and go against. This meaning it’s either the best thing since sliced bread or the worst thing in PvP for many reasons i.e conditional and situational).

(for any other readers- this is just a continuation of a conversation from a prior post on the same topic)

Oblivion_Protocol · June 12

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Literally an NB ganker, I know what it's about. It's a playstyle that preys on unbuilt players. It's not viable against players actually built for PvP. NB just so happens to be the only reliable source of out of nowhere stealth via cloak.

Yeah, you’re not serious in the slightest. Either that, or you do PVP like once a week. Good NB players can kill damn near anyone. Bad gankers just target low-HP players and spam stealth when they get caught by good players.