companions are a bit too overpowered in challenge difficulty

DrMedBorn · June 9

Having fun with the new mode but the companions are a bit too strong. I know they are here to help but they should be a little bit nerved because even on vestige they are way stronger than you and the game gets much much easier.

Just a little less damage/heal would do the trick

tomofhyrule · June 9

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/693773/difficulty-not-affecting-companions-and-other-observations#latest

tomofhyrule wrote: »

But… if the challenge is to do stuff the hard way, why are you then bringing Companions to make it easier? 🤔

Companions being unaffected by difficulty is a non-problem. It would be a lot more programming for something that would affect few people… and let’s face it, Companions don’t do much as it is. I see a huge difference since *I’m* the one tanking for *him*, and as such it does mean that I’m no longer outDPSing my Companion in full tank gear. It feels more like I need to protect him while he does damage, which is how my role is intended. For a DD with a tank Companion, now they can survive while you’re a glass cannon, exactly as intended. If you want them to fall over instantly when any enemy looks at them, then just put them away and you get what you want.

Gabriel_H · June 9

Ran some WEs with DD friends, their companions were out-dpsing them by a factor of 4 to 5.

I've already said this elsewhere, but it's worth repeating. All Challenge difficulty is is a self-imposed nerf you are choosing to do. You can get just as much, if not more of a challenge running around overland with no armour and jewellery, only sporting white weapons. If you want a real challenge, no pots, no buff food, no CPs.

There is no fundamental difference between the two, they are both self-imposed nerfs that you are choosing to take. The only difference overall is one is official.

And while I appreciate the effort that went into it, the official one is very much a sledgehammer. It's a macro level debuff. There are bosses in overland that are designed for some attacks to be blocked, not dodged. On Vestige they one-shot a full spec trial tank when blocked, and cannot be dodged.

I'll be running others through more WEs on Vestige at the weekend. I've already put together a tank build specifically for Vestige. It has over 60k health. It's not enough.

Edit: Typos

tsaescishoeshiner · June 9

I feel like Companion's damage done should be reduced by difficulty, but not as much their damage taken (or at least, not to the same extent). Otherwise they would just die.

While challenge difficulty is meant as a challenge, people can still approach that challenge with their buddy out, using their minor heal or tanking capabilities, or even specifically as a way to level their Companions.

I don't think it's a major issue, but it seems silly for them to not be impacted by Challenge Difficulty at all.

Necrotech_Master · June 10

if you dont want the companion to do so much dmg...then despawn the companion? lol

their effectiveness is the same regardless of what your challenge level is, you could sit there and let them go to town on stuff even on normal difficulty (adventurer) and they will still do fine

if they had to take the penalties, they would be about as useful as a floor mat (example being the night market where companions go to die lol)

Lekjih · June 10

Non issue. If they go in and try to tinker with it, they'll likely break something else AND ruin the challenge experience for tanks and healers. If you're a dps and unhappy with a companion outclassing you, put it away.

Vonnegut2506 · June 10

Change the companion to a healer or tank companion if the amount of damage they are doing bothers you.

brtomkin · June 10

Don't run damage skills on your companion if you don't want them to do damage. Don't run healing skills if you don't want them to heal you.

CatalinaWineMixer2 · June 10

brtomkin wrote: »

Don't run damage skills on your companion if you don't want them to do damage. Don't run healing skills if you don't want them to heal you.

Don't use a companion. Or let others run one.

DrMedBorn · June 10

the solution "don't use companions" is genius. How did I not think about this?

its NOT a solution. Its an rpg, I want to play with companions, but they should NOT be stronger than the player, ever.

spartaxoxo · June 10

The companions could not be more optional. Don't run them if you don't want to use them for their intended purpose of being able to handle overland content. They are already only useful in a very small amount of content.

I can't say I've noticed if they kill faster than me or not because I still kill fast enough that it don't matter.

BretonMage · June 10

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

if they had to take the penalties, they would be about as useful as a floor mat (example being the night market where companions go to die lol)

This. A thousand times this^^^ My companion tank is still dying to DLC WBs and dragons just on seasoned overland difficulty. I can't imagine how useless they'd be with the adjusted difficulty.

DrMedBorn wrote: »

the solution "don't use companions" is genius. How did I not think about this?

its NOT a solution. Its an rpg, I want to play with companions, but they should NOT be stronger than the player, ever.

Swap out all their DPS or healing skills with ONLY their self-healing skills. Change their gear to bolstered or vigorous. Give them white quality gear.

JimT722 · June 10

I really like having companions. I really don't want to just not use them. Even my healing companion is doing good damage, though.

it's not a problem but I can see why people would want their damage scaled as well. it is something I think zos should consider this but this is far from the biggest issue facing challenge difficulty.

Cardhwion · June 10

DrMedBorn wrote: »

the solution "don't use companions" is genius. How did I not think about this?

its NOT a solution. Its an rpg, I want to play with companions, but they should NOT be stronger than the player, ever.

Then remove all their skills, if they are only there for fluff. Don't ask for stuff to be nerved, just because you are unwilling to apply existing solutions.

ankeor · June 10

Title should be "Companions are finally useful"

SkaiFaith · June 10

The guy who sees his companion insta-die every time at Adventurer difficulty after reading this --> *insert Travolta Pulp Fiction meme.

Cominfordatoothbrush · June 10

Idk I think it's neat that they are actually relevant now. Sure they're not affected by difficulty, but died to base game world bosses and barely did any damage to begin with. They're not overpowered imo, it should still be easy to out parse them

joshisanonymous · June 10

For the people saying "don't use companions" or "the mode is no different than running around with no armor", you're all ignoring the fact that higher difficulties also give you bonuses to gold and experience. This isn't just about making your character weak purely for the sake of a challenge. Importantly, if the experience bonus applies to your companion's experience -- which I presume is does -- then you are very much incentivized to use a companion while playing on the harder difficulties.

JustLovely · June 10

Why are companions allowed in challenge difficulty?

spartaxoxo · June 10

joshisanonymous wrote: »

For the people saying "don't use companions" or "the mode is no different than running around with no armor", you're all ignoring the fact that higher difficulties also give you bonuses to gold and experience. This isn't just about making your character weak purely for the sake of a challenge. Importantly, if the experience bonus applies to your companion's experience -- which I presume is does -- then you are very much incentivized to use a companion while playing on the harder difficulties.

The companions experience points are not impacted by the gear they wear or class you build them as. Their power level is modular. By default they are weak in overland.

They are also intended to be able to help with more than just overland, such as in the infinite archive. They are already fairly weak and niche use case. They do not need nerfs.

emilyhyoyeon · June 10

JustLovely wrote: »

Why are companions allowed in challenge difficulty?

For those of us who like to roleplay, probably

spartaxoxo · June 10

JustLovely wrote: »

Why are companions allowed in challenge difficulty?

Because it's up to the player at what level of difficulty they want things to be. They give us a lot of options and it's up to us to do the things that would be enjoyable for us.

heimdall14_9 · June 10

mad that a self called upound npc is out dpsing you ??? PUT IT AWAY or improve your dps ...

Necrotech_Master · June 11

BretonMage wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

if they had to take the penalties, they would be about as useful as a floor mat (example being the night market where companions go to die lol)

This. A thousand times this^^^ My companion tank is still dying to DLC WBs and dragons just on seasoned overland difficulty. I can't imagine how useless they'd be with the adjusted difficulty.

DrMedBorn wrote: »

the solution "don't use companions" is genius. How did I not think about this?

its NOT a solution. Its an rpg, I want to play with companions, but they should NOT be stronger than the player, ever.

Swap out all their DPS or healing skills with ONLY their self-healing skills. Change their gear to bolstered or vigorous. Give them white quality gear.

even if you gave a companion 0 skills or only buff/heal skills, they still do a fair amount of dmg from just light attacking constantly (i think their light attack on its own is around 3500-4500 dmg without crits and constitutes a good bit of their dps), you would have to functionally give them no weapon either, i dont know how much unarmed dmg they do but that would be about the smallest dmg possible they could do besides being dead or despawned lol

SilverBride · June 11

I'm surprised that anyone wanting more difficulty would use a companion. That just defeats the purpose.

Gabriel_H · June 11

SilverBride wrote: »

I'm surprised that anyone wanting more difficulty would use a companion. That just defeats the purpose.

Because people have a mental block. If it's not a button they can press once and switch everything it doesn't register.

As I said above, challenge difficulty is a self-nerf. This could already be achieved before U50.

Lekjih · June 11

joshisanonymous wrote: »

For the people saying "don't use companions" or "the mode is no different than running around with no armor", you're all ignoring the fact that higher difficulties also give you bonuses to gold and experience. This isn't just about making your character weak purely for the sake of a challenge. Importantly, if the experience bonus applies to your companion's experience -- which I presume is does -- then you are very much incentivized to use a companion while playing on the harder difficulties.

I levelled werewolf yesterday on my youngest sorc. I thought seasoned difficulty having extra exp would be helpful. It is not. The extra exp is negated by mobs dying slower.

Eg
Adventurer I kill 45 mobs in a minute for 1700ish exp each 76500 exp a minute
Seasoned I kill 30 mobs a minute for 2000ish xp each 60000 exp a minute

If you're levelling and you want efficiency, difficulty mode is not useful

SilverBride · June 11

It is supposed to increase immersion and make the world feel more dangerous, which in turn makes it less efficient to level.

BretonMage · June 11

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

if they had to take the penalties, they would be about as useful as a floor mat (example being the night market where companions go to die lol)

This. A thousand times this^^^ My companion tank is still dying to DLC WBs and dragons just on seasoned overland difficulty. I can't imagine how useless they'd be with the adjusted difficulty.

DrMedBorn wrote: »

the solution "don't use companions" is genius. How did I not think about this?

its NOT a solution. Its an rpg, I want to play with companions, but they should NOT be stronger than the player, ever.

Swap out all their DPS or healing skills with ONLY their self-healing skills. Change their gear to bolstered or vigorous. Give them white quality gear.

even if you gave a companion 0 skills or only buff/heal skills, they still do a fair amount of dmg from just light attacking constantly (i think their light attack on its own is around 3500-4500 dmg without crits and constitutes a good bit of their dps), you would have to functionally give them no weapon either, i dont know how much unarmed dmg they do but that would be about the smallest dmg possible they could do besides being dead or despawned lol

Yeah unarmed damage would be the least damage, I'd imagine.

I did try replacing my tank Azandar's weapons with a white quality sword and he did 2822 damage on light attack, and with a white quality lightning staff, it was 3190. He has no damage boosting passives or skills, being geared primarily for survival.

There was another thread moreover where someone mentioned that the quickened trait reduced their DPS even more by making their skills fire more often, so that's something else to consider.

Attorneyatlawl · June 11

SilverBride wrote: »

It is supposed to increase immersion and make the world feel more dangerous, which in turn makes it less efficient to level.

No, it's supposed to make the game harder, not nerf your xp gains. They just need to amp up the xp bonus properly. They tried to do so but set it too low.

wolfie1.0. · June 11

DrMedBorn wrote: »

the solution "don't use companions" is genius. How did I not think about this?

its NOT a solution. Its an rpg, I want to play with companions, but they should NOT be stronger than the player, ever.

I want to have an army of companions and force them all to become werewolves and vampires so I can have a rampaging pack of doom....

Clearly there are limits to what we want and what we get.

I suggest adapting over complaints.