I'm pretty sure they want it to be a last resort. The ideal for ZOS is everyone does the tasks they're given each week, second choice is allowing you to reroll some of the worst ones.

Letting you reroll as many as you want, as many times as you need is likely intended to be worse than just putting up with the tasks you're given to discourage anyone doing it when they think there's an alternative.

The free ones stack from week to week, and you get 5 of those each week, and then the gold is used.

I dont think the question is whether the cost is excessive. I think it should be why you feel the need to reroll so often.

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

The free ones stack from week to week, and you get 5 of those each week, and then the gold is used.

I dont think the question is whether the cost is excessive. I think it should be why you feel the need to reroll so often.

You're joking, right? So many people have brought up the problem with rerolling where you get the same Challenge you're trying to avoid like three times in a row, especially if any of those Challenges wind up being repeats.

On my alt account I got Complete a Trial, Complete an Arena, two were Defeat the Serpent of Sanctum Ophidia. I have no one to do Trials with in general and heck if I'm gonna try to PUG one, that got rerolled. This alt doesn't have the means to do Arenas, so that had to get rerolled. Because I can't do Trials on this alt I had to reroll both the Sanctum ones. Four of my rerolls used already.

One of the tasks rerolled to use Blade of Woe. I don't have it on this alt because I haven't done questing, as the alt account is for RP purposes. There went my last free reroll. One of the others rerolled to Arena again. There's my 500g roll. One of the Sanctum ones rerolled to Scrying, which I can't do on this account because I don't have Greymoor on this alt. 1k reroll used.

This account only JUST hit level 50 today and so far has maybe 75 CP between all three Trees, which means no Master Gatherer yet, not even close, so the two Harvest Challenges I got from two of those rerolls also needed to get rerolled. Trying to gather 90 mats more than once is painful when you're doing it at base game gather speeds. Bam, 2.5k and 5k rerolls spent. One of those rerolls went back to Scrying, which as established I can't do, there's 10k.

One of the other rerolls went to another Harvest, which I rerolled for another 10k. Eventually I wound up with Kill 25 Fire/Storm Atros, Complete a Group Event in Wrothgar, Complete a Public Dungeon, kill Corintthac or Zandadunoz, and kill Zymel Etitan or Zymel Kruz. It took eleven rolls to get there.

It's VERY easy for people to go through all their free rerolls and still have Challenges they can't do for whatever reason. It's the whole reason rerolls for Gold was added. We've known since Tomes were released that you can get multiples of the same Challenge AND that more often than not rerolling seems to hit Challenges you've already rolled from. I don't see why anyone would would genuinely be asking "why do you think you need to reroll so many times" when these issues have been brought up numerous times already.

Until/unless ZOS implements some way to block certain Challenges so rerolls don't keep pulling them, people will continue to burn through both free and paid rerolls.

Danikat wrote: »

There's a lot of problems with the system currently and the fact that will keep giving you back the task you've already rejected is one of them. But ZOS seem to see it mainly as a way to 'encourage' players to do things they might not otherwise choose so I think any way to change them is seen as a major concession on their part.

But that runs counter to the way they talked about challenges. One of the selling points was that if you don't like a challenge, you can reroll it until you get one you like. All as part of "play as you want."

If ZOS truly wants us to be able to get a set of challenges we'll enjoy, then there should no limit on rerolls at all. Want every challenge to be the same because you have a busy week and can only game for an hour? Just keep rerolling until you get a complete set of the same challenge. Want all harvesting challenges for the week? Same. Want just trials and dungeons? Keep rerolling. Want to focus on PvP for the week? You can do that. But no, the way they've implemented rerolls, players are punished for trying to get challenges they'll enjoy or will fit their schedule.

It's another case of ZOS hyping something and making it sound like they truly want us to enjoy what we get, but then adding a mechanic that punishes players who are trying to do just that. As usual with ZOS, it's a case of see what they do, because you can't count on what they say.

So which is it? Do they really want us to get challenges we enjoy so we can actually have fun playing this game, or is it another case of "play as ZOS wants?" (that question isn't directed at you. )

So I experimented on my lowest cp account.

This account has limited ability to do many of the tasks, this week there were three tasks that were problematic.

I allowed myself 100k(plus the 5 free re-rolls) to see if I could end up with tasks I was happy to complete.

First off the repeating of tasks you've already re-rolled happens way, way too often.

I burned through that 100k and free re-rolls so fast it wasn't even amusing.

I also still had one task at the end that will now wait until next week to try and get a better one.

So basically if gold was important to me I now have about the same amount of Tome Points, after the 2k is carried over, to cover the cost on conversion, that I spent in a few seconds, trying to achieve better tasks.

Won't be doing that again.

If you play the entire season or a good portion of it, you shouldn't need paid rerolls and the free ones should be enough over the course of the season.

This seems like a nice trade off for people who arrive late and are running out of time and don't want to pay for the season to be permanent.

Gold is too valuable for me, and Tome Points too plentiful, so I won't use this system.

I see several issues.

One, I think the current cost structure is just fine for reasons clarified in the first few posts of this thread.

Two, I agree that the rerolls need to be smarter and not offer ones you have already tried to get rid of.

Three, as far as ZoS wanting players engage in content they don't enjoy, I translate that to unintentionally encouraging players to leave the game. I play ESO BECAUSE it is, overall, quite solo friendly. After more than seven decades of life and more than 15,000 hours playing ESO I'm pretty darn confident in my own ability to determine what I, as a PvE soloist do and do not enjoy. I simply don't engage in game activities I don't enjoy and no reward on Nirn will change that. I believe the game's mantra is 'Play how you want', NOT 'Play how the devs want.'

I play some alt accounts so I see it from the perspective of an advanced account, a mid-account and noobs. At least in terms of level and resources.

Resource nodes are trivial for my main. I have piles of surveys. But they are still boring and that account oddly gets trials every week instead.

The mid-level kept getting arenas. I let them pile up and did the others and had 8 turn ins last week when I finally had to do them.

The lowbies keep getting trials and resources. They have few to no surveys. Resources are easy but can take a long time to get 75 of the same thing.

Do I have to play all the accounts? of course not. Does it amplify how boring the same tasks every week for 100 days gets? certainly. But it does show that the tasks don't make sense for everyone.

When you have a limited number of options over the entire season, and what you get and what you reroll is fully random, some people will get the short straw.

Arunei wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

If you play the entire season or a good portion of it, you shouldn't need paid rerolls and the free ones should be enough over the course of the season.

This seems like a nice trade off for people who arrive late and are running out of time and don't want to pay for the season to be permanent.

Gold is too valuable for me, and Tome Points too plentiful, so I won't use this system.

Except it doesn't matter HOW long you've been playing any given Season because of the scenario I outlined a few posts up. On my alt account I literally needed to roll 11 times to get Challenges that account can realistically do. It doesn't matter if you're doing Challenges every single week for the whole Season if literally every week you have to reroll because you get "Excavate X Antiquity" three times when you don't own Greymoor, or reroll Complete an Arena twice when you have no characters that can do them, and so on and so forth. People routinely have to spend all their free rerolls every week and sometimes STILL end up with Challenges they can't do.

It is, again, the reason they added being able to reroll more times for Gold. How long you've been playing has absolutely no bearing on your RNG each week. Last week on my alt I burned through all my free rolls and was still stuck with like three Challenges I couldn't complete because I kept getting the same ones I couldn't realistically do over and over.

ZOS needs to add WAY more Challenges than we currently had and also some way of preventing rerolled Challenges from coming back up for the week.

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Is there a reason so many Endeavors didn't get translated over to Challenges? There was so much more variety with them than Challenges provide and it REALLY is a glaringly obvious issue when Challenges we're trying to replace keep popping up again and again.

In this situation you let those 3 sit until the following week and try again.

I never clear out my challenges every week and always let some roll over, either because I can't or won't do them. Again if you play most of the season it shouldn't be hard to finish the pass, even with a week here and there of bad RNG. In my experience this system LOVES gathering, so it's only a matter of time for something everyone can do.

I also think that if your account is so new you can't do most of the challenges, that's fine too. None of this stuff is required. Helpful sure but not needed. It will give such players goals to build towards if they care about the passes, and some don't even care about the pass at all.

AScarlato wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

If you play the entire season or a good portion of it, you shouldn't need paid rerolls and the free ones should be enough over the course of the season.

This seems like a nice trade off for people who arrive late and are running out of time and don't want to pay for the season to be permanent.

Gold is too valuable for me, and Tome Points too plentiful, so I won't use this system.

Except it doesn't matter HOW long you've been playing any given Season because of the scenario I outlined a few posts up. On my alt account I literally needed to roll 11 times to get Challenges that account can realistically do. It doesn't matter if you're doing Challenges every single week for the whole Season if literally every week you have to reroll because you get "Excavate X Antiquity" three times when you don't own Greymoor, or reroll Complete an Arena twice when you have no characters that can do them, and so on and so forth. People routinely have to spend all their free rerolls every week and sometimes STILL end up with Challenges they can't do.

It is, again, the reason they added being able to reroll more times for Gold. How long you've been playing has absolutely no bearing on your RNG each week. Last week on my alt I burned through all my free rolls and was still stuck with like three Challenges I couldn't complete because I kept getting the same ones I couldn't realistically do over and over.

ZOS needs to add WAY more Challenges than we currently had and also some way of preventing rerolled Challenges from coming back up for the week.

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Is there a reason so many Endeavors didn't get translated over to Challenges? There was so much more variety with them than Challenges provide and it REALLY is a glaringly obvious issue when Challenges we're trying to replace keep popping up again and again.

In this situation you let those 3 sit until the following week and try again.

I never clear out my challenges every week and always let some roll over, either because I can't or won't do them. Again if you play most of the season it shouldn't be hard to finish the pass, even with a week here and there of bad RNG. In my experience this system LOVES gathering, so it's only a matter of time for something everyone can do.

I also think that if your account is so new you can't do most of the challenges, that's fine too. None of this stuff is required. Helpful sure but not needed. It will give such players goals to build towards if they care about the passes, and some don't even care about the pass at all.

So let's say the hypothetical three Challenges a person couldn't do roll over to the next week. Now the problem is actually made worse because instead of just five Challenges you may need to reroll several times, it's eight. How does having more Challenges to potentially need to blow MORE rerolls on make the problem better?

Also the argument of "well no one needs it" is dismissive. We all know we don't need any of the stuff to play the game. No one is saying we do. But that's not the point. The point is people on the Free track are going to be understandably frustrated when they WANT to engage in the system but literally CAN'T because of tasks they can't complete. Newer players being locked out of earning things just because there's such a limited pool of things to pull from every week sucks and feels bad.

Will there be people who don't have problems? Yes, you're one of them. But you have to realize there will be and have been people who have repeatedly had issues for numerous weeks where they ran out of rolls and sometimes still got stuck with things they couldn't do, because I am one of them.

And really, what does it detract from people not having issues for people who do any given week to have more rerolls? If you don't need to use them then you don't need to use them.

Arunei wrote: »

So let's say the hypothetical three Challenges a person couldn't do roll over to the next week. Now the problem is actually made worse because instead of just five Challenges you may need to reroll several times, it's eight. How does having more Challenges to potentially need to blow MORE rerolls on make the problem better?

Flip-side: You get 5 challenges you are happy with and don't need to re-roll anything, and carry those 5 rolls over to the next week.

Edit: Formatting

FurryCandyHearts wrote: »

500 - 1k - 2.5k - 5k - 10k

really? either 500 or 1000 each would be reasonable. this is crazy how you're doing it now.

it wouldnt be so bad if there was a bigger pool of challenges

Always with the handouts, the current playerbase always wants something for nothing.

There should be a cost attached to the convenience/laziness of players, and it should increase as you're paying for convenience. If you don't want to do that particular task, don't do it.
If you're so set against a particular task, eat the cost to get one that you want, otherwise wait for your weekly re-rolls.

Gold is in abundance, has been for years now. Even as a new player, the simplest things reward gold.

Munkfist wrote: »

Always with the handouts, the current playerbase always wants something for nothing.

There should be a cost attached to the convenience/laziness of players, and it should increase as you're paying for convenience. If you don't want to do that particular task, don't do it.
If you're so set against a particular task, eat the cost to get one that you want, otherwise wait for your weekly re-rolls.

Why are people lazy because they want to do stuff they enjoy? That's probably one of the more ridiculous statements I've read on this forum.

When ZOS announced tomes, they said, "Hey, and if you don't like a challenge, you can reroll it, so you can get one you like!" They didn't mention that you're just as likely to get the same ones coming up over and over again, or that if you're having problems getting one you like, well tough. You'll have to pay a penalty, or let challenges roll over and have even more challenges you don't enjoy the next week. What fun!

God forbid this be a game where people can do stuff they enjoy without having to pay a penalty or being put down by other players. Are there really that many players out there who force themselves to do stuff that makes them miserable? Why would anyone do that? It's not a job. You're not being paid. We're paying them. So maybe they can deliver what they announced, rather than being stingy and punitive - again.