Missed Opportunity

cptscotty · 12:09AM

A serious missed opportunity to give the players what they asked for. Players asked for a hard mode difficulty in overland content. For years. You spent all this effort developing and marketing this new feature. But then allowed for it to be completely ruined and overwritten by others who want the game on easy mode. Making it completely useless for the players who asked for it in the first place.

Should have made it instanced and separate like how other games have it done. Let the easy players in their own area and the hard mode players in theirs. Now its just a frustrating experience and a huge disappointment.

tsaescishoeshiner · 12:17AM

Instanced would have been a terrible idea that split players up after they already got rid of that years ago.

I wish they found a better way to maker overland combat feel a bit more meaningful like other MMOs (without being obstructively hard), but they used to have "veteran" versions of overland that were instanced and it was a huge improvement for the community to remove that.

Now we get to be togethef with still some difficulty options—not amazing, but a compromise.

cptscotty · 12:21AM

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Instanced would have been a terrible idea that split players up after they already got rid of that years ago.

I wish they found a better way to maker overland combat feel a bit more meaningful like other MMOs (without being obstructively hard), but they used to have "veteran" versions of overland that were instanced and it was a huge improvement for the community to remove that.

Now we get to be togethef with still some difficulty options—not amazing, but a compromise.

Problem is this is a complete waste of time and development since its easily overwritten by people who want the game in easy mode. They should not have allowed someone who wants the game on easy mode to force all others be on their easy mode. Thus the need for instanced areas. So no one would be forced by other players decisions.

Gabriel_H · 12:22AM

cptscotty wrote: »

Should have made it instanced and separate like how other games have it done. Let the easy players in their own area and the hard mode players in theirs. Now its just a frustrating experience and a huge disappointment.

Not a missed opportunity, a deliberate design choice. These concerns were raised when Challenge was announced, and again when it hit PTS, and discussed at length. ZOS' position remains unchanged:

My personal opinion: It makes the achievements worthless. At least there is only 1 Vestige achievement, and the rest are Seasoned+ and can be solo'd. Vestige WBs & WEs are another matter for soloing. The incoming damage is just too much for even a small group. Even the worst trial HM boss does less damage.

cptscotty · 12:25AM

Gabriel_H wrote: »

cptscotty wrote: »

Should have made it instanced and separate like how other games have it done. Let the easy players in their own area and the hard mode players in theirs. Now its just a frustrating experience and a huge disappointment.

Not a missed opportunity, a deliberate design choice. These concerns were raised when Challenge was announced, and again when it hit PTS, and discussed at length. ZOS' position remains unchanged:

A "Missed opportunity" can also be a "deliberate design choice".

The problem is the statement "You can still play with friends, all while having the bump in challenge". There is no challenge when someone can still run in and one shot a mob you are working on. On normal easy difficulty you spend more time buffing your character than you do killing the enemy with one ability.

Gabriel_H · 12:30AM

cptscotty wrote: »

The problem is the statement "You can still play with friends, all while having the bump in challenge". There is no challenge when someone can still run in and one shot a mob you are working on. On normal easy difficulty you spend more time buffing your character than you do killing the enemy with one ability.

Again, this was discussed at length months ago. ZOS are not budging on their philosophy. And while I think the implementation could have been more segregated, the notion that there is no challenge is just wrong. Go try doing a WB or WE (Dragon's in particular) on Vestige difficulty like you would normally without a tank or healer. Even with a group of normal difficulty there you'll still find it a challenge to stay alive.

cptscotty · 12:39AM

Gabriel_H wrote: »

cptscotty wrote: »

The problem is the statement "You can still play with friends, all while having the bump in challenge". There is no challenge when someone can still run in and one shot a mob you are working on. On normal easy difficulty you spend more time buffing your character than you do killing the enemy with one ability.

Again, this was discussed at length months ago. ZOS are not budging on their philosophy. And while I think the implementation could have been more segregated, the notion that there is no challenge is just wrong. Go try doing a WB or WE (Dragon's in particular) on Vestige difficulty like you would normally without a tank or healer. Even with a group of normal difficulty there you'll still find it a challenge to stay alive.

I have tested that. The experience is completely ruined by a person who can easily solo the boss. It becomes absolutely trivial if the boss is not focused on you and instead focused on the easy-mode-player and thus ruins the experience that people begged and asked repeatedly for that sparked this whole development in the first place.

Thus..again...a missed opportunity. Could have used the development time and energy to create a new area, arena, trial, or battleground, if not willing to fully implement this request. My hope is this is expanded on more because as it is right now...its a huge let-down and disappointment.

Nothing like spending a long time working on perfecting the timing of a fight and finally getting it almost down just to have someone come in and trivialize all that work....like playing dark souls with cheat codes, whats the point?

Gabriel_H · 12:48AM

cptscotty wrote: »

I have tested that. The experience is completely ruined by a person who can easily solo the boss. It becomes absolutely trivial if the boss is not focused on you and instead focused on the easy-mode-player and thus ruins the experience that people begged and asked repeatedly for that sparked this whole development in the first place.

That's a simple fix, they just need to adjust the underlying aggro mechanics so that difficulty increases aggro on the boss, then it will focus you, and unless there are a bunch of healers around (which are rare in overland) it'll one shot you even as a tank in some cases.

If you want that level of difficulty you can have it without the Challenge system (which is a choice), by not wearing armour and using white weapons (also a choice).

Arunei · 12:49AM

It wasn't just a design choice. They've explained there's technical reasons they couldn't make a separate instance for EVERY PERSON who decided to use any Challenge setting beyond Adventurer. I'd have to find it but essentially it boils down to too much of a drain on the game resources iirc to make THAT many instances.

Besides that, this problem has already existed since the beginning, just in the opposite direction. People who might have been trying to solo a WB or Group Event could be having fun with the challenge, up until a min-max player with BiS gear doing 150k DPS comes in and burns the thing down in 0.2 seconds.

The thing is, Challenge Difficulty wasn't introduced to make things like WBs or Dolmens or other things aimed more at groups of people beating them harder for the solo players who wanted things harder. It was introduced so people doing questing in Overland would feel more challenged and engaged, and to make things like the BBEG of various story quests an actual "threat" so to speak.

Of course people doing group-oriented things like WBs are still going to be fairly easy when several people are doing them, but making those specifically harder wasn't the point. It was because a majority of people felt Overland in general was too easy, NOT WBs and the like.

ETA: Here's the post where it was explained why they didn't do instances for Challenge Difficulty: U50 Feedback Thread for Challenge Difficulty

cptscotty · 12:57AM

Arunei wrote: »

It wasn't just a design choice. They've explained there's technical reasons they couldn't make a separate instance for EVERY PERSON who decided to use any Challenge setting beyond Adventurer. I'd have to find it but essentially it boils down to too much of a drain on the game resources iirc to make THAT many instances.

Besides that, this problem has already existed since the beginning, just in the opposite direction. People who might have been trying to solo a WB or Group Event could be having fun with the challenge, up until a min-max player with BiS gear doing 150k DPS comes in and burns the thing down in 0.2 seconds.

The thing is, Challenge Difficulty wasn't introduced to make things like WBs or Dolmens or other things aimed more at groups of people beating them harder for the solo players who wanted things harder. It was introduced so people doing questing in Overland would feel more challenged and engaged, and to make things like the BBEG of various story quests an actual "threat" so to speak.

Of course people doing group-oriented things like WBs are still going to be fairly easy when several people are doing them, but making those specifically harder wasn't the point. It was because a majority of people felt Overland in general was too easy, NOT WBs and the like.

They already have instanced combat. Example...Nightmarket. Currently its instanced and you have to join someone elses instance. Take that tech, and apply it to 4 instances of overland....one for each difficulty. Problem solved.

Arunei · 1:00AM

cptscotty wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

It wasn't just a design choice. They've explained there's technical reasons they couldn't make a separate instance for EVERY PERSON who decided to use any Challenge setting beyond Adventurer. I'd have to find it but essentially it boils down to too much of a drain on the game resources iirc to make THAT many instances.

Besides that, this problem has already existed since the beginning, just in the opposite direction. People who might have been trying to solo a WB or Group Event could be having fun with the challenge, up until a min-max player with BiS gear doing 150k DPS comes in and burns the thing down in 0.2 seconds.

The thing is, Challenge Difficulty wasn't introduced to make things like WBs or Dolmens or other things aimed more at groups of people beating them harder for the solo players who wanted things harder. It was introduced so people doing questing in Overland would feel more challenged and engaged, and to make things like the BBEG of various story quests an actual "threat" so to speak.

Of course people doing group-oriented things like WBs are still going to be fairly easy when several people are doing them, but making those specifically harder wasn't the point. It was because a majority of people felt Overland in general was too easy, NOT WBs and the like.

They already have instanced combat. Example...Nightmarket. Currently its instanced and you have to join someone elses instance. Take that tech, and apply it to 4 instances of overland....one for each difficulty. Problem solved.

That's not at all how instancing in this game works. You don't join someone else's instance for NM, you join an instance that can hold up to 36 players and when that one is full it makes a new one. Instances don't belong to any specific player other than certain quests or things like Trials/Dungeons.

I updated my post with the link to the post that explains why they didn't/can't do it for Challenge Difficulty either way.

cptscotty · 1:02AM

Arunei wrote: »

cptscotty wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

It wasn't just a design choice. They've explained there's technical reasons they couldn't make a separate instance for EVERY PERSON who decided to use any Challenge setting beyond Adventurer. I'd have to find it but essentially it boils down to too much of a drain on the game resources iirc to make THAT many instances.

Besides that, this problem has already existed since the beginning, just in the opposite direction. People who might have been trying to solo a WB or Group Event could be having fun with the challenge, up until a min-max player with BiS gear doing 150k DPS comes in and burns the thing down in 0.2 seconds.

The thing is, Challenge Difficulty wasn't introduced to make things like WBs or Dolmens or other things aimed more at groups of people beating them harder for the solo players who wanted things harder. It was introduced so people doing questing in Overland would feel more challenged and engaged, and to make things like the BBEG of various story quests an actual "threat" so to speak.

Of course people doing group-oriented things like WBs are still going to be fairly easy when several people are doing them, but making those specifically harder wasn't the point. It was because a majority of people felt Overland in general was too easy, NOT WBs and the like.

They already have instanced combat. Example...Nightmarket. Currently its instanced and you have to join someone elses instance. Take that tech, and apply it to 4 instances of overland....one for each difficulty. Problem solved.

That's not at all how instancing in this game works. You don't join someone else's instance for NM, you join an instance that can hold up to 36 players and when that one is full it makes a new one. I updated my post with the link to the post that explains why they didn't/can't do it for Challenge Difficulty either way.

Exactly....An instance for all 4 difficulties. Thats what I am talking about. The tech is right there. There is no need for an instance for each person. Just the difficulty. So its still an MMO where people are instanced to their difficulty choice. Just like in games like Diablo who choose their difficulty level for overland content.

SilverBride · 1:13AM

cptscotty wrote: »

A serious missed opportunity to give the players what they asked for. Players asked for a hard mode difficulty in overland content. For years. You spent all this effort developing and marketing this new feature. But then allowed for it to be completely ruined and overwritten by others who want the game on easy mode. Making it completely useless for the players who asked for it in the first place.

Those who want the game on Adventurer difficulty, like it's been for the past 10 years, aren't ruining anything for anyone. We don't have to give up what we enjoy so someone else can have what they want.

cptscotty · 1:17AM

SilverBride wrote: »

cptscotty wrote: »

A serious missed opportunity to give the players what they asked for. Players asked for a hard mode difficulty in overland content. For years. You spent all this effort developing and marketing this new feature. But then allowed for it to be completely ruined and overwritten by others who want the game on easy mode. Making it completely useless for the players who asked for it in the first place.

Should have made it instanced and separate like how other games have it done. Let the easy players in their own area and the hard mode players in theirs. Now its just a frustrating experience and a huge disappointment.

Those who want the game on Adventurer difficulty, like it's been for the past 10 years, aren't ruining anything for anyone.

yeah they are. they can completely nullify the challenge mode difficulties for other players. Thus the need to separate them. Easy-mode-players should not be allowed to force others into their easy mode.

SilverBride · 1:24AM

cptscotty wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Those who want the game on Adventurer difficulty, like it's been for the past 10 years, aren't ruining anything for anyone.

yeah they are. they can completely nullify the challenge mode difficulties for other players. Thus the need to separate them. Easy-mode-players should not be allowed to force others into their easy mode.

No, we aren't. No one is playing Adventurer to nullify anything for anyone. We are just playing the game the way we have always enjoyed it and it has nothing to do with anyone else.

We are not responsible for someone else's experience and we are not to blame if others are unhappy with how this system is working.

ESO_player123 · 1:25AM

cptscotty wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

cptscotty wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

It wasn't just a design choice. They've explained there's technical reasons they couldn't make a separate instance for EVERY PERSON who decided to use any Challenge setting beyond Adventurer. I'd have to find it but essentially it boils down to too much of a drain on the game resources iirc to make THAT many instances.

Besides that, this problem has already existed since the beginning, just in the opposite direction. People who might have been trying to solo a WB or Group Event could be having fun with the challenge, up until a min-max player with BiS gear doing 150k DPS comes in and burns the thing down in 0.2 seconds.

The thing is, Challenge Difficulty wasn't introduced to make things like WBs or Dolmens or other things aimed more at groups of people beating them harder for the solo players who wanted things harder. It was introduced so people doing questing in Overland would feel more challenged and engaged, and to make things like the BBEG of various story quests an actual "threat" so to speak.

Of course people doing group-oriented things like WBs are still going to be fairly easy when several people are doing them, but making those specifically harder wasn't the point. It was because a majority of people felt Overland in general was too easy, NOT WBs and the like.

They already have instanced combat. Example...Nightmarket. Currently its instanced and you have to join someone elses instance. Take that tech, and apply it to 4 instances of overland....one for each difficulty. Problem solved.

That's not at all how instancing in this game works. You don't join someone else's instance for NM, you join an instance that can hold up to 36 players and when that one is full it makes a new one. I updated my post with the link to the post that explains why they didn't/can't do it for Challenge Difficulty either way.

Exactly....An instance for all 4 difficulties. Thats what I am talking about. The tech is right there. There is no need for an instance for each person. Just the difficulty. So its still an MMO where people are instanced to their difficulty choice. Just like in games like Diablo who choose their difficulty level for overland content.

Regardless of the tech being there or not, they gave 2 reasons why they were not going to do it in the thread linked below (first post):
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/691351/update-50-pts-week-1-summary/p1

I agree with you that instancing by difficulty would have been a better choice. But it is what we have.

cptscotty · 1:39AM

SilverBride wrote: »

cptscotty wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Those who want the game on Adventurer difficulty, like it's been for the past 10 years, aren't ruining anything for anyone.

yeah they are. they can completely nullify the challenge mode difficulties for other players. Thus the need to separate them. Easy-mode-players should not be allowed to force others into their easy mode.

No, we aren't. No one is playing Adventurer to nullify anything for anyone. We are just playing the game the way we have always enjoyed it and it has nothing to do with anyone else.

We are not responsible for someone else's experience and we are not to blame if others are unhappy with how this system is working.

Doesnt matter or mean that easy-mode-players are not ruining the new experience if they are not meaning to or playing how they always have played before. Its how its currently setup. So yes, you are playing the game the way you always used to for the older style...but it ruins the newer style implemented today. The fact the easy-mode-players can ruin the new hard mode for players is a mistake and they should not be allowed that much power over how others experience the game. Whether they mean to or not.

SilverBride · 1:55AM

cptscotty wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

cptscotty wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Those who want the game on Adventurer difficulty, like it's been for the past 10 years, aren't ruining anything for anyone.

yeah they are. they can completely nullify the challenge mode difficulties for other players. Thus the need to separate them. Easy-mode-players should not be allowed to force others into their easy mode.

No, we aren't. No one is playing Adventurer to nullify anything for anyone. We are just playing the game the way we have always enjoyed it and it has nothing to do with anyone else.

We are not responsible for someone else's experience and we are not to blame if others are unhappy with how this system is working.

Doesnt matter or mean that easy-mode-players are not ruining the new experience if they are not meaning to or playing how they always have played before. Its how its currently setup. So yes, you are playing the game the way you always used to for the older style...but it ruins the newer style implemented today. The fact the easy-mode-players can ruin the new hard mode for players is a mistake and they should not be allowed that much power over how others experience the game. Whether they mean to or not.

So what is this power we supposedly have over how others experience the game? We aren't doing anything different than we always have. We are not ruining anything for anyone. It is not our fault that the new system isn't to some player's liking but it is not because of us!

cptscotty · 2:02AM

SilverBride wrote: »

cptscotty wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

cptscotty wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Those who want the game on Adventurer difficulty, like it's been for the past 10 years, aren't ruining anything for anyone.

yeah they are. they can completely nullify the challenge mode difficulties for other players. Thus the need to separate them. Easy-mode-players should not be allowed to force others into their easy mode.

No, we aren't. No one is playing Adventurer to nullify anything for anyone. We are just playing the game the way we have always enjoyed it and it has nothing to do with anyone else.

We are not responsible for someone else's experience and we are not to blame if others are unhappy with how this system is working.

Doesnt matter or mean that easy-mode-players are not ruining the new experience if they are not meaning to or playing how they always have played before. Its how its currently setup. So yes, you are playing the game the way you always used to for the older style...but it ruins the newer style implemented today. The fact the easy-mode-players can ruin the new hard mode for players is a mistake and they should not be allowed that much power over how others experience the game. Whether they mean to or not.

So what is this power we supposedly have over how others experience the game? We aren't doing anything different than we always have. We are not ruining anything for anyone. It is not our fault that the new system isn't to some player's liking but it is not because of us!

Again. Doesnt matter if you are doing what you always have and dont mean to control others experience. The fact you can join in on someone doing hard mode while you are on easy mode causes a problem for the hard mode player. They dont get to experience hard mode anymore since you come in and overpower the content. Its like playing with people who are hacking and cheating. Ruins the experience. Whether you mean to or not, whether you are changing anything or not, its what you are doing and the fact you can do it in the first place is a problem and needs to be changed. otherwise the whole point of hard mode is ruined just like people playing with hacks ruins the experience for others.

AzuraFan · 2:02AM

cptscotty wrote: »

The experience is completely ruined by a person who can easily solo the boss...
Nothing like spending a long time working on perfecting the timing of a fight and finally getting it almost down just to have someone come in and trivialize all that work....like playing dark souls with cheat codes, whats the point?

Your experience now matches the experience of every "easy-mode player" who has been soloing a boss or whatever, and then some player with a meta build who usually solos vet content comes along and burns it down in 5 seconds. So while I think instancing would have been better, I don't really have a lot of sympathy. Welcome to what we "easy-mode players" have been dealing with for years. You're now on the flip side of that.

As for not letting other players have power over how you experience the game, I'm afraid that's near impossible in an MMO. Hence the questers vs. speedrunner threads for dungeons, the PvE vs. PvP threads for questing in PvP areas, the threads about flashy animations and how some players want options to turn them off. The list goes on. In this case, instancing might have been the better way to go, but ZOS doesn't want that.

In any event, your whining should be directed at ZOS, not at us easy-mode players who didn't design this feature.

Arunei · 2:12AM

cptscotty wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

cptscotty wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

cptscotty wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Those who want the game on Adventurer difficulty, like it's been for the past 10 years, aren't ruining anything for anyone.

yeah they are. they can completely nullify the challenge mode difficulties for other players. Thus the need to separate them. Easy-mode-players should not be allowed to force others into their easy mode.

No, we aren't. No one is playing Adventurer to nullify anything for anyone. We are just playing the game the way we have always enjoyed it and it has nothing to do with anyone else.

We are not responsible for someone else's experience and we are not to blame if others are unhappy with how this system is working.

Doesnt matter or mean that easy-mode-players are not ruining the new experience if they are not meaning to or playing how they always have played before. Its how its currently setup. So yes, you are playing the game the way you always used to for the older style...but it ruins the newer style implemented today. The fact the easy-mode-players can ruin the new hard mode for players is a mistake and they should not be allowed that much power over how others experience the game. Whether they mean to or not.

So what is this power we supposedly have over how others experience the game? We aren't doing anything different than we always have. We are not ruining anything for anyone. It is not our fault that the new system isn't to some player's liking but it is not because of us!

Again. Doesnt matter if you are doing what you always have and dont mean to control others experience. The fact you can join in on someone doing hard mode while you are on easy mode causes a problem for the hard mode player. They dont get to experience hard mode anymore since you come in and overpower the content. Its like playing with people who are hacking and cheating. Ruins the experience. Whether you mean to or not, whether you are changing anything or not, its what you are doing and the fact you can do it in the first place is a problem and needs to be changed. otherwise the whole point of hard mode is ruined just like people playing with hacks ruins the experience for others.

My guy, no.

I already pointed out how this problem has existed since the game launched, with higher-strength people ""ruining" the game for weaker or lower level players by coming in and absolutely WRECKING bosses or whatever in seconds. You conveniently didn't comment on that. But it's only an issue now that you have to deal with the same problem?

Also you really do need to stop blaming players for just playing the game. None of us had a hand in how ZOS decided to implement this. It isn't ANY player's fault for simply playing the game at the level that's comfortable for them, or for many at the only level they CAN play at. Like genuinely, stop telling others they're doing things wrong and ruining your experience for playing the game the way they want to.

Also it was explained that the tech you THINK seems to exist in the game isn't the tech it actually operates on. Did you even bother to read the post I linked to or did you ignore it entirely for your narrative? There's more that goes on behind instancing than you think or want to believe. It would have been a huge detriment to the game overall if they tried to swing up separate instances for each Difficulty level. Like do you realize how many resources it would take to have 4 separate instances of EVERY Overland area going all at the same time? Like I said, they literally go over that stuff in the post I linked.

You might not like how things are but that doesn't mean you get to blame other players for it when it's no one's fault this is how it was implemented. You're basically implying that people either need to play at the level YOU want to play for YOUR enjoyment, and who cares what everyone else enjoys, or stop playing entirely because otherwise they're a problem.

So again, no. Stop telling others they're the problem or they're to blame or they're ruining your experience for simply playing the game. It's absolutely bonkers you're trying to equate this to people hacking or cheating.

SilverBride · 2:16AM

cptscotty wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

So what is this power we supposedly have over how others experience the game? We aren't doing anything different than we always have. We are not ruining anything for anyone. It is not our fault that the new system isn't to some player's liking but it is not because of us!

Again. Doesnt matter if you are doing what you always have and dont mean to control others experience. The fact you can join in on someone doing hard mode while you are on easy mode causes a problem for the hard mode player. They dont get to experience hard mode anymore since you come in and overpower the content. Its like playing with people who are hacking and cheating. Ruins the experience. Whether you mean to or not, whether you are changing anything or not, its what you are doing and the fact you can do it in the first place is a problem and needs to be changed. otherwise the whole point of hard mode is ruined just like people playing with hacks ruins the experience for others.

Comparing us to "playing with people who are hacking and cheating" are very harsh words for players that had no hand in how this system was implemented and are not responsible for any of it. Any complaints about the system should be brought to ZOS's attention, not directed at innocent players.

dubq77 · 2:34AM

Instancing based on overland difficulty would be a terrible idea. Splitting the population four ways when it's already sometimes very difficult to find others in various zones? No thanks.

Tallon_IV · 3:44AM

cptscotty wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

cptscotty wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

cptscotty wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Those who want the game on Adventurer difficulty, like it's been for the past 10 years, aren't ruining anything for anyone.

yeah they are. they can completely nullify the challenge mode difficulties for other players. Thus the need to separate them. Easy-mode-players should not be allowed to force others into their easy mode.

No, we aren't. No one is playing Adventurer to nullify anything for anyone. We are just playing the game the way we have always enjoyed it and it has nothing to do with anyone else.

We are not responsible for someone else's experience and we are not to blame if others are unhappy with how this system is working.

Doesnt matter or mean that easy-mode-players are not ruining the new experience if they are not meaning to or playing how they always have played before. Its how its currently setup. So yes, you are playing the game the way you always used to for the older style...but it ruins the newer style implemented today. The fact the easy-mode-players can ruin the new hard mode for players is a mistake and they should not be allowed that much power over how others experience the game. Whether they mean to or not.

So what is this power we supposedly have over how others experience the game? We aren't doing anything different than we always have. We are not ruining anything for anyone. It is not our fault that the new system isn't to some player's liking but it is not because of us!

Again. Doesnt matter if you are doing what you always have and dont mean to control others experience. The fact you can join in on someone doing hard mode while you are on easy mode causes a problem for the hard mode player. They dont get to experience hard mode anymore since you come in and overpower the content. Its like playing with people who are hacking and cheating. Ruins the experience. Whether you mean to or not, whether you are changing anything or not, its what you are doing and the fact you can do it in the first place is a problem and needs to be changed. otherwise the whole point of hard mode is ruined just like people playing with hacks ruins the experience for others.

Stop assuming malice where there isn't any.

FlameDark · 4:10AM

This and and so many threads lead right back to poor game development decisions. Why make it a PvEPvP zone and frustrate both types of players just wanting to do their preferred content. Why even add quests to group dungeons, or make the dialogue so long or unskipable and frustrating players both doing quests and players that just want to get the dungeon over with. Why force hard mode players to have to deal with easy mode players at the same time...

We need to stop blaming each other for bad decisions, and point the blame purely onto developers for causing these situations to happen. Players going easy mode are not ruining your hard mode experience. The developers of this system are. The only ones who are going to be hit the hardest is anyone on easy mode, playing the game they also paid for, killing the world boss for a daily they barely have time in their day to complete, and getting hate rolled by a hard mode player who would rather blame the guy who didn't develop the system to begin with.

As for adding more instances and not enough server capacity to do it. Why not just get rid of the pts to make room for more instances? It's not like they're using it with all the bugs and ignored suggestions. <---- yes I'm being sarcastic

Taarente · 6:20AM

Lets change Vestige to Vanity. The vestige player in an overland fight is as much use as a chocolate teapot sat in the desert.

Aliniel · 7:57AM

dubq77 wrote: »

Instancing based on overland difficulty would be a terrible idea. Splitting the population four ways when it's already sometimes very difficult to find others in various zones? No thanks.

Considering 99% of players don't even bother responding to a simple "Hi" while you're waiting for a boss to spawn, would this be such a terrible idea? ESO is already a Single Player game with online chat for the most part. The group content is always packed into instances so you only group when you intend to group.

WaywardArgonian · 8:25AM

Making this instanced would've been a fantastic choice if the objective was to kill the game.

Usureki · 8:26AM

Though I understand that it is not implemented as per the expectations of many, we still need to value and respect that it opened new opportunities and ways to play for many, so Challenge Difficulty IS a step towards the right direction. I like it, now it makes sense to play overland content with friends, which is awesome! I hope they will fine-tune it to better serve challenging gameplay in the future, but now, I'm excited to once again dive in the hundreds hours of content ESO has to offer, but this time, the evil threat is actually kind of threatening >:3

I find the "use naked/white weapon lol" recommendation very lame, but also pointing at players because they play the game as they enjoy is toxic. We're here together to enjoy a game we love, we're comrades, I recommend y'all to act like it, don't clickbait others, peace

Gabriel_H · 8:39AM

cptscotty wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

cptscotty wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

cptscotty wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Those who want the game on Adventurer difficulty, like it's been for the past 10 years, aren't ruining anything for anyone.

yeah they are. they can completely nullify the challenge mode difficulties for other players. Thus the need to separate them. Easy-mode-players should not be allowed to force others into their easy mode.

No, we aren't. No one is playing Adventurer to nullify anything for anyone. We are just playing the game the way we have always enjoyed it and it has nothing to do with anyone else.

We are not responsible for someone else's experience and we are not to blame if others are unhappy with how this system is working.

Doesnt matter or mean that easy-mode-players are not ruining the new experience if they are not meaning to or playing how they always have played before. Its how its currently setup. So yes, you are playing the game the way you always used to for the older style...but it ruins the newer style implemented today. The fact the easy-mode-players can ruin the new hard mode for players is a mistake and they should not be allowed that much power over how others experience the game. Whether they mean to or not.

So what is this power we supposedly have over how others experience the game? We aren't doing anything different than we always have. We are not ruining anything for anyone. It is not our fault that the new system isn't to some player's liking but it is not because of us!

Again. Doesnt matter if you are doing what you always have and dont mean to control others experience. The fact you can join in on someone doing hard mode while you are on easy mode causes a problem for the hard mode player. They dont get to experience hard mode anymore since you come in and overpower the content. Its like playing with people who are hacking and cheating. Ruins the experience. Whether you mean to or not, whether you are changing anything or not, its what you are doing and the fact you can do it in the first place is a problem and needs to be changed. otherwise the whole point of hard mode is ruined just like people playing with hacks ruins the experience for others.

So, prior to U50, when you rocked up to a WB and there were other players there, did you ask them what level they were, or if they minded your much more powerful character joining in the fight?

As I said, I don't agree with the way it has been implemented, but on a fundamental level different difficulties is no different to different levels, CPs and gear access. i.e. The only thing that has changed is the roles have been reversed.

Sylosi · 10:00AM

A recurring theme with Zenimax is terrible implementation of what could be good features, overland difficulty is another case in point.

Take when I go into a public dungeon as an example, it is rarely just me there. So what is the point of me going on harder difficulty so that I actually have to use things like CC, dodge, block, etc, if other people there are on normal difficulty and just blow half the stuff up that I am fighting. It's a pointless feature the way they have implemented it. It clearly needed to be instanced by difficulty level to be usable so people are put with other people on the same difficulty setting.

But then that is nothing new, 2 team bgs could of been great, yet implementation is terrible, sub classing implementation so terrible it is actually detrimental to the game, etc.

So after 3 weeks of playing (the first time in 3 years) I uninstalled last night, no wonder that May for ESO was the worst May on Steamcharts since 2017 (which is even more pitiful when you consider that a far lower proportion of PC gamers used Steam back in 2017).