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How to Complete Challenge Difficulty Achievements Without the Challenge
PunkAben
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# Challenge Difficulty Achievements Can Be Easily Boosted
After testing the new Challenge Difficulty system, our guild found what appears to be a major flaw in how Challenge Difficulty achievements are awarded.
## How to Reproduce
1. Player A sets difficulty to Adventurer.
2. Player B sets difficulty to Vestige.
3. Group together.
4. Kill a Dragon, World Boss, or other achievement target.
5. Let Player A do most of the work.
Result: Player B receives the Vestige achievement despite receiving significant assistance from a player on a much lower difficulty setting.
## Example
We tested this with Dragons.
First Dragon:
* Several players were on the required challenge difficulty.
* One player was not.
* Players on the challenge difficulty received the achievement.
* The player on normal difficulty did not.
Second Dragon:
* The player who previously did not receive the achievement switched to the required challenge difficulty.
* Another player switched back to Adventurer.
* The player who switched difficulty immediately received the achievement on the next Dragon kill.
This suggests that the achievement only checks the player's selected difficulty at the moment of the kill.
## Why This Feels Wrong
The achievement appears to reward a menu setting rather than the actual challenge.
Currently, a player can:
* Set difficulty to Vestige.
* Join a group.
* Be carried by players on Adventurer.
* Receive the same achievement as someone who completed the encounter with an entire Vestige group.
## Possible Solution
One option could be to separate players by difficulty level, placing Adventurer, Seasoned, Master, and Vestige players into different instances of the zone.
Another option could be to require all members of a group to be on the same difficulty before Challenge Difficulty achievements are awarded.
I understand that the goal was to avoid splitting the player base, but the current implementation makes many of these achievements far easier than their descriptions suggest.
At the moment, Challenge Difficulty achievements seem to measure which difficulty you selected in the menu more accurately than the challenge you actually overcame.
After testing the new Challenge Difficulty system, our guild found what appears to be a major flaw in how Challenge Difficulty achievements are awarded.
## How to Reproduce
1. Player A sets difficulty to Adventurer.
2. Player B sets difficulty to Vestige.
3. Group together.
4. Kill a Dragon, World Boss, or other achievement target.
5. Let Player A do most of the work.
Result: Player B receives the Vestige achievement despite receiving significant assistance from a player on a much lower difficulty setting.
## Example
We tested this with Dragons.
First Dragon:
* Several players were on the required challenge difficulty.
* One player was not.
* Players on the challenge difficulty received the achievement.
* The player on normal difficulty did not.
Second Dragon:
* The player who previously did not receive the achievement switched to the required challenge difficulty.
* Another player switched back to Adventurer.
* The player who switched difficulty immediately received the achievement on the next Dragon kill.
This suggests that the achievement only checks the player's selected difficulty at the moment of the kill.
## Why This Feels Wrong
The achievement appears to reward a menu setting rather than the actual challenge.
Currently, a player can:
* Set difficulty to Vestige.
* Join a group.
* Be carried by players on Adventurer.
* Receive the same achievement as someone who completed the encounter with an entire Vestige group.
## Possible Solution
One option could be to separate players by difficulty level, placing Adventurer, Seasoned, Master, and Vestige players into different instances of the zone.
Another option could be to require all members of a group to be on the same difficulty before Challenge Difficulty achievements are awarded.
I understand that the goal was to avoid splitting the player base, but the current implementation makes many of these achievements far easier than their descriptions suggest.
At the moment, Challenge Difficulty achievements seem to measure which difficulty you selected in the menu more accurately than the challenge you actually overcame.
The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do.The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do.
Ted Nelson.
Ted Nelson.
8
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AScarlato✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Since we all knew that this is how it works, I don't think Challenge Achievements should exist outside solo arenas.22 -
ESO_player123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭II do not know if you frequently using the forums, but there is really no reason to break down how to do it. People have been pointing out that this exact thing will be happening since we learned that there will be no separate instances.
Also, you could probably get the same result without grouping since for achievements like this all you need to do is to participate, not do it yourself.10 -
PunkAben✭✭✭What happens if you are not grouped and people with different difficulty levels kill the same dragon?
Is there a solution that doesn't involve separate instances for the difficulty levels?
That's actually a fair point.
The issue isn't limited to groups. If a Vestige player and ten Adventurer players are fighting the same Dragon, the Vestige player is still benefiting from the lower difficulty players doing part of the work.
I don't necessarily think separate instances are the only solution. However, the current system allows players to earn Challenge achievements while receiving significant assistance from players on lower difficulties.
Perhaps achievement credit could require that everyone in a group is on the same or higher difficulty, while public world events remain unchanged.
Right now the achievements seem to track which difficulty setting you selected rather than the challenge you actually overcame.The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do.The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do.
Ted Nelson.0 -
ESO_player123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What happens if you are not grouped and people with different difficulty levels kill the same dragon?
Is there a solution that doesn't involve separate instances for the difficulty levels?
That's actually a fair point.
The issue isn't limited to groups. If a Vestige player and ten Adventurer players are fighting the same Dragon, the Vestige player is still benefiting from the lower difficulty players doing part of the work.
I don't necessarily think separate instances are the only solution. However, the current system allows players to earn Challenge achievements while receiving significant assistance from players on lower difficulties.
Perhaps achievement credit could require that everyone in a group is on the same or higher difficulty, while public world events remain unchanged.
Right now the achievements seem to track which difficulty setting you selected rather than the challenge you actually overcame.
How would changes to grouping resolve the issue if all a solo Vestige needs to do is land a couple of hits on a boss that Adventurers are fighting?1 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They said that they knew this could happen from the beginning.
You can get carried with all other achievements in the game as well. Carrying someone merely because you play together is not an exploit IMO.
The whole point of the system was that people could play together even on different difficulties so unless they actually put some serious rewards in there, I don't see the big deal.
I can go carry someone through a vet dungeon achievement right now but nobody would argue that being way more powerful of a DPS than my fellow player means dungeons shouldn't have achievements.
Edited by spartaxoxo on June 8, 2026 9:17PM20 -
PunkAben✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »They said that they knew this could happen from the beginning.
You can get carried with all other achievements in the game as well. Carrying someone merely because you play together is not an exploit IMO.
The whole point of the system was that people could play together even on different difficulties so unless they actually put some serious rewards in there, I don't see the big deal.
I can go carry someone through a vet dungeon achievement right now but nobody would argue that being way more powerful of a DPS than my fellow player means dungeons shouldn't have achievements.
I understand the argument that players can be carried for many achievements in ESO.
However, my bigger concern is the XP gain.
If a player on Vestige can group with a player on Adventurer, receive the Vestige XP bonus, and still benefit from the lower difficulty player's kill speed, then the most efficient way to gain XP may not be to actually play on Vestige.
At that point the system is no longer rewarding players for overcoming a greater challenge. It is rewarding players for selecting a higher difficulty setting while someone else compensates for the penalties.
Helping friends is not an exploit. My concern is that the current implementation may unintentionally create the best XP farming strategy rather than the most challenging gameplay experience.The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do.The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do.
Ted Nelson.1 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Helping friends is not an exploit. My concern is that the current implementation may unintentionally create the best XP farming strategy rather than the most challenging gameplay experience.
It was already the case that one of the best ways to power level was to get someone to carry you through BRP or Skyreach.
I don't see how adding Alik'r dolmens to that list is a big deal.
Getting someone to power level you was a thing before this modifier, it will be a thing after this modifier, and it would continue to be a thing if they removed it.
Exp has no real impact on anyone else. So, it's not a good reason to hinder a feature.
Who cares if someone wants to level up their friend or guildmate faster so they can play content together more quickly? How does that negatively impact anyone else?Edited by spartaxoxo on June 8, 2026 9:23PM15 -
PunkAben✭✭✭I wasn't really arguing whether it should be changed or not.
I was simply pointing out how the system currently works.
If your goal is faster XP gains or easier Challenge Difficulty achievements, one player can stay on Adventurer while another stays on Vestige. The Adventurer player can help clear content faster while the Vestige player still receives the higher difficulty rewards and achievement credit.
Whether that's good, bad, intended, or unintended is a separate discussion. I was mostly sharing the results of our testing so people understand how the system currently behaves.
The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do.The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do.
Ted Nelson.1 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Since we all knew that this is how it works, I don't think Challenge Achievements should exist outside solo arenas.
Should we take them out of anything that isn't a solo instanced area? You can carry people through vet Hm trifectas on trials too.Edited by Attorneyatlawl on June 9, 2026 4:24AM-First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.3 -
AScarlato✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Attorneyatlawl wrote: »
You can distinguish those as everyone is doing the same challenge.
Challenge achievements where the rest around you are on EZ mode I don’t view as the same thing.
So my answer to your question is no.2 -
Aliniel✭✭✭✭✭We all knew this is going to be an issue and we all warned ZOS about it and they just chose to ignore it (they even admitted that in the patch notes comments on the PTS). So, yes... those achievements are... pointless.4 -
ESO_player123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Attorneyatlawl wrote: »
About carrying through vet HM trifecta:
1. you need a dedicated group that can clear difficult content with 1 less person
2. it's not cheap for the buyer
3. the number of players is limited, so one cannot just tag along for the ride.
To get the achievements for higher difficulty kills all a Vestige needs to do is land a couple of hits while a couple of random Adventurers lay waste to mobs.4 -
Aislinna✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why do other people's achievements matter to anybody else?
To some people the achievements are just a list to be completed by any means possible and to other people the achievements are challenges to accomplished according to their own definition of what matters to them. And other people don't care about achievements at all.
10 -
OsUfi✭✭✭✭✭
✭BRP runs, writs, and Skyreach can all power level to 50 incredibly quickly with little effort. ZoS seem fine with these levelling methods. So the reward of extra XP and gold means nothing.
As for the achievements, there is one Vestige achievement. It gets a title. That's it. Everything else can be achieved on Seasoned, which anybody can do. Unlike the many vet HM runs people have been selling for years, giving people mounts, skins, all sorts.
These are molehills, not mountains.8 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Helping friends is not an exploit. My concern is that the current implementation may unintentionally create the best XP farming strategy rather than the most challenging gameplay experience.
The Challenge system isn't the most challenging gameplay experience. To get that:- Take off all armour and jewellery
- Equip only white weapons
- Clear all champion points
- Remove potions from quickslot
- Don't use buff food
- Set challenge difficulty to Normal/Adventurer
On a fundamental level there is no difference between doing that and engaging in the challenge system, both are player choices to deliberately nerf themselves.
Vestige is way way overtuned, and I believe deliberately so. WBs and WEs are doing higher damage per hit than the most powerful of trial HM bosses. It's a challenge to be sure, but one you can also create yourself without selecting Vestige.
I am happy only 1 achievement is linked to Vestige, and it's all done barring the Dynamic Encounters released on the 8th. I shall be rocking around on Seasoned difficulty for the other achievements, and it feels a much more balanced setting, without insane incoming damage and a much smaller gap between it and normal.
Mobs are tougher, fights take longer, achievements will be mine.PC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!2 -
AScarlato✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why do other people's achievements matter to anybody else?
To some people the achievements are just a list to be completed by any means possible and to other people the achievements are challenges to accomplished according to their own definition of what matters to them. And other people don't care about achievements at all.
I have never chased achievements in games in general; I think they are pointless entirely other than maybe a memento of "I did that." Some games have achievements just for getting through an intro cutscene lol.
But here these new achievements feel especially disingenuous because it's stating you did something on a harder difficulty, and your playing on a specific difficulty being the focus. They are truly meaningless with how the system was implemented, unlike being carried in a vet dungeon or something where everyone there is experiencing the same challenge.4 -
Athory✭✭✭✭I really don't want to be toxic or anything like that, but let's be honest here.
What else do any of you expect when both players are in the same instance? What do you expect when "challenge difficulty" is managed by nerfing your DPS and your resistances?
Seriously, how do you even believe ESO could be anything different from all this nonsense? Why!?
Blizzard once said, "Do you guys not have phones?"
ZoS could start using: "You asked for a challenge? Well, now you deal less damage and take more damage."
Edited by Athory on June 9, 2026 1:56PM1 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭What happens if you are not grouped and people with different difficulty levels kill the same dragon?
Is there a solution that doesn't involve separate instances for the difficulty levels?
That's actually a fair point.
The issue isn't limited to groups. If a Vestige player and ten Adventurer players are fighting the same Dragon, the Vestige player is still benefiting from the lower difficulty players doing part of the work.
I don't necessarily think separate instances are the only solution. However, the current system allows players to earn Challenge achievements while receiving significant assistance from players on lower difficulties.
Perhaps achievement credit could require that everyone in a group is on the same or higher difficulty, while public world events remain unchanged.
Right now the achievements seem to track which difficulty setting you selected rather than the challenge you actually overcame.
This isnt exactly breaking news. Being carried through achievements is something that happens quite often.
So much so that there is an entire economy around it.
This isnt exactly broken.
The only way to fix this would be to instance the modes and zos said they weren't going to do it.
So ya it can be cheesed a bit. But thats why the benefits are meh.
It was implemented just to appease players and is a personal choice.1 -
OsUfi✭✭✭✭✭
✭I really don't want to be toxic or anything like that, but let's be honest here.
Try not appearing in every thread dunking on difficult modes or content that may require grouping. 👍What else do any of you expect when both players are in the same instance? What do you expect when "challenge difficulty" is managed by nerfing your DPS and your resistances?
Seriously, how do you even believe ESO could be anything different from all this nonsense? Why!?
I mean, this is exactly what I want. Once the hype dies down a bit I'll be doing all the stories again on Master difficulty. So hyped!
7 -
frogthroat✭✭✭✭✭
✭It doesn't affect your resistances. It alters your damage taken and damage done. Your resistances remain as they are.
But in OPs message, the solutions presented here would be against what ZOS wanted. The plan was from the beginning to have everyone mixed regardless of their chosen difficulty level. And if they would make any changes to that, then it would also remove the "change the setting whenever you want" option - you would either have it disabled and need to go to a special place to change it, it would reload if you change it to place you to a different instance, or the change would be in effect after next loading screen. All of these would not be what ZOS planned.
I suppose that's why the gold and XP gained is so minimal (+100% of pocket change is still pocket change) so that you can't exploit it by one going Adventurer and another one Vestige and let the Adventurer carry. Since there is no real benefit to exploit, people playing on Vestige beyond the one achievement are doing it for themselves, for the challenge, for fun. Having an Adventurer on your side would only take away from the challenge you chose to have for your own enjoyment. So I don't really see the issue.3 -
Lekjih✭✭✭The real question is who cares? It's a character level achievement, not even an xbox etc achievement. It doesn't mean anything, who cares if that's how you get the achievement?671d played, 257 on a Warden.
Lucent clannfear suggestion sketch on my profile3
