aetherix8 wrote: »

How rude, wrong and condescending some of the comments here are.

This reminds me of tbagging. If it bothers me and I ask the tbagger to stop, but they ignore my request and keep doing their ***, then they have crossed a line, will get reported, and might get banned.

This isn't the same thing. OP said she got into an argument with the person, not that they kept sending her invites.

I'm not even sure why arguing with people is necessary when you can just block them.

Whatever OP initially said sounded like it escalated an argument rather than just moving on and ignoring it.

SilverBride wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

aetherix8 wrote: »

How rude, wrong and condescending some of the comments here are.

This reminds me of tbagging. If it bothers me and I ask the tbagger to stop, but they ignore my request and keep doing their ***, then they have crossed a line, will get reported, and might get banned.

This isn't the same thing. OP said she got into an argument with the person, not that they kept sending her invites.

I'm not even sure why arguing with people is necessary when you can just block them.

Whatever OP initially said sounded like it escalated an argument rather than just moving on and ignoring it.

I never said that we got into an argument. They whispered their guild spam followed immediately by an invite. I replied to not send me any more unsolicited guild invites and they started going off on me saying I'm not their Mom and I can't tell them what to do and they will do what they want. I replied that I was going to report them so ZOS sees me asking them not to do it again, then immediately reported them which put them on ignore. I don't consider that an argument.

SilverBride wrote: »

I replied to not send any more guild invites and they argued saying I wasn't their mom and they can do what they want. I replied I was going to report them and not to do it again but they kept arguing until I got the ticket submitted, which put them on ignore.

That is literally an argument. You kept replying to someone that you yourself said was arguing with you. It's voluntary to keep engagement, and responding to someone arguing with you with an argument is arguing. Threatening to report them I would also view as an escalation.

You said earlier that they could have responded respectfully, but you could also have responded initially with a "no thank you" which likely would not have elicited whatever ended up happening.

To me both parties in this situation could have responded differently than they had. I know you are frustrated by sometimes getting a guild invite, but perhaps your being out of patience means you also over-react to them when most people just move on?

Nordstern wrote: »

Well, in my opinion it is absolutely debatable if ZOS's stance on this is right.

Your view is irrelevant. You agree to ZOS' rules and their interpretation of them every time you login.

Nordstern wrote: »

If I missed it I apologize but i havent seen any info from ZOS about banning Cronus users for example. Other developers have done it, its absolutely possible.

Section 5.1: https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/code-of-conduct

AScarlato wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

aetherix8 wrote: »

How rude, wrong and condescending some of the comments here are.

This reminds me of tbagging. If it bothers me and I ask the tbagger to stop, but they ignore my request and keep doing their ***, then they have crossed a line, will get reported, and might get banned.

This isn't the same thing. OP said she got into an argument with the person, not that they kept sending her invites.

I'm not even sure why arguing with people is necessary when you can just block them.

Whatever OP initially said sounded like it escalated an argument rather than just moving on and ignoring it.

I never said that we got into an argument. They whispered their guild spam followed immediately by an invite. I replied to not send me any more unsolicited guild invites and they started going off on me saying I'm not their Mom and I can't tell them what to do and they will do what they want. I replied that I was going to report them so ZOS sees me asking them not to do it again, then immediately reported them which put them on ignore. I don't consider that an argument.

SilverBride wrote: »

I replied to not send any more guild invites and they argued saying I wasn't their mom and they can do what they want. I replied I was going to report them and not to do it again but they kept arguing until I got the ticket submitted, which put them on ignore.

That is literally an argument. You kept replying to someone that you yourself said was arguing with you. It's voluntary to keep engagement, and responding to someone arguing with you with an argument is arguing. Threatening to report them I would also view as an escalation.

You said earlier that they could have responded respectfully, but you could also have responded initially with a "no thank you" which likely would not have elicited whatever ended up happening.

To me both parties in this situation could have responded differently than they had. I know you are frustrated by sometimes getting a guild invite, but perhaps your being out of patience means you also over-react to them when most people just move on?

So if I understand correctly, your best advice is: if something annoys me, just keep quiet about it and hope that it will magically never happen again? You say 'block this person and move on'; sure, so tomorrow his guild buddy on the same mission spams me again? I find this approach highly ineffective.

I've received guild invites which I declined without making a fuss out of it. It would be much different if someone actually whispered me their guild info, then sent me an invite. I have an addon to block guild recruitment messages in chat, and if I want to join a guild, I use the Guild Finder. I would find such a whisper extremely intrusive, just as I find advertising phone calls intrusive, wasting my time and disturbing my peace of mind. I used to tell such companies to delete my number from their database, and in some cases it worked (after many requests, when I finally lost my patience and reacted very angrily straight from the start of the call). So I would definitely let the overzealous recruiter know that I don't wish ever again to be receiving whispers from their guild, be it from them or another guild member, and ask them to kindly create a list of people never to be bothered and put my userID on it. I would most definitely "escalate" with a threat of a report to make sure the message is clearly received and taken into account, especially after being replied to with a dismissive "you're not my mom, I can do whatever I want". That reads to me as: I don't care at all that my behaviour annoys you and I will keep bothering you, and so will my guild, and so will any other aggressively recruiting guild. Just blocking this one person isn't going to solve the issue in the long term.

AScarlato wrote: »

aetherix8 wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

aetherix8 wrote: »

How rude, wrong and condescending some of the comments here are.

This reminds me of tbagging. If it bothers me and I ask the tbagger to stop, but they ignore my request and keep doing their ***, then they have crossed a line, will get reported, and might get banned.

This isn't the same thing. OP said she got into an argument with the person, not that they kept sending her invites.

I'm not even sure why arguing with people is necessary when you can just block them.

Whatever OP initially said sounded like it escalated an argument rather than just moving on and ignoring it.

I never said that we got into an argument. They whispered their guild spam followed immediately by an invite. I replied to not send me any more unsolicited guild invites and they started going off on me saying I'm not their Mom and I can't tell them what to do and they will do what they want. I replied that I was going to report them so ZOS sees me asking them not to do it again, then immediately reported them which put them on ignore. I don't consider that an argument.

SilverBride wrote: »

I replied to not send any more guild invites and they argued saying I wasn't their mom and they can do what they want. I replied I was going to report them and not to do it again but they kept arguing until I got the ticket submitted, which put them on ignore.

That is literally an argument. You kept replying to someone that you yourself said was arguing with you. It's voluntary to keep engagement, and responding to someone arguing with you with an argument is arguing. Threatening to report them I would also view as an escalation.

You said earlier that they could have responded respectfully, but you could also have responded initially with a "no thank you" which likely would not have elicited whatever ended up happening.

To me both parties in this situation could have responded differently than they had. I know you are frustrated by sometimes getting a guild invite, but perhaps your being out of patience means you also over-react to them when most people just move on?

So if I understand correctly, your best advice is: if something annoys me, just keep quiet about it and hope that it will magically never happen again? You say 'block this person and move on'; sure, so tomorrow his guild buddy on the same mission spams me again? I find this approach highly ineffective.

I've received guild invites which I declined without making a fuss out of it. It would be much different if someone actually whispered me their guild info, then sent me an invite. I have an addon to block guild recruitment messages in chat, and if I want to join a guild, I use the Guild Finder. I would find such a whisper extremely intrusive, just as I find advertising phone calls intrusive, wasting my time and disturbing my peace of mind. I used to tell such companies to delete my number from their database, and in some cases it worked (after many requests, when I finally lost my patience and reacted very angrily straight from the start of the call). So I would definitely let the overzealous recruiter know that I don't wish ever again to be receiving whispers from their guild, be it from them or another guild member, and ask them to kindly create a list of people never to be bothered and put my userID on it. I would most definitely "escalate" with a threat of a report to make sure the message is clearly received and taken into account, especially after being replied to with a dismissive "you're not my mom, I can do whatever I want". That reads to me as: I don't care at all that my behaviour annoys you and I will keep bothering you, and so will my guild, and so will any other aggressively recruiting guild. Just blocking this one person isn't going to solve the issue in the long term.

You do you. Been playing MMOs since 1999 and I just haven't ever felt the need to expend much energy on getting a guild invite I wasn't interested in. This entire conversation is more drama than needed IMO.

You do you. Just accept that different people have different sensitivities and what works for you does not necessarily work for the rest of the population, too.

AScarlato wrote: »

aetherix8 wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

aetherix8 wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

aetherix8 wrote: »

How rude, wrong and condescending some of the comments here are.

This reminds me of tbagging. If it bothers me and I ask the tbagger to stop, but they ignore my request and keep doing their ***, then they have crossed a line, will get reported, and might get banned.

This isn't the same thing. OP said she got into an argument with the person, not that they kept sending her invites.

I'm not even sure why arguing with people is necessary when you can just block them.

Whatever OP initially said sounded like it escalated an argument rather than just moving on and ignoring it.

I never said that we got into an argument. They whispered their guild spam followed immediately by an invite. I replied to not send me any more unsolicited guild invites and they started going off on me saying I'm not their Mom and I can't tell them what to do and they will do what they want. I replied that I was going to report them so ZOS sees me asking them not to do it again, then immediately reported them which put them on ignore. I don't consider that an argument.

SilverBride wrote: »

I replied to not send any more guild invites and they argued saying I wasn't their mom and they can do what they want. I replied I was going to report them and not to do it again but they kept arguing until I got the ticket submitted, which put them on ignore.

That is literally an argument. You kept replying to someone that you yourself said was arguing with you. It's voluntary to keep engagement, and responding to someone arguing with you with an argument is arguing. Threatening to report them I would also view as an escalation.

You said earlier that they could have responded respectfully, but you could also have responded initially with a "no thank you" which likely would not have elicited whatever ended up happening.

To me both parties in this situation could have responded differently than they had. I know you are frustrated by sometimes getting a guild invite, but perhaps your being out of patience means you also over-react to them when most people just move on?

So if I understand correctly, your best advice is: if something annoys me, just keep quiet about it and hope that it will magically never happen again? You say 'block this person and move on'; sure, so tomorrow his guild buddy on the same mission spams me again? I find this approach highly ineffective.

I've received guild invites which I declined without making a fuss out of it. It would be much different if someone actually whispered me their guild info, then sent me an invite. I have an addon to block guild recruitment messages in chat, and if I want to join a guild, I use the Guild Finder. I would find such a whisper extremely intrusive, just as I find advertising phone calls intrusive, wasting my time and disturbing my peace of mind. I used to tell such companies to delete my number from their database, and in some cases it worked (after many requests, when I finally lost my patience and reacted very angrily straight from the start of the call). So I would definitely let the overzealous recruiter know that I don't wish ever again to be receiving whispers from their guild, be it from them or another guild member, and ask them to kindly create a list of people never to be bothered and put my userID on it. I would most definitely "escalate" with a threat of a report to make sure the message is clearly received and taken into account, especially after being replied to with a dismissive "you're not my mom, I can do whatever I want". That reads to me as: I don't care at all that my behaviour annoys you and I will keep bothering you, and so will my guild, and so will any other aggressively recruiting guild. Just blocking this one person isn't going to solve the issue in the long term.

You do you. Been playing MMOs since 1999 and I just haven't ever felt the need to expend much energy on getting a guild invite I wasn't interested in. This entire conversation is more drama than needed IMO.

You do you. Just accept that different people have different sensitivities and what works for you does not necessarily work for the rest of the population, too.

Alright, but I found if I cared about my peace of mind, avoiding unnecessary arguments resulting in reports and then writing threads about a minor interaction can be helpful. Be well.

And I would do the same if it were the very first time, probably. Like I tolerated those companies' phone calls and listened to their operators who were just doing their probably badly paid and stressful job, and who didn't come up with this business model. But at some point enough is enough, and it seems that OP's situation isn't an isolated case but something that has become a more widespread issue.

And thank you, take care too.

Soarora wrote: »

I did actually get a message invite to a guild the other day, I didn’t get a guild invite pop-up but I’m in 5 guilds so that would be why. I wonder if it’s the same guild. They were trying to get their guild off the ground and were looking for admins. I got mine in Alinor and I saw the person sitting there again recently, but they didn’t message me again after I nicely told them I’m already GM of a guild so I cannot help them.

Edit: if it is the same guild, then I understand why they’re recruiting the way they are and there’s nothing objectively wrong with their method. HOWEVER, the reply to you is wildly unprofessional. I support that we should have a way to turn off guild invites. We already can by having 5 guilds, let people turn off guild invites without joining 5 random guilds and taking up a spot that another player, one who would interact with the guild, could inhabit.

It sounds like the same guild. And it seems they are doing this at multiple locations so they could have multiple members doing this.

I do find something wrong with their method because it is very much like what the other guild was doing which caused a lot of distress in the community.

SilverBride wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

That is literally an argument. You kept replying to someone that you yourself said was arguing with you. It's voluntary to keep engagement, and responding to someone arguing with you with an argument is arguing. Threatening to report them I would also view as an escalation.

You said earlier that they could have responded respectfully, but you could also have responded initially with a "no thank you" which likely would not have elicited whatever ended up happening.

To me both parties in this situation could have responded differently than they had. I know you are frustrated by sometimes getting a guild invite, but perhaps your being out of patience means you also over-react to them when most people just move on?

I disagree. We have been told that if someone does something we do not want, such as teabagging or unwanted guild invites, we should ask them to stop. Then if they continue we can report them for it. I asked them to stop and informed them that I was reporting to document my request. So I did exactly as we have been told to do in such situations.

And I said they kept arguing as I was submitting the ticket. I never said another word to them.

How is that going to work? You expect everyone to create a list of people that dont want guild invites and check that every time they invite someone? Thats not realistic and btw this is EXACTLY what a block/ignore feature was made for.

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Nordstern wrote: »

If I missed it I apologize but i havent seen any info from ZOS about banning Cronus users for example. Other developers have done it, its absolutely possible.

Section 5.1: https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/code-of-conduct

And you dont understand that it's a huge difference between stating in the TOS that it's forbidden and actually implementing detection systems that automatically ban script users? Of course its prohibited, just as in every other game.

Nordstern wrote: »

And you dont understand that it's a huge difference between stating in the TOS that it's forbidden and actually implementing detection systems that automatically ban script users? Of course its prohibited, just as in every other game.

Doesn't alter that ZOS ban such things, but by all means you move the goalposts as your argument is dismantled in one sentence.

Also, Microsoft have said they are working on detection tools for things like Cronus. You get that takes time, right?

SwordOfSagas wrote: »

aetherix8 wrote: »

How rude, wrong and condescending some of the comments here are.

This reminds me of tbagging. If it bothers me and I ask the tbagger to stop, but they ignore my request and keep doing their ***, then they have crossed a line, will get reported, and might get banned. Disclaimer: it doesn't bother me and I happen to tbag others from time to time.

The same rule applies here IMHO. If someone whispers guild info to me and invites me, and I decline and ask them to stop sending me invites, but they keep refusing to respect my decision, then they have crossed a line, will get reported, and might get banned. It is as simple as that, end of story.

But did you read the whole post? The OP didn't say they got another invite after asking them to stop, the OP said the person responded say no you're not my mum. It's just a petty argument that's been blown up to get someone banned or whatever, People need to stop being so offended by every little thing. At this point they might as well remove chat all together from the game just in case some gets emotional.

I’m not going to put words in SilverBride’s mouth, but I didn’t get the vibe of wanting the person banned for this instance, but rather that guild invitations should be limited to zone chat and/or a toggle to auto-decline guild invites. Whilst I agree that people shouldn’t be offended by every little thing and in this case, they stopped when asked, it would be a concerning development for more guilds to pick up the strategy of sending invites willy-nilly and dming people. The former can be addressed with an auto-decline toggle. The latter, I don’t suspect would be something that can reasonably be moderated, but it would suck if it became a situation of getting spammed with dms when you’re trying to talk to a friend. Slippery slope fallacy though, can deal with that if we get there I suppose.

SilverBride wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I’m not going to put words in SilverBride’s mouth, but I didn’t get the vibe of wanting the person banned for this instance, but rather that guild invitations should be limited to zone chat and/or a toggle to auto-decline guild invites. Whilst I agree that people shouldn’t be offended by every little thing and in this case, they stopped when asked, it would be a concerning development for more guilds to pick up the strategy of sending invites willy-nilly and dming people. The former can be addressed with an auto-decline toggle. The latter, I don’t suspect would be something that can reasonably be moderated, but it would suck if it became a situation of getting spammed with dms when you’re trying to talk to a friend. Slippery slope fallacy though, can deal with that if we get there I suppose.

This is exactly right. I think bans should only happen for the worst offenses and I don't expect any action to be taken in this case other than ZOS implementing a toggle. And it would be nice if guilds didn't just send invites without the player showing interest because that gets irritating really fast.

So you reported another player as a way to request a QOL feature?

AScarlato wrote: »

So you reported another player as a way to request a QOL feature?

The way I see it, ZOS has indicated that they need to see a record of the player asking the other player to stop for them to consider any action. So I can understand if it's more about checking boxes and less about punishing the player.

Soarora wrote: »

I’m not going to put words in SilverBride’s mouth, but I didn’t get the vibe of wanting the person banned for this instance, but rather that guild invitations should be limited to zone chat and/or a toggle to auto-decline guild invites. Whilst I agree that people shouldn’t be offended by every little thing and in this case, they stopped when asked, it would be a concerning development for more guilds to pick up the strategy of sending invites willy-nilly and dming people. The former can be addressed with an auto-decline toggle. The latter, I don’t suspect would be something that can reasonably be moderated, but it would suck if it became a situation of getting spammed with dms when you’re trying to talk to a friend. Slippery slope fallacy though, can deal with that if we get there I suppose.

I agree with this. Having one guild whisper an invite may seem harmless, but if it becomes a popular practice, you could end up with 10 whispered ads in your chat window. I think most people would find that a nuisance.

AScarlato wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

The way I see it, ZOS has indicated that they need to see a record of the player asking the other player to stop for them to consider any action. So I can understand if it's more about checking boxes and less about punishing the player.

I'd imagine ZOS would not want reports for situations just to document conversations "in case" something happens in the future that hasn't actually happened. Do they really want us to send in customer service reports for every conversation to document possible future disagreements with other players that may never occur?

I'd believe it's a terrible waste of resources and I'd personally find such an instruction outright bizarre. Especially when we can solve such issues with an in-game function that already exists - blocking.

We don't know who to block until they have already done something. Then it's too late to stop the action.

Well, maybe I am in the minority on these forums with how this thread played out.

I said I was done with it, but I am truly baffled by some perspectives here.

For example in response to the above, no, I don't think the CS team is interested in getting reports every time I'm annoyed.

Also as I mentioned before, getting whispers from people in FFXIV is commonplace if you are guildless. There, it's viewed as the community being welcoming. Here it's something people want to report you for I guess. I guess that's why this thread left a bad taste in my mouth overall, despite also being in favor of a toggle.