Why destroy subclassing?

Avran_Sylt · May 31

Radiate77 wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

People generally dislike a specific synergy possible with Subclassing in PvP, and another specific synergy in PvE… not the system itself.

It’s like amputating your arm for a papercut.

I’ve seen this before in a game that used to host over 100,000 concurrent active players each expansion that is now sitting at what… dropping below like 10,000 people?

Let’s do what they did./s
Imagine being a Destiny and ESO fan. 🥲

Wow does it feel bad to see this… even more reason to avoid walking back systems people know and love. We do not want to end up like those guys.

An RPG needs to grow to stay relevant, and you do not grow by creating content and then sunsetting it like we’re seeing with Red War -> Forsaken Night Market, or by walking back systems like Weapon Crafting Subclassing through Weapon Tiering Class Mastery.

I hate watching this in real time. 😅

What do you mean?

Subclassing isn't leaving (like bungie sunsetting all their content, like making gun models, in a gun game, be unobtainable (still salty about never getting that Uzi looking one)), Class Mastery is just growing more opportunities.

CatalinaWineMixer2 · May 31

Radiate77 wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

People generally dislike a specific synergy possible with Subclassing in PvP, and another specific synergy in PvE… not the system itself.

It’s like amputating your arm for a papercut.

I’ve seen this before in a game that used to host over 100,000 concurrent active players each expansion that is now sitting at what… dropping below like 10,000 people?

Let’s do what they did./s
Imagine being a Destiny and ESO fan. 🥲

Wow does it feel bad to see this… even more reason to avoid walking back systems people know and love. We do not want to end up like those guys.

An RPG needs to grow to stay relevant, and you do not grow by creating content and then sunsetting it like we’re seeing with Red War -> Forsaken Night Market, or by walking back systems like Weapon Crafting Subclassing through Weapon Tiering Class Mastery.

I hate watching this in real time. 😅

Or everyone that fled that and New World is trying to turn this game into that and World of Warcraft. Subclassing needs to go. It is a no rules unblanceable cherry picking system. And they need to start considering a dps cap. So there isnt always a meta.

Radiate77 · May 31

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

People generally dislike a specific synergy possible with Subclassing in PvP, and another specific synergy in PvE… not the system itself.

It’s like amputating your arm for a papercut.

I’ve seen this before in a game that used to host over 100,000 concurrent active players each expansion that is now sitting at what… dropping below like 10,000 people?

Let’s do what they did./s
Imagine being a Destiny and ESO fan. 🥲

Wow does it feel bad to see this… even more reason to avoid walking back systems people know and love. We do not want to end up like those guys.

An RPG needs to grow to stay relevant, and you do not grow by creating content and then sunsetting it like we’re seeing with Red War -> Forsaken Night Market, or by walking back systems like Weapon Crafting Subclassing through Weapon Tiering Class Mastery.

I hate watching this in real time. 😅

What do you mean?

Subclassing isn't leaving (like bungie sunsetting all their content, like making gun models, in a gun game, be unobtainable (still salty about never getting that Uzi looking one)), Class Mastery is just growing more opportunities.

Weapon Crafting never left either. It just got power crept so heavily by Tier 5s, sort of like what we are about to see with “pure” Dragonknight (already the best option available in PvP) using Class Mastery to further the gap between options.

It’s the same thing, happening all over again…

Silaf · May 31

Thoriorz wrote: »

I'm speaking for myself and my build; right now I'm sticking with the subclass. I tried the PTS class passives, and my DPS is lower...

Agree pure classes passives should be buffed to be on par with subclassing usual meta.
The problem in balancing this at the moment is that all classes will get a rework messing up tings again.

IviRo · May 31

Ardriel wrote: »

Nordstern wrote: »

No matter what they do, there will always be some people crying in the forums. The vast majority of players dont like subclassing, so theyre doing the exact right thing. And btw it will still be competitive, i guess youre just frustrated that some cheese build wont overperform anymore.

I'm not "crying", I'm asking a question and would like to find out why ZOS is doing this. However a lot of people were actually "crying" in the forums, after subclassing was introduced... but of course that's something different, isn't it?

Btw I'm not frustrated that some "cheese build won't overperform anymore". I would be happy to play my main (templar) pure class. But unfortunately ZOS didn't bother to buff Templar Class Mastery enough to be competitive...

Seems to me that you on the other hand are frustrated that casual players with cheesy builds are doing same or maybe even better dps than you...

Anyway, if the vast majority of players hate subclassing, then it will be dead soon.
It' a shame but luckily I don't have to play this game if I don't want to.

In order not to ask such questions, you need to watch their streams and read the news. ZOS has already stated that these passives are aimed at equalizing classes due to recycling, so that DK or Warden, etc., do not have non-PvP or non-PvE advantages while they are being processed. When the recycling is completed next year, all classes will be on an equal footing and these passives will be removed or most likely re-earned for those who want to play exclusively with a clean class. I still can't figure out where the opinion came from that these passives are aimed at destroying subclasses. When there are only DK or subclasses in the same PvP, well, PvE does not lag behind.

Heydan_Seegil · May 31

Toanis wrote: »

If you are one of the meta disciples, there is no difference between paying "a beam build" or going back to Arcanist. And if you are not, your current subclassing build is as effective as it is now, even when there is a more powerful variant without subclassing.

I love Subclassing because I play an off-Meta Necro-Knight cursed with the dark gift from Molag Bal due to his experience as the Vestige in Cold Harbor who works closely with Vanus Galerion to control the temptations of evil his powers bring with them. I have never once put a point into a criminal skill and let me tell you how under powered Necromancers are if you don't play them like the necrophiliacs they most often are. Practically all the damage skills are tied to criminal acts making Vanus Galerion's favorite Necromancer build a tank without teeth. I had to get damage from other skill lines and Subclassing opened the door up for me in such a major way!

That being said there are hard-core Meta facist who heep trash on your build if it isn't their cookie cutter "perfect" build from Reddit. They're even worse after you stomp their build while being lower level. I haven't lost a duel yet and I was dueling before subclassing, but I digress. There are always going to be Metas as well as off Meta builders like myself just like there should be Pure Class and Subclass players out there. I agree with boosting Pure Classes to bring them back up to snuff but needing Subclasses so they are no longer competitive isn't going to re-balance the game. I'm still going to be too tanky for most people to murder in a duel and able to solo World Bosses etc as again I started my character before Subclassing but I'll loose out on the stuff that makes the game fun as well as easier to play. ... like back in the day the issue with soloing a World Boss wasn't how tough it was. It was that it would take so long to kill that the health bar would reset. So, it was like a time trial to kill those things.

I love my Necro-Knight. Don't nerf me. I have been obeying Vanus Galerion rules by not using unapproved Necromancy. Please... don't do this.