blocking direction?

moo_2021 · May 24

Wouldn't it be better if blocking only works on the direction you're facing, like 120 or 180 degrees? The current design means that players can literally block attacks from their back while they're jumping away, or block all attacks when surrounded on all sides. Doesn't make any sense yes? All other actions need some direction, e.g. melee attacks and interrupt (imagine your light melee attack just hit everyone on your back!)

Avran_Sylt · May 24

I think the ship has sailed on that, but it would make kiting, and moving, as a tank in PvE more demanding (and in my opinion more interesting).

Could perhaps be an interesting idea for a mythic to allow squishier setups to be able to tank more damage (though the Trials pushers probably would complain, and no doubt it'd be extremely problematic in PvP if it's just an additional layer ontop of some of the already ridiculous defenses that are possible).

LunaFlora · May 24

it would be more realistic, but not better i think

Varana · May 24

AFAIK, there is exactly one fight in the game where that matters - the Pinnacle Factotum in HoF.

But no, it would not make it better. Are you playing a tank regularly?

Gabriel_H · May 24

The game struggles enough with knowing your exact position, asking it to also know your exact direction ... yikes!

Soarora · May 24

This would actually be cool and perhaps replace the interest that was taken away when blocking through barswap was added. But with all the block bugs that we’ve had, I don’t think people would be keen on ZOS touching the blocking system again.

SkaiFaith · May 24

moo_2021 wrote: »

Wouldn't it be better if blocking only works on the direction you're facing, like 120 or 180 degrees? The current design means that players can literally block attacks from their back while they're jumping away, or block all attacks when surrounded on all sides. Doesn't make any sense yes? All other actions need some direction, e.g. melee attacks and interrupt (imagine your light melee attack just hit everyone on your back!)

I can only guess but... This is a PvP comment, right?

No way an Infinite Archive/Night Market player would suggest this.

No offense btw, just making a guess. I could totally be wrong here.

Soarora · May 24

SkaiFaith wrote: »

moo_2021 wrote: »

Wouldn't it be better if blocking only works on the direction you're facing, like 120 or 180 degrees? The current design means that players can literally block attacks from their back while they're jumping away, or block all attacks when surrounded on all sides. Doesn't make any sense yes? All other actions need some direction, e.g. melee attacks and interrupt (imagine your light melee attack just hit everyone on your back!)

No way an Infinite Archive/Night Market player would suggest this.

Why not? Most of the time in PvE, your enemies are in front of you or to your side, i.e. not flanking you. The instances I can think of where an enemy would flank you are:
- You’re chaining/taunting something behind you
- The base-game dungeon bosses that teleport behind you
- You’re standing in the center of a trash pack
- Standing between enemies (i.e. one strategy of oathsworn pit first boss)

For the first, that usually doesn’t happen but if it does, that’s when the minigame here comes into play. For the second, this minigame would add interest to those (very annoying) mechanics. For the third, you most likely don’t need to block trash but imo if you can, you shouldn’t be in the center of trash anyway because if you continue to move forward, DPS can get their flanking bonuses from you turning around the enemies. For the fourth, if you turn sideways, then they’d not be flanking you, so it’d only be relevant when turning to reapply taunt/debuffs.

SkaiFaith · May 24

Soarora wrote: »

SkaiFaith wrote: »

moo_2021 wrote: »

Wouldn't it be better if blocking only works on the direction you're facing, like 120 or 180 degrees? The current design means that players can literally block attacks from their back while they're jumping away, or block all attacks when surrounded on all sides. Doesn't make any sense yes? All other actions need some direction, e.g. melee attacks and interrupt (imagine your light melee attack just hit everyone on your back!)

No way an Infinite Archive/Night Market player would suggest this.

Why not? Most of the time in PvE, your enemies are in front of you or to your side, i.e. not flanking you. The instances I can think of where an enemy would flank you are:
- You’re chaining/taunting something behind you
- The base-game dungeon bosses that teleport behind you
- You’re standing in the center of a trash pack
- Standing between enemies (i.e. one strategy of oathsworn pit first boss)

For the first, that usually doesn’t happen but if it does, that’s when the minigame here comes into play. For the second, this minigame would add interest to those (very annoying) mechanics. For the third, you most likely don’t need to block trash but imo if you can, you shouldn’t be in the center of trash anyway because if you continue to move forward, DPS can get their flanking bonuses from you turning around the enemies. For the fourth, if you turn sideways, then they’d not be flanking you, so it’d only be relevant when turning to reapply taunt/debuffs.

"you most likely don’t need to block trash but imo if you can, you shouldn’t be in the center of trash anyway" - after miriads of comments on how everyone is dying in 2 hits from trash in NM, reading this feels a bit trolly or insincere.

Trash can surround you and kill you, both in NM and IA. I don't know in what reality this is not possible...

Soarora · May 24

SkaiFaith wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

SkaiFaith wrote: »

moo_2021 wrote: »

Wouldn't it be better if blocking only works on the direction you're facing, like 120 or 180 degrees? The current design means that players can literally block attacks from their back while they're jumping away, or block all attacks when surrounded on all sides. Doesn't make any sense yes? All other actions need some direction, e.g. melee attacks and interrupt (imagine your light melee attack just hit everyone on your back!)

No way an Infinite Archive/Night Market player would suggest this.

Why not? Most of the time in PvE, your enemies are in front of you or to your side, i.e. not flanking you. The instances I can think of where an enemy would flank you are:
- You’re chaining/taunting something behind you
- The base-game dungeon bosses that teleport behind you
- You’re standing in the center of a trash pack
- Standing between enemies (i.e. one strategy of oathsworn pit first boss)

For the first, that usually doesn’t happen but if it does, that’s when the minigame here comes into play. For the second, this minigame would add interest to those (very annoying) mechanics. For the third, you most likely don’t need to block trash but imo if you can, you shouldn’t be in the center of trash anyway because if you continue to move forward, DPS can get their flanking bonuses from you turning around the enemies. For the fourth, if you turn sideways, then they’d not be flanking you, so it’d only be relevant when turning to reapply taunt/debuffs.

"you most likely don’t need to block trash but imo if you can, you shouldn’t be in the center of trash anyway" - after miriads of comments on how everyone is dying in 2 hits from trash in NM, reading this feels a bit trolly or insincere.

Trash can surround you and kill you, both in NM and IA. I don't know in what reality this is not possible...

That was not my intention, know that I replied from a tank perspective because that’s what I know. I am not a solo player, hence why I asked “why not?” and shared more information on my opinion instead of flat out trying to convince you to agree with me. I do not feel like I have been surrounded when I have soloed IA and NM, but it’s also possible that I just don’t remember.

Edit: And I will admit, I should have connected the dots when you said IA/NM that I should not have talked about tanking with no context.

Edit2: Changed some wording, I can get more aggressive at times on the forum than there’s any need to be. On further reflection, that bit has been removed/reworded.

Finedaible · May 24

Positional desync in ESO is pretty bad, so it would probably just make it really frustrating to properly block in PvE content. Just try and complete stage 7 of Vet Maelstrom arena to see how bad positional desync can get.

Blood_again · May 24

Gabriel_H wrote: »

The game struggles enough with knowing your exact position, asking it to also know your exact direction ... yikes!

You come extremely close to formulating the Heisenberg uncertainty principle for games.

SkaiFaith · May 24

Soarora wrote: »

SkaiFaith wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

SkaiFaith wrote: »

moo_2021 wrote: »

Wouldn't it be better if blocking only works on the direction you're facing, like 120 or 180 degrees? The current design means that players can literally block attacks from their back while they're jumping away, or block all attacks when surrounded on all sides. Doesn't make any sense yes? All other actions need some direction, e.g. melee attacks and interrupt (imagine your light melee attack just hit everyone on your back!)

No way an Infinite Archive/Night Market player would suggest this.

Why not? Most of the time in PvE, your enemies are in front of you or to your side, i.e. not flanking you. The instances I can think of where an enemy would flank you are:
- You’re chaining/taunting something behind you
- The base-game dungeon bosses that teleport behind you
- You’re standing in the center of a trash pack
- Standing between enemies (i.e. one strategy of oathsworn pit first boss)

For the first, that usually doesn’t happen but if it does, that’s when the minigame here comes into play. For the second, this minigame would add interest to those (very annoying) mechanics. For the third, you most likely don’t need to block trash but imo if you can, you shouldn’t be in the center of trash anyway because if you continue to move forward, DPS can get their flanking bonuses from you turning around the enemies. For the fourth, if you turn sideways, then they’d not be flanking you, so it’d only be relevant when turning to reapply taunt/debuffs.

"you most likely don’t need to block trash but imo if you can, you shouldn’t be in the center of trash anyway" - after miriads of comments on how everyone is dying in 2 hits from trash in NM, reading this feels a bit trolly or insincere.

Trash can surround you and kill you, both in NM and IA. I don't know in what reality this is not possible...

That was not my intention, know that I replied from a tank perspective because that’s what I know. I am not a solo player, hence why I asked “why not?” and shared more information on my opinion instead of flat out trying to convince you to agree with me. I do not feel like I have been surrounded when I have soloed IA and NM, but it’s also possible that I just don’t remember.

Edit: And I will admit, I should have connected the dots when you said IA/NM that I should not have talked about tanking with no context.

Edit2: Changed some wording, I can get more aggressive at times on the forum than there’s any need to be. On further reflection, that bit has been removed/reworded.

Thanks, no worries, I see now you meant from a tank perspective. Hope I didn't pass as rude.

DenverRalphy · May 24

Gabriel_H wrote: »

The game struggles enough with knowing your exact position, asking it to also know your exact direction ... yikes!

It already does know. Otherwise it couldn't calculate conal aoe's, recognize flanking, etc..

Ordinator199 · May 25

While there are a few mechanics that actually depend on the direction your camera or character is facing — the scare mechanic in Graven Deep comes to mind — blocking has become such a deeply ingrained, hardcoded mechanic in players’ minds that you can block attacks even with your back turned to them.

Changing that now would probably cause massive backlash from the playerbase. Altering such a fundamental system that everyone has been used to for years, especially by flipping it in the complete opposite direction (pun intended), is rarely a good idea from what I’ve seen in gaming

Gabriel_H · May 25

Soarora wrote: »

Why not? Most of the time in PvE, your enemies are in front of you or to your side, i.e. not flanking you. The instances I can think of where an enemy would flank you are:
- You’re chaining/taunting something behind you
- The base-game dungeon bosses that teleport behind you
- You’re standing in the center of a trash pack
- Standing between enemies (i.e. one strategy of oathsworn pit first boss)

Yes, when you are tanking. The place block is used the most.

Gabriel_H · May 25

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

The game struggles enough with knowing your exact position, asking it to also know your exact direction ... yikes!

It already does know. Otherwise it couldn't calculate conal aoe's, recognize flanking, etc..

I was being slightly flippant, but:

Go run SCP HM or CA HM. Do it enough times and the words "There is no damn way I was in that" becomes part of your vocabulary. Those are just two out of dozens of examples where the inaccuracy of server positioning can cause unintended problems.

Something like directional blocking requires considerably more precision and substantially more server calcs than the current directional mechanics. Conal/Frontal attacks at present start a little behind the player. For example, a beaming arcanist whose backside is touching a mob will be hitting that mob with beam despite not facing them.

Where such mechanics do exist, it's using a combination of server positioning and the reticle targetting, and it still sometimes fails. Block can have no room for failure, as the noteable block bugs over the years has shown.