Why Not Just Delete Subclassing

ItsNotLiving · May 24

It’s been a year, more and more players are just quitting the game. Every joke of ZoS just doubling down has been said. It’s not fun, it’s not immersive, it’s not what a majority of of players like, I just don’t understand why not walk it back. Same as hybridization.

Tallon_IV · May 24

How does something optional make people quit? I don't like subclassing either, so I just don't use it?

Trier_Sero · May 24

Yes, it would be the best for the game.

Wup_sa · May 24

Tbh the game would need to be reverted at least back to 2016-2019 era to make even decent. But as for subtrashing, they can't remove it since it would also cause a massive quitting wave and since half of the playerbase quit when subclassing came, the game would no longer have enough players to support it, so ms would probably pull the plug.

Nemesis7884 · May 24

Cause a lot of people enjoy the flavor it offers in terms of flexibility and role play?

Gabriel_H · May 24

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

It’s been a year, more and more players are just quitting the game.

Steams stats are more or less where they were a year ago. A full year would be needed to account for the change in releasing of new content, but there is no public indication players are leaving en-masse.

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

Every joke of ZoS just doubling down has been said. It’s not fun, it’s not immersive, it’s not what a majority of of players like

It's fun for a lot of people that I play with, immersion is in the mind of the beholder. Context: I do not sub-class.

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

I just don’t understand why not walk it back. Same as hybridization.

Because there is no reason to. The imbalance between sub-classing and pure-class is being addressed. This will (hopefully) give the players the ability to choose what suits them best, without comprimising (expected by players) group integrity.

FurryCandyHearts · May 24

Tallon_IV wrote: »

How does something optional make people quit? I don't like subclassing either, so I just don't use it?

exactly. i dont like the night market. i told them i dont like it and all they whys and howfors and then i choose not to play it but instead play something else. same fore with scrying and tales of tribute and oh so many other things that i dont like that they added. I just accept they add things that have no value to me and move on doing what i like.

SolarRune · May 24

Seen more people leaving because of battlepass than left because of subclassing

Toanis · May 24

What does subclassing have to do with immersion? And how can it break immersion?

What about Necromancer says they would never make use of Dark Magic?
Wouldn't it be pretty immersive for an Arcanist who looks like a lich to be able to drain eldritch energy out of corpses?
Does "Sorcerer" really imply lightning magic only, no fire or ice allowed?

This is not what we're talking about? But there is no room for immersion in competitive game modes where others depend on your performance. It's about being "forced" to play something you don't want to, and "I don't have an Arcanist" no longer being an excuse, right? That's a whole different discussion, but in the end, removing subclassing for everyone, so your toxic raid leader can no longer force you to do it, seems a bit extreme.

ESO_Nightingale · May 24

Why dont we delete your account?

No? You dont like that idea? Jeez i wonder why.

fizzylu · May 24

I left the game around the time subclassing was released (not because of that either), and after returning I've been enjoying it. My Khajiit sorcerer now feels like the spellcaster he was meant to be, no longer restricted to just purple and lightning magic. Now if only they would release a full-on class change token or just let us pick any skill line without restricting us to one of our original class.

Trier_Sero · May 24

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Why dont we delete your account?

No? You dont like that idea? Jeez i wonder why.

Cause it won't be beneficial for the game obviously. Deleting subclassing on the other hand will.

SilverIce58 · May 24

I actually really enjoy subclassing. All of my characters have had at least one of their skill lines taken out and replaced by something wayyy more fitting to their character. Do I expect to be meta-viable? No. But am I having fun switching up their gameplay a bit? Yes, I sure am.

LunaFlora · May 24

i love Subclassing.
i have made various builds i only dreamt of in the past.

if you dislike Subclassing, do not use it.

Tyrobag · May 24

Why not just delete pureclassing? Its been a few months since they announced class mastery, more and more players are just quitting the game. Every joke of ZoS just doubling down has been said. It’s not fun, it’s not immersive, it’s not what a majority of of players like, I just don’t understand why not walk it back. Same as Elder Staves Online.

- See, I can make broad statements that project my opinions on others too!

olsborg · May 24

Delete subclassing pls, yes.

Silaf · May 24

I wish but sadly ZOS sold it as a feature of a DLC so outright removing it would mean taking away something the players payd for.
What they can do is nerf it to irrelevance by making pureclasses really strong.

I really dislike subclassing too but i feat this is the only way.

Maitsukas · May 24

And what would be the appropriate compensation for players that have leveled all Subclassed Skill Lines to 50 and unlocked all related Achievements?

Silaf · May 24

Tallon_IV wrote: »

How does something optional make people quit? I don't like subclassing either, so I just don't use it?

You are forced to use it in trial groups. And you are forced to use the same setup as a dps. Are you a new player?

Apollosipod · May 24

This horse has been so thoroughly beaten that it's a fine paste at this point. Subclassing got added. Now some people like it and some people don't. So what is ZOS going to do? Delete it and alienate the players who do like it in favor of the people who don't? Or keep it and make the people who like it happy while alienating the people who don't?

What are these posts even trying to accomplish? It's in the game now and it isn't going anywhere. You guys need to move on. There are MUCH bigger fish the fry in this game.

LunaFlora · May 24

Silaf wrote: »

I wish but sadly ZOS sold it as a feature of a DLC so outright removing it would mean taking away something the players payd for.
What they can do is nerf it to irrelevance by making pureclasses really strong.

I really dislike subclassing too but i feat this is the only way.

Subclassing has always been free.

We all use the same skill lines regardless of whether or not we use Subclassing.
i hope Class Mastery helps you in update 50, it is something extra if you do not Subclass.

LootAllTheStuff · May 24

I resisted subclassing for a long time, but recently used it to switch up my main NB, and I'm really enjoying the difference.

My take is simply this: IF subclassing were to ever be considered for removal, the whole game from somewhere just past Wrothgar up to Solstice would have to be massively rebalanced in terms of difficulty, even for group content.

I was initially waiting to see what class mastery would do, and at first it sounded like it would be better than subclassing; but more recent posts I've seen from those on the PTS server suggest that ZOS have walked it back and it may actually be underpowered now. I don't know if that's actually true, or what the final balance point will be on release of U50, but it seems very unlikely to me that ZOS wants class mastery to be a "subclassing killer".

In reality, subclassing is here to stay at this point, so calling for it to be removed is moot; it's probably more important to focus on whether class mastery makes it possible to balance pure class with subclass in terms of content viability.

Nemesis7884 · May 24

Subclassing gives more option amd got us class masteries...i really like the current flexibility....

Now we just need more character slots

AcadianPaladin · May 24

I like subclassing. I like hybridization.

Vonnegut2506 · May 24

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

It’s been a year, more and more players are just quitting the game. Every joke of ZoS just doubling down has been said. It’s not fun, it’s not immersive, it’s not what a majority of of players like, I just don’t understand why not walk it back. Same as hybridization.

Where is your data to back up the assertion that a majority of players do not like subclassing? I would hate to think you were just claiming something just to try and strengthen an already weak argument.

Four_Fingers · May 24

Silaf wrote: »

Tallon_IV wrote: »

How does something optional make people quit? I don't like subclassing either, so I just don't use it?

You are forced to use it in trial groups. And you are forced to use the same setup as a dps. Are you a new player?

That is a player behavior created problem not subclassing.
If not subclassing it would be something else required.
I am not a sheep, so I do what I want even if I have to start my own group.

Cooperharley · May 24

I don’t think deleting subclassing is the right answer.

I understand why some players dislike it, especially in organized trial groups where “optional” systems can start feeling mandatory. If a raid lead expects everyone to run the same subclassed setup, then yes, that can feel bad. But that is mostly a balance and community-meta problem, not a reason to remove the entire system from everyone.

A lot of players clearly enjoy subclassing for roleplay, character identity, and build variety. It lets characters feel more like custom Elder Scrolls characters instead of being locked into three fixed class lines forever. Removing it now would punish people who built around it, leveled those skill lines, unlocked achievements, and genuinely like the added flexibility.

The better solution is not deleting subclassing. The better solution is making single-class builds strong and interesting enough that subclassing is a choice instead of an expectation. Class Mastery should be meaningful. Original class kits should have clear identities and competitive value. If certain subclass combinations are overperforming, those specific combinations should be adjusted.

Also, claiming “the majority” hates subclassing needs actual data. The thread itself shows plenty of people who like it. Some people dislike it, some people love it, and some people just ignore it.

So my opinion is: keep subclassing, but balance it better. Make single-class builds worth playing. Don’t make subclassing mandatory for endgame groups, but don’t take away a system that many players are using to make characters they enjoy.

cmetzger93 · May 24

Subclassing is the only reason I'm still here so I cancel you out, enjoy

Aydh · May 24

Subclassing is super fun. Allows for interesting combinations. If you personally don't like it, simple - do not use it. Nothing forces you to use it. You can make a choice to be "meta" or not. Don't pick "be meta" and then complain about being forced to do it.

Most of the ppl I run with in ESO are using subclassing in some way or another. Scribing too. Great additions to the game in terms of flexibility and flavor.

Y'all need to relax and enjoy the game. If you don't like a part of it, don't do it. There is plenty of other content.

spartaxoxo · May 24

People aren't really "looking for ways to be offended," when they hear a word choice and feel something. It's also actually really easy to swap out a word for a different one without losing important meaning in most cases. When we pick a word then we're also picking all the different meanings of the word. Because any of them are a reasonable interpretation by the listener.

It's not on listeners to pretend those other meanings don't exist because it's easier for us. That's not any more real than treating this a serious issue. People can't choose the life they have lived with certain words. They didn't pick the historical usage. They don't pick the dictionary definition, which is based on widespread usage. They can't control their knee jerk response to how it made them feel, they can only control their reaction to it afterwards. And opening a discussion on a forum to be like "This makes me feel a certain way," is not an unfair or unreasonable reaction.

If it bothers you that some people find the word annoying, then just don't use it. If it doesn't bother you, then keep using it. But let's not pretend that we can't possibly understand why "pure," is a loaded term.

I know that it can be viewed as a term that makes it seem like subclassing isn't as good. I just don't care. It doesn't actually hurt anyone and most people using it mean no harm. 🤷🏽‍♀️ I also don't care if it the whole community decides it's an annoying term and starts using something else (baseclassing? mono classing? single classing? soul classing (a play on sole [actually I quite like this last one too]). I'll use any of that too.

I'm cool with using the term pureclassing. But, let's at least own that pure does have multiple meanings in the dictionary. That's just a fact.

Tallon_IV · May 24

Silaf wrote: »

Tallon_IV wrote: »

How does something optional make people quit? I don't like subclassing either, so I just don't use it?

You are forced to use it in trial groups. And you are forced to use the same setup as a dps. Are you a new player?

Cut the snark and find a new group then, because I've never been forced to use it in a vet trial.