how difficult are brazen and argent bosses for tanks?

Resresi_Willowwind · May 18

hi all, i just asked chat gpt how difficult night market bosses are for tanks compared to those in normal group dungeons. he said: (much) easier. is that true?

going in as heal or DD i feel bosses can hit quite hard... what do you say, ESO tanks?

loaganb16_ESO · May 18

No issues with either on regular dungeon gear. They are maybe like a 4x vet boss.

frogthroat · May 18

The hardest part is to try to keep the taunt when there's some random tank jumping in, stealing your taunt.

Other than that, they are all pretty easy. If you have done all DLC dungeons on veteran (not hard mode), you'll do fine. They are mostly just a tad easier versions of vet DLC dungeon bosses.

Skitter roaming boss (Roksa) has a lot of AOEs you should get out of. If you stand in them with the beam, they hurt. But the beam alone, you don't even need to block.

What else could be hard... remember to block when flesh abo does the big AOE. If you've done vet Scrivener, Ozezan is easy peasy. Try to taunt the air atros at the ash titan.

Resresi_Willowwind · May 18

thank you both!

that means, that they are more difficult than what chat gpt said...

i was thinking of trying to go in as a tank, because groups often are without. after what you said, i'd have to practice a bit first to find out, whether i can manage with my old DK tank.

frogthroat · May 18

Resresi_Willowwind wrote: »

thank you both!

that means, that they are more difficult than what chat gpt said...

i was thinking of trying to go in as a tank, because groups often are without. after what you said, i'd have to practice a bit first to find out, whether i can manage with my old DK tank.

No no, make a tank build and go practice in NM. That is a great place to practice because it's low stakes. It will be a bit chaotic, but it's fun. You won't be needing any ultra mega Hyperioxes super optimised build. You can still check his website since he has gear setups for pretty much any level. Crafted only, no trial gear, trial gear, extra tanky, etc. So you can even craft yourself some gear and go practice.

If you have done all DLC dungeons at least on normal, you know somewhat what all the bosses are going to be doing. If you have done them on vet, you can tank any boss without problems.

CatalinaWineMixer2 · May 18

I dont mind tanking over there. Its probably more fun to play as dps or healer. There were a couple times where it was frustrating because the group finder wouldn't let me change the role requirements. It can be all solo tanked but I dont consider it very pleasant having done so. When you should have 2 healers and 2 tanks and youve only got 1 tank, it does a number on your hands.

Soarora · May 18

A word of advice: put a marker over the “person” bosses. They’re only a little taller than the “trash” enemies around them and so it can be easy to lose them in the crowd.

AvalonRanger · May 18

how difficult are brazen and argent bosses for tanks? Bookmark

If you have skillful healer, then very easy. Otherwise, it'll be hell.

SeveN085 · May 18

As usual, it depends on DD's, it's either a breeze or a slog. If your group has good damage and melts trash mobs then it's easy. If you've got DD's with roleplaying level of damage make sure to pull and clear trash packs around bosses first. Otherwise having boss and 4 trash packs all battering on you for few minutes can be hard on resources as you can imagine.

Onomos · May 18

I'm a casual tank and I haven't really done much tanking in the past year. The few times I've gone into NM with my tank have been mostly fine. Keeping aggro on the bosses isn't too challenging. It's hoping the DDs clean up and the trash and know the boss mechs.

tsaescishoeshiner · May 18

How would an AI know? Think about what data it could possibly have to understand boss difficulty in a specific video game. It's not a magic oracle, it's requires data that it has access to, and it can't play or understand this game, let alone simulate the code to answer such a suggestive question. It will never tell you "I don't know" and try to convince you it does know. Asking AI impossible questions is a waste of water and land, and the time of the people who have to correct it.

I've tanked all the Night Market Brazen and Argents. They're similar to a normal dungeon boss and easier than a normal DLC dungeon boss—except they take more players to kill. Compared to a dungeon, they have far fewer mechanics overall, and mostly have AoE and heavy attacks (not like synergies you need activate or subtasks that you need to do).

It can be hard when you're tanking a Skirmish boss and the roaming Calamitous boss also pops by. If you have enough resource recovery and a good emergency ult, it's very doable and there's often more than one tank anyway.

Gabriel_H · May 18

Resresi_Willowwind wrote: »

hi all, i just asked chat gpt how difficult night market bosses are for tanks compared to those in normal group dungeons. he said: (much) easier. is that true?

going in as heal or DD i feel bosses can hit quite hard... what do you say, ESO tanks?

Brazen are comparable to the end boss of Base Game Veteran Dungeon
Argent are comparable to the Group Event in a DLC Public Dungeon
Calamitous are comparable to an Overland DLC World Boss
Skirmish are comparable to the end boss in a DLC Veteran Dungeon

That's with a group of 4, consisting of a tank, healer and 2 DDs. For a group of 12, none are difficult if at least 50% of the mechs are done.

Edit: For completeness, the "dungeon" and "trial" bosses are weaker than an Argent. It's the mechs that need doing correctly, especially in the trial to get a clear.

Gabriel_H · May 18

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

How would an AI know? Think about what data it could possibly have to understand boss difficulty in a specific video game..

It scrapes forums such as this and reddit. So if there is a post giving a clear answer like mine above, it will use that as its basis for responding.

Now, that post is my opinion (I happen to think it is right from my experience), but AI has no idea how experienced I am, or what frame of reference I am using, but it will latch on to it as gospel truth. This is why AI is a bad source of information, whether it is old or new information.

katanagirl1 · May 19

I would encourage you to jump in and be there in the group regardless of how confident you feel. As a squishy dps trial build, I appreciate a real tank taking the aggro instead of me, regardless of how experienced they are. A group of all dps just drags the boss everywhere and it’s hard to do damage.

Sluggy · May 19

Honestly, even as a DD I don't find them particularly hard to hold their aggro and survive. Tanks are a bit superfluous for most groups but if you are with a lot of newer players then it can certainly not hurt to have one. The only tricky parts as were mentioned were that they do have mechs that sometime require group effort.

Hapexamendios · May 19

Most groups I've been in haven't had any issues with the brazens or argents tanking wise. It's usually other things like mechanics or a walking boss/faceted enemy entering the area that cause problems.

Ordinator199 · May 19

faceted bosses being pulled on top of bosses by people arriving late/reviving at shrine is the new hardmode it seems

Taarente · May 19

Having tanked all of the Brazen/Argent bosses, plus the Night Market dungeons and trial, I’d actually say all of the bosses in the Night Market are not that difficult to tank. In fact the dungeons and trial bosses you might find a pleasant surprise to be rid of so much of the chaos from the Brazen/Argent bosses.

The main difference is the environment.

Most of the real difficulty comes from:

* constant trash pressure,
* overlapping AOEs,
* roaming bosses joining fights,
* respawns,
* and public-group chaos with players arriving, reviving, or pulling additional enemies in.

The actual boss mechanics are generally readable and manageable if you stay calm and maintain resources.

I also found sustain and recovery mattered far more than simply stacking mitigation. Having a reliable emergency ultimate and good resource sustain made a huge difference.

One thing I did notice repeatedly is that Brazen/Argent bosses can sometimes decide they are done with you and go wandering off after other players anyway, even when taunted, especially in crowded fights. So part of tanking them is honestly just damage control and keeping the fight stable when the encounter becomes messy.

For me, the hardest moments in Night Market were rarely the bosses themselves. It was things like a Calamitous boss wandering into a Skirmish fight while half the group was reviving at the shrine. 🙂
The Exarch Molonach is very buggy during the darkness phase, often the light pool wont spawn. Most groups need to leave or die and respawn to get that fight done. Most of the time, the real challenge is simply getting through all the trash packs to reach the actual boss areas.

Heronisan · May 19

Can tank them easily without a healer if ur a seasoned tank. There's even solo builds taking bosses down

frogthroat · May 19

Heronisan wrote: »

Can tank them easily without a healer if ur a seasoned tank. There's even solo builds taking bosses down

Not only solo builds, but you can make builds that work in NM specifically. 60k+ dps on a boss fight without many ads, 100k+ easily if there are many ads. Still providing buffs and debuffs like a normal tank. It has been fun to theorycraft and then test out builds. What I used in this screenshot wouldn't work in IA or vet trials, but it's a beast in NM.

BXR_Lonestar · May 19

Resresi_Willowwind wrote: »

hi all, i just asked chat gpt how difficult night market bosses are for tanks compared to those in normal group dungeons. he said: (much) easier. is that true?

going in as heal or DD i feel bosses can hit quite hard... what do you say, ESO tanks?

I tank them on my Plar tank that I haven't updated in 2 years. Just grab some buff tank sets and voidbash and pull in all the trashmobs you can and let them die in cleave. Its not difficult.

Taarente · May 19

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Resresi_Willowwind wrote: »

hi all, i just asked chat gpt how difficult night market bosses are for tanks compared to those in normal group dungeons. he said: (much) easier. is that true?

going in as heal or DD i feel bosses can hit quite hard... what do you say, ESO tanks?

I tank them on my Plar tank that I haven't updated in 2 years. Just grab some buff tank sets and voidbash and pull in all the trashmobs you can and let them die in cleave. Its not difficult.

The most useful tank sets haven't changed in the last 2-3 years and probably longer. Also quite a few of the minibosses and heavier hitting adds can be taunted but not pulled, so voidbash is not that helpful.

o_Primate_o · May 19

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Resresi_Willowwind wrote: »

hi all, i just asked chat gpt how difficult night market bosses are for tanks compared to those in normal group dungeons. he said: (much) easier. is that true?

going in as heal or DD i feel bosses can hit quite hard... what do you say, ESO tanks?

I tank them on my Plar tank that I haven't updated in 2 years. Just grab some buff tank sets and voidbash and pull in all the trashmobs you can and let them die in cleave. Its not difficult.

you can free up your arena gear set if you scribe soulburst as aoe pull and put it where your S&B bash is.

Taarente · May 20

o_Primate_o wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Resresi_Willowwind wrote: »

hi all, i just asked chat gpt how difficult night market bosses are for tanks compared to those in normal group dungeons. he said: (much) easier. is that true?

going in as heal or DD i feel bosses can hit quite hard... what do you say, ESO tanks?

I tank them on my Plar tank that I haven't updated in 2 years. Just grab some buff tank sets and voidbash and pull in all the trashmobs you can and let them die in cleave. Its not difficult.

you can free up your arena gear set if you scribe soulburst as aoe pull and put it where your S&B bash is.

Scribed skills like that range up to 8 metres, Void Bash and Rush of Agony range up to 12 metres, Chains of dominance ranges up to 22 metres.. In 8 metres you have already aggro'd anything around you.

BXR_Lonestar · May 20

Taarente wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Resresi_Willowwind wrote: »

hi all, i just asked chat gpt how difficult night market bosses are for tanks compared to those in normal group dungeons. he said: (much) easier. is that true?

going in as heal or DD i feel bosses can hit quite hard... what do you say, ESO tanks?

I tank them on my Plar tank that I haven't updated in 2 years. Just grab some buff tank sets and voidbash and pull in all the trashmobs you can and let them die in cleave. Its not difficult.

The most useful tank sets haven't changed in the last 2-3 years and probably longer. Also quite a few of the minibosses and heavier hitting adds can be taunted but not pulled, so voidbash is not that helpful.

Since I've been too lazy to subclass my plar tank and since I haven't made room for a ST leash for him via scribing, its the next best thing. Anything that doesn't pull, I typically just walk over and poke, or the DPS have deleted them anyways.

Resresi_Willowwind · May 22

thank you all for your insightful information! very helpful!

ps: the AI is just faster than me in scraping the web... but agree, it lacks judgement and sometimes makes things up. as i doubted it's answer i asked you, real tanks, and you gave me much more information than the AI ever could! thank you!

Estin · May 22

The NM is pretty easy to tank, but it also depends on the group. The biggest issue is the sheer volume of adds that drain your stamina or stun you which leaves you open to eating a bosses heavy attack or channel. If your group clears all the adds, the bosses on their own are completely fine, just block their attacks, keep taunt, and hold them still. The real trouble comes when someone pulls the boss with all 3 trash packs, or if you're fighting a boss and a calamitous shows up.

AvalonRanger · 2:05AM

AvalonRanger wrote: »

how difficult are brazen and argent bosses for tanks? Bookmark

If you have skillful healer, then very easy. Otherwise, it'll be hell.

90% Healer I met in random group dungeon are almost fake so far.

Vulkunne · 9:11AM

In my opinion (this is coming from a Tank who has done 4 man content for many years, a few Trials as well, and so forth) the Night Market bosses are tougher than you think.

There is a sharp contrast between some of these Night Market bosses and like the other ones you'd encounter from Normal or sometimes even Veteran dungeon runs. This is a good thing, as it provides a unique challenge for the few tanks we have out there to hone their builds and get some exposure to a more engaging venue.

Tanking Night Market, as well as perhaps 1 or 2 achievements has revealed new techniques as well as having validated my vision regarding advanced tanking concepts, which would normally be largely wasted outside of Night Market or harder hm content.

Be prepared for a challenge, be prepared to make some mistakes but most of all have an open mind and be able to adapt and understand that in this instance subclassing is your best friend.

Silaf · 9:24AM

Quite easy except the silver worm if your dps are not doing their job.

LootAllTheStuff · 2:20PM

Not a tank, but I've been running through NM with some good ones.

The thing I've noticed is that experienced tanks work around the perimeter pealing off the mobs surrounding the boss one by one, so that the DDs can annihilate them more easily before the boss gets aggroed.

Inexperienced tanks rush in and aggro everything at the same time, resulting in absolute chaos where it can be hard to see anything at all through all the visual effects clutter, and it's a lot easier to end up in the wrong place at the wrong time. There is much more respawning to wayshrine at that point, since no-one is left alone long enough to res another player.

So yes, the best tactic seems to be to tank smart, not hard!

Much appreciation to all the really solid tanks out there who are prepared to speed things up by taking more time initially.