OsUfi wrote: »

I like two team, I like three team, I like 4v4, 8v8, and 4v4v4. But when it comes to Relic, 4v4v4 is so much more dynamic than 8v8

Agreed on that part, if the teams are balanced/fully filled. And I've been nostalgic about the design of the old maps, though I haven't seen the stormlords tower yet (and presumably new players have been enjoying the "new update").

3 side permanent deathmatch queue please

Nope.

3-way Capture the Relic is probably the most imbalanced and boring thing to ever exist and I don't know which is worse: low rolling into the worst team and having to play the entire BG alone getting chased after by a semi-ballgroup with a grudge against you while your team is having a picnic at your flag or high rolling into a dominant team and losing to people with 0-20 KDR simply because you decided to fight the other team.

Or just instantly deleting everyone in opponent teams with zero challenge until they quit the BG and you're just waiting for the timer to run out because no one wants to pick up the Relic.



No idea what people see in this game mode and format in particular.

The achievement for getting 100 relics was something I missed to complete when two-sided battlegrounds arrived.

At that time I had 70 relics. I played lots of 8 players two-sided battlegrounds, hours and hours of playtime. Not even that much fun. And only 6 more relics.

First day 4v4v4 relic battlegrounds, build an optimized subclass runner build and some challenging hours later with lots of fun I got the missing 24 relics.

4v4v4 battlegrounds are much more fun, regardless of game mode, than two-sided battlegrounds.

So, thanks for the event! 😀

GeneralGrundmann wrote: »

The achievement for getting 100 relics was something I missed to complete when two-sided battlegrounds arrived.

Tactican Achievement enters the chat ...

Decimus wrote: »

Nope.

3-way Capture the Relic is probably the most imbalanced and boring thing to ever exist and I don't know which is worse: low rolling into the worst team and having to play the entire BG alone getting chased after by a semi-ballgroup with a grudge against you while your team is having a picnic at your flag or high rolling into a dominant team and losing to people with 0-20 KDR simply because you decided to fight the other team.

Or just instantly deleting everyone in opponent teams with zero challenge until they quit the BG and you're just waiting for the timer to run out because no one wants to pick up the Relic.



No idea what people see in this game mode and format in particular.

lol I've been doing them all weekend and haven't had one like that yet, stop posting your outliers to boost your point.
Its pretty clear that you capped 4 relics then went about DMing the teams to the point people left.

Demonwolff wrote: »

lol I've been doing them all weekend and haven't had one like that yet, stop posting your outliers to boost your point.
Its pretty clear that you capped 4 relics then went about DMing the teams to the point people left.

I don't mean to be negative but we have very limited numbers of top players like that. Whenever someone like that drops into a game or one team gets two instead of one of such person, the balance is usually thrown off completely, wherever they are.

The problem is of course less in 8vs8 due to more members per team, but 4vs4vs4 allows some gameplay even in unbalanced state - you can see even in his game other two teams had scores and kills, not just death counts.

@Demonwolff wrote:

@moo_2021 wrote:

Demonwolff wrote: »

lol I've been doing them all weekend and haven't had one like that yet, stop posting your outliers to boost your point.
Its pretty clear that you capped 4 relics then went about DMing the teams to the point people left.

I don't mean to be negative but we have very limited numbers of top players like that. Whenever someone like that drops into a game or one team gets two instead of one of such person, the balance is usually thrown off completely, wherever they are.

The problem is of course less in 8vs8 due to more members per team, but 4vs4vs4 allows some gameplay even in unbalanced state - you can see even in his game other two teams had scores and kills, not just death counts.

The issue is they only post those visuals (not the ones they aren't on top) add to that they are complaining about 3 sided bgs but have no shortage of screens to prove how bad they are tells me they are either afraid to enter a competitive match because they have to fight stronger players OR they are simply trying to push an agenda that makes them seem stronger.

I would guess that there are plenty of screens out there where those numbers look very different.

Please make sure to spread the truth about two-sided Battlegrounds.

Back in 3 teams I too complained about it being uncompetitive - game was messy and the third team often got in the way of gameplay.

But there were many players - mediocre and PvE players included, players who disappeared after switching to 2 teams. It was fun most of time when you stop caring so much about winning, duels, competition or K/D or people complaining about skills or lack of. The single most important reason was that one sided spawn camping was very rare and as a result fewer people would feel hopeless and have no choice but to give up.

OsUfi wrote: »

I think, as a casual mid-tier player, I miss the fight for second place to get the daily. There was a reason to stick in if you weren't the dominant team.

Three teams also felt a little unique compared to all of the two team PvP game modes on the Internets. It was its own thing.

All that said, as Decimus says, this could be solved by a proper MMR system.

Part of the problem is that too many players only do BG`s as an extra "daily random normal" to get some bonus experience boost, and not really to actually PvP. Having people in full PvE gear show up to BG´s expecting to get carried by people in proper PvP builds just makes for an awful experience for more seasoned PvP:ers. Personally think they should remove the daily experience bonus for BG`s and replace it with something else (maybe bonus AP if you win a game). Yes a proper MMR system (that´s visible as well) would solve a lot of problems, but we need to get rid of people who only do BG´s for "non-PvP reasons". If you go into a PvP zone it should be because you actually want to PvP, and not just leech of other people for some daily reward.

Edit: The reason a lot of people (at least myself and the PvP community I interact with) liked the 3 team BG´s to an extent, was because back in the day it was made up by actual PvP players, and not just PvP tourists who had zero interest in PvP. Yes, 3 team BG´s has it´s issues for objective modes (which 2 team BG´s actually kinda solves), but one of the biggest issues today is that the majority of the BG population (at least on PCEU) isn´t in it for the PvP. You can fix whatever MMR system or mode design as much as you like, but if the playerbase isn´t there to PvP the experience will be garbage regardless.

Major_Mangle wrote: »

Having people in full PvE gear show up to BG´s expecting to get carried by people in proper PvP builds just makes for an awful experience for more seasoned PvP:ers

It's unfair to call them getting carried, when they also make up the majority of others' kills and very often the objective scores, because a large part of PvPers only care about DMs and they barely even try to fight those of their own level.

Separating objective queue and DM queue would be the best.

Major_Mangle wrote: »

But queuing for a BG with no intention to PvP is borderline griefing and doesn´t make for a better PvP experience for anyone.

The reason could be that the minimum requirement is too high and the gameplay and builds are too different from PvE now. Remember people used to recommend arenas for basic PvP training? Jabs, PvE healers, werewolves and ground AoE, .. All gone.

I started before I could clear nVH. Back then anyone could have fun in a solo build with some points moved to health and tri stat food. These days a player like that wouldn't last 3 seconds no matter how skilled he is.

Decimus wrote: »

Nope.

3-way Capture the Relic is probably the most imbalanced and boring thing to ever exist and I don't know which is worse: low rolling into the worst team and having to play the entire BG alone getting chased after by a semi-ballgroup with a grudge against you while your team is having a picnic at your flag or high rolling into a dominant team and losing to people with 0-20 KDR simply because you decided to fight the other team.

Or just instantly deleting everyone in opponent teams with zero challenge until they quit the BG and you're just waiting for the timer to run out because no one wants to pick up the Relic.



No idea what people see in this game mode and format in particular.

what are those numbers in the leaderboard you have? What add-on?

baratron wrote: »

OsUfi wrote: »

I think, as a casual mid-tier player, I miss the fight for second place to get the daily. There was a reason to stick in if you weren't the dominant team.

Three teams also felt a little unique compared to all of the two team PvP game modes on the Internets. It was its own thing.

All that said, as Decimus says, this could be solved by a proper MMR system.

This. I am utterly mediocre at PvP. I think and react too slowly to the unpredictability of real humans. I can be in three PvP sets with Impenetrable trait, and I still get the most deaths per Battleground.

But I used to enjoy the objective Battlegrounds with groups of friends from my Guilds because there WAS always the option to come second. We didn't win that often, maybe 1/3 of the time, but we came second almost all the rest of the time. And this felt rewarding.

I know it's hard for people who are good at the game to imagine, but coming second feels good. Just like how, for lower tier PvE players, completing a Veteran Dungeon non-Hard Mode feels good.

Now we have the choice of:
* 4v4 Battlegrounds where you can enter with a premade team, but run out of lives and have to just watch the rest of the match.
OR
* 8v8 Battlegrounds where you can't have a premade team of friends/guildies, with tactics in voice chat. You're forced to run with random people you don't know and can't coordinate your actions in voice.

Losing 100% of the time is depressingly awful and I can't bear to go into Battlegrounds now.

I feel for both of you, I learned to PVP in BGS because its the ESSENCE of PVP close quarters forced fights. I Had the PRIVILEGE of being trained by @Grimsforge and @Icyfire with input from @Nefas and many of the other OG PVP players. and I'm still only a moderate to low high PVP player for many reason some health related and some because I refuse to Meta Build.

PVP has gone from skill to who can proc best, or game the system best, this has to stop. I know we have a no names policy but honestly I'm old school and if you cant take constructive criticism and hide behind your poor me complex after being told your behaviour is unacceptable refusing to change. Then your name should be public, People should know your gaming the system because ZoS isn't dealing with the issues, due tot he fact you have gotten to good at walking the line.