Night market: For the love of all group content please hear me out?

Pcgamer · May 17

I have been playing eso since 2014, zos can chechk my accounts. I have 2 of my own and my partner who has returned to eso has 1 account. I have supported this game through endless changes yes cos i love it.
I have played all facets of eso pve, pvp, solo content, housing, group content and so forth. I have given my heart and soul to do my best in night market but sadly i started later on by a couple of weeks. I went in with my partner and he freaked out with the damage from just the trash mobs so we left. Me being me did not want to quit so i tried again via lfg and also by playing a stealth build on the side to get some dailies done and to explore the land layout in a relaxed way and not rushing through.
I worked hard to get all my relics and keys and finally did my dungeons and tried out the trial. Woa, i pugged it afcourse and we wiped after wipe after wipe. I was learning but cos the trall has been on going for a while and players gave beat it on pts, some know what to do but not everyone and im here to bring this to light.The night market appeals most to hardcore players above all...WAIT ...zos want all level players to participare and enjoy it BUT i see casual players struggling so much especially at this time when certain players are just ending their nm time mopping up their last achieves in the trial and i understand they dont want to spend hrs dying to training noobs.
The mechanics in nm trial require team work yes but it only works with well organised groups not pugs so how is it that moving forwards this is going to encourage most players to move forward and succeed .There is no room for a weak link and no time to allow that weak link to learn mechanics without failing miserably. I watched wipe after wipe after wipe even with patient people and good morale and humour. The trial is timed and it hinders new ppl learning. Noone want to finish a trial by the skin of their teeth or just cos they got carried. Most if us want to feel lime we achieved by our own merits
Most ppl on these forums do NOT represent casual platers that are not even aware how to join these forums.

What we have is the elite players and streamers and you are who @ZOS_Kevin listen to and yet so many players that are genuinely struggling dont get a listen in. Im not a casual player cos i play for hrs everyday and have for years.

Thoriorz · May 17

I tried the trial three times, and each attempt ended up taking about 2–3 hours wipe fest, so, no thanks, I’ll pass—let the person who came up with this trial mechanics play it themselves.

Blood_again · May 17

Pcgamer wrote: »

The night market appeals most to hardcore players above all...WAIT ...zos want all level players to participare and enjoy it BUT i see casual players struggling so much especially at this time when certain players are just ending their nm time mopping up their last achieves in the trial and i understand they dont want to spend hrs dying to training noobs.

While you have your own understanding of what players want, you may also listen to them when they tell you what they want

It is not uniform.

I have all the achievements from Opulent Ordeal. Yesterday I spent 4 hrs with GF group in this trial and then ran the whole night with NM random overland groups. I wasn't the only vet who did it. You know, people with addons can see each other in a group.

We didn't succeed in the trial. However, I enjoyed seeing players do better and better with each pull. It is really nice when the purple team train their consistency with a lantern, when the red one stop jumping in random directions, when players really start acting as a team.
Just to remind you, it was not a well-organized team from the start, but they progressed towards it for just 2-3h. It is really amazing!
I will run this trial the following week not once, not twice.

Also, you could remember those players who say, "Maybe I don't do big numbers, but I know/do all the mechanics, and it is more important".
Surprise-surprise, the Opulent Ordeal trial is for them, not for hardcore players who do big numbers. It is a normal difficulty trial by incoming damage, damage checks, and bosses hp. It has less dps requirements than those 4-players dungeons in NM, if you ask me. However, the trial has a big amount of unskippable mechanics to do close to the fair hard mode.
It is the time to shine for those players who hate dps sharing addons. Because high dps won't save you here, won't even help to skip mechanics. You can't outdps the pulling spider or the color sphere you have to bring.

So I see that this time devs have listened to different groups of players, not to 150k+ pullers only.
A trial is supposed to be a teamwork challenge, not just a time to flood buttons with sweat. The Opulent Ordeal is. It really is.

BTW if you suffer from wiping many times and feel it is wrong, I can assure you that it is how the learning works. It is OK to wipe. The hardcore players can do it all the time in their statics too. Yes, for hours. Not a joke.

Reverb · May 17

I’ve cleared the opulent trial 6 times now. All with pugs, none on voicecomm. I don’t say this to brag but to say that the vast majority of groups are beating it at this point. There are plenty of experienced players to explain things, and inexperienced people just need to listen and commit to learning and improving.

Renato90085 · May 17

nah,it too easy for us(hard core player),the health and dmg low like normal and some vet
but >trial have 2 type,mech or parse
the mech trial like vDSR twin or vLC mirror,in there dps not important, but you must done mech
the parse trial like vSS or vKA,nobody care mech,and most group is try high dps and skip mech
night market trial is a mech trial too,
and mech trial alway is pug killer
In my opinion, it's more like a game designed for middle players(not ready or exp do vet or hardmode ,but can easy skip normal mech)..

OccultNerd · May 17

Pcgamer wrote: »

I have been playing eso since 2014, zos can chechk my accounts. I have 2 of my own and my partner who has returned to eso has 1 account. I have supported this game through endless changes yes cos i love it.
I have played all facets of eso pve, pvp, solo content, housing, group content and so forth. I have given my heart and soul to do my best in night market but sadly i started later on by a couple of weeks. I went in with my partner and he freaked out with the damage from just the trash mobs so we left. Me being me did not want to quit so i tried again via lfg and also by playing a stealth build on the side to get some dailies done and to explore the land layout in a relaxed way and not rushing through.
I worked hard to get all my relics and keys and finally did my dungeons and tried out the trial. Woa, i pugged it afcourse and we wiped after wipe after wipe. I was learning but cos the trall has been on going for a while and players gave beat it on pts, some know what to do but not everyone and im here to bring this to light.The night market appeals most to hardcore players above all...WAIT ...zos want all level players to participare and enjoy it BUT i see casual players struggling so much especially at this time when certain players are just ending their nm time mopping up their last achieves in the trial and i understand they dont want to spend hrs dying to training noobs.
The mechanics in nm trial require team work yes but it only works with well organised groups not pugs so how is it that moving forwards this is going to encourage most players to move forward and succeed .There is no room for a weak link and no time to allow that weak link to learn mechanics without failing miserably. I watched wipe after wipe after wipe even with patient people and good morale and humour. The trial is timed and it hinders new ppl learning. Noone want to finish a trial by the skin of their teeth or just cos they got carried. Most if us want to feel lime we achieved by our own merits
Most ppl on these forums do NOT represent casual platers that are not even aware how to join these forums.

What we have is the elite players and streamers and you are who @ZOS_Kevin listen to and yet so many players that are genuinely struggling dont get a listen in. Im not a casual player cos i play for hrs everyday and have for years.

OD Trial is actually easy if people listen to instructions and/or read a guide.

I've completed it 3 times in PUGs.... The reason most groups fail/wipe and don't complete is because people don't listen or pay attention, or don't have the sense to google for a guide and read through it a few times.

A lot of the quests in NM that don't require kills can be completed with a Stealth/Sneak build or just using a shield and self heal skill. I literally run solo though mobs from one side of a district map to the other spamming heals and shields on a squishy dps.

I am not an elite player....I am generally a Solo player, yes I do Trials occasionally (In PUGS!), I'm in active guilds but haven't ever done any group content with them and pretty much just use them for traders, I have people in my FL but these are just random people who added me I don't know them or play with them.

I generally spend my game time decorating my houses, questing and finishing off achievements....by myself, On a work day I maybe play for a few hours a day, some days not at all, at the weekend I will maybe play for 4 or 5 hours each day if I don't have plans.

Unfortunately players are holding themselves back saying they are too scared to do content, a normal trial, something in a group.. I have even seen multiple people 1.5kcp+ say they have never done a 4 man dungeon....because they are scared....It's a game! If someone is mean to you block/report them and leave the group content and re-que.

NM is aimed at all players, it is not a niche piece of content for hardcore non-casual players, people need to stop expecting to go in solo and kill stuff like it's overland content.

You are saying you aren't a casual player but you are struggling, however I am a casual solo player who isn't struggling....

ceruulean · May 17

In Opulent Ordeal you practice and wipe for maybe 5 hours until you learn everything that's needed. After that, takes 2 hours to get no death achievement.

I spent about 5 hours progging my first vDSR. I still don't have a no death for that trial. It takes months just to clear HM dlc trials. That's 10s of hundreds of hours. The trifecta for many trials takes anywhere from 1 month for easy ones to 9 months for difficult ones.

OO is a lot more accessible and doable, but you gotta put in the time to progress.

Don't worry about being carried. Everyone was a newbie and got carried in the begining. Swallow your pride, ask the better players how to play better, and get the gear that works for the trial. If someone tells you to wear the cookie cutter meta oakensoul build with sergeants mail, or tideborn and orders wrath, then wear it. As long as the raid lead has a general idea of what to accomplish, other people will help to the best of their ability. Whether it's explaining mechs, or deducing the cause of a wipe, or doing callouts.

Like any group content, the hardest part is getting a raid lead who is willing to put in the homework and do the hard stuff like organizing key runs and assigning people to roles and mechanics. It sounds silly but people have their favorite colors, and you won't make everyone perfectly happy but 90% of folks are happy to play if they know what is needed and what to focus on.

beer781993 · May 17

I don't get the drama. It's an endgame activity for experienced players. There is enough content for casuals.
Just do sth that suits you better but don't try talking ZoS into handing everything to you on a silver plate.

You don't need to be a hardcore player. The basics and mechanic knowledge make it already easy.

Games with 0 challenges are boring...

Athory · May 17

Since the release of this [snip] market, I went from playing 12 hours every day to barely playing at all. But now I’m starting to see things a bit differently.

Of course, I still blame ZoS for a lot of this mess… but what if, instead of calling it a [snip] market event, ZoS had called it something like “Season 0 Trial”?

I think the word event makes players expect content for everyone, while trial would immediately make it clear that it’s 100% group-focused content. Maybe the reaction would have been very different. (My reaction would have been 100% different, for sure. I would’ve seen it simply as a new trial, instead of an event where ZoS is punishing solo players. Yes, I know... but that’s honestly how I see it, and I can’t change that impression. I can’t.)

I don’t really know what else to say. I just wanted to share my thoughts about all the confusion and nonsense this situation has brought into the game.

OsUfi · May 17

Athory wrote: »

I would’ve seen it simply as a new trial, instead of an event where ZoS is punishing solo players.

ZoS are not punishing solo players. Some solo players and forum goers are just being very silly about this new content and not grouping with other players.

Soarora · May 17

Opulent Ordeal is for PuGs. I have heard a range of endgamers from streamers to “elites” to regular average endgamer and 0 people have said Opulent Ordeal is hard or even anything other than easy.

I don’t understand the weak link problem you have. The only group wipe is if an entire team worth of people fail to dunk their orb or fail to stand on the aoes by their door. You only need 1 dps on each side to know where to go and how to do their side’s mechanic, the healer, tank, and other dps can just follow them. Compare this to vDSR for instance, where one person messing up what shield to take causes everyone to die and not swimming in the water on last boss causes everyone to die…

Tanking the bosses requires nothing other than hold block and don’t taunt someone else’s boss, but when people do taunt the wrong boss then the correct tank can just re-taunt.

I think the problem you’re running into is exactly why people avoid pugs and set requirements when they do pug— pugs don’t understand things quickly that we would consider basic. Stuff like “stand in yellow aoe” and “stop trying to damage something that’s immune”. I’m hopeful that the difficulty of Night Market is causing people to understand some basics though, the true way to raise the floor is for people to be more aware what’s going on. Like not standing in AoEs/the lightning water trying to damage an immune Sellistrix and learning about yellow “stand in this” AoEs in Opulent Ordeal.

katanagirl1 · May 17

I can understand why pugs are struggling in this trial. We try to put a group of high dps players together to do VSS and we can’t find enough in our guild, then backfill with whoever we can get. We can’t get past the first dragon boss. Really, the mechanics aren’t bad but people can’t seem to follow directions after being told several times.

I’m willing to take a few hours to do this if I can find a group. My guild still hasn’t set up a schedule and time is running out, so I may have to pug it myself. So far none of the pugs for the group dungeons had mics, and it would make things so much easier if they would use them. I hear this trial takes a lot of coordination.

Techwolf_Lupindo · May 17

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I’m willing to take a few hours to do this if I can find a group. My guild still hasn’t set up a schedule and time is running out, so I may have to pug it myself. So far none of the pugs for the group dungeons had mics, and it would make things so much easier if they would use them. I hear this trial takes a lot of coordination.

This is one of the biggest reason that guilds need to be able to increase the limit from 500 to over 5000 to increase the pool of putting together a Vet trail group events.

Either just increase it or sell Crown tokens to increase the limit 100 at a time.

ESO_player123 · May 17

I've finished the trial 4 times now, all with PUGs. Only one time discord was required.

Yes, there were several times when we did not finish: the first time we learned to coordinate for several hours, but could not beat the boss phase (disbanded due to being late); another time it looked like some people did not listen suggestions in chat so people got fed up and left; another time I had to leave because I had to be somewhere but we were getting better with coordination.

Bottom line: if the group is learning, it's expected to wipe over, and over and it's expected to take time.

I personally found this guide very helpful: https://hyperioxes.com/eso/trial/opulent-ordeal Big thanks to the author.

Disclaimer: not bragging here, not end game player, pugs only, just wanted to echo other players' opinion that it's doable with pugs.

Pcgamer · May 17

Soarora wrote: »

Opulent Ordeal is for PuGs. I have heard a range of endgamers from streamers to “elites” to regular average endgamer and 0 people have said Opulent Ordeal is hard or even anything other than easy.

I don’t understand the weak link problem you have. The only group wipe is if an entire team worth of people fail to dunk their orb or fail to stand on the aoes by their door. You only need 1 dps on each side to know where to go and how to do their side’s mechanic, the healer, tank, and other dps can just follow them. Compare this to vDSR for instance, where one person messing up what shield to take causes everyone to die and not swimming in the water on last boss causes everyone to die…

Tanking the bosses requires nothing other than hold block and don’t taunt someone else’s boss, but when people do taunt the wrong boss then the correct tank can just re-taunt.

I think the problem you’re running into is exactly why people avoid pugs and set requirements when they do pug— pugs don’t understand things quickly that we would consider basic. Stuff like “stand in yellow aoe” and “stop trying to damage something that’s immune”. I’m hopeful that the difficulty of Night Market is causing people to understand some basics though, the true way to raise the floor is for people to be more aware what’s going on. Like not standing in AoEs/the lightning water trying to damage an immune Sellistrix and learning about yellow “stand in this” AoEs in Opulent Ordeal.

It took one team person to fail with the orb to wipe the team time and time again. Ppl say im having a drama here but i just want to complete the content. I dont want to skip any eso content.

Pcgamer · May 17

ESO_player123 wrote: »

I've finished the trial 4 times now, all with PUGs. Only one time discord was required.

Yes, there were several times when we did not finish: the first time we learned to coordinate for several hours, but could not beat the boss phase (disbanded due to being late); another time it looked like some people did not listen suggestions in chat so people got fed up and left; another time I had to leave because I had to be somewhere but we were getting better with coordination.

Bottom line: if the group is learning, it's expected to wipe over, and over and it's expected to take time.

I personally found this guide very helpful: https://hyperioxes.com/eso/trial/opulent-ordeal Big thanks to the author.

Disclaimer: not bragging here, not end game player, pugs only, just wanted to echo other players' opinion that it's doable with pugs.

Thank you for the link i shall read it for sure. I genuinely want to beat this trial. Im not having a drama for the sake of it. I worked at getting all my relics and keys and was very excited to get into the trial.

Pcgamer · May 17

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I can understand why pugs are struggling in this trial. We try to put a group of high dps players together to do VSS and we can’t find enough in our guild, then backfill with whoever we can get. We can’t get past the first dragon boss. Really, the mechanics aren’t bad but people can’t seem to follow directions after being told several times.

I’m willing to take a few hours to do this if I can find a group. My guild still hasn’t set up a schedule and time is running out, so I may have to pug it myself. So far none of the pugs for the group dungeons had mics, and it would make things so much easier if they would use them. I hear this trial takes a lot of coordination.

Yes it's coordination that is missing in pugs. I wish you the best of luck at beating the trial

Pcgamer · May 17

beer781993 wrote: »

I don't get the drama. It's an endgame activity for experienced players. There is enough content for casuals.
Just do sth that suits you better but don't try talking ZoS into handing everything to you on a silver plate.

You don't need to be a hardcore player. The basics and mechanic knowledge make it already easy.

Games with 0 challenges are boring...

It's not about huge damage i get it but trying to get the right coordination happening with a pug group is not always working and its exhausting to wipe for hrs and watch people leave groups. I want to clear this trial but not easy in pug groups is my point. Im not a casual i play every day for many hrs i dont call that being casual. Ive geared all my characters.

spartaxoxo · May 17

I think there's some people who have a fundamental misunderstanding of what it takes to be an elite player.

It's not being able to do hard things with ease. It's being willing to fail. Over and over again. Until you have practiced enough that you start succeeding enough you make it look easy.

Elite players didn't get to their positions because of dev favoritism. The devs do what they want to do and it's easy for anyone being objective to see the myriad of ways they have incorporated feedback from all communities.

They got there because they're willing to practice on dummies over and over again until their DPS is high enough. They got there because they're willing to wipe in hard dungeons and trials over and over again until they could do the trial in their sleep. They're got there because they're willing to accept that they aren't necessarily good at a piece of content instantly and listen to people who are better at it without getting an attitude about how it's just an elite telling them what to do.

The Night Market Trial doesn't require good DPS or group gear. It is exactly the sort of challenge midgame more casual vet raiders have asked for, for a long time. The kind of content where they don't have to be a sweaty high parse DPS but also isn't faceroll easy. Not that there's anything wrong with things being sweaty or easy, different people like different things and that's okay.

The Night Market is tuned around midgame/the low end of vet players. It doesn't require anything more than willing able to listen and a willingness to practice until you get it right. If that's not the kind of content you're into and dying a bunch doesn't sound like you're idea of a good time. That's fine. But that doesn't make it elite content. It just means you like your gameplay on the more relaxing side. Nothing wrong with that. But also nothing wrong with them designing content for midgame.

Vulkunne · May 17

I'll use this thread to provide my own experiences with the Opulent Ordeal Trial. In a separate discussion I listed concerns I had with Night Market. However, related specifically to the Opulent Ordeal Trial, of which I have more recent experience dealing with, unfortunately I have nothing good to say about it.

Despite other Trials, even ones that are more well known, random groups I've been part of have failed consistently, I'd say no less than 9/10 times. Add to this another person I know failed 13/14 times, again with neither of us achieving even (1) clear. This 'ordeal' has taken up many hours late at night and even into the morning with same results. Not even (1) successful clear.

If you're in with an organized Trials umm social structure, then those people can get help, and they will all probably be fine. If you're any of the rest of us, solos, casuals, new folks, and Trial Vets like me as well, then you're in trouble. Most of the problems stem from two main issues, a) the relay race and b) the fighting immediately after it.

What happens is something about the way this arena works confuses people, including me. I have no sense of direction in there and it's like there's too much going on, too much for so few to do and no time to really learn it without meeting a wall of hate from others in the group. People are getting really angry FAST. So, it's a bad scene, it's very hostile in that Trial. The second issue is getting the race done is so HARD that we forget to soak and the boss fight falls apart because everyone is super stressed out from the race itself.

This Trial has caused some issues for me and inconvenienced me greatly. My advice is to try and enjoy the Night Market without getting sucked into the Trial. Unless you are in or part of an organized Trials syndicate or extremely lucky, my advice from my own personal hardships and some real damage from this Trial, is to avoid it. Skip it. You have been warned. Others will disagree and say whatever, do not listen to them unless you think you're above everyone else and are ... one of them. Do yourself a favor and listen to the good advice that I ignored, enjoy the Night Market but stay away from Opulent Ordeal.

ZOS, is there any other way we can please obtain the Faction Helms without completing this Trial? Can you please consider having them appear on Golden Vendor maybe at some point in the future?

Thanks

ESO_player123 · May 17

Vulkunne wrote: »

I'll use this thread to provide my own experiences with the Opulent Ordeal Trial. In a separate discussion I listed concerns I had with Night Market. However, related specifically to the Opulent Ordeal Trial, of which I have more recent experience dealing with, unfortunately I have nothing good to say about it.

Despite other Trials, even ones that are more well known, random groups I've been part of have failed consistently, I'd say no less than 9/10 times. Add to this another person I know failed 13/14 times, again with neither of us achieving even (1) clear. This 'ordeal' has taken up many hours late at night and even into the morning with same results. Not even (1) successful clear.

If you're in with an organized Trials umm social structure, then those people can get help, and they will all probably be fine. If you're any of the rest of us, solos, casuals, new folks, and Trial Vets like me as well, then you're in trouble. Most of the problems stem from two main issues, a) the relay race and b) the fighting immediately after it.

What happens is something about the way this arena works confuses people, including me. I have no sense of direction in there and it's like there's too much going on, too much for so few to do and no time to really learn it without meeting a wall of hate from others in the group. People are getting really angry FAST. So, it's a bad scene, it's very hostile in that Trial. The second issue is getting the race done is so HARD that we forget to soak and the boss fight falls apart because everyone is super stressed out from the race.

This Trial has caused some issues for me and inconvenienced me greatly. My advice is to try and enjoy the Night Market without getting sucked into the Trial. Unless you are in or part of an organized Trials syndicate or extremely lucky, my advice from my own personal hardships and some real damage from this Trial, is to avoid it. Skip it. You have been warned. Others will disagree and say whatever, do not listen to them unless you are one of them. Do yourself a favor and listen to the good advice that I ignored, enjoy the Night Market but stay away from Opulent Ordeal.

ZOS, is there any other way we can please obtain the Faction Helms without completing this Trial? Can you please consider having them appear on Golden Vendor maybe at some point in the future?

Thanks

@Vulkunne May I ask you which platform you are playing on?

licenturion · May 17

Athory wrote: »

Since the release of this [snip] market, I went from playing 12 hours every day to barely playing at all. But now I’m starting to see things a bit differently.

Of course, I still blame ZoS for a lot of this mess… but what if, instead of calling it a [snip] market event, ZoS had called it something like “Season 0 Trial”?

I think the word event makes players expect content for everyone, while trial would immediately make it clear that it’s 100% group-focused content. Maybe the reaction would have been very different. (My reaction would have been 100% different, for sure. I would’ve seen it simply as a new trial, instead of an event where ZoS is punishing solo players. Yes, I know... but that’s honestly how I see it, and I can’t change that impression. I can’t.)

I don’t really know what else to say. I just wanted to share my thoughts about all the confusion and nonsense this situation has brought into the game.

Well, the next content drop is actually a new trial.

I wonder if there will be as much uproar with some players as Night Market caused.

ESO_player123 wrote: »

@Vulkunne May I ask you which platform you are playing on?

Yeah platform and time of playing seems to be the deciding factor for this content. I personally play on PC EU and usually around midnight (I am a night owl) and my three PUG trials went smooth. One was even a no death achievement because everyone knew what they were doing and communicated on chat.

If you try this on console in prime time, I imagine it would be a nightmare.

Soarora · May 17

Pcgamer wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Opulent Ordeal is for PuGs. I have heard a range of endgamers from streamers to “elites” to regular average endgamer and 0 people have said Opulent Ordeal is hard or even anything other than easy.

I don’t understand the weak link problem you have. The only group wipe is if an entire team worth of people fail to dunk their orb or fail to stand on the aoes by their door. You only need 1 dps on each side to know where to go and how to do their side’s mechanic, the healer, tank, and other dps can just follow them. Compare this to vDSR for instance, where one person messing up what shield to take causes everyone to die and not swimming in the water on last boss causes everyone to die…

Tanking the bosses requires nothing other than hold block and don’t taunt someone else’s boss, but when people do taunt the wrong boss then the correct tank can just re-taunt.

I think the problem you’re running into is exactly why people avoid pugs and set requirements when they do pug— pugs don’t understand things quickly that we would consider basic. Stuff like “stand in yellow aoe” and “stop trying to damage something that’s immune”. I’m hopeful that the difficulty of Night Market is causing people to understand some basics though, the true way to raise the floor is for people to be more aware what’s going on. Like not standing in AoEs/the lightning water trying to damage an immune Sellistrix and learning about yellow “stand in this” AoEs in Opulent Ordeal.

It took one team person to fail with the orb to wipe the team time and time again. Ppl say im having a drama here but i just want to complete the content. I dont want to skip any eso content.

Someone else can pick up the orb if the person holding it dies. Only ways I can imagine someone causing a problem is if they don’t put the orb in the receptacle or maybe if they fall into the void on web/red side with it. Not trying to imply that you’re having a fuss for the sake of it. The difficulty level just isn’t very high comparatively, but there is a problem that a lot of eso players don’t understand basic mechanics and working together. I don’t blame them, most of the game doesn’t teach that… but Night Market finally does. Given enough time, I hope this will raise the floor of competency in content like how pugs get better at dlc dungeons until they become a non-issue in the queue.

Soarora · May 17

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I think there's some people who have a fundamental misunderstanding of what it takes to be an elite player.

It's not being able to do hard things with ease. It's being willing to fail. Over and over again. Until you have practiced enough that you start succeeding enough you make it look easy.

Elite players didn't get to their positions because of dev favoritism. The devs do what they want to do and it's easy for anyone being objective to see the myriad of ways they have incorporated feedback from all communities.

They got there because they're willing to practice on dummies over and over again until their DPS is high enough. They got there because they're willing to wipe in hard dungeons and trials over and over again until they could do the trial in their sleep. They're got there because they're willing to accept that they aren't necessarily good at a piece of content instantly and listen to people who are better at it without getting an attitude about how it's just an elite telling them what to do.

Thank you for saying this, maybe it’s something we should say more often. I doubt most, if any of us, got to where we are just on pure talent. I was a casual from 2019 to 2021. I got kicked from many a-dungeon run for having bad dps. I’m where I am now because I didn’t give up and I have the drive to improve. Becoming midgame and becoming endgame is a choice, it’s not a choice that needs to be made but you’ll also never get to that level with time alone. Especially when a major part of endgame is networking, I’d say moreso than raw skills.

Soarora · May 17

Vulkunne wrote: »

What happens is something about the way this arena works confuses people, including me. I have no sense of direction in there and it's like there's too much going on, too much for so few to do and no time to really learn it without meeting a wall of hate from others in the group. People are getting really angry FAST. So, it's a bad scene, it's very hostile in that Trial. The second issue is getting the race done is so HARD that we forget to soak and the boss fight falls apart because everyone is super stressed out from the race.

If you have access to a minimap, it makes a world of difference. I think there’s also several MoreMarkers strings floating about. For the soaking, the group that “dunked” their orb is the one that needs to soak. Plus any team whose already “dunked” their orb. During the fight, I heard the next soak is whatever team’s mechanic has shown up in the fight? Like flameshaper shows up so next soak is sand?

Vulkunne wrote: »

ZOS, is there any other way we can please obtain the Faction Helms without completing this Trial? Can you please consider having them appear on Golden Vendor maybe at some point in the future?

You will get one in the mail at the conclusion of Night Market.

tomofhyrule · May 17

licenturion wrote: »

Athory wrote: »

Since the release of this [snip] market, I went from playing 12 hours every day to barely playing at all. But now I’m starting to see things a bit differently.

Of course, I still blame ZoS for a lot of this mess… but what if, instead of calling it a [snip] market event, ZoS had called it something like “Season 0 Trial”?

I think the word event makes players expect content for everyone, while trial would immediately make it clear that it’s 100% group-focused content. Maybe the reaction would have been very different. (My reaction would have been 100% different, for sure. I would’ve seen it simply as a new trial, instead of an event where ZoS is punishing solo players. Yes, I know... but that’s honestly how I see it, and I can’t change that impression. I can’t.)

I don’t really know what else to say. I just wanted to share my thoughts about all the confusion and nonsense this situation has brought into the game.

Well, the next content drop is actually a new trial.

I wonder if there will be as much uproar with some players as Night Market caused.

Nope. The next content drop is actually a solo story with the Thieves Guild in Glenumbra, though the patch drops on June 8 and the story will open when Season 1 starts in July. That patch also includes another story which is likely to open the next month thereafter which is a solo story involving Sheogorath that proceeds through several zones.

The next trail was actually delayed from the summer patch to the fall patch (U51), and we really don't know anything about it yet other than that it's set in Hircine's realm.

SeaGtGruff · May 17

beer781993 wrote: »

I don't get the drama. It's an endgame activity for experienced players. There is enough content for casuals.
Just do sth that suits you better but don't try talking ZoS into handing everything to you on a silver plate.

You don't need to be a hardcore player. The basics and mechanic knowledge make it already easy.

Games with 0 challenges are boring...

I really don't get this sort of dismissive put-down. Nothing in the OP's post suggested that they want anything handed to them on a silver plate. This same dismissive put-down gets trotted out time and again on these forums, and usually in situations such as this one where it doesn't even have any genuine relevance to what someone actually posted.

FlopsyPrince · May 17

Blood_again wrote: »

Surprise-surprise, the Opulent Ordeal trial is for them, not for hardcore players

This assumes they will even try. I don't expect to even try the dungeons, let alone the trial. Maybe enough grinding to reach 5K or 10K if I can stomach playing several of my alts through the same stuff in time, maybe not.

Glad you are helping others out even after you no longer need anything, but that is definitely not the norm, at least I would guess that.

This needed much better pickup group design (large numbers in each instance, etc.) and not just LFG. LFG is vital of course, but not sufficient. Try finding someone doing anything in the very early morning, for example. Sometimes you do, many times not.

ZOS would benefit by learning how to scale things well too. Some groups can burn stuff down almost too quickly while others struggle. And any activity that forces me to run while dead many, many times is not well designed IMHO.

SANGUARI · May 17

IT WAS TOO EASY, PLEASE DO NOT INCREASE INSTANCE CAP. I DO NOT WANT TO STAND AROUND IDLE WAITING FOR BOSSES.

Ps: For the trial, you just need to play the ball mechanic properly and remember to block. It is super easy. As long as the tactic is applied correctly, there is no real difficulty. It does not require high DPS, it is mostly coordination based.

beer781993 · May 18

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

beer781993 wrote: »

I don't get the drama. It's an endgame activity for experienced players. There is enough content for casuals.
Just do sth that suits you better but don't try talking ZoS into handing everything to you on a silver plate.

You don't need to be a hardcore player. The basics and mechanic knowledge make it already easy.

Games with 0 challenges are boring...

I really don't get this sort of dismissive put-down. Nothing in the OP's post suggested that they want anything handed to them on a silver plate. This same dismissive put-down gets trotted out time and again on these forums, and usually in situations such as this one where it doesn't even have any genuine relevance to what someone actually posted.

The only thing the Op is trying to achieve with this post is a nerf to an already not so hard trial. The difficulty is like a vet trial without hard mode. It's not necessary to take away any difficulty, it makes things boring.

If you don't want to join a guild or a dedicated group, then this is not the content for you. No need to destroy the fun of dedicated players.

As I said there is enough casual content.

spartaxoxo · May 18

beer781993 wrote: »

If you don't want to join a guild or a dedicated group, then this is not the content for you. No need to destroy the fun of dedicated players.

I have cleared it with a PUG group without issue. So have many others. Some PUG groups won't succeed and others will. But it's still very much doable without a guild or dedicated group.