eso add-ons should be optional or mandatory???

spartaxoxo · May 14

optimal

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

where as its not zos job to force someone play with you it is their job to limit the things players can use to dismiss others over

Well, in the sense they should maintain a balanced game, sure. But, the don't have to do that by banning add-ons from console. That's like saying "Raid Leads require DK so they have an obligation to delete them from the game."

But there's plenty of ways to address imbalance in the game's design that makes add-ons so "mandatory," without outright deleting the add-on.

Off the top of my head, a free version of the armory assistant that only swaps gear. Better UI design on fights where people consistently can't see tells like the twins in vmol. Etc etc. Half the reason people like them is because it's difficult to see things like the interrupt lines. That's something they could easily fix and a much more inclusive way to do so than mandating console can't use any particular add-on.

zaria · May 14

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Yes, they should be optional. I have never once required a group member to download an add-on. I have suggested that they may find it helpful a couple of times but I don't and wouldn't require them to install it. Ofc, I'm not a score pushing trial trifecta level player either. I understand they like to optimize things a lot so have greater requirements of players than regular vet clears. To each their own.

This, yes organized trial or PvP guilds might demand addons.
Now many mods has become part of the main game like action duration who show how long until and buff or dot times out.
At this time they are pretty much standard, but knowing then they time out is very important.

frogthroat · May 14

spartaxoxo wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

where as its not zos job to force someone play with you it is their job to limit the things players can use to dismiss others over

Why is it their job to dictate what is and isn't an acceptable requirement for individuals to form a group?

I used to be in an Argonian rp guild. Should zos force that guild to accept players who refuse to make an Argonoan character?

I am in a solo player guild revolving around PO, where the requirement is to post a picture you have PO. Should zos force them to accept people who don't have PO?

What's PO?

The Ring of the Pale Order. An awesome solo mythic that turns 20% of your damage to healing. But the healing gets 4% lower with each player you're grouped with and you cannot be healed by anyone else but you. Works even in IA as a duo, since 16% is still good.

Soarora · May 14

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

where as its not zos job to force someone play with you it is their job to limit the things players can use to dismiss others over

The community will always have something to dismiss people over. Maybe it’s if they play a HA build, maybe it’s that they’re a werewolf, maybe it’s that they pure class, maybe it’s that they play cro or warden dps, maybe it’s that they don’t use addons. Friendship is the answer here… one must create their own sub community if they are willing and able to carve a place for people like them.

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

FlameDark wrote: »

Addons when mandatory are called game mechanics, which ZOS has in the past formed game mechs from popular addons. Thus all Addons are optional, it is pointless to make a poll asking this. This is where my vote lies.

Although I do see the underlying reason why the poll was created and I dont like it. Firstly, if you do not like your raid group demanding a single addon to use while raiding, then don't do anything with that group. Simple. Join another if you can't make your own, that does not require that specific addon. They do exist. I believe in free will, and if a raid leader wants everyone to use a specific addon in their group, or if they want everyone wearing the bucket helmet, hell if they want everyone to use the assassin personality during the raid for extra edge, then they are fully allowed to do it and you do not have to join. That is your right, and that is their right. You choose to not use addons, cool. Good for you. Do not force it on the rest of us. If you feel you are unfairly being held back because you choose to not use addons, that is really not our problem. That is a choice you made. You can absolutely do the exact same thing as everyone with addons while not using them, perhaps if you cant keep up, it is less the addons fault?

Addons are as much a part of the game as the character creation menu. Minion and ESOUI allow players to enhance and custom make their own UI preference through it. It takes a load off of ZOS if the community helps make gameplay improvements that ZOS oversees and can adjust when needed. However, it is totally optional and should remain that way.

So now I am going to be very kind here, and say with as much patience as I can muster. OP, you need to stop.

You have already made a thread about Addons, you have invaded other threads about Addons, and now a poll about addons. I understand it is difficult for you to grasp what it is we are all saying. I know you have read the facts that we have quite firmly told you before about why you are wrong, and you have decided it is nothing more then mindless opinions. You do not care to listen to us, and there is nothing more that we can say or do that can change how you feel. You do not care about anything BUT removing addons from the game, and you firmly believe they are a threat to the game. We get that. Trust me we ALL get that. Your message was loud and clear. However, myself and many others FIRMLY disagree with you on that. But at this point this has now turned into just an emotional vendetta against addons. I don't know what happened that caused such a... dramatic... reaction. But find new guilds if the ones you are in now have caused you to lash out on the forums like this. Addons will remain, Wizards will remain, if you don't like playing a game with addons well... I am sure there is other games that can take up your time. Its harsh, but really there is nothing left to say to you. Accept addons are a thing, or leave. Since I highly doubt that any argument, facts, or Todd Howard himself floating down from the sky to tell you Addons are not the boogie man of ESO and are here to stay would ever convince you otherwise, then you are going to have to have the realization that everything you are trying to do will never work and to either begrudgingly accept this and continue playing, or just dont accept it and either continue to play ESO miserably, or find another MMO that matches your opinion of addons. Either or, that is how this is going to end. As I have said my part, and the OP will not change their stance, I am bowing out of the debate entirely. As this is both exhausting and pointless.

i wasnt going to speak in this poll other than saying sorry for misspelled word in poll but since you want to bring up other post ive made while saying others have SHOWN me proof that what ive been saying is wrong id like to ask you what PROOF not opinions has been SHOWN ??????
ive seen more insults and belittlement then i have PROOF in every post ive made SINCE 1ST day of joining the forum's,

You've been told over and over again by numerous people there's no problem. You've been told by someone who directly spoke with ZOS there's no problem. You've ignored all the proof and instead of admitting you were wrong and letting bygones be bygones, you instead resort to claiming people are "insulting" and "belittling" you.

So are you going to claim now that Kevin coming and telling you in the thread that got closed is also insulting and belittling you? Are you going to claim this somehow isn't "proof" that your opinion on WW and similar addons is incorrect and potentially at this rate bordering on spam and/or misinformation?

You are allowed to have your opinion. Everyone is. You're allowed to THINK addons somehow ruin the integrity of the game. But you're over here time and again presenting these opinions as objective fact. That isn't the case. You're allowed to dislike addons, think they're cheating, think they ruin the game, whatever you want to think. You're allowed to avoid them, as they aren't "mandatory" in that they're NEEDED to play the game. A lot of people like myself find them mandatory in the sense that they actually make the game more enjoyable and easier in numerous ways, but they aren't mandatory in the way you're trying to imply.

And yes, as much as it sucks, people ARE allowed to dictate who they play with. ZOS has NO say in how people decide that. They CANNOT make people want to play with you. They CANNOT force people to leave out X or Y requirements in order to play with you. By your logic of it being ZOS' job to limit "exclusion" (which it is not and never should be), then hey, groups can't require X amount of DPS, X amount of heals, they can't require Tanks/Healers/DPS or specific Gear or Skills that make the content easier for those taking part. All of that excludes someone, right? See how much of a slippery slope that is?

It is not and will never be ZOS' responsibility to police people including others or not. The ONLY time it would be under their jurisdiction is if that exclusion is targeted to troll or harass someone. And no, requiring someone to use an addon isn't targeted harassment or trolling any more than requiring your DPS to do 100k on a parse is. In fact, it's LESS exclusionary because putting on an addon is a choice and not something you need to actually work at doing like having endgame DPS or tanking ability or whatever.

great for PC you got another win and get to keep your favorit toy , sad thing is you all want crossplay so you'll have more players in the game while console playings are leaving the game in masses over the way the games going , but you PC players dont get that YES add-ons has been PC game play for 10+ years for console its been the opposite my friends list has went from having 250 active players a day to just 30-40 and thats having 684 friends that use to play eso 85% daily for upwards of 16 hours ... KEEP GATEKEEPING THE GAME TO JUST PC AND THERE WONT BE PLAYERS FOR CROSSPLAY TO BE NEEDED LOL GOODBYE just like i left the PC community after buying an 3500$ PC for not wanting to run add-ons ill now being doing the same on PSN

I don’t want crossplay, actually. I get a sense that the people who do are people with friends on other platforms and/or a main account on a console but they transferred to pc.

frogthroat · May 14

Soarora wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

where as its not zos job to force someone play with you it is their job to limit the things players can use to dismiss others over

The community will always have something to dismiss people over. Maybe it’s if they play a HA build, maybe it’s that they’re a werewolf, maybe it’s that they pure class, maybe it’s that they play cro or warden dps, maybe it’s that they don’t use addons. Friendship is the answer here… one must create their own sub community if they are willing and able to carve a place for people like them.

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

FlameDark wrote: »

Addons when mandatory are called game mechanics, which ZOS has in the past formed game mechs from popular addons. Thus all Addons are optional, it is pointless to make a poll asking this. This is where my vote lies.

Although I do see the underlying reason why the poll was created and I dont like it. Firstly, if you do not like your raid group demanding a single addon to use while raiding, then don't do anything with that group. Simple. Join another if you can't make your own, that does not require that specific addon. They do exist. I believe in free will, and if a raid leader wants everyone to use a specific addon in their group, or if they want everyone wearing the bucket helmet, hell if they want everyone to use the assassin personality during the raid for extra edge, then they are fully allowed to do it and you do not have to join. That is your right, and that is their right. You choose to not use addons, cool. Good for you. Do not force it on the rest of us. If you feel you are unfairly being held back because you choose to not use addons, that is really not our problem. That is a choice you made. You can absolutely do the exact same thing as everyone with addons while not using them, perhaps if you cant keep up, it is less the addons fault?

Addons are as much a part of the game as the character creation menu. Minion and ESOUI allow players to enhance and custom make their own UI preference through it. It takes a load off of ZOS if the community helps make gameplay improvements that ZOS oversees and can adjust when needed. However, it is totally optional and should remain that way.

So now I am going to be very kind here, and say with as much patience as I can muster. OP, you need to stop.

You have already made a thread about Addons, you have invaded other threads about Addons, and now a poll about addons. I understand it is difficult for you to grasp what it is we are all saying. I know you have read the facts that we have quite firmly told you before about why you are wrong, and you have decided it is nothing more then mindless opinions. You do not care to listen to us, and there is nothing more that we can say or do that can change how you feel. You do not care about anything BUT removing addons from the game, and you firmly believe they are a threat to the game. We get that. Trust me we ALL get that. Your message was loud and clear. However, myself and many others FIRMLY disagree with you on that. But at this point this has now turned into just an emotional vendetta against addons. I don't know what happened that caused such a... dramatic... reaction. But find new guilds if the ones you are in now have caused you to lash out on the forums like this. Addons will remain, Wizards will remain, if you don't like playing a game with addons well... I am sure there is other games that can take up your time. Its harsh, but really there is nothing left to say to you. Accept addons are a thing, or leave. Since I highly doubt that any argument, facts, or Todd Howard himself floating down from the sky to tell you Addons are not the boogie man of ESO and are here to stay would ever convince you otherwise, then you are going to have to have the realization that everything you are trying to do will never work and to either begrudgingly accept this and continue playing, or just dont accept it and either continue to play ESO miserably, or find another MMO that matches your opinion of addons. Either or, that is how this is going to end. As I have said my part, and the OP will not change their stance, I am bowing out of the debate entirely. As this is both exhausting and pointless.

i wasnt going to speak in this poll other than saying sorry for misspelled word in poll but since you want to bring up other post ive made while saying others have SHOWN me proof that what ive been saying is wrong id like to ask you what PROOF not opinions has been SHOWN ??????
ive seen more insults and belittlement then i have PROOF in every post ive made SINCE 1ST day of joining the forum's,

You've been told over and over again by numerous people there's no problem. You've been told by someone who directly spoke with ZOS there's no problem. You've ignored all the proof and instead of admitting you were wrong and letting bygones be bygones, you instead resort to claiming people are "insulting" and "belittling" you.

So are you going to claim now that Kevin coming and telling you in the thread that got closed is also insulting and belittling you? Are you going to claim this somehow isn't "proof" that your opinion on WW and similar addons is incorrect and potentially at this rate bordering on spam and/or misinformation?

You are allowed to have your opinion. Everyone is. You're allowed to THINK addons somehow ruin the integrity of the game. But you're over here time and again presenting these opinions as objective fact. That isn't the case. You're allowed to dislike addons, think they're cheating, think they ruin the game, whatever you want to think. You're allowed to avoid them, as they aren't "mandatory" in that they're NEEDED to play the game. A lot of people like myself find them mandatory in the sense that they actually make the game more enjoyable and easier in numerous ways, but they aren't mandatory in the way you're trying to imply.

And yes, as much as it sucks, people ARE allowed to dictate who they play with. ZOS has NO say in how people decide that. They CANNOT make people want to play with you. They CANNOT force people to leave out X or Y requirements in order to play with you. By your logic of it being ZOS' job to limit "exclusion" (which it is not and never should be), then hey, groups can't require X amount of DPS, X amount of heals, they can't require Tanks/Healers/DPS or specific Gear or Skills that make the content easier for those taking part. All of that excludes someone, right? See how much of a slippery slope that is?

It is not and will never be ZOS' responsibility to police people including others or not. The ONLY time it would be under their jurisdiction is if that exclusion is targeted to troll or harass someone. And no, requiring someone to use an addon isn't targeted harassment or trolling any more than requiring your DPS to do 100k on a parse is. In fact, it's LESS exclusionary because putting on an addon is a choice and not something you need to actually work at doing like having endgame DPS or tanking ability or whatever.

great for PC you got another win and get to keep your favorit toy , sad thing is you all want crossplay so you'll have more players in the game while console playings are leaving the game in masses over the way the games going , but you PC players dont get that YES add-ons has been PC game play for 10+ years for console its been the opposite my friends list has went from having 250 active players a day to just 30-40 and thats having 684 friends that use to play eso 85% daily for upwards of 16 hours ... KEEP GATEKEEPING THE GAME TO JUST PC AND THERE WONT BE PLAYERS FOR CROSSPLAY TO BE NEEDED LOL GOODBYE just like i left the PC community after buying an 3500$ PC for not wanting to run add-ons ill now being doing the same on PSN

I don’t want crossplay, actually. I get a sense that the people who do are people with friends on other platforms and/or a main account on a console but they transferred to pc.

Want is a strong word. Especially because I don't know anyone from consoles.

But I welcome it. The more, the merrier.

I guess that was one of the reasons why addons came to consoles. If both sides are to play on the same server, they have to hace access (at least the door open for it) to the same addons.

It just needs to be tested on PTS pretty thoroughly. Especially PVP. If they can't make PVP balanced 100%, the other side will quit the game. What's the point of playing if there is no way for you to win? (And I play PVP casually at best.)

Wouldn't mind having Huppelihiiri in our guild, though.

spartaxoxo · May 14

optimal

frogthroat wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

where as its not zos job to force someone play with you it is their job to limit the things players can use to dismiss others over

Why is it their job to dictate what is and isn't an acceptable requirement for individuals to form a group?

I used to be in an Argonian rp guild. Should zos force that guild to accept players who refuse to make an Argonoan character?

I am in a solo player guild revolving around PO, where the requirement is to post a picture you have PO. Should zos force them to accept people who don't have PO?

What's PO?

The Ring of the Pale Order. An awesome solo mythic that turns 20% of your damage to healing. But the healing gets 4% lower with each player you're grouped with and you cannot be healed by anyone else but you. Works even in IA as a duo, since 16% is still good.

Ah. Didn't realize there would be a whole guild dedicated to that ring. I have that ring. It's a nice ring 💍

heimdall14_9 · May 14

SANGUARI wrote: »

Bro plays on PlayStation and is out here starting a holy war against PC addons, it is actually hilarious. xD

why should add-ons only be viewed by 1/3 of the players sad day when 2/3 of something has no voice

SANGUARI · May 14

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

SANGUARI wrote: »

Bro plays on PlayStation and is out here starting a holy war against PC addons, it is actually hilarious. xD

why should add-ons only be viewed by 1/3 of the players sad day when 2/3 of something has no voice

First, the PC playerbase is much bigger. Second, around me on PC EU, almost nobody wants cross-play. It is mostly console players who want it more.

Third, your agitation is starting to get really tiring. If you want to make the game harder for yourself, then do it. Someone already gave you a very good answer in another thread too.

You are opening 3 different topics and trying to stir things up everywhere. Honestly, if cross-play is going to bring more people acting like this, then I do not even want it anymore.

Refusing what the majority likes and constantly trying to push everyone toward the way you want to play is getting really boring. Even after ZOS answered, you still continue the same agitation.

heimdall14_9 · May 14

SANGUARI wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

SANGUARI wrote: »

Bro plays on PlayStation and is out here starting a holy war against PC addons, it is actually hilarious. xD

why should add-ons only be viewed by 1/3 of the players sad day when 2/3 of something has no voice

First, the PC playerbase is much bigger. Second, around me on PC EU, almost nobody wants cross-play. It is mostly console players who want it more.

Third, your agitation is starting to get really tiring. If you want to make the game harder for yourself, then do it. Someone already gave you a very good answer in another thread too.

You are opening 3 different topics and trying to stir things up everywhere. Honestly, if cross-play is going to bring more people acting like this, then I do not even want it anymore.

Refusing what the majority likes and constantly trying to push everyone toward the way you want to play is getting really boring. Even after ZOS answered, you still continue the same agitation.

like ive stated before ive seen 2/3 of my friends list of over 600 friends leave out eso ive watched 8 different raid guilds disband for two reasons in the last year PVP and ADD-ONS ,my main focus has been on add-ons and the battle spirit.. oh and i guess my disabilities, my use of AI tools ( community suggested due to disability) , time ive played (over 48K hours),and my character as a peron ....and with add-on tools humming both raid and pvp attacking ones that effect both 1st seems the best way to start a fight when you know its a upsteam battle already because your side of the fight has no say in matters and its not just the players that feel like that

i came here trying to use ToS,CoC add-on terms , forgotten PVP system that balances PVP no need for vengeance, IC getting telvar issues things ive hear players walk away from the game over and shown proof how reading it they have a right to feel some of the things are just worth leaveing the game over

SANGUARI · May 14

Look, WoW has similar features built in, even SWTOR has it. I would rather see ZOS integrate what WizardWardrobe does into the base game.

But even WoW messed things up while pruning addons and integrating features, and eventually walked back on a lot of it because they could not replace them properly. Most of the addons they tried to kill came back anyway. So I seriously doubt ZOS could handle it properly. They are a much less experienced company.

Blood_again · May 14

OP, before this topic turns to a complete drama,
what was the purpose of this poll?

I'm really interested. Thank you.
And whatever was the purpose, I hope you've reached it.

heimdall14_9 · May 14

SANGUARI wrote: »

Look, WoW has similar features built in, even SWTOR has it. I would rather see ZOS integrate what WizardWardrobe does into the base game.

But even WoW messed things up while pruning addons and integrating features, and eventually walked back on a lot of it because they could not replace them properly. Most of the addons they tried to kill came back anyway. So I seriously doubt ZOS could handle it properly. They are a much less experienced company.

they can 100% fix all these issues but with how long the two ( pc , console) worlds have been let to grow zos in the last year took two world's and put them into one NO QUESTIONS ASKED to a lot of players that has flipped their world upside down thats why gets to draw a line and they have in this matter witch is good as its the 1st time they never officially spoken toany of my other post about other matters

Arunei · May 14

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

FlameDark wrote: »

Addons when mandatory are called game mechanics, which ZOS has in the past formed game mechs from popular addons. Thus all Addons are optional, it is pointless to make a poll asking this. This is where my vote lies.

Although I do see the underlying reason why the poll was created and I dont like it. Firstly, if you do not like your raid group demanding a single addon to use while raiding, then don't do anything with that group. Simple. Join another if you can't make your own, that does not require that specific addon. They do exist. I believe in free will, and if a raid leader wants everyone to use a specific addon in their group, or if they want everyone wearing the bucket helmet, hell if they want everyone to use the assassin personality during the raid for extra edge, then they are fully allowed to do it and you do not have to join. That is your right, and that is their right. You choose to not use addons, cool. Good for you. Do not force it on the rest of us. If you feel you are unfairly being held back because you choose to not use addons, that is really not our problem. That is a choice you made. You can absolutely do the exact same thing as everyone with addons while not using them, perhaps if you cant keep up, it is less the addons fault?

Addons are as much a part of the game as the character creation menu. Minion and ESOUI allow players to enhance and custom make their own UI preference through it. It takes a load off of ZOS if the community helps make gameplay improvements that ZOS oversees and can adjust when needed. However, it is totally optional and should remain that way.

So now I am going to be very kind here, and say with as much patience as I can muster. OP, you need to stop.

You have already made a thread about Addons, you have invaded other threads about Addons, and now a poll about addons. I understand it is difficult for you to grasp what it is we are all saying. I know you have read the facts that we have quite firmly told you before about why you are wrong, and you have decided it is nothing more then mindless opinions. You do not care to listen to us, and there is nothing more that we can say or do that can change how you feel. You do not care about anything BUT removing addons from the game, and you firmly believe they are a threat to the game. We get that. Trust me we ALL get that. Your message was loud and clear. However, myself and many others FIRMLY disagree with you on that. But at this point this has now turned into just an emotional vendetta against addons. I don't know what happened that caused such a... dramatic... reaction. But find new guilds if the ones you are in now have caused you to lash out on the forums like this. Addons will remain, Wizards will remain, if you don't like playing a game with addons well... I am sure there is other games that can take up your time. Its harsh, but really there is nothing left to say to you. Accept addons are a thing, or leave. Since I highly doubt that any argument, facts, or Todd Howard himself floating down from the sky to tell you Addons are not the boogie man of ESO and are here to stay would ever convince you otherwise, then you are going to have to have the realization that everything you are trying to do will never work and to either begrudgingly accept this and continue playing, or just dont accept it and either continue to play ESO miserably, or find another MMO that matches your opinion of addons. Either or, that is how this is going to end. As I have said my part, and the OP will not change their stance, I am bowing out of the debate entirely. As this is both exhausting and pointless.

i wasnt going to speak in this poll other than saying sorry for misspelled word in poll but since you want to bring up other post ive made while saying others have SHOWN me proof that what ive been saying is wrong id like to ask you what PROOF not opinions has been SHOWN ??????
ive seen more insults and belittlement then i have PROOF in every post ive made SINCE 1ST day of joining the forum's,

You've been told over and over again by numerous people there's no problem. You've been told by someone who directly spoke with ZOS there's no problem. You've ignored all the proof and instead of admitting you were wrong and letting bygones be bygones, you instead resort to claiming people are "insulting" and "belittling" you.

So are you going to claim now that Kevin coming and telling you in the thread that got closed is also insulting and belittling you? Are you going to claim this somehow isn't "proof" that your opinion on WW and similar addons is incorrect and potentially at this rate bordering on spam and/or misinformation?

You are allowed to have your opinion. Everyone is. You're allowed to THINK addons somehow ruin the integrity of the game. But you're over here time and again presenting these opinions as objective fact. That isn't the case. You're allowed to dislike addons, think they're cheating, think they ruin the game, whatever you want to think. You're allowed to avoid them, as they aren't "mandatory" in that they're NEEDED to play the game. A lot of people like myself find them mandatory in the sense that they actually make the game more enjoyable and easier in numerous ways, but they aren't mandatory in the way you're trying to imply.

And yes, as much as it sucks, people ARE allowed to dictate who they play with. ZOS has NO say in how people decide that. They CANNOT make people want to play with you. They CANNOT force people to leave out X or Y requirements in order to play with you. By your logic of it being ZOS' job to limit "exclusion" (which it is not and never should be), then hey, groups can't require X amount of DPS, X amount of heals, they can't require Tanks/Healers/DPS or specific Gear or Skills that make the content easier for those taking part. All of that excludes someone, right? See how much of a slippery slope that is?

It is not and will never be ZOS' responsibility to police people including others or not. The ONLY time it would be under their jurisdiction is if that exclusion is targeted to troll or harass someone. And no, requiring someone to use an addon isn't targeted harassment or trolling any more than requiring your DPS to do 100k on a parse is. In fact, it's LESS exclusionary because putting on an addon is a choice and not something you need to actually work at doing like having endgame DPS or tanking ability or whatever.

great for PC you got another win and get to keep your favorit toy , sad thing is you all want crossplay so you'll have more players in the game while console playings are leaving the game in masses over the way the games going , but you PC players dont get that YES add-ons has been PC game play for 10+ years for console its been the opposite my friends list has went from having 250 active players a day to just 30-40 and thats having 684 friends that use to play eso 85% daily for upwards of 16 hours ... KEEP GATEKEEPING THE GAME TO JUST PC AND THERE WONT BE PLAYERS FOR CROSSPLAY TO BE NEEDED LOL GOODBYE just like i left the PC community after buying an 3500$ PC for not wanting to run add-ons ill now being doing the same on PSN

It's a long stretch and a hell of a claim to say that WW is someone's favorite toy. I don't use it at all. I'd say my "favorite toy" is either Lazy Writ or PChat. Just because people are telling you that you are indeed wrong about stuff like WW "breaking the ToS/CoC" doesn't mean that thing is anything they remotely like or even use. It's simply people pointing out that your reasoning doesn't line up with what ZOS sees as exploits or otherwise problematic.

People are always leaving this game. People always leave ANY MMO for a number of reasons. I see people on here day in and day out claiming that people are leaving the game in droves, the game is dying, we've all see it time and time again. You claiming you've seen hundreds of people leaving the game over something like addons is, quite frankly, unbelievable. PvP? Probably more likely because a lot of people who enjoy PvP rarely get anything for that game mode so I can see people leaving when their preferred method of play feels stale and/or boring. But your other claims, having almost 700 friends...I hate to tell you this but big numbers doesn't make a claim seem more impressive, it makes it seem implausible. You claim these are "friends" but are those people you actually know personally or just people you see on a list?

Regardless of how valid your claims are, at the end of the day it's not gatekeeping anything. Does it suck if you can't get into a group because you don't want to use something they require? Yes. Are groups allowed to impose restrictions despite how much it sucks to try and ensure they actually get through the content they're pushing for? Also yes.Gatekeeping implies you're being kept from content entirely because of a Guild requiring you to use something you don't want to, but that's not happening. You're only kept from doing things with THAT particular Guild. There are, however, plenty of Guilds that DON'T have that requirement one could join. Like someone else mentioned, if they want to join an Argonian RP Guild but have no Argonian characters, they aren't being gatekept from RP because of that requirement. They just aren't capable of joining THAT specific Guild, and there are plenty of other Guilds that DON'T require them to have an Argonian to join.

There's also another option people have advised you of, which is making your own Guild. Why not take that advice? Make a Guild, specify you won't require addons for any content, do the advertising. If you want things to be a certain way and can't find what you're looking for in what others have made then your best bet isn't going to be going on some war against addons, it's going to be making your own space that fits what you want. You know what they say, be the change you want to see in the world and all that.

heimdall14_9 · May 15

Arunei wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

FlameDark wrote: »

Addons when mandatory are called game mechanics, which ZOS has in the past formed game mechs from popular addons. Thus all Addons are optional, it is pointless to make a poll asking this. This is where my vote lies.

Although I do see the underlying reason why the poll was created and I dont like it. Firstly, if you do not like your raid group demanding a single addon to use while raiding, then don't do anything with that group. Simple. Join another if you can't make your own, that does not require that specific addon. They do exist. I believe in free will, and if a raid leader wants everyone to use a specific addon in their group, or if they want everyone wearing the bucket helmet, hell if they want everyone to use the assassin personality during the raid for extra edge, then they are fully allowed to do it and you do not have to join. That is your right, and that is their right. You choose to not use addons, cool. Good for you. Do not force it on the rest of us. If you feel you are unfairly being held back because you choose to not use addons, that is really not our problem. That is a choice you made. You can absolutely do the exact same thing as everyone with addons while not using them, perhaps if you cant keep up, it is less the addons fault?

Addons are as much a part of the game as the character creation menu. Minion and ESOUI allow players to enhance and custom make their own UI preference through it. It takes a load off of ZOS if the community helps make gameplay improvements that ZOS oversees and can adjust when needed. However, it is totally optional and should remain that way.

So now I am going to be very kind here, and say with as much patience as I can muster. OP, you need to stop.

You have already made a thread about Addons, you have invaded other threads about Addons, and now a poll about addons. I understand it is difficult for you to grasp what it is we are all saying. I know you have read the facts that we have quite firmly told you before about why you are wrong, and you have decided it is nothing more then mindless opinions. You do not care to listen to us, and there is nothing more that we can say or do that can change how you feel. You do not care about anything BUT removing addons from the game, and you firmly believe they are a threat to the game. We get that. Trust me we ALL get that. Your message was loud and clear. However, myself and many others FIRMLY disagree with you on that. But at this point this has now turned into just an emotional vendetta against addons. I don't know what happened that caused such a... dramatic... reaction. But find new guilds if the ones you are in now have caused you to lash out on the forums like this. Addons will remain, Wizards will remain, if you don't like playing a game with addons well... I am sure there is other games that can take up your time. Its harsh, but really there is nothing left to say to you. Accept addons are a thing, or leave. Since I highly doubt that any argument, facts, or Todd Howard himself floating down from the sky to tell you Addons are not the boogie man of ESO and are here to stay would ever convince you otherwise, then you are going to have to have the realization that everything you are trying to do will never work and to either begrudgingly accept this and continue playing, or just dont accept it and either continue to play ESO miserably, or find another MMO that matches your opinion of addons. Either or, that is how this is going to end. As I have said my part, and the OP will not change their stance, I am bowing out of the debate entirely. As this is both exhausting and pointless.

i wasnt going to speak in this poll other than saying sorry for misspelled word in poll but since you want to bring up other post ive made while saying others have SHOWN me proof that what ive been saying is wrong id like to ask you what PROOF not opinions has been SHOWN ??????
ive seen more insults and belittlement then i have PROOF in every post ive made SINCE 1ST day of joining the forum's,

You've been told over and over again by numerous people there's no problem. You've been told by someone who directly spoke with ZOS there's no problem. You've ignored all the proof and instead of admitting you were wrong and letting bygones be bygones, you instead resort to claiming people are "insulting" and "belittling" you.

So are you going to claim now that Kevin coming and telling you in the thread that got closed is also insulting and belittling you? Are you going to claim this somehow isn't "proof" that your opinion on WW and similar addons is incorrect and potentially at this rate bordering on spam and/or misinformation?

You are allowed to have your opinion. Everyone is. You're allowed to THINK addons somehow ruin the integrity of the game. But you're over here time and again presenting these opinions as objective fact. That isn't the case. You're allowed to dislike addons, think they're cheating, think they ruin the game, whatever you want to think. You're allowed to avoid them, as they aren't "mandatory" in that they're NEEDED to play the game. A lot of people like myself find them mandatory in the sense that they actually make the game more enjoyable and easier in numerous ways, but they aren't mandatory in the way you're trying to imply.

And yes, as much as it sucks, people ARE allowed to dictate who they play with. ZOS has NO say in how people decide that. They CANNOT make people want to play with you. They CANNOT force people to leave out X or Y requirements in order to play with you. By your logic of it being ZOS' job to limit "exclusion" (which it is not and never should be), then hey, groups can't require X amount of DPS, X amount of heals, they can't require Tanks/Healers/DPS or specific Gear or Skills that make the content easier for those taking part. All of that excludes someone, right? See how much of a slippery slope that is?

It is not and will never be ZOS' responsibility to police people including others or not. The ONLY time it would be under their jurisdiction is if that exclusion is targeted to troll or harass someone. And no, requiring someone to use an addon isn't targeted harassment or trolling any more than requiring your DPS to do 100k on a parse is. In fact, it's LESS exclusionary because putting on an addon is a choice and not something you need to actually work at doing like having endgame DPS or tanking ability or whatever.

great for PC you got another win and get to keep your favorit toy , sad thing is you all want crossplay so you'll have more players in the game while console playings are leaving the game in masses over the way the games going , but you PC players dont get that YES add-ons has been PC game play for 10+ years for console its been the opposite my friends list has went from having 250 active players a day to just 30-40 and thats having 684 friends that use to play eso 85% daily for upwards of 16 hours ... KEEP GATEKEEPING THE GAME TO JUST PC AND THERE WONT BE PLAYERS FOR CROSSPLAY TO BE NEEDED LOL GOODBYE just like i left the PC community after buying an 3500$ PC for not wanting to run add-ons ill now being doing the same on PSN

It's a long stretch and a hell of a claim to say that WW is someone's favorite toy. I don't use it at all. I'd say my "favorite toy" is either Lazy Writ or PChat. Just because people are telling you that you are indeed wrong about stuff like WW "breaking the ToS/CoC" doesn't mean that thing is anything they remotely like or even use. It's simply people pointing out that your reasoning doesn't line up with what ZOS sees as exploits or otherwise problematic.

People are always leaving this game. People always leave ANY MMO for a number of reasons. I see people on here day in and day out claiming that people are leaving the game in droves, the game is dying, we've all see it time and time again. You claiming you've seen hundreds of people leaving the game over something like addons is, quite frankly, unbelievable. PvP? Probably more likely because a lot of people who enjoy PvP rarely get anything for that game mode so I can see people leaving when their preferred method of play feels stale and/or boring. But your other claims, having almost 700 friends...I hate to tell you this but big numbers doesn't make a claim seem more impressive, it makes it seem implausible. You claim these are "friends" but are those people you actually know personally or just people you see on a list?

Regardless of how valid your claims are, at the end of the day it's not gatekeeping anything. Does it suck if you can't get into a group because you don't want to use something they require? Yes. Are groups allowed to impose restrictions despite how much it sucks to try and ensure they actually get through the content they're pushing for? Also yes.Gatekeeping implies you're being kept from content entirely because of a Guild requiring you to use something you don't want to, but that's not happening. You're only kept from doing things with THAT particular Guild. There are, however, plenty of Guilds that DON'T have that requirement one could join. Like someone else mentioned, if they want to join an Argonian RP Guild but have no Argonian characters, they aren't being gatekept from RP because of that requirement. They just aren't capable of joining THAT specific Guild, and there are plenty of other Guilds that DON'T require them to have an Argonian to join.

There's also another option people have advised you of, which is making your own Guild. Why not take that advice? Make a Guild, specify you won't require addons for any content, do the advertising. If you want things to be a certain way and can't find what you're looking for in what others have made then your best bet isn't going to be going on some war against addons, it's going to be making your own space that fits what you want. You know what they say, be the change you want to see in the world and all that.

i never used how players used WW socially just how it burden them to have to use a add-on that was attacking a system where a score is able to be gotten like leaderboards' and PvP this a big win for add-on developing but hey you all one sided the view to protect what you've had for 10 + year hope the next 10 are as joyful

TheAgentNZ · May 15

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

FlameDark wrote: »

Addons when mandatory are called game mechanics, which ZOS has in the past formed game mechs from popular addons. Thus all Addons are optional, it is pointless to make a poll asking this. This is where my vote lies.

Although I do see the underlying reason why the poll was created and I dont like it. Firstly, if you do not like your raid group demanding a single addon to use while raiding, then don't do anything with that group. Simple. Join another if you can't make your own, that does not require that specific addon. They do exist. I believe in free will, and if a raid leader wants everyone to use a specific addon in their group, or if they want everyone wearing the bucket helmet, hell if they want everyone to use the assassin personality during the raid for extra edge, then they are fully allowed to do it and you do not have to join. That is your right, and that is their right. You choose to not use addons, cool. Good for you. Do not force it on the rest of us. If you feel you are unfairly being held back because you choose to not use addons, that is really not our problem. That is a choice you made. You can absolutely do the exact same thing as everyone with addons while not using them, perhaps if you cant keep up, it is less the addons fault?

Addons are as much a part of the game as the character creation menu. Minion and ESOUI allow players to enhance and custom make their own UI preference through it. It takes a load off of ZOS if the community helps make gameplay improvements that ZOS oversees and can adjust when needed. However, it is totally optional and should remain that way.

So now I am going to be very kind here, and say with as much patience as I can muster. OP, you need to stop.

You have already made a thread about Addons, you have invaded other threads about Addons, and now a poll about addons. I understand it is difficult for you to grasp what it is we are all saying. I know you have read the facts that we have quite firmly told you before about why you are wrong, and you have decided it is nothing more then mindless opinions. You do not care to listen to us, and there is nothing more that we can say or do that can change how you feel. You do not care about anything BUT removing addons from the game, and you firmly believe they are a threat to the game. We get that. Trust me we ALL get that. Your message was loud and clear. However, myself and many others FIRMLY disagree with you on that. But at this point this has now turned into just an emotional vendetta against addons. I don't know what happened that caused such a... dramatic... reaction. But find new guilds if the ones you are in now have caused you to lash out on the forums like this. Addons will remain, Wizards will remain, if you don't like playing a game with addons well... I am sure there is other games that can take up your time. Its harsh, but really there is nothing left to say to you. Accept addons are a thing, or leave. Since I highly doubt that any argument, facts, or Todd Howard himself floating down from the sky to tell you Addons are not the boogie man of ESO and are here to stay would ever convince you otherwise, then you are going to have to have the realization that everything you are trying to do will never work and to either begrudgingly accept this and continue playing, or just dont accept it and either continue to play ESO miserably, or find another MMO that matches your opinion of addons. Either or, that is how this is going to end. As I have said my part, and the OP will not change their stance, I am bowing out of the debate entirely. As this is both exhausting and pointless.

i wasnt going to speak in this poll other than saying sorry for misspelled word in poll but since you want to bring up other post ive made while saying others have SHOWN me proof that what ive been saying is wrong id like to ask you what PROOF not opinions has been SHOWN ??????
ive seen more insults and belittlement then i have PROOF in every post ive made SINCE 1ST day of joining the forum's,

You've been told over and over again by numerous people there's no problem. You've been told by someone who directly spoke with ZOS there's no problem. You've ignored all the proof and instead of admitting you were wrong and letting bygones be bygones, you instead resort to claiming people are "insulting" and "belittling" you.

So are you going to claim now that Kevin coming and telling you in the thread that got closed is also insulting and belittling you? Are you going to claim this somehow isn't "proof" that your opinion on WW and similar addons is incorrect and potentially at this rate bordering on spam and/or misinformation?

You are allowed to have your opinion. Everyone is. You're allowed to THINK addons somehow ruin the integrity of the game. But you're over here time and again presenting these opinions as objective fact. That isn't the case. You're allowed to dislike addons, think they're cheating, think they ruin the game, whatever you want to think. You're allowed to avoid them, as they aren't "mandatory" in that they're NEEDED to play the game. A lot of people like myself find them mandatory in the sense that they actually make the game more enjoyable and easier in numerous ways, but they aren't mandatory in the way you're trying to imply.

And yes, as much as it sucks, people ARE allowed to dictate who they play with. ZOS has NO say in how people decide that. They CANNOT make people want to play with you. They CANNOT force people to leave out X or Y requirements in order to play with you. By your logic of it being ZOS' job to limit "exclusion" (which it is not and never should be), then hey, groups can't require X amount of DPS, X amount of heals, they can't require Tanks/Healers/DPS or specific Gear or Skills that make the content easier for those taking part. All of that excludes someone, right? See how much of a slippery slope that is?

It is not and will never be ZOS' responsibility to police people including others or not. The ONLY time it would be under their jurisdiction is if that exclusion is targeted to troll or harass someone. And no, requiring someone to use an addon isn't targeted harassment or trolling any more than requiring your DPS to do 100k on a parse is. In fact, it's LESS exclusionary because putting on an addon is a choice and not something you need to actually work at doing like having endgame DPS or tanking ability or whatever.

great for PC you got another win and get to keep your favorit toy , sad thing is you all want crossplay so you'll have more players in the game while console playings are leaving the game in masses over the way the games going , but you PC players dont get that YES add-ons has been PC game play for 10+ years for console its been the opposite my friends list has went from having 250 active players a day to just 30-40 and thats having 684 friends that use to play eso 85% daily for upwards of 16 hours ... KEEP GATEKEEPING THE GAME TO JUST PC AND THERE WONT BE PLAYERS FOR CROSSPLAY TO BE NEEDED LOL GOODBYE just like i left the PC community after buying an 3500$ PC for not wanting to run add-ons ill now being doing the same on PSN

It's a long stretch and a hell of a claim to say that WW is someone's favorite toy. I don't use it at all. I'd say my "favorite toy" is either Lazy Writ or PChat. Just because people are telling you that you are indeed wrong about stuff like WW "breaking the ToS/CoC" doesn't mean that thing is anything they remotely like or even use. It's simply people pointing out that your reasoning doesn't line up with what ZOS sees as exploits or otherwise problematic.

People are always leaving this game. People always leave ANY MMO for a number of reasons. I see people on here day in and day out claiming that people are leaving the game in droves, the game is dying, we've all see it time and time again. You claiming you've seen hundreds of people leaving the game over something like addons is, quite frankly, unbelievable. PvP? Probably more likely because a lot of people who enjoy PvP rarely get anything for that game mode so I can see people leaving when their preferred method of play feels stale and/or boring. But your other claims, having almost 700 friends...I hate to tell you this but big numbers doesn't make a claim seem more impressive, it makes it seem implausible. You claim these are "friends" but are those people you actually know personally or just people you see on a list?

Regardless of how valid your claims are, at the end of the day it's not gatekeeping anything. Does it suck if you can't get into a group because you don't want to use something they require? Yes. Are groups allowed to impose restrictions despite how much it sucks to try and ensure they actually get through the content they're pushing for? Also yes.Gatekeeping implies you're being kept from content entirely because of a Guild requiring you to use something you don't want to, but that's not happening. You're only kept from doing things with THAT particular Guild. There are, however, plenty of Guilds that DON'T have that requirement one could join. Like someone else mentioned, if they want to join an Argonian RP Guild but have no Argonian characters, they aren't being gatekept from RP because of that requirement. They just aren't capable of joining THAT specific Guild, and there are plenty of other Guilds that DON'T require them to have an Argonian to join.

There's also another option people have advised you of, which is making your own Guild. Why not take that advice? Make a Guild, specify you won't require addons for any content, do the advertising. If you want things to be a certain way and can't find what you're looking for in what others have made then your best bet isn't going to be going on some war against addons, it's going to be making your own space that fits what you want. You know what they say, be the change you want to see in the world and all that.

i never used how players used WW socially just how it burden them to have to use a add-on that was attacking a system where a score in able to get like leaderboards' and PvP this a big win for add-on developing but hey you all one sided the view to protect what you've had for 10 + year hope the next 10 are as joyful

Just going to put this back here, so everybody who didnt read your other thread on the attack on Wizards Wardrobe, can see ZoS position.

heimdall14_9 · May 15

you have 1 world thats been taught to eat with their left hand and you have another thats been taught to use the other becoming one who gets to speak up then when your being told you can only eat with the right or die off ???

Rohamad_Ali · May 15

optimal

I don't use add-ons. I think add ons should be removed from the game entirely.

heimdall14_9 · May 15

TheAgentNZ wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

FlameDark wrote: »

Addons when mandatory are called game mechanics, which ZOS has in the past formed game mechs from popular addons. Thus all Addons are optional, it is pointless to make a poll asking this. This is where my vote lies.

Although I do see the underlying reason why the poll was created and I dont like it. Firstly, if you do not like your raid group demanding a single addon to use while raiding, then don't do anything with that group. Simple. Join another if you can't make your own, that does not require that specific addon. They do exist. I believe in free will, and if a raid leader wants everyone to use a specific addon in their group, or if they want everyone wearing the bucket helmet, hell if they want everyone to use the assassin personality during the raid for extra edge, then they are fully allowed to do it and you do not have to join. That is your right, and that is their right. You choose to not use addons, cool. Good for you. Do not force it on the rest of us. If you feel you are unfairly being held back because you choose to not use addons, that is really not our problem. That is a choice you made. You can absolutely do the exact same thing as everyone with addons while not using them, perhaps if you cant keep up, it is less the addons fault?

Addons are as much a part of the game as the character creation menu. Minion and ESOUI allow players to enhance and custom make their own UI preference through it. It takes a load off of ZOS if the community helps make gameplay improvements that ZOS oversees and can adjust when needed. However, it is totally optional and should remain that way.

So now I am going to be very kind here, and say with as much patience as I can muster. OP, you need to stop.

You have already made a thread about Addons, you have invaded other threads about Addons, and now a poll about addons. I understand it is difficult for you to grasp what it is we are all saying. I know you have read the facts that we have quite firmly told you before about why you are wrong, and you have decided it is nothing more then mindless opinions. You do not care to listen to us, and there is nothing more that we can say or do that can change how you feel. You do not care about anything BUT removing addons from the game, and you firmly believe they are a threat to the game. We get that. Trust me we ALL get that. Your message was loud and clear. However, myself and many others FIRMLY disagree with you on that. But at this point this has now turned into just an emotional vendetta against addons. I don't know what happened that caused such a... dramatic... reaction. But find new guilds if the ones you are in now have caused you to lash out on the forums like this. Addons will remain, Wizards will remain, if you don't like playing a game with addons well... I am sure there is other games that can take up your time. Its harsh, but really there is nothing left to say to you. Accept addons are a thing, or leave. Since I highly doubt that any argument, facts, or Todd Howard himself floating down from the sky to tell you Addons are not the boogie man of ESO and are here to stay would ever convince you otherwise, then you are going to have to have the realization that everything you are trying to do will never work and to either begrudgingly accept this and continue playing, or just dont accept it and either continue to play ESO miserably, or find another MMO that matches your opinion of addons. Either or, that is how this is going to end. As I have said my part, and the OP will not change their stance, I am bowing out of the debate entirely. As this is both exhausting and pointless.

i wasnt going to speak in this poll other than saying sorry for misspelled word in poll but since you want to bring up other post ive made while saying others have SHOWN me proof that what ive been saying is wrong id like to ask you what PROOF not opinions has been SHOWN ??????
ive seen more insults and belittlement then i have PROOF in every post ive made SINCE 1ST day of joining the forum's,

You've been told over and over again by numerous people there's no problem. You've been told by someone who directly spoke with ZOS there's no problem. You've ignored all the proof and instead of admitting you were wrong and letting bygones be bygones, you instead resort to claiming people are "insulting" and "belittling" you.

So are you going to claim now that Kevin coming and telling you in the thread that got closed is also insulting and belittling you? Are you going to claim this somehow isn't "proof" that your opinion on WW and similar addons is incorrect and potentially at this rate bordering on spam and/or misinformation?

You are allowed to have your opinion. Everyone is. You're allowed to THINK addons somehow ruin the integrity of the game. But you're over here time and again presenting these opinions as objective fact. That isn't the case. You're allowed to dislike addons, think they're cheating, think they ruin the game, whatever you want to think. You're allowed to avoid them, as they aren't "mandatory" in that they're NEEDED to play the game. A lot of people like myself find them mandatory in the sense that they actually make the game more enjoyable and easier in numerous ways, but they aren't mandatory in the way you're trying to imply.

And yes, as much as it sucks, people ARE allowed to dictate who they play with. ZOS has NO say in how people decide that. They CANNOT make people want to play with you. They CANNOT force people to leave out X or Y requirements in order to play with you. By your logic of it being ZOS' job to limit "exclusion" (which it is not and never should be), then hey, groups can't require X amount of DPS, X amount of heals, they can't require Tanks/Healers/DPS or specific Gear or Skills that make the content easier for those taking part. All of that excludes someone, right? See how much of a slippery slope that is?

It is not and will never be ZOS' responsibility to police people including others or not. The ONLY time it would be under their jurisdiction is if that exclusion is targeted to troll or harass someone. And no, requiring someone to use an addon isn't targeted harassment or trolling any more than requiring your DPS to do 100k on a parse is. In fact, it's LESS exclusionary because putting on an addon is a choice and not something you need to actually work at doing like having endgame DPS or tanking ability or whatever.

great for PC you got another win and get to keep your favorit toy , sad thing is you all want crossplay so you'll have more players in the game while console playings are leaving the game in masses over the way the games going , but you PC players dont get that YES add-ons has been PC game play for 10+ years for console its been the opposite my friends list has went from having 250 active players a day to just 30-40 and thats having 684 friends that use to play eso 85% daily for upwards of 16 hours ... KEEP GATEKEEPING THE GAME TO JUST PC AND THERE WONT BE PLAYERS FOR CROSSPLAY TO BE NEEDED LOL GOODBYE just like i left the PC community after buying an 3500$ PC for not wanting to run add-ons ill now being doing the same on PSN

It's a long stretch and a hell of a claim to say that WW is someone's favorite toy. I don't use it at all. I'd say my "favorite toy" is either Lazy Writ or PChat. Just because people are telling you that you are indeed wrong about stuff like WW "breaking the ToS/CoC" doesn't mean that thing is anything they remotely like or even use. It's simply people pointing out that your reasoning doesn't line up with what ZOS sees as exploits or otherwise problematic.

People are always leaving this game. People always leave ANY MMO for a number of reasons. I see people on here day in and day out claiming that people are leaving the game in droves, the game is dying, we've all see it time and time again. You claiming you've seen hundreds of people leaving the game over something like addons is, quite frankly, unbelievable. PvP? Probably more likely because a lot of people who enjoy PvP rarely get anything for that game mode so I can see people leaving when their preferred method of play feels stale and/or boring. But your other claims, having almost 700 friends...I hate to tell you this but big numbers doesn't make a claim seem more impressive, it makes it seem implausible. You claim these are "friends" but are those people you actually know personally or just people you see on a list?

Regardless of how valid your claims are, at the end of the day it's not gatekeeping anything. Does it suck if you can't get into a group because you don't want to use something they require? Yes. Are groups allowed to impose restrictions despite how much it sucks to try and ensure they actually get through the content they're pushing for? Also yes.Gatekeeping implies you're being kept from content entirely because of a Guild requiring you to use something you don't want to, but that's not happening. You're only kept from doing things with THAT particular Guild. There are, however, plenty of Guilds that DON'T have that requirement one could join. Like someone else mentioned, if they want to join an Argonian RP Guild but have no Argonian characters, they aren't being gatekept from RP because of that requirement. They just aren't capable of joining THAT specific Guild, and there are plenty of other Guilds that DON'T require them to have an Argonian to join.

There's also another option people have advised you of, which is making your own Guild. Why not take that advice? Make a Guild, specify you won't require addons for any content, do the advertising. If you want things to be a certain way and can't find what you're looking for in what others have made then your best bet isn't going to be going on some war against addons, it's going to be making your own space that fits what you want. You know what they say, be the change you want to see in the world and all that.

i never used how players used WW socially just how it burden them to have to use a add-on that was attacking a system where a score in able to get like leaderboards' and PvP this a big win for add-on developing but hey you all one sided the view to protect what you've had for 10 + year hope the next 10 are as joyful

Just going to put this back here, so everybody who didnt read your other thread on the attack on Wizards Wardrobe, can see ZoS position.

you post your victory flag but do you show the arugement??? i was urging that add-on shouldnt be able to efect scoring content like leaderboards and pvp while at the same placing a burden on the player or system's with greater focus on the pve side rather pvp

heimdall14_9 · May 15

Blood_again wrote: »

OP, before this topic turns to a complete drama,
what was the purpose of this poll?

I'm really interested. Thank you.
And whatever was the purpose, I hope you've reached it.

to see how many worldly players there was as anyone whos played from one platform to the next has seen the worldly differences in each platforms like myself i could never speack on how it is on xbox as ive never played there i just can talk about psn and PC as ive played in both world's , but i see players cant take themselves out of something they never seen and look at it with a open eye now that i see its mainly 1 platform where players call home like myself tho i play psn/pc na/eu i always point out i main psn na, add-ons have been forced onto players that for 10 years has had none not wanted any and enjoyed the game for what it was

Dojohoda · May 15

optimal

It's all optional until it's not. Even then, you still have options.

frogthroat · May 15

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

TheAgentNZ wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

FlameDark wrote: »

Addons when mandatory are called game mechanics, which ZOS has in the past formed game mechs from popular addons. Thus all Addons are optional, it is pointless to make a poll asking this. This is where my vote lies.

Although I do see the underlying reason why the poll was created and I dont like it. Firstly, if you do not like your raid group demanding a single addon to use while raiding, then don't do anything with that group. Simple. Join another if you can't make your own, that does not require that specific addon. They do exist. I believe in free will, and if a raid leader wants everyone to use a specific addon in their group, or if they want everyone wearing the bucket helmet, hell if they want everyone to use the assassin personality during the raid for extra edge, then they are fully allowed to do it and you do not have to join. That is your right, and that is their right. You choose to not use addons, cool. Good for you. Do not force it on the rest of us. If you feel you are unfairly being held back because you choose to not use addons, that is really not our problem. That is a choice you made. You can absolutely do the exact same thing as everyone with addons while not using them, perhaps if you cant keep up, it is less the addons fault?

Addons are as much a part of the game as the character creation menu. Minion and ESOUI allow players to enhance and custom make their own UI preference through it. It takes a load off of ZOS if the community helps make gameplay improvements that ZOS oversees and can adjust when needed. However, it is totally optional and should remain that way.

So now I am going to be very kind here, and say with as much patience as I can muster. OP, you need to stop.

You have already made a thread about Addons, you have invaded other threads about Addons, and now a poll about addons. I understand it is difficult for you to grasp what it is we are all saying. I know you have read the facts that we have quite firmly told you before about why you are wrong, and you have decided it is nothing more then mindless opinions. You do not care to listen to us, and there is nothing more that we can say or do that can change how you feel. You do not care about anything BUT removing addons from the game, and you firmly believe they are a threat to the game. We get that. Trust me we ALL get that. Your message was loud and clear. However, myself and many others FIRMLY disagree with you on that. But at this point this has now turned into just an emotional vendetta against addons. I don't know what happened that caused such a... dramatic... reaction. But find new guilds if the ones you are in now have caused you to lash out on the forums like this. Addons will remain, Wizards will remain, if you don't like playing a game with addons well... I am sure there is other games that can take up your time. Its harsh, but really there is nothing left to say to you. Accept addons are a thing, or leave. Since I highly doubt that any argument, facts, or Todd Howard himself floating down from the sky to tell you Addons are not the boogie man of ESO and are here to stay would ever convince you otherwise, then you are going to have to have the realization that everything you are trying to do will never work and to either begrudgingly accept this and continue playing, or just dont accept it and either continue to play ESO miserably, or find another MMO that matches your opinion of addons. Either or, that is how this is going to end. As I have said my part, and the OP will not change their stance, I am bowing out of the debate entirely. As this is both exhausting and pointless.

i wasnt going to speak in this poll other than saying sorry for misspelled word in poll but since you want to bring up other post ive made while saying others have SHOWN me proof that what ive been saying is wrong id like to ask you what PROOF not opinions has been SHOWN ??????
ive seen more insults and belittlement then i have PROOF in every post ive made SINCE 1ST day of joining the forum's,

You've been told over and over again by numerous people there's no problem. You've been told by someone who directly spoke with ZOS there's no problem. You've ignored all the proof and instead of admitting you were wrong and letting bygones be bygones, you instead resort to claiming people are "insulting" and "belittling" you.

So are you going to claim now that Kevin coming and telling you in the thread that got closed is also insulting and belittling you? Are you going to claim this somehow isn't "proof" that your opinion on WW and similar addons is incorrect and potentially at this rate bordering on spam and/or misinformation?

You are allowed to have your opinion. Everyone is. You're allowed to THINK addons somehow ruin the integrity of the game. But you're over here time and again presenting these opinions as objective fact. That isn't the case. You're allowed to dislike addons, think they're cheating, think they ruin the game, whatever you want to think. You're allowed to avoid them, as they aren't "mandatory" in that they're NEEDED to play the game. A lot of people like myself find them mandatory in the sense that they actually make the game more enjoyable and easier in numerous ways, but they aren't mandatory in the way you're trying to imply.

And yes, as much as it sucks, people ARE allowed to dictate who they play with. ZOS has NO say in how people decide that. They CANNOT make people want to play with you. They CANNOT force people to leave out X or Y requirements in order to play with you. By your logic of it being ZOS' job to limit "exclusion" (which it is not and never should be), then hey, groups can't require X amount of DPS, X amount of heals, they can't require Tanks/Healers/DPS or specific Gear or Skills that make the content easier for those taking part. All of that excludes someone, right? See how much of a slippery slope that is?

It is not and will never be ZOS' responsibility to police people including others or not. The ONLY time it would be under their jurisdiction is if that exclusion is targeted to troll or harass someone. And no, requiring someone to use an addon isn't targeted harassment or trolling any more than requiring your DPS to do 100k on a parse is. In fact, it's LESS exclusionary because putting on an addon is a choice and not something you need to actually work at doing like having endgame DPS or tanking ability or whatever.

great for PC you got another win and get to keep your favorit toy , sad thing is you all want crossplay so you'll have more players in the game while console playings are leaving the game in masses over the way the games going , but you PC players dont get that YES add-ons has been PC game play for 10+ years for console its been the opposite my friends list has went from having 250 active players a day to just 30-40 and thats having 684 friends that use to play eso 85% daily for upwards of 16 hours ... KEEP GATEKEEPING THE GAME TO JUST PC AND THERE WONT BE PLAYERS FOR CROSSPLAY TO BE NEEDED LOL GOODBYE just like i left the PC community after buying an 3500$ PC for not wanting to run add-ons ill now being doing the same on PSN

It's a long stretch and a hell of a claim to say that WW is someone's favorite toy. I don't use it at all. I'd say my "favorite toy" is either Lazy Writ or PChat. Just because people are telling you that you are indeed wrong about stuff like WW "breaking the ToS/CoC" doesn't mean that thing is anything they remotely like or even use. It's simply people pointing out that your reasoning doesn't line up with what ZOS sees as exploits or otherwise problematic.

People are always leaving this game. People always leave ANY MMO for a number of reasons. I see people on here day in and day out claiming that people are leaving the game in droves, the game is dying, we've all see it time and time again. You claiming you've seen hundreds of people leaving the game over something like addons is, quite frankly, unbelievable. PvP? Probably more likely because a lot of people who enjoy PvP rarely get anything for that game mode so I can see people leaving when their preferred method of play feels stale and/or boring. But your other claims, having almost 700 friends...I hate to tell you this but big numbers doesn't make a claim seem more impressive, it makes it seem implausible. You claim these are "friends" but are those people you actually know personally or just people you see on a list?

Regardless of how valid your claims are, at the end of the day it's not gatekeeping anything. Does it suck if you can't get into a group because you don't want to use something they require? Yes. Are groups allowed to impose restrictions despite how much it sucks to try and ensure they actually get through the content they're pushing for? Also yes.Gatekeeping implies you're being kept from content entirely because of a Guild requiring you to use something you don't want to, but that's not happening. You're only kept from doing things with THAT particular Guild. There are, however, plenty of Guilds that DON'T have that requirement one could join. Like someone else mentioned, if they want to join an Argonian RP Guild but have no Argonian characters, they aren't being gatekept from RP because of that requirement. They just aren't capable of joining THAT specific Guild, and there are plenty of other Guilds that DON'T require them to have an Argonian to join.

There's also another option people have advised you of, which is making your own Guild. Why not take that advice? Make a Guild, specify you won't require addons for any content, do the advertising. If you want things to be a certain way and can't find what you're looking for in what others have made then your best bet isn't going to be going on some war against addons, it's going to be making your own space that fits what you want. You know what they say, be the change you want to see in the world and all that.

i never used how players used WW socially just how it burden them to have to use a add-on that was attacking a system where a score in able to get like leaderboards' and PvP this a big win for add-on developing but hey you all one sided the view to protect what you've had for 10 + year hope the next 10 are as joyful

Just going to put this back here, so everybody who didnt read your other thread on the attack on Wizards Wardrobe, can see ZoS position.

you post your victory flag but do you show the arugement??? i was urging that add-on shouldnt be able to efect scoring content like leaderboards and pvp while at the same placing a burden on the player or system's with greater focus on the pve side rather pvp

The argument is irrelevant after ZOS' conclusive answer.

DoofusMax · May 15

optimal

Considering that ZOS' position is that the addon is not cheating and does not violate TOS, there are options, but they mostly boil down to "play the game you have or don't". The "don't" side is pretty straightforward, but the "play the game you have" mostly comes down to either "doing as others do" (it's an arms race at its core), "git gud enough to where you succeed without it," or "stop worrying so much over leaderboard stuff." I've adopted the latter. You were top of the leaderboard? Yay! Good on ya. That and a couple of bucks will get you a McCafe tomorrow morning.

wolfie1.0. · May 15

optimal

tomofhyrule wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SANGUARI wrote: »

EDIT: So it looks like this guy plays on PS4 and cannot install addons, so now he is trying to take them away from everybody else. He keeps creating posts nonstop xD

OP plays on PS5 and can install them. OP has also successfully completed leaderboard content in the past. He doesn't want to. It's his friends and guildmates that can't. And some who won't.

I don't agree it should be removed. But I know I prefer not to be misunderstood so I'm just clarifying since they already posted about it.

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

while for starters when i switched over to PC and hit 160cp i joined a raid group after getting VSS, VCR+2, VAS+3 and VMoL and being 3rd average dps for my group i was kicked out soloy because i refused to get add-ons , then when they came to psn 1/2 my friends left the game because they was ps4 users , then after that and other 1/4 slowly one by one left because they to like myself wouldnt use add-ons ... that how i know players are being kicked out of guilds players are being left out of run due to add-ons

In that case, this entire poll is disingenuous. Which many of us thought from the beginning.

ZOS cannot force players to install addons. They are by definition optional. But they also cannot force groups who require addons to take players who choose not to use them.

If you have a problem with players building groups their way, you are perfectly at liberty to make your own groups which do not have those requirements.

And - as has also been pointed out by many previously - obsolete hardware is holding the game back. ZOS has directly said that they are either not giving players sone things they want (increased housing limits) or even breaking some things in game (the animation optimization pass, which led to some broken animations that are even being talked about on the front page) because of memory requirements. ESO may have a minimum requirement of 4GB RAM, but even the recommended is 8GB… and last-gen consoles only have a total of 8GB which includes half of it supporting the OS.
At some point, it has to be accepted that playing a game on outdated hardware will lead to a decreased quality of game.

To be fair to the OP the request that has been made to ZOS is that certian addons that have been required are ones that live on the edges of what is and what isn't allowed by ZOS.

And also to be fair to the OP, there is a point. It actually wouldn't take a whole lot of changes to and addon like Wizards Wardrobe to put it over said edge. Whether its through the mod author pushing something or ZOS being subjective about it.

And yes that addon does push the edge.

heimdall14_9 · May 15

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SANGUARI wrote: »

EDIT: So it looks like this guy plays on PS4 and cannot install addons, so now he is trying to take them away from everybody else. He keeps creating posts nonstop xD

OP plays on PS5 and can install them. OP has also successfully completed leaderboard content in the past. He doesn't want to. It's his friends and guildmates that can't. And some who won't.

I don't agree it should be removed. But I know I prefer not to be misunderstood so I'm just clarifying since they already posted about it.

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

while for starters when i switched over to PC and hit 160cp i joined a raid group after getting VSS, VCR+2, VAS+3 and VMoL and being 3rd average dps for my group i was kicked out soloy because i refused to get add-ons , then when they came to psn 1/2 my friends left the game because they was ps4 users , then after that and other 1/4 slowly one by one left because they to like myself wouldnt use add-ons ... that how i know players are being kicked out of guilds players are being left out of run due to add-ons

In that case, this entire poll is disingenuous. Which many of us thought from the beginning.

ZOS cannot force players to install addons. They are by definition optional. But they also cannot force groups who require addons to take players who choose not to use them.

If you have a problem with players building groups their way, you are perfectly at liberty to make your own groups which do not have those requirements.

And - as has also been pointed out by many previously - obsolete hardware is holding the game back. ZOS has directly said that they are either not giving players sone things they want (increased housing limits) or even breaking some things in game (the animation optimization pass, which led to some broken animations that are even being talked about on the front page) because of memory requirements. ESO may have a minimum requirement of 4GB RAM, but even the recommended is 8GB… and last-gen consoles only have a total of 8GB which includes half of it supporting the OS.
At some point, it has to be accepted that playing a game on outdated hardware will lead to a decreased quality of game.

To be fair to the OP the request that has been made to ZOS is that certian addons that have been required are ones that live on the edges of what is and what isn't allowed by ZOS.

And also to be fair to the OP, there is a point. It actually wouldn't take a whole lot of changes to and addon like Wizards Wardrobe to put it over said edge. Whether its through the mod author pushing something or ZOS being subjective about it.

And yes that addon does push the edge.

it was called out by the players as to why zos could not add a system like UI respec into the game

M0R_Gaming · May 15

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

And also to be fair to the OP, there is a point. It actually wouldn't take a whole lot of changes to and addon like Wizards Wardrobe to put it over said edge. Whether its through the mod author pushing something or ZOS being subjective about it.

And yes that addon does push the edge.

The issue with this statement is that it is impossible for wizards to be pushed over the "edge", since zenimax limits their API to what they allow. In terms of wizards, it is limited to the same restrictions that you yourself are limited to, which is equipping gear and changing skills. It doesn't allow for respeccing builds in raids, or anything which zenimax doesn't allow the user to do (because it physically can't do those things).

Even if it did somehow slip through, it would be removed by the esoui addon community, like what happened when hodor reflexes added a button that the raidlead could press to stop all dps abilities - the esoui community forced a revert of that, and the UI developers at ZOS were made aware of it.
Or more recently, the whole Console Market Blacklisting fiasco, where someone silently blocked people from being able to sell their items (by hiding listings in the UI). The esoui community brought it up to the Zenimax UI developers, and the person responsible was permanently banned as well as their addons taken down.

karthrag_inak · 3:49AM

This is at least the third thread you have started on this same topic, after the other 2 were closed. How often is this going to be allowed?

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

i never used how players used WW socially just how it burden them to have to use a add-on that was attacking a system where a score is able to be gotten like leaderboards' and PvP this a big win for add-on developing but hey you all one sided the view to protect what you've had for 10 + year hope the next 10 are as joyful

Tallon_IV · 4:21AM

karthrag_inak wrote: »

This is at least the third thread you have started on this same topic, after the other 2 were closed. How often is this going to be allowed?

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

i never used how players used WW socially just how it burden them to have to use a add-on that was attacking a system where a score is able to be gotten like leaderboards' and PvP this a big win for add-on developing but hey you all one sided the view to protect what you've had for 10 + year hope the next 10 are as joyful

Thankfully the last one now that he's banned.

Arunei · 7:32AM

I don't know if this counts as discussing bans but I genuinely had the feeling that was going to be how this ended after I first saw this thread getting put up after the last one had been closed.

At any rate...yeah addons are all optional. Even if a certain group or Guild requires use of X or Y for efficiency, there are plenty others that don't one could find. Though the Guild Finder really needs an ability to like...search for key words in Guild descriptions, search by name, search in general...it's very hhhhhh the way it is now.