eso add-ons should be optional or mandatory???

Gabriel_H · May 14

Some addons are optional (those coded by not ZOS), some are mandatory (

LootAllTheStuff wrote: »

Regarding the leaderboard thing, I wonder if it's possible for ZOS to simply implement add-ons and no add-ons versions? It would be interesting to me to see how much of a difference it makes in actual practice.

It would be a waste of ZOS' resources. However, it would be amusing for trial groups to see that you don't actually need to swap gear from trash to boss and back again, and the time saved is miniscule.

You also have to remember that outside ZOS written addons are not the only addons in the game. The default UI, menus, inventory etc all all addons - they were just written by ZOS.

SilverBride · May 14

optimal

Why would they be mandatory? There are a multitude of add-ons out there. I can't even imagine being forced to use them all.

wolfie1.0. · May 14

optimal

No addons are not and should not be required to play the game.

The underlying problem with addons is that they are voluntary work and maintaining addons players like to use is a chore. Some popular addons have changed owner 5 to 6 times now.

And when one makes a change they want to make and others hate they get harassed for it.

As for requiring addons to complete content... well everyone has the freedom of association. I dont want to be forced to play a certain way and neither should you. This means though that if you dont like some people's requirements then someone has to compromise.

A good example, I dont swear, I dont like swearing, I dont like it when people swear around me.

I understand that not everyone shares my standards or line of thinking so either I compromise and let people swear, I ask people to respect it, or if neither is an option at the moment it go do my own thing.

Life is full of compromises... deal with it.

bofh666 · May 14

optimal

hard to choose... but i voted for "optimal" in the end

sleepy_worm · May 14

There are many things that should be base game content, such as a mini-map. But the base game mini-map should also have options tied to it, so you could hide it if you want.

I guess that means optional?

frogthroat · May 14

Addons are and will always be optional. If ZOS would make any addon mandatory, they would incorporate it in the game itself, and then it would not be an addon but part of the gameplay.

What they will not do is make any 3rd party addon mandatory, because that would mean they need to take responsibility of said addon. And they do not want to implement any check, verification, approval, or screening process to addons. They reserve the right to check the addons but they do not accept any kind of responsibility of them.

There is no possible method to make them mandatory.

Players, however, can choose to use addons or not. Some groups can agree that for this content some addons are a requirement. They are free to make whatever rules for their group as they like. You have then the freedom to choose to either accept what that group's requirements are, or not play with them. That is none of ZOS' business.

tmbrinks · May 14

Addons are inherently optional for the game itself.

However, depending on the group, there may be additional requirements for that group to require the use of some, depending on the group's goals. If a player doesn't agree with those requirements, it's up to that individual player to decide if that requirement is a non-starter for them as to whether or not they run with that group.

A player that does not want to use add-ons is (and always has been) free to create their own group that fits their parameters.

The Elder Scrolls franchise has always been built upon being modifiable, being able to adjust the UI and other settings to your liking to enhance your gameplay. The vanilla ESO UI is extremely bare, and would be virtually unplayable without many of the addons that the addon authors spend countless hours (mostly unpaid) to provide for the community.

Aydh · May 14

optimal

if addons were mandatory, they would be built into the game. </shrug>

Sordidfairytale · May 14

mandatory

Mandatory, if we're not playing the game the same way we're all wrong.

LesserCircle · May 14

optimal

Addons are optional, joining groups is also optional and you can form your own with your own rules also as an option.

ToddIngram · May 14

optimal

Optional ....and optimal both. (sorry, couldn't resist)

Cominfordatoothbrush · May 14

optimal

I voted optional, but, it's unclear what you actually mean by this? Every mech in the game should be possible to do without addons, but that's already the case. Whether or not the raid lead requires it, is completely up to that raid lead, and also depends on the level of seriousness of the group/what the goal is

Like if someone dies in a fun/farming run,ehh who cares. But if they're throwing to the same mech repeatedly in a serious prog and won't use an addon that would give a heads up that the mech is happening, I think it's valid to replace that person on the roster

Alp · May 14

As long as everything in the game is doable without addons, they are optional/optimal. Whether something is less annoying to do without them, though, is another question.

But what OP wants to hear is that addons should be banned if they can assist in niche content where it becomes "mandatory" for optimal time-based challenges that a tiny minority of players are very vocal about, to validate their incessant spam of anti-addon posts.
I say rather, remove any time-based content, leave that for third-party speed-running websites. It just stresses me out, but that's, of course, just my opinion.

DoofusMax · May 14

optimal

There probably are endgame groups out there who view addons as mandatory. For example, you can't get a dummy parse without addons and those parses are required to participate in many vet-oriented groups. But viewing something as mandatory for group participation and actually being mandatory to play are two different things.

That out of the way, there are many aspects of the game where addons assist with optimizing my play time, so I'll go with "optimal" as being the preferable choice.

SANGUARI · May 14

Bro plays on PlayStation and is out here starting a holy war against PC addons, it is actually hilarious. xD

Alp · May 14

SANGUARI wrote: »

Bro plays on PlayStation and is out here starting a holy war against PC addons, it is actually hilarious. xD

It's hard not to look isn't it?

LunaFlora · May 14

SANGUARI wrote: »

Bro plays on PlayStation and is out here starting a holy war against PC addons, it is actually hilarious. xD

heimdall plays on both Playstation and PC.

edited to add:
and Wizard's Wardrobe is on Playstation 5.

as far as i understand it:
Heimdall is against the add-on due to believing it goes against the add-on rules and that it is unfair in Leaderboards to people that do not use the add-on.

spartaxoxo · May 14

optimal

LunaFlora wrote: »

SANGUARI wrote: »

Bro plays on PlayStation and is out here starting a holy war against PC addons, it is actually hilarious. xD

heimdall plays on both Playstation and PC.

edited to add:
and Wizard's Wardrobe is on Playstation 5.

as far as i understand it:
Heimdall is against the add-on due to believing it goes against the add-on rules and that it is unfair in Leaderboards to people that do not use the add-on.

Also he lost friends/guildies because those other players were on PS4 and excluded from trials groups because the PS4 cannot install add-ons. So, PS5 players have a significant advantage over PS4 players in leaderboard content. So it's not the case that everyone can install the add-on on PlayStation.

SANGUARI · May 14

I saw his screenshots, mostly on PS, and he is super against WizardWardrobe addons. I do not want to equip my gear one by one. I have automatic swapping for Pale Order, Wild Hunt, and other sets, and it makes my life much easier. If you have enough Armory Slots, you can also do this with one key, by the way. Lowkey, he wants pay-to-win instead, but I do not think he is aware of it.

Just because this guy finds it unfair, he keeps creating 3 different polls. I am watching it lol.

Already I am afraid cross-play will kill addons, and then goodbye from me too. I would probably quit at that point, because honestly I am already frustrated with the game.

Also, if someone is seriously pushing for leaderboard scores, people are obviously using addons. At that point it is a competitive game, and everyone on the leaderboard is probably happy to have the help those addons provide.

EDIT: So it looks like this guy plays on PS4 and cannot install addons, so now he is trying to take them away from everybody else. He keeps creating posts nonstop xD

spartaxoxo · May 14

optimal

SANGUARI wrote: »

EDIT: So it looks like this guy plays on PS4 and cannot install addons, so now he is trying to take them away from everybody else. He keeps creating posts nonstop xD

OP plays on PS5 and can install them. OP has also successfully completed leaderboard content in the past. He doesn't want to. It's his friends and guildmates that can't. And some who won't.

I don't agree it should be removed. But I know I prefer not to be misunderstood so I'm just clarifying since they already posted about it.

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

while for starters when i switched over to PC and hit 160cp i joined a raid group after getting VSS, VCR+2, VAS+3 and VMoL and being 3rd average dps for my group i was kicked out soloy because i refused to get add-ons , then when they came to psn 1/2 my friends left the game because they was ps4 users , then after that and other 1/4 slowly one by one left because they to like myself wouldnt use add-ons ... that how i know players are being kicked out of guilds players are being left out of run due to add-ons

frogthroat · May 14

LunaFlora wrote: »

as far as i understand it:
Heimdall is against the add-on due to believing it goes against the add-on rules and that it is unfair in Leaderboards to people that do not use the add-on.

I understand it slightly differently. He has said many times he is very fast with manually swapping gear and views it as an integral part of the game. To him, that is an inseparable part of the dungeon/trial run and he is rather fast with that. And addon makes his acquired skill obsolete and that is the problem.

I can understand that, since I have had a naked tank for quite some time now (not even weapons in hand) - pretty much since Arcanist came out. Now that we can hide all clothes it diminishes the glory of completing a vet dungeon or a normal trial naked, since you can't visually be sure if I am truly without gear. But I wouldn't want to stop the mechanism of hiding gear just for me liking my naked tank. I don't like the function being there, but such is life.

The difference between us is that I can live with it. He is unwilling to switch from his obsolete method he has mastered to a better one. And if no one has the new method, it gives him the edge.

tomofhyrule · May 14

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SANGUARI wrote: »

EDIT: So it looks like this guy plays on PS4 and cannot install addons, so now he is trying to take them away from everybody else. He keeps creating posts nonstop xD

OP plays on PS5 and can install them. OP has also successfully completed leaderboard content in the past. He doesn't want to. It's his friends and guildmates that can't. And some who won't.

I don't agree it should be removed. But I know I prefer not to be misunderstood so I'm just clarifying since they already posted about it.

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

while for starters when i switched over to PC and hit 160cp i joined a raid group after getting VSS, VCR+2, VAS+3 and VMoL and being 3rd average dps for my group i was kicked out soloy because i refused to get add-ons , then when they came to psn 1/2 my friends left the game because they was ps4 users , then after that and other 1/4 slowly one by one left because they to like myself wouldnt use add-ons ... that how i know players are being kicked out of guilds players are being left out of run due to add-ons

In that case, this entire poll is disingenuous. Which many of us thought from the beginning.

ZOS cannot force players to install addons. They are by definition optional. But they also cannot force groups who require addons to take players who choose not to use them.

If you have a problem with players building groups their way, you are perfectly at liberty to make your own groups which do not have those requirements.

And - as has also been pointed out by many previously - obsolete hardware is holding the game back. ZOS has directly said that they are either not giving players sone things they want (increased housing limits) or even breaking some things in game (the animation optimization pass, which led to some broken animations that are even being talked about on the front page) because of memory requirements. ESO may have a minimum requirement of 4GB RAM, but even the recommended is 8GB… and last-gen consoles only have a total of 8GB which includes half of it supporting the OS.
At some point, it has to be accepted that playing a game on outdated hardware will lead to a decreased quality of game.

frogthroat · May 14

tomofhyrule wrote: »

But they also cannot force groups who require addons to take players who choose not to use them.

Why not? My mom made me and my friend play with my little brother all the time, even if we didn't want to.

heimdall14_9 · May 14

where as its not zos job to force someone play with you it is their job to limit the things players can use to dismiss others over

Reginald_leBlem · May 14

optimal

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

where as its not zos job to force someone play with you it is their job to limit the things players can use to dismiss others over

How on earth did you reach this conclusion?

frogthroat · May 14

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

where as its not zos job to force someone play with you it is their job to limit the things players can use to dismiss others over

Why is it their job to dictate what is and isn't an acceptable requirement for individuals to form a group?

I used to be in an Argonian rp guild. Should zos force that guild to accept players who refuse to make an Argonoan character?

I am in a solo player guild revolving around PO, where the requirement is to post a picture you have PO. Should zos force them to accept people who don't have PO?

heimdall14_9 · May 14

Reginald_leBlem wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

where as its not zos job to force someone play with you it is their job to limit the things players can use to dismiss others over

How on earth did you reach this conclusion?

read their community standards and you will see how , but like their ToS , add-on terms, and CoC they have the right to pick and choose what they enforce and from everything i seen since joining the forum's as a PSN player they favor things that the PC players want / see if in the game while not caring about their players on console who have been playing this game in a totally different way for 10+ years

Arunei · May 14

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

FlameDark wrote: »

Addons when mandatory are called game mechanics, which ZOS has in the past formed game mechs from popular addons. Thus all Addons are optional, it is pointless to make a poll asking this. This is where my vote lies.

Although I do see the underlying reason why the poll was created and I dont like it. Firstly, if you do not like your raid group demanding a single addon to use while raiding, then don't do anything with that group. Simple. Join another if you can't make your own, that does not require that specific addon. They do exist. I believe in free will, and if a raid leader wants everyone to use a specific addon in their group, or if they want everyone wearing the bucket helmet, hell if they want everyone to use the assassin personality during the raid for extra edge, then they are fully allowed to do it and you do not have to join. That is your right, and that is their right. You choose to not use addons, cool. Good for you. Do not force it on the rest of us. If you feel you are unfairly being held back because you choose to not use addons, that is really not our problem. That is a choice you made. You can absolutely do the exact same thing as everyone with addons while not using them, perhaps if you cant keep up, it is less the addons fault?

Addons are as much a part of the game as the character creation menu. Minion and ESOUI allow players to enhance and custom make their own UI preference through it. It takes a load off of ZOS if the community helps make gameplay improvements that ZOS oversees and can adjust when needed. However, it is totally optional and should remain that way.

So now I am going to be very kind here, and say with as much patience as I can muster. OP, you need to stop.

You have already made a thread about Addons, you have invaded other threads about Addons, and now a poll about addons. I understand it is difficult for you to grasp what it is we are all saying. I know you have read the facts that we have quite firmly told you before about why you are wrong, and you have decided it is nothing more then mindless opinions. You do not care to listen to us, and there is nothing more that we can say or do that can change how you feel. You do not care about anything BUT removing addons from the game, and you firmly believe they are a threat to the game. We get that. Trust me we ALL get that. Your message was loud and clear. However, myself and many others FIRMLY disagree with you on that. But at this point this has now turned into just an emotional vendetta against addons. I don't know what happened that caused such a... dramatic... reaction. But find new guilds if the ones you are in now have caused you to lash out on the forums like this. Addons will remain, Wizards will remain, if you don't like playing a game with addons well... I am sure there is other games that can take up your time. Its harsh, but really there is nothing left to say to you. Accept addons are a thing, or leave. Since I highly doubt that any argument, facts, or Todd Howard himself floating down from the sky to tell you Addons are not the boogie man of ESO and are here to stay would ever convince you otherwise, then you are going to have to have the realization that everything you are trying to do will never work and to either begrudgingly accept this and continue playing, or just dont accept it and either continue to play ESO miserably, or find another MMO that matches your opinion of addons. Either or, that is how this is going to end. As I have said my part, and the OP will not change their stance, I am bowing out of the debate entirely. As this is both exhausting and pointless.

i wasnt going to speak in this poll other than saying sorry for misspelled word in poll but since you want to bring up other post ive made while saying others have SHOWN me proof that what ive been saying is wrong id like to ask you what PROOF not opinions has been SHOWN ??????
ive seen more insults and belittlement then i have PROOF in every post ive made SINCE 1ST day of joining the forum's,

You've been told over and over again by numerous people there's no problem. You've been told by someone who directly spoke with ZOS there's no problem. You've ignored all the proof and instead of admitting you were wrong and letting bygones be bygones, you instead resort to claiming people are "insulting" and "belittling" you.

So are you going to claim now that Kevin coming and telling you in the thread that got closed is also insulting and belittling you? Are you going to claim this somehow isn't "proof" that your opinion on WW and similar addons is incorrect and potentially at this rate bordering on spam and/or misinformation?

You are allowed to have your opinion. Everyone is. You're allowed to THINK addons somehow ruin the integrity of the game. But you're over here time and again presenting these opinions as objective fact. That isn't the case. You're allowed to dislike addons, think they're cheating, think they ruin the game, whatever you want to think. You're allowed to avoid them, as they aren't "mandatory" in that they're NEEDED to play the game. A lot of people like myself find them mandatory in the sense that they actually make the game more enjoyable and easier in numerous ways, but they aren't mandatory in the way you're trying to imply.

And yes, as much as it sucks, people ARE allowed to dictate who they play with. ZOS has NO say in how people decide that. They CANNOT make people want to play with you. They CANNOT force people to leave out X or Y requirements in order to play with you. By your logic of it being ZOS' job to limit "exclusion" (which it is not and never should be), then hey, groups can't require X amount of DPS, X amount of heals, they can't require Tanks/Healers/DPS or specific Gear or Skills that make the content easier for those taking part. All of that excludes someone, right? See how much of a slippery slope that is?

It is not and will never be ZOS' responsibility to police people including others or not. The ONLY time it would be under their jurisdiction is if that exclusion is targeted to troll or harass someone. And no, requiring someone to use an addon isn't targeted harassment or trolling any more than requiring your DPS to do 100k on a parse is. In fact, it's LESS exclusionary because putting on an addon is a choice and not something you need to actually work at doing like having endgame DPS or tanking ability or whatever.

heimdall14_9 · May 14

Arunei wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

FlameDark wrote: »

Addons when mandatory are called game mechanics, which ZOS has in the past formed game mechs from popular addons. Thus all Addons are optional, it is pointless to make a poll asking this. This is where my vote lies.

Although I do see the underlying reason why the poll was created and I dont like it. Firstly, if you do not like your raid group demanding a single addon to use while raiding, then don't do anything with that group. Simple. Join another if you can't make your own, that does not require that specific addon. They do exist. I believe in free will, and if a raid leader wants everyone to use a specific addon in their group, or if they want everyone wearing the bucket helmet, hell if they want everyone to use the assassin personality during the raid for extra edge, then they are fully allowed to do it and you do not have to join. That is your right, and that is their right. You choose to not use addons, cool. Good for you. Do not force it on the rest of us. If you feel you are unfairly being held back because you choose to not use addons, that is really not our problem. That is a choice you made. You can absolutely do the exact same thing as everyone with addons while not using them, perhaps if you cant keep up, it is less the addons fault?

Addons are as much a part of the game as the character creation menu. Minion and ESOUI allow players to enhance and custom make their own UI preference through it. It takes a load off of ZOS if the community helps make gameplay improvements that ZOS oversees and can adjust when needed. However, it is totally optional and should remain that way.

So now I am going to be very kind here, and say with as much patience as I can muster. OP, you need to stop.

You have already made a thread about Addons, you have invaded other threads about Addons, and now a poll about addons. I understand it is difficult for you to grasp what it is we are all saying. I know you have read the facts that we have quite firmly told you before about why you are wrong, and you have decided it is nothing more then mindless opinions. You do not care to listen to us, and there is nothing more that we can say or do that can change how you feel. You do not care about anything BUT removing addons from the game, and you firmly believe they are a threat to the game. We get that. Trust me we ALL get that. Your message was loud and clear. However, myself and many others FIRMLY disagree with you on that. But at this point this has now turned into just an emotional vendetta against addons. I don't know what happened that caused such a... dramatic... reaction. But find new guilds if the ones you are in now have caused you to lash out on the forums like this. Addons will remain, Wizards will remain, if you don't like playing a game with addons well... I am sure there is other games that can take up your time. Its harsh, but really there is nothing left to say to you. Accept addons are a thing, or leave. Since I highly doubt that any argument, facts, or Todd Howard himself floating down from the sky to tell you Addons are not the boogie man of ESO and are here to stay would ever convince you otherwise, then you are going to have to have the realization that everything you are trying to do will never work and to either begrudgingly accept this and continue playing, or just dont accept it and either continue to play ESO miserably, or find another MMO that matches your opinion of addons. Either or, that is how this is going to end. As I have said my part, and the OP will not change their stance, I am bowing out of the debate entirely. As this is both exhausting and pointless.

i wasnt going to speak in this poll other than saying sorry for misspelled word in poll but since you want to bring up other post ive made while saying others have SHOWN me proof that what ive been saying is wrong id like to ask you what PROOF not opinions has been SHOWN ??????
ive seen more insults and belittlement then i have PROOF in every post ive made SINCE 1ST day of joining the forum's,

You've been told over and over again by numerous people there's no problem. You've been told by someone who directly spoke with ZOS there's no problem. You've ignored all the proof and instead of admitting you were wrong and letting bygones be bygones, you instead resort to claiming people are "insulting" and "belittling" you.

So are you going to claim now that Kevin coming and telling you in the thread that got closed is also insulting and belittling you? Are you going to claim this somehow isn't "proof" that your opinion on WW and similar addons is incorrect and potentially at this rate bordering on spam and/or misinformation?

You are allowed to have your opinion. Everyone is. You're allowed to THINK addons somehow ruin the integrity of the game. But you're over here time and again presenting these opinions as objective fact. That isn't the case. You're allowed to dislike addons, think they're cheating, think they ruin the game, whatever you want to think. You're allowed to avoid them, as they aren't "mandatory" in that they're NEEDED to play the game. A lot of people like myself find them mandatory in the sense that they actually make the game more enjoyable and easier in numerous ways, but they aren't mandatory in the way you're trying to imply.

And yes, as much as it sucks, people ARE allowed to dictate who they play with. ZOS has NO say in how people decide that. They CANNOT make people want to play with you. They CANNOT force people to leave out X or Y requirements in order to play with you. By your logic of it being ZOS' job to limit "exclusion" (which it is not and never should be), then hey, groups can't require X amount of DPS, X amount of heals, they can't require Tanks/Healers/DPS or specific Gear or Skills that make the content easier for those taking part. All of that excludes someone, right? See how much of a slippery slope that is?

It is not and will never be ZOS' responsibility to police people including others or not. The ONLY time it would be under their jurisdiction is if that exclusion is targeted to troll or harass someone. And no, requiring someone to use an addon isn't targeted harassment or trolling any more than requiring your DPS to do 100k on a parse is. In fact, it's LESS exclusionary because putting on an addon is a choice and not something you need to actually work at doing like having endgame DPS or tanking ability or whatever.

great for PC you got another win and get to keep your favorit toy , sad thing is you all want crossplay so you'll have more players in the game while console playings are leaving the game in masses over the way the games going , but you PC players dont get that YES add-ons has been PC game play for 10+ years for console its been the opposite my friends list has went from having 250 active players a day to just 30-40 and thats having 684 friends that use to play eso 85% daily for upwards of 16 hours ... KEEP GATEKEEPING THE GAME TO JUST PC AND THERE WONT BE PLAYERS FOR CROSSPLAY TO BE NEEDED LOL GOODBYE just like i left the PC community after buying an 3500$ PC for not wanting to run add-ons ill now being doing the same on PSN

spartaxoxo · May 14

optimal

frogthroat wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

where as its not zos job to force someone play with you it is their job to limit the things players can use to dismiss others over

Why is it their job to dictate what is and isn't an acceptable requirement for individuals to form a group?

I used to be in an Argonian rp guild. Should zos force that guild to accept players who refuse to make an Argonoan character?

I am in a solo player guild revolving around PO, where the requirement is to post a picture you have PO. Should zos force them to accept people who don't have PO?

What's PO?