Night market-related bad feeling

ajkb78 · May 13

Here's a bit of night market feedback that has only become apparent to me after playing for a while. First I think it's a great piece of content, though if joining a group already inside a zone the need to run through as far as you can, die and float down from the wayshrine is a bit annoying. Anyway - sidetrack.

The thing I wanted to discuss is key hoarding. Now we're into a phase where guilds are organising trial runs and working on the no-death, an unexpected source of aggravation has become apparent because of the need to farm keys. It's not like everyone can quickly run round and farm all the keys at the start of a typical 2 hour guild trial session, it would take all the time up. However guilds do often help members farm keys. The aggravation is then when players who Guild A has helped to farm keys for a Guild A trial night then end up using them with Guild B and letting down the people who helped them farm. Yes I know, player etiquette issue and all that, but it's one that didn't need to exist. I think the idea of the keys was to keep the actual overland busy, and I get it, but IMO it's gone too far and become too arduous to farm for a single trial run.

My suggestion would be:

1) Eliminate the need to farm dungeon boss keys for a trial group. Dungeons are different content and even if a group can group up early to farm keys a trial group doesn't map well onto running the dungeons as well. There are plenty of people who want to run these, they shouldn't be gated serially. It's fine to have to do the dungeons once to unlock the trial, but after that I think the requirement to re-farm dungeons should be dropped.
2) Reduce the number of overland boss farming required for subsequent runs. Farming all 12 brazen bosses and 4 argents every time is the wrong balance. I think for a subsequent dungeon run it should suffice to re-farm a small number of brazen bosses in the zone (which is manageable by a 4-man dungeon group), and for a subsequent trial run perhaps an argent key or maybe one argent key from each zone,

That would bring key farming back to something a well-organized group could reasonably farm at the start of their session. It would eliminate a lot of the frustration of "I can't join the guild run tonight because there isn't time to farm keys" but would still circulate groups through night market overland so that unorganized groups or individuals have people in the zones with them.

I know you can't implement this for the current round of the night market but I hope it's something that might be considered for re-runs.

Vulkunne · May 13

Guilds are a means to an end; They are not the solution that some people think they are.

As a Tank I help groups in Night Market but really don't care for the Trial or having to repeatedly farm keys. As a Tank it's good to be needed but as you said the continuity suffers when conflicts of interest block progress unnecessarily. It sucks but it doesn't surprise me any. Its also not easy to get in on a Trial in the first place, especially this one that's so complicated.

Taarente · May 13

Vulkunne wrote: »

Guilds are a means to an end; They are not the solution that some people think they are.

As a Tank I help groups in Night Market but really don't care for the Trial or having to repeatedly farm keys. As a Tank it's good to be needed but as you said the continuity suffers when conflicts of interest block progress unnecessarily. It sucks but it doesn't surprise me any. Its also not easy to get in on a Trial in the first place, especially this one that's so complicated.

I stopped after i’d got the 10,000 favor did all of the non silly achievements, did the trial. After that I went back with my tank and joined pugs, sparred with bosses, got into fights with mobs to help other players. Not really interested in the trial again.

SeaGtGruff · May 13

I went inside the Skittering dungeon solo after finally acquiring the grappling bow and discovering the dungeon, but of course I got insta-killed. I haven't even checked out the other dungeons after acquiring all three relics. To be honest, the inside of the Skittering dungeon didn't look very interesting-- a single room with a boss, as far as I could tell before getting killed-- and later when I saw some players waiting outside the entrance and tried to talk with them about grouping up and going in, they didn't even have the decency to respond at all, just completely ghosted me. I'm not getting a good vibe in the forums or in the game about the dungeons and the trial, so I doubt I'll bother with them at all unless something changes before now and the end of this "event." The general toxicity surrounding "end-game group content" in this game does not exactly welcome or encourage players to get involved and engage with that type of content. If the devs want to encourage more players into getting involved with that content, they really need to think about ways to mininize whatever is leading to the overall toxicity and gatekeeping.

ESO_player123 · May 13

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I went inside the Skittering dungeon solo after finally acquiring the grappling bow and discovering the dungeon, but of course I got insta-killed. I haven't even checked out the other dungeons after acquiring all three relics. To be honest, the inside of the Skittering dungeon didn't look very interesting-- a single room with a boss, as far as I could tell before getting killed-- and later when I saw some players waiting outside the entrance and tried to talk with them about grouping up and going in, they didn't even have the decency to respond at all, just completely ghosted me. I'm not getting a good vibe in the forums or in the game about the dungeons and the trial, so I doubt I'll bother with them at all unless something changes before now and the end of this "event." The general toxicity surrounding "end-game group content" in this game does not exactly welcome or encourage players to get involved and engage with that type of content. If the devs want to encourage more players into getting involved with that content, they really need to think about ways to mininize whatever is leading to the overall toxicity and gatekeeping.

I recommend joining one of the groups in GF that are advertised for the dungeon you want to run. Just make sure that you are joining a group that is set for 4 players not 12.

Edit: I do not know why those players did not answer you, but they were probably already a part of a group and waiting for the other members to show up. Trying to get into a group at the entrance would yield a result similar to standing next to an entrance to any other dungeon in the game. Unless you are a very good player you do want a proper group in those dungeons (as in 4 players with a proper tank).

CatalinaWineMixer2 · May 14

I am against key hoarding. The purpose of the event is to play with the Realm, not just our Guilds, Friends or Trial Teams. And entice more people to group content. There is already too much gatekeeping and exclusion in the game. Key hoarding will simply allow people to farm the event for the achievements and never come back to it.

It doesn't take long at all to get the keys either, even with a group of complete strangers. Ive met so many nice people and tons of really good players out there this way. The fact that the group finder is alive again is a tremendous thing for a lot of people and we should be asking for more ways to continue this trend, not isolate more people from it.

onyxorb · May 14

I've watched videos for the dungeons and the trial for Night Market, and don't think I'm going to even bother.
I just like running around doing the overland stuff with random groups, so I'll probably just keep working on that til I get my 10k favors and unlock the stuff I need.

Didn't know there was so much drama with the Trial keys, so honestly don't know a solution.
I do feel that requiring all the keys is how they are keeping the market busy after the initial excitement waned, so not sure they will reduce that requirement.

katanagirl1 · May 14

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

I am against key hoarding. The purpose of the event is to play with the Realm, not just our Guilds, Friends or Trial Teams. And entice more people to group content. There is already too much gatekeeping and exclusion in the game. Key hoarding will simply allow people to farm the event for the achievements and never come back to it.

It doesn't take long at all to get the keys either, even with a group of complete strangers. Ive met so many nice people and tons of really good players out there this way. The fact that the group finder is alive again is a tremendous thing for a lot of people and we should be asking for more ways to continue this trend, not isolate more people from it.

It’s a good idea on paper but is not working well for me.

Our guild leader wanted us to help everyone get relics first, and that finished last week. We were supposed to do the group dungeons and trial together, but some have run with other guilds already and no one is showing up to do anything now. There is no coordination at this point. I’ve been using the group finder this week for dailies but it’s slowed way down and the groups are less knowledgeable about mechanics and tend to just farm the adds. Now I probably have to use the group finder for the dungeons and trial and I feel like that is not going to go well either.

templar_heal · May 14

Dungeons are possible with pugs, very much depends on the group members. Not sure about trial. I believe it requires good coordination and voice chat.

ESO_player123 · May 14

templar_heal wrote: »

Dungeons are possible with pugs, very much depends on the group members. Not sure about trial. I believe it requires good coordination and voice chat.

I finished the trial 3 times with pugs (I do pugs only), once with voice chat and 2 without.

Edit: you are correct about good coordination tough.

tsaescishoeshiner · May 14

Key restrictions are a major limitation to actually doing the content, on top of needing a different number of people for overland, then dungeons, then the trial.