Shattered Paths Signet Is Problematic

SneaK · May 8

React wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

React wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

React wrote: »

>33% of damage coming from status effects with zero counterplay isn't healthy gameplay. Status effects are consistently top 3 damage received every single engagement it seems, even without pulse gankers present.

High damage with counterplay is good. High damage without counterplay is bad.

I’m not playing dumb I’m actually dumb. What does this CMX thing show me? Was this a duel or BG or what is this?

Scrappy cyrodiil fight with heavy line of sight against 3-5 players at different moments. Guess I should have given context, my fault.

No I just still live in the gutter here on Xbox.

Did you win the fight/s?

No, there is no winning against people spamming status effects like this. There was one person in this fight engaging in the status spam behavior, and they completely shut down any chance of me fighting back. The second you stop line of sighting or try to fight back, you fall over. As you can see I am VERY tanky on that build as well. Didn't matter at all.

When the status werewolves arrive next patch, I think the people in here defending this playstyle will be singing a different tune. It isn't fun when a 50k HP build is doing twice your damage, healing, and kills you in seconds without you having any hope of fighting back. That is what is coming if this doesn't see an adjustment. The wardens will be very, very strong as well.

Status effects in the past were supposed to be secondary sources of debuffs primarily, because they're applied for free off normal ability usage/weaving/glyph & set procs. After the buff however long ago it was now (maybe 2 years?), we started to see burning/poisoned/hemo become very prominent sources of damage taken, but usually not top 3 like you see here.

Now these "secondary sources of debuffs" are doing top DPS every engagement and often dealing more damage than ability sourced dots, and typically more per-gcd direct damage than ability sourced direct damage skills. It's just way too much return for how little investment it takes.

I see.. I ran it last night and 1v1-2 it was good, but more than that (if decent) it was not great. I can see how it could be an issue for a solo player fighting against it, plus multiple people. I guess the way it sits with me right now is it’s good for small fights and Xv1’ing.. it’s not good for crushing zergs in comped groups or fighting outnumbered. When u50 hits with WW that could change the outnumbered viewpoint though.

IMO, the masteries are going to bring enough variety out where I doubt it’ll be completely overrun with status builds. I think gankers and bursty NBs are a good counter to the signet builds. If ZOS would stop nerfing NB masteries on the pts maybe u50 NBs would help reign in the comfortability of Xv1’ing with a status build. ie actual balance via playstyles.

BardokRedSnow · May 8

xylena wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

There will be a number of crazy builds come next patch

And most of them will be running Shattered Path.

Why am I trying to help the balance of GH anyway? I should just say "yeah let the ring stay broken op" because that will drive even more players over to Vengeance!

Because these forums are your greyhost

Most people using monomyth right now, they always move to the next new hotness.

Decimus · May 8

Alright, the next bit I keep reading...

"Strong in 1v1/smaller fights/Xv1, less good in larger fights"

There is nothing that makes status effects scale worse with more enemies - quite the opposite in fact if you've got AoEs proccing them.

What is scaling worse is the defenses on your build if switching out from Monomyth without adjusting the defensive aspects - switch out to more armor (Lady Mundus, Protective etc) and you can get back to same/more tankiness and still have 15-20% more damage compared to running Monomyth.

Next.

SneaK · May 8

Decimus wrote: »

Alright, the next bit I keep reading...

"Strong in 1v1/smaller fights/Xv1, less good in larger fights"

There is nothing that makes status effects scale worse with more enemies - quite the opposite in fact if you've got AoEs proccing them.

What is scaling worse is the defenses on your build if switching out from Monomyth without adjusting the defensive aspects - switch out to more armor (Lady Mundus, Protective etc) and you can get back to same/more tankiness and still have 15-20% more damage compared to running Monomyth.

Next.

Maybe it’s an issue with tab targeting on console I dunno, but when there’s 3,4,5,6+ people it gets harder and harder to succeed with a pressure type build like that. It’s much easier to run a mono crit turn and burn build when outnumbered. Console issue (or player issue?) I dunno.

React · May 8

Average debuff bar right now.

YandereGirlfriend · May 8

React wrote: »

Average debuff bar right now.

Yep!

This looks about right for May 2026 PvP.

Sure takes a lot of "skill" to apply all of those free debuffs from range, heh.

Decimus · May 8

SneaK wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Alright, the next bit I keep reading...

"Strong in 1v1/smaller fights/Xv1, less good in larger fights"

There is nothing that makes status effects scale worse with more enemies - quite the opposite in fact if you've got AoEs proccing them.

What is scaling worse is the defenses on your build if switching out from Monomyth without adjusting the defensive aspects - switch out to more armor (Lady Mundus, Protective etc) and you can get back to same/more tankiness and still have 15-20% more damage compared to running Monomyth.

Next.

Maybe it’s an issue with tab targeting on console I dunno, but when there’s 3,4,5,6+ people it gets harder and harder to succeed with a pressure type build like that. It’s much easier to run a mono crit turn and burn build when outnumbered. Console issue (or player issue?) I dunno.

I don't know much about the build here, but it sounds like you've also changed the build to be more single target then and don't have that functionality of going for ulti burst anymore. You can have that though if you switch the monster set to Balorgh, it's very easy to build up to 500 for maximum value when running Signet & then dump ultis on people who have been taking 3-4k DPS from your status procs while chasing, if needed.

Can do one cast of jabs before the dawnbreaker for example and the value you get for your turn and burn from that alone is like an additional proc set going off (3x Sundered procs on everyone hit by jabs), followed by the max value Balorgh - that 20% crit damage pales in comparison, even if you have "no mythic" for the damage following your ultimate.

Ankael07 · May 8

Minor timidity you get from this mythic should apply out of combat so gankers cant run around with 500 ulti at all times

Lord_Hev · May 9

.

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

React wrote: »

Average debuff bar right now.

Yep!

This looks about right for May 2026 PvP.

Sure takes a lot of "skill" to apply all of those free debuffs from range, heh.

At least Zos had the foresight of preventing pureclass necros that must be pureclassed and slot malevolent promise instead of the other two damage-focused masteries, from equipping a specific class-set that only necros can wear, and must be additionally pure-classed to access malevolent promise; from using malevolent promise and corpseburster to reign such oppressive havoc on all of cyrodiil in grand zergs of all pure-class necros just seething in the sewers. We should all be so thankful. The pulsegankers might have to worry in the few brief seconds of being out of stealth, a necro could wait 3 business days to line up the passive proc and then cast detonating siphon and hope it doesn't bug out because client-side ping goes up by 0.9999ms in that split second.

Zodiarkslayer · May 9

I hope that the Devs ignore this thread and do not submit to the fear mongering and cry bullying around this topic.

Dear, @ZOS_Kevin, sometimes one has to be brave and stand up to the bullies.
Can I bother you to make sure that noone in the combat team takes this too serious and remind them that PvP is a derivative game mode and not an original one, please?

Any problematic behaviour occurring within PvP game mode is a community issue and not a game balance issue.
The PvP players are the problem and not the equipment that they use. Their mindset is singularly focused on ganking with high burst and trolling with nigh unlikable HP builds.
If Signet is nerfed, there will be another combo of super high burst. Nerfing a piece of equipment can and will never change the mindset of the players.
Just like Warden Charm. The players using it right now will find another to troll kill in Cyrodiil, if the charm is ever removed.

This is a qualitative argument, that shows how deep the issue really goes. I know being hit by the truth head on is sometimes uncomfortable and raises strong emotions. But one has to choose how to react. And the reaction shows who one really is.

That being said, I encourage everyone to face the real problem and to face the bullies.
Be brave, everyone!

Major_Toughness · May 9

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

I hope that the Devs ignore this thread and do not submit to the fear mongering and cry bullying around this topic.

Dear, @ZOS_Kevin, sometimes one has to be brave and stand up to the bullies.
Can I bother you to make sure that noone in the combat team takes this too serious and remind them that PvP is a derivative game mode and not an original one, please?

Any problematic behaviour occurring within PvP game mode is a community issue and not a game balance issue.
The PvP players are the problem and not the equipment that they use. Their mindset is singularly focused on ganking with high burst and trolling with nigh unlikable HP builds.
If Signet is nerfed, there will be another combo of super high burst. Nerfing a piece of equipment can and will never change the mindset of the players.
Just like Warden Charm. The players using it right now will find another to troll kill in Cyrodiil, if the charm is ever removed.

This is a qualitative argument, that shows how deep the issue really goes. I know being hit by the truth head on is sometimes uncomfortable and raises strong emotions. But one has to choose how to react. And the reaction shows who one really is.

That behind said, I encourage everyone to face the real problem and to face the bullies.
Be brave, everyone!

God damn those PvP players for having good, optimised builds. Why doesn't anyone think of Timmy, the little guy, whose unoptimised PoS builds do no damage unless he equips the overpowered mythic to carry the damage.

Decimus · May 9

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

I hope that the Devs ignore this thread and do not submit to the fear mongering and cry bullying around this topic.

Dear, @ZOS_Kevin, sometimes one has to be brave and stand up to the bullies.
Can I bother you to make sure that noone in the combat team takes this too serious and remind them that PvP is a derivative game mode and not an original one, please?

Any problematic behaviour occurring within PvP game mode is a community issue and not a game balance issue.
The PvP players are the problem and not the equipment that they use. Their mindset is singularly focused on ganking with high burst and trolling with nigh unlikable HP builds.
If Signet is nerfed, there will be another combo of super high burst. Nerfing a piece of equipment can and will never change the mindset of the players.
Just like Warden Charm. The players using it right now will find another to troll kill in Cyrodiil, if the charm is ever removed.

This is a qualitative argument, that shows how deep the issue really goes. I know being hit by the truth head on is sometimes uncomfortable and raises strong emotions. But one has to choose how to react. And the reaction shows who one really is.

That behind said, I encourage everyone to face the real problem and to face the bullies.
Be brave, everyone!

Pretty sure this... *gasp*, PvPer, has more trifectas than you do. Not to mention world first clears and IA #1 scores.

The mythic is just as broken in PvE, can we stop repeating the misinformation? 20-30k DPS is lost from many of the 200k parses when this mythic is removed from the equation.

Weak builds and abilities/sets are kept on life support by this mythic, making balancing those abilities and sets to not be terrible (without the mythic) an impossible task.

It is not that complicated.

Ordinator199 · May 9

Bet op didn't cry about his 40-50k health, 10k whip dk though

either way that build is only really effective vs 20-30k health builds

Decimus · May 9

Ordinator199 wrote: »

Bet op didn't cry about his 40-50k health, 10k whip dk though

either way that build is only really effective vs 20-30k health builds

The build in the original post has been top damage in every BG I've done so far and definitely works against everything by being unavoidable damage.

This also works against everything:

https://youtu.be/7iJmxiIo02Q

Spoiler: jabs are not OP, thumbnail is satire.

xylena · May 9

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Because these forums are your greyhost

Most people using monomyth right now, they always move to the next new hotness.

So most people are still using the old meta, but will soon use the new meta. Bold take.

Forums remain the more balanced meta. More players, more consistent action 24/7, outcomes determined by skill not gear.

Busted gear like Shattered Path only makes Vengeance that much more appealing.

BardokRedSnow · May 9

xylena wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Because these forums are your greyhost

Most people using monomyth right now, they always move to the next new hotness.

So most people are still using the old meta, but will soon use the new meta. Bold take.

Forums remain the more balanced meta. More players, more consistent action 24/7, outcomes determined by skill not gear.

Busted gear like Shattered Path only makes Vengeance that much more appealing.

I know you’re trying to be funny but I pointed out the obvious specifically because you stating everyone would be using shattered paths as though that’s surprising, is normal considering it’s the new hyped up mythic.

It’s not a take, I’m not trying to be clever, it’s just a fact that people going to this mythic doesn’t prove it needs a nerf on that fact alone.

CameraBeardThePirate · May 9

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

Can I bother you to make sure that noone in the combat team takes this too serious and remind them that PvP is a derivative game mode and not an original one, please?

PvP is definitely not a "derivative" game mode lol, it was literally designed as the endgame of ESO at launch.

If Signet is nerfed, there will be another combo of super high burst. Nerfing a piece of equipment can and will never change the mindset of the players.
Just like Warden Charm. The players using it right now will find another to troll kill in Cyrodiil, if the charm is ever removed.

This is the most backwards logic I've ever seen. "We shouldn't nerf things that are over powered because then the meta will shift to something else that's OP" is an insane take.

That's how live service games work. Metas ebb and flow based on what is overperforming at the moment. If we never nerf anything the game gets stale and dies, or you get insane power creep.

xylena · May 9

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

It’s not a take, I’m not trying to be clever

Obviously not. "Well that's just how it is" like the GH lag that's never getting fixed.

GH will however continue to cater to players who like to watch their gear play for them. They're gonna love Shattered Path so maybe ZOS actually shouldn't nerf its PvP function, as that would deny the GH server its intended niche of an animated stat sheet.

moo_2021 · May 9

What if it works more like overload? e.g. when wearing the ring, ulti skills cannot be used (only passives still apply), damage done effect is activated by ulti reaching 170, then ulti gen is paused and slowly being drained back to zero either by time or status effect ticks, where the effect stops. Can't be unequipped while it's draining/active.

mythics are supposed to have trade-offs. a mere nerf would either make it useless, or still OP.

CatalinaWineMixer2 · 12:52AM

Take the mythics and turn them all into bound furniture. Fatigue doesn't even begin to describe the problems and arguments that arise from every single one of them. The game will be better off without them.

Urzigurumash · 1:08AM

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

This is a qualitative argument, that shows how deep the issue really goes.

I'm not quite sure what was meant here but the OP state of this ring could be quantitatively examined by taking the aforementioned 45k dummy parses and dividing that DPS number by APM or the number of skills used and comparing that to other parses. That would show this ring is doing incredible damage with unusually low APM and number of skills.

Which can be intuitively gleaned just by looking at a recap. Fighting this before I even knew what it was that was my impression, "I don't know what this guys running but it's gotta be the easiest way to deal damage I've ever seen, he's really discovered something broken here", were my thoughts before I even knew there was something worth farming in the NM.

Bernz007 · 4:04AM

Decimus wrote: »

Ordinator199 wrote: »

Bet op didn't cry about his 40-50k health, 10k whip dk though

either way that build is only really effective vs 20-30k health builds

The build in the original post has been top damage in every BG I've done so far and definitely works against everything by being unavoidable damage.

This also works against everything: https://youtu.be/7iJmxiIo02Q

Spoiler: jabs are not OP, thumbnail is satire.

My understanding is 8v8 BGs were tailored towards casual players...How about posting some footage from GH with this mythic?

Zodiarkslayer · 8:56AM

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

PvP is definitely not a "derivative" game mode lol, it was literally designed as the endgame of ESO at launch.

If it was such a good design to force players into PvP, why did they change it?
Why did ESO get successful only after it's PvP's role was significantly reduced? How many PvP players are left after 12 years?
Could it be that it was a really bad idea to make PvP the main endgame? Or was it the financial troubles that this PvP focus got the company in?
Matt Firor, former game director, recently gave an interview, commenting on exactly that. Look it up! It's quite illuminating.

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

This is the most backwards logic I've ever seen. "We shouldn't nerf things that are over powered because then the meta will shift to something else that's OP" is an insane take.

Well, you are expecting the situation to change by nerfing the item of current focus. How has that worked in the past? How has that changed the underlying fundamental problems in the gameplay loop of ESO's PvP?
How are you still expecting the same action (nerfing item sets or abilities) to solve the problems plaguing PvP under the surface, when that action repeatedly only created the same situation with the same underlying problems?

Ah, and my man Vaas says you should look up the definition of insanity ...

Firstmep · 9:44AM

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

PvP is definitely not a "derivative" game mode lol, it was literally designed as the endgame of ESO at launch.

If it was such a good design to force players into PvP, why did they change it?
Why did ESO get successful only after it's PvP's role was significantly reduced? How many PvP players are left after 12 years?
Could it be that it was a really bad idea to make PvP the main endgame? Or was it the financial troubles that this PvP focus got the company in?
Matt Firor, former game director, recently gave an interview, commenting on exactly that. Look it up! It's quite illuminating.

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

This is the most backwards logic I've ever seen. "We shouldn't nerf things that are over powered because then the meta will shift to something else that's OP" is an insane take.

Well, you are expecting the situation to change by nerfing the item of current focus. How has that worked in the past? How has that changed the underlying fundamental problems in the gameplay loop of ESO's PvP?
How are you still expecting the same action (nerfing item sets or abilities) to solve the problems plaguing PvP under the surface, when that action repeatedly only created the same situation with the same underlying problems?

Ah, and my man Vaas says you should look up the definition of insanity ...

We have had metas that were relatively balanced, so we could see a return to that for example.

moo_2021 · 11:37AM

Got the ring! Result looks impressive - bash used to be 2/3 of damage, now 1/3. I have no status enhancing sets or charged trait, only DK Ardent Flame passives, Burning Ember and elem sus, with very clunky rotation.

Against max resist player:

Against PvE player:

So the new burning effect is as good as burning ember itself?! Also stauts effects scale higher on players with max resist? use bash as the base line, from 34% on light armoured to 38% on max resist

Such odd results usually come from DoT opponents like pre U49 DKs. Now I can do it for free.

guess I had been playing the game wrong, lol

Luneca · 1:14PM

moo_2021 wrote: »

Got the ring! Result looks impressive - bash used to be 2/3 of damage, now 1/3. I have no status enhancing sets or charged trait, only DK Ardent Flame passives, Burning Ember and elem sus, with very clunky rotation.

Against max resist player:

Against PvE player:

So the new burning effect is as good as burning ember itself?! Also stauts effects scale higher on players with max resist? use bash as the base line, from 34% on light armoured to 38% on max resist

Such odd results usually come from DoT opponents like pre U49 DKs. Now I can do it for free.

guess I had been playing the game wrong, lol

It's because status effects can proc off themselves. Burn can proc more than one time in an instant of time from iself in some situations.

It's been that way for a long time which is why Burning Spellweave lost it's unique burn effect. But that also managed to make this problem more prevalent when all burns were consildated into either a generic DoT or the generic burn effect.

It may be a limitation of their game engine at fault, or just an oversight that ZOS could correct by removing the initial tick of burn, poison, and hemmoraghing and adding an initial tick to compensate for it or putting a short delay if they cannot stop those three status effects from activating off of their own damage.

Well, maybe it isn't a problem at all in ZOS' eyes since that may even be intentional (otherwise why would Threads of War exist)? We'll never know because developers do not discuss combat changes anymore these days or provide clarity on what is and is not intended.

Decimus · 6:40PM

Luneca wrote: »

moo_2021 wrote: »

Got the ring! Result looks impressive - bash used to be 2/3 of damage, now 1/3. I have no status enhancing sets or charged trait, only DK Ardent Flame passives, Burning Ember and elem sus, with very clunky rotation.

Against max resist player:

Against PvE player:

So the new burning effect is as good as burning ember itself?! Also stauts effects scale higher on players with max resist? use bash as the base line, from 34% on light armoured to 38% on max resist

Such odd results usually come from DoT opponents like pre U49 DKs. Now I can do it for free.

guess I had been playing the game wrong, lol

It's because status effects can proc off themselves. Burn can proc more than one time in an instant of time from iself in some situations.

It's been that way for a long time which is why Burning Spellweave lost it's unique burn effect. But that also managed to make this problem more prevalent when all burns were consildated into either a generic DoT or the generic burn effect.

It may be a limitation of their game engine at fault, or just an oversight that ZOS could correct by removing the initial tick of burn, poison, and hemmoraghing and adding an initial tick to compensate for it or putting a short delay if they cannot stop those three status effects from activating off of their own damage.

Well, maybe it isn't a problem at all in ZOS' eyes since that may even be intentional (otherwise why would Threads of War exist)? We'll never know because developers do not discuss combat changes anymore these days or provide clarity on what is and is not intended.

That is not how status effects work; they cannot proc themselves and they cannot proc proc sets either. This restriction is probably in place to prevent a perpetual motion machine of sorts from forming.

You proc status effects with your abilities (including overload lights/heavies), enchants, proc sets & passives.

Bernz007 wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Ordinator199 wrote: »

Bet op didn't cry about his 40-50k health, 10k whip dk though

either way that build is only really effective vs 20-30k health builds

The build in the original post has been top damage in every BG I've done so far and definitely works against everything by being unavoidable damage.

This also works against everything: https://youtu.be/7iJmxiIo02Q

Spoiler: jabs are not OP, thumbnail is satire.

My understanding is 8v8 BGs were tailored towards casual players...How about posting some footage from GH with this mythic?

Everything in this game is tailored towards casual players, that's why we still don't have ranked PvP after 12 years - there is no difference in the average skill level of players between BGs & Cyrodiil, just more ball groups in the latter.

I'm not going to hop into content I don't enjoy for the sake of some forum argument and spend indeterminate amount of time there just to find a decent fight, so you'll just have to listen to the people posting on this thread who do waste spend more time there.

Oblivion_Protocol · 7:21PM

Decimus wrote: »

I'm not going to hop into content I don't enjoy for the sake of some forum argument and spend indeterminate amount of time there just to find a decent fight, so you'll just have to listen to the people posting on this thread who do waste spend more time there.

Well said. And as one of the people who spends a significant amount of time in Cyro, I can say that this mythic won’t be the problem people keep thinking it is. We’ll add some much needed variety to a meta that has been stagnant for far too long.