Shattered Paths Signet Is Problematic

Oblivion_Protocol · May 7

Nordstern wrote: »

Why would that be good? Dot builds require the least skill out of any builds. Everything is better than dot meta.

As much as you want to believe this is the case, no, you can’t just slap some dots on and go about your business. It still takes effort to kill with one of these builds. If the person you’re fighting with dots isn’t a complete Muppet, they can outheal your damage and then burst you down while you sit there hoping to profit from a ‘set it and forget it’ playstyle. I can’t count the number of people who thought spamming Ele Sus would be enough to kill me, only to then wind up dead in the dirt.

It’s good because it brings variety. It’s good because more people have access to power that can compete in PVP. It’s good because PVE is seeing something other than green laser beams everywhere like you’re at a rave.

albertberku wrote: »

This 8k dmg is very naive. Now imagine that build with Snipe + Pulse + Crystal Weapon + Overload + Winterborn from someone sneaking 40m away from you.

[…]

"Skill issue" commenters, i wait for your valuable contribution in this thread...

As a regular “skill issue” commenter, I appreciate your gracious yielding of the floor to my ever more important opinion 😜

Jokes aside, what you’re talking about is a different issue. @xylena mentioned that Shattered Paths enabled these builds, but it didn’t. Those builds existed before Shattered Paths. Hell, those builds existed in a weaker form before subclassing. The issue has nothing to do with the mythic and everything to do with the fact that multiple instances of damage can strike simultaneously. Like many of the problems in PVP today, it all comes back to subclassing.

xylena · May 7

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

Like many of the problems in PVP today, it all comes back to subclassing.

I don't care what is going on Live because that meta will no longer exist the next time I log into this game in a month. These are pureclass builds on PTS.

In case anyone ever doubted it, players in the small pond do in fact want gear to play for them, and that's why the PvP build meta is the way it is.

Oblivion_Protocol · May 7

xylena wrote: »

I don't care what is going on Live because that meta will no longer exist the next time I log into this game in a month. These are pureclass builds on PTS.

In case anyone ever doubted it, players in the small pond do in fact want gear to play for them, and that's why the PvP build meta is the way it is.

Oh, so you’re saying pure class builds are going to be stronger, aka, the thing many of us have been begging for since subclassing became a thing?

GOOD

Again, more power being distributed among us who are tired of charm spamming Wardens. And I’ve seen the stuff on the PTS. I don’t know how else to say this, as I’ve been saying it for the past few days now in much nicer ways, but if you’re truly struggling consistently against this playstyle…

Skill issue. Plain and simple.

Build tankier. Find stronger heals. Throw on a cleanse or two. Make friends with a healer. The possibilities are out there, rather than just screaming to nerf a new and interesting piece of gear that bolsters an entire unique playstyle just because it kills you.

The game will be fine. Those of us who enjoy it will continue to enjoy it, and those who don’t should find something they do enjoy, rather than make themselves miserable playing something they don’t like that won’t change.

React · May 7

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

if you’re truly struggling consistently against this playstyle…

Skill issue. Plain and simple.

Build tankier. Find stronger heals. Throw on a cleanse or two. Make friends with a healer. The possibilities are out there, rather than just screaming to nerf a new and interesting piece of gear that bolsters an entire unique playstyle just because it kills you.

Surely you can understand the irony of calling something a skill issue, then suggesting the only counterplay is to build tankier, right? That implies the counterplay is in fact not skill based at all, but rather build based.

Which is accurate, by the way. There isn't skill based counterplay to this fire-and-forget nonsense. Bloating the damage meta with a ton of unavoidable, free damage proc spam and telling people to just "build tankier" is going to lead to an environment that nobody has fun in.

BardokRedSnow · May 7

Firstmep wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

One DK with this and Corrosive isn't a worry, it's getting focused by the roof zerglings who suddenly each do massive pressure just from LA + Ele Sus spam, to say nothing about actual skilled players focusing targets Xv1 from range with perfect weaving and minmaxed proc cheese?

So, in other words, this mythic is only a problem when you’re getting focused by multiple people…like damn near anything else in this game.

Exactly, xv1 is the only instance Ive died to it, personally. Havent been caught afk with it yet but Im sure itll happen, I get messaged a lot during pvp lol at the most inopportune times.

A certain sweat was very proud of killing me xv1 with it lol, I wont name them here but its amusing to me. Its really not a big deal, but @React knows a lot more about these things than me and is a much better player so if he says the next patch will be ridiculous with it and problematic, I would take that seriously at least and say that zos should at least look into it themselves.

I'm using this mythic in bgs and it is just deleting people with minimal input. On a plar no less, which doesn't even synergize with shattered path.
Heck you can use this mythic to make jabs good, by proccing high damage sundered on nearly every tick. That's 2k jab ticks with 2k sundered ticks essentially doubling jabs damage, but sundered is not affected by major evasion.
And as React said it is going to get worse with class masteries next update.
Also, pts exists to test this stuff which React, among other people, did, so this isnt just some theory based on patch notes.

I ran through bgs a few times also with my group of friends and fought in the past against a few streamers doing it too. What I found is the same as always, these glass cannon builds delete people they’d be deleting normally anyway, just more proficiently. Meanwhile against me fully buffed 1v1 I was just fine and they run or stay in the spawn area. 2 or more they run especially, or die and are really no help to the team at all. One such streamer switched off said build to go to their dk four man and lol that was way more devastating than any number up people using this status effect cheese build even on bgs

So people who are already getting rolled by just one player in bgs whose names are not Blueberrypancake, are dying a little faster. Everyone else, especially with a healer, which we had one on the team and three damage dealers, was doing just fine, won all our matches last night also

Zergers getting to Zerg a little harder really doesn’t change much, before this patch long range damage was already very strong. The trade off is when they get close to fighters, they have to run. So they can’t hold a position and are useful to no one.

A minor annoyance as far as I am concerned.

Oblivion_Protocol · May 7

React wrote: »

Surely you can understand the irony of calling something a skill issue, then suggesting the only counterplay is to build tankier, right? That implies the counterplay is in fact not skill based at all, but rather build based.

Which is accurate, by the way. There isn't skill based counterplay to this fire-and-forget nonsense. Bloating the damage meta with a ton of unavoidable, free damage proc spam and telling people to just "build tankier" is going to lead to an environment that nobody has fun in.

Part of the skill is in knowing how to build properly. But the bigger part is in understanding game mechanics and rotations. I’d expect you of all people to know that, React, considering that your PVP builds are probably some of the most copied builds in the game. Yet, you still manage to be one of the most feared players in Cyro.

If people like you are getting easily melted by Ele Sus spamming noobs, then we have a problem. But I somehow doubt that’s what’s happening here.

xylena · May 7

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

But I somehow doubt that’s what’s happening here.

Sure just run some niche garbage that can tank ranged LA proc spam and do absolutely nothing else. Or run behind pillars at speed cap and never actually fight, but still get passive kills from all your own set-and-forget status proc dumps (that's what I'd be doing). Or be one of the guys on the roof spamming LA for zero effort kills on players who don't know better.

wow this is fun balanced PvP for all skill levels devs hire this guy /s

ps there's still ball groups and one shots too

Decimus · May 7

There will be bad players with bad builds using this mythic, but the fact remains that this mythic increases your damage by around 30% (pretty much every build I have with SPS currently frequently lands status effects in the 50-70% range of damage done, where as without mythic this would be 20-25% at most).

For comparison, Warmask gives you somewhere between 10-20% (depending on other % dmg done buffs) against single target, while nerfing your damage against everyone else. Another comparison: you wouldn't get more damage with Monomyth even if you had 100% critical chance.

Anyone thinking that's fine and balanced is living completely detached from reality.

Liking this "new meta" is a different thing... until you realize that it leads to people complaining about:

Serpent's Disdain
Unleashed
Plaguebreak
Sheer Venom
Nunatak
Winterborn
Threads of War
Way of Fire
Elemental Susceptibility
Force Pulse/Crushing Shock
Jabs
Arctic Blast
Cutting Dive/Poison Injection
DK Skills with guaranteed Burning

...and so so many other things with high likelihood of status procs. And then you get nerfs to these "op" abilities like Cutting Dive or Jabs, because it's better to nerf everything apart from the actual problem, right? And don't tell me this isn't happening, it already has on PTS.

Malprave · May 7

This ring isn’t a problem at all for my Warden!

xylena · May 7

Malprave wrote: »

This ring isn’t a problem at all for my Warden!

God mode isn't a problem for me if I'm the only person that has it!

Mattymoo92 · May 7

xylena wrote: »

Sluggy wrote: »

Which means I can use corrosive

One DK with this and Corrosive isn't a worry, it's getting focused by the roof zerglings who suddenly each do massive pressure just from LA + Ele Sus spam, to say nothing about actual skilled players focusing targets Xv1 from range with perfect weaving and minmaxed proc cheese.

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

You don’t even play the game anymore

You really can't imagine why someone wouldn't want to play the game in its current state?

The game is in the healthiest state it’s been for a while…

Luneca · May 7

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

Oh, so you’re saying pure class builds are going to be stronger, aka, the thing many of us have been begging for since subclassing became a thing?

GOOD

Again, more power being distributed among us who are tired of charm spamming Wardens. And I’ve seen the stuff on the PTS. I don’t know how else to say this, as I’ve been saying it for the past few days now in much nicer ways, but if you’re truly struggling consistently against this playstyle…

Skill issue. Plain and simple.

Build tankier. Find stronger heals. Throw on a cleanse or two. Make friends with a healer. The possibilities are out there, rather than just screaming to nerf a new and interesting piece of gear that bolsters an entire unique playstyle just because it kills you.

The game will be fine. Those of us who enjoy it will continue to enjoy it, and those who don’t should find something they do enjoy, rather than make themselves miserable playing something they don’t like that won’t change.

When a build can only be completely enabled or disabled by a single one piece item in the game, then the one-piece item is a problem. It's really that simple.

That one item does what would take 3-5 build decisions otherwise. That means that a person not using it is essentially fighting someone with a build that has 3-5 potential advantages from the start, before a single move is exchanged.

Almost all the popular mythics function in a similar manner, which is why the game arguably has been skilless since the creation and introduction of them.

But not all the mythics increase damage to the point you can move more defense, hp, or whatever you wanted to not only outlast the opponent not wearing it, but completely destroy them with no counter.

When people say that the mythic isn't balanced, they are referring to the fact that the mythic is disruptive. And not disruptive in a way that shakes up balance, but in a way that the mythic itself becomes the definition of balance. Wear it or suffer. Grind for it or fall behind completely. Use build X or there is no real counter. Oh and the build works in nearly every scenario you can think of.

Just like Oakensoul when it released on live and many other mythics.

Theoretically you can always outplay someone, but at what point is it that everyone would decide that balance isn't achieved?

Me? I decide it based on how many choices can be saved by a single piece of gear: whether that be gear slots, class skill lines, skill slots, glyphs, etc.

All of this though, is really brought to the forefront because of the game's extreme emphasis on damage in every bit of content.

ZOS removed tactical play and counterplay that existed in previous years, and now in PvP, damage is all that matters. Mythics were an opportunity to add a new dimension to the game, but instead have been used to just increase power and damage with no real consequence. And this mythic wasn't the first one to do it and likely won't be the last.

albertberku · May 7

Here is a video of how the gameplay in Cyrodiil right now. I am wearing Esometric Environment Greaves and have around 25k resistances + 2k crit resist.

So basically i have around 70% damage reduction on direct hits. Around 15k shield and 24k hp, and left with 2k hp after the very first hit. So, this means 37k damage on 70% damage reduction. That is what hits you first and notice you that someone is attacking you.

https://youtu.be/dMuxgbTL5M8

BardokRedSnow · 12:07AM

If I recall, the pts consensus was that next patch Sorc would have crazy heals and damage both, Necromancer will be unkillable, werewolf will have crazy survivability as well and DK is DK but stronker and with insane dps like the Sorc with pyrebrand

That means while these gank builds will be crazy, so too are the other builds people will likely be calling for nerfs also.

Pelican was demonstrating just how powerful ww was by dueling the same DKs and killing them with said ww

There will be a number of crazy builds come next patch, if this existed in a vacuum that’d be one thing but it’s not and that’s why I think we should see how the meta plays out first before nerfing a brand new mythic.

BardokRedSnow · 12:08AM

albertberku wrote: »

Here is a video of how the gameplay in Cyrodiil right now. I am wearing Esometric Environment Greaves and have around 25k resistances + 2k crit resist.

https://youtu.be/dMuxgbTL5M8

Without even watching I can tell you that’s too low even before shattered paths signet

MonkeyFuzzz · 12:18AM

Is this ring attainable currently?
i tried looking it up amongst scrying/leads and nothing comes up. did they remove it from game ?

albertberku · 12:19AM

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

Skill issue. Plain and simple.

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Without even watching I can tell you that’s too low even before shattered paths signet

[snip] We are sharing data here. We are talking about facts. This is simple math. It is objective, it is science. [snip]

How tankier it gets than wearing Esometric Environment Greaves with shields on totaling 40k hp with up to 70% combined direct hit dmg reduction?
[edited for flaming]

Decimus · 1:53AM

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

If I recall, the pts consensus was that next patch Sorc would have crazy heals and damage both, Necromancer will be unkillable, werewolf will have crazy survivability as well and DK is DK but stronker and with insane dps like the Sorc with pyrebrand

That means while these gank builds will be crazy, so too are the other builds people will likely be calling for nerfs also.

Pelican was demonstrating just how powerful ww was by dueling the same DKs and killing them with said ww

There will be a number of crazy builds come next patch, if this existed in a vacuum that’d be one thing but it’s not and that’s why I think we should see how the meta plays out first before nerfing a brand new mythic.

The "PTS consensus" is that everyone is running SPS; the gank builds, the sorcerers, the wardens, the werewolves. PvP. PvE. Everyone. Why? Because it's BiS by a mile on vast majority of builds.

You also don't have to wait until next patch to find out "how the meta plays out"; it's already there, on Live.

Average CMX after BGs with the mythic:

Decimus · 2:15AM

MonkeyFuzzz wrote: »

Is this ring attainable currently?
i tried looking it up amongst scrying/leads and nothing comes up. did they remove it from game ?

Leads drop from bosses & daily boxes in the Night Market, limited time event zone that is available until June 17th.

Bernz007 · 5:29AM

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

I don't care what is going on Live because that meta will no longer exist the next time I log into this game in a month. These are pureclass builds on PTS.

In case anyone ever doubted it, players in the small pond do in fact want gear to play for them, and that's why the PvP build meta is the way it is.

Oh, so you’re saying pure class builds are going to be stronger, aka, the thing many of us have been begging for since subclassing became a thing?

GOOD

Again, more power being distributed among us who are tired of charm spamming Wardens. And I’ve seen the stuff on the PTS. I don’t know how else to say this, as I’ve been saying it for the past few days now in much nicer ways, but if you’re truly struggling consistently against this playstyle…

Skill issue. Plain and simple.

Build tankier. Find stronger heals. Throw on a cleanse or two. Make friends with a healer. The possibilities are out there, rather than just screaming to nerf a new and interesting piece of gear that bolsters an entire unique playstyle just because it kills you.

The game will be fine. Those of us who enjoy it will continue to enjoy it, and those who don’t should find something they do enjoy, rather than make themselves miserable playing something they don’t like that won’t change.

Well said, this is the truth! So many complain and can't adapt to the new environment. /tissue for Decimus

Decimus · 6:47AM

Bernz007 wrote: »

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

I don't care what is going on Live because that meta will no longer exist the next time I log into this game in a month. These are pureclass builds on PTS.

In case anyone ever doubted it, players in the small pond do in fact want gear to play for them, and that's why the PvP build meta is the way it is.

Oh, so you’re saying pure class builds are going to be stronger, aka, the thing many of us have been begging for since subclassing became a thing?

GOOD

Again, more power being distributed among us who are tired of charm spamming Wardens. And I’ve seen the stuff on the PTS. I don’t know how else to say this, as I’ve been saying it for the past few days now in much nicer ways, but if you’re truly struggling consistently against this playstyle…

Skill issue. Plain and simple.

Build tankier. Find stronger heals. Throw on a cleanse or two. Make friends with a healer. The possibilities are out there, rather than just screaming to nerf a new and interesting piece of gear that bolsters an entire unique playstyle just because it kills you.

The game will be fine. Those of us who enjoy it will continue to enjoy it, and those who don’t should find something they do enjoy, rather than make themselves miserable playing something they don’t like that won’t change.

Well said, this is the truth! So many complain and can't adapt to the new environment. /tissue for Decimus

Unsurprisingly I think you've managed to miss the entire point. I am not someone who needs to adapt, if you need proof of this there's the video linked on the original post as well as CMX parses above. I've also exclusively streamed status mythic builds for the last week or so. My KDR right now on the ele sus spammer for example is in the hundreds - this is verifiable facts.

Believe it or not, some people care about things such as fun and balance, overall long-term health of the game they play etc, not just their personal performance.

So you can keep your tissues, something tells me you have much more use for them than I do.

xylena · 10:05AM

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

There will be a number of crazy builds come next patch

And most of them will be running Shattered Path.

Why am I trying to help the balance of GH anyway? I should just say "yeah let the ring stay broken op" because that will drive even more players over to Vengeance!

SneaK · 1:02PM

Played (jabplardk) with it last night on GH, seems good in 1v1s or small skirmishes but didn’t really seem to shine in big fights or when I was outnumbered. I can’t speak to how it interacts with U50 masteries but currently it seems like it’s good for certain scenarios like dueling or ganking. I think it’s fine to be concerned with its interactions with u50 WW but I don’t see a world where ranged Wardens or Arcanists are the scourge of Cyro.

It did not kill tower troll duos+.

React · 5:52PM

>33% of damage coming from status effects with zero counterplay isn't healthy gameplay. Status effects are consistently top 3 damage received every single engagement it seems, even without pulse gankers present.

High damage with counterplay is good. High damage without counterplay is bad.

SneaK · 6:04PM

React wrote: »

>33% of damage coming from status effects with zero counterplay isn't healthy gameplay. Status effects are consistently top 3 damage received every single engagement it seems, even without pulse gankers present.

High damage with counterplay is good. High damage without counterplay is bad.

I’m not playing dumb I’m actually dumb. What does this CMX thing show me? Was this a duel or BG or what is this?

React · 6:11PM

SneaK wrote: »

React wrote: »

>33% of damage coming from status effects with zero counterplay isn't healthy gameplay. Status effects are consistently top 3 damage received every single engagement it seems, even without pulse gankers present.

High damage with counterplay is good. High damage without counterplay is bad.

I’m not playing dumb I’m actually dumb. What does this CMX thing show me? Was this a duel or BG or what is this?

Damage received in a scrappy cyrodiil fight with heavy line of sight against 3-5 players at different moments. Guess I should have given context, my fault.

Aces-High-82 · 6:15PM

xylena wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

There will be a number of crazy builds come next patch

And most of them will be running Shattered Path.

Why am I trying to help the balance of GH anyway? I should just say "yeah let the ring stay broken op" because that will drive even more players over to Vengeance!

Except NB and DK are miles ahead if Vengance goes live unchanged.

React wrote: »

>33% of damage coming from status effects with zero counterplay isn't healthy gameplay. Status effects are consistently top 3 damage received every single engagement it seems, even without pulse gankers present.

High damage with counterplay is good. High damage without counterplay is bad.

It will get worse when U50 goes live. Pure Warden Status effect build is pushing 80k on the training dummy.

SneaK · 6:16PM

React wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

React wrote: »

>33% of damage coming from status effects with zero counterplay isn't healthy gameplay. Status effects are consistently top 3 damage received every single engagement it seems, even without pulse gankers present.

High damage with counterplay is good. High damage without counterplay is bad.

I’m not playing dumb I’m actually dumb. What does this CMX thing show me? Was this a duel or BG or what is this?

Scrappy cyrodiil fight with heavy line of sight against 3-5 players at different moments. Guess I should have given context, my fault.

No I just still live in the gutter here on Xbox.

Did you win the fight/s?

Oblivion_Protocol · 6:43PM

xylena wrote: »

Why am I trying to help the balance of GH anyway? I should just say "yeah let the ring stay broken op" because that will drive even more players over to Vengeance!

No it won’t. When Vengeance was active, it died after a day and spent the rest of the week with one bar worth of population and everyone hopping onto one faction to stomp the map in a zerg. Meanwhile, GH is as packed as it ever was. You can totally enjoy Vengeance. I have nothing against that. But don’t pretend that when it goes live, it won’t become as dead as Ravenwatch in a month.

As for the mythic, look. I’ve played this game for six years. I’ve heard the doomsday whistle get blown almost every time some new mythic or gear set comes out. Hell, I’ve done it myself a time or two. And you know what happened? The thing came out, and people adapted to continue playing the very game they said would die if the thing came out. Subclassing aside, nothing ever truly affects the population of ESO long-term, and the devs are clearly trying to make up for the subclassing thing.

Wait until u50 comes out and see what happens. Worse comes to worse, just put the damn ring on and spread some status effects. Or learn how to fight it. Or play a different game that you’re actually satisfied by rather than screaming for nerfs to other people’s fun.