Concerns About ESO’s Future Direction and Solo Player Experience

Psyphiman · May 6

Quoted post has been removed

I might be a bit naive about the culture changing, I really don't know. But I do know, in my experience, the Night Market itself has not been toxic. If the culture has been as bad as you think it is, the NM is a positive thing for the community.

spartaxoxo · May 6

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Psyphiman wrote: »

Quoted post has been removed

Oddly enough, I had never done a Veteran Dungeon or Group Finder before the Night Market. I'm sure what you're describing about gatekeeping is true, but maybe the Night Market is part of the solution of changing that culture. It really has been a positive, cooperative experience for me.

same, people are far more cooperative here than Ive seen in trial guilds or dungeon guilds that get turned into trial guilds.

Its even gotten me to be nicer and be a proper tank again. I get annoyed when people try to derail my group for something else but if they ask politely I'll ask the group if they're okay with whatever puzzle or side quest someone wants to do, give the share and we simply do it. Same with skirmish fights that spawn which someone needs, bosses in other districts after we've made a full rotation, etc.

Other leads have been the exact same way. Really the only toxicity I've noticed is people joining the group and standing still to get the kills for the one eyed khajiit without doing anything, and I kick them immediately. Content creators are even encouraging this on their "tips" for the nightmarket crazily enough, but again, they're kicked as soon as I see them standing still for longer than twenty seconds on the map.

That's really unfortunate. I'll keep an eye out for it.

Ilsabet · May 6

I wonder how many solo players who dislike grouping are looking to get into veteran trials. Or is this not about solo players anymore?

LadyGP · May 6

Quoted post has been removed

Can also give a similar experience. I think I've done certain thing sin NM 3 or 4 times because people in my group didn't have them done yet.

AzuraFan · May 6

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Except that's what eso has been doing by trying to cater more to solo players, and arguably that's one of many reasons why communities have been leaving the game. And now, coincidentally, many are coming back when we're doing the opposite. As I said before, its not a new audience its the original eso player base, which was massive.

Agreed. I was just saying that tipping the scales the other way, by pushing away soloers in favour of people who like to group, would be the same as pushing groupers away in favour of soloers. We're on the same page.

ZOS_GregoryV · May 6

Greetings all,

After removing a handful of comments, we would like to ask that all members of the community please be sure to keep all posts stay on topic, remain civil and constructive, while also staying within the guidelines of the Community Rules.

Regards,
-Greg-

shadoza · May 7

Illbleed wrote: »

90% of the game is solo and this is the issue with ESO. There's so much easy and soloable content that game has become a theme park like solo game with a chatbox and hub glued to it with no real sense of danger or adventure in the world. I appreciate that the devs are finally adding group required content as it helps with community and people learning to play their classes more effectively in certain situations. NM while flawed, has shown there needs to be more focus on the Massively multi-player part of the game because it brought life to the group finder and overall community play aspect of ESO.

Oh and to the guy who said MMO never ment grouping, you should've told that to Brad McQuaid (rip) because he said grouping and playing together in a massive open world setting is exactly why he "the father of MMORPG" started the genre, he also said a MMORPG should have a balanced mix of soloable and group centric content, and the rewards should reflect the players focus because a solo player shouldn't rewarded equally to group players because it can ruin the overall experience of the games community, see ESO for a perfect example.

I disagree. I say McQuaid is wrong if he said that. He was NOT the father of MMORPG. EverQuest is not and has never been a great game is my opinion. It barely lasted 10 years because the concept 'player together: stay together' failed. I played the beginning MMOs not just read about them. Group was not there in the start. As I said the games didn't even have a chat option. Think in this: The many allegedly stated that solo players should not be rewarded equally to group players...because that ruins the game community. If you think well on the statement, you should realize the statement does not appreciate the solo style and that the speaker knew if players were not punished for avoiding group content, they would not utilize the group content thereby making said content useless.

Some folks who are attempting to argue in favor of more group content are failing to address some key issues reasonable.
A demand for better rewards for group content demonstrates that the content is not rewarding. When is the last time you seen a massive thread on how lame quest rewards might be? You won't see many if at any at all because the quest is rewarding on its own.

This game is 99% group friendly. Very little content blocks players from grouping to do the content.

How much of the game is solo friendly? Not as much as you may want to claim. The base quests, the main story line, the delves. After that point it gets questionable. Some DLC quests cannot be completed alone because the final boss is to aggressive. Some public dungeons can be soloed and some cannot be. Some WB can be soloed and some cannot be. Some dolmen (and those like it) can be soloed and most in the DLC areas cannot be. Some group dungeons can be done with a friend when your character gets high enough in CP to grabs some useful perks.

The game only feels solo friendly if one sticks to the base quests and overland. When a player has completed all the base and overland content, the game feels dead and unfriendly. Considering the age of the game, there are likely many players who have been around long enough run through the content multiple times.

Playing solo is not a result of lacking in skill or social ineptness. It is a personality trait, and real life attitude. No one is going to 'wake up' and say, wow, I am a group player now. Solo players will group when the content serves the attitude.

Arguing with mispresented claims is not winning the day for you. Very few people believe you solo group content naked. Even presenting a video where you have no gear does not prove you solo group content naked. Most players understand that CP settings, pots, jewelry, and mods that hide gear can be used behind the scenes. Most players have experienced a foe attacking their afk character without doing serious damage. Most of the first attacks are a targeting attack. The hard attacks and mechanics come in after you respond. Also saying you did content using overland gear while failing to see that most of the gear cannot be made without materials or skills that come late in the game.

The finally key point to address in an argument is that no one cares what you can do or what your friend can do. What they want to hear is how THEY can do it with what they have and what they can get their hands on. Much of what is called overland gear is gated behind group content because the style and/or materials come from that content.

Seeing how much of the Tome content, the Gold Pursuit and new content for 2026 is group orientated, it is a natural and honest reflex to wonder if there will be a place for the solo player in the future. Since group content gets better gear and enhancement options, solo players are also stepping backwards from PvP content. When one starts seeing their options and opportunities shrink, they do consider if it might be time to move on. Regardless of the OP position, I am concerned that ESO might be moving in a direction that does not encourage me to spend more.

dcrush · May 7

shadoza wrote: »

Illbleed wrote: »

90% of the game is solo and this is the issue with ESO. There's so much easy and soloable content that game has become a theme park like solo game with a chatbox and hub glued to it with no real sense of danger or adventure in the world. I appreciate that the devs are finally adding group required content as it helps with community and people learning to play their classes more effectively in certain situations. NM while flawed, has shown there needs to be more focus on the Massively multi-player part of the game because it brought life to the group finder and overall community play aspect of ESO.

Oh and to the guy who said MMO never ment grouping, you should've told that to Brad McQuaid (rip) because he said grouping and playing together in a massive open world setting is exactly why he "the father of MMORPG" started the genre, he also said a MMORPG should have a balanced mix of soloable and group centric content, and the rewards should reflect the players focus because a solo player shouldn't rewarded equally to group players because it can ruin the overall experience of the games community, see ESO for a perfect example.

I disagree. I say McQuaid is wrong if he said that. He was NOT the father of MMORPG. EverQuest is not and has never been a great game is my opinion. It barely lasted 10 years because the concept 'player together: stay together' failed. I played the beginning MMOs not just read about them. Group was not there in the start. As I said the games didn't even have a chat option. Think in this: The many allegedly stated that solo players should not be rewarded equally to group players...because that ruins the game community. If you think well on the statement, you should realize the statement does not appreciate the solo style and that the speaker knew if players were not punished for avoiding group content, they would not utilize the group content thereby making said content useless.

Some folks who are attempting to argue in favor of more group content are failing to address some key issues reasonable.
A demand for better rewards for group content demonstrates that the content is not rewarding. When is the last time you seen a massive thread on how lame quest rewards might be? You won't see many if at any at all because the quest is rewarding on its own.

This game is 99% group friendly. Very little content blocks players from grouping to do the content.

How much of the game is solo friendly? Not as much as you may want to claim. The base quests, the main story line, the delves. After that point it gets questionable. Some DLC quests cannot be completed alone because the final boss is to aggressive. Some public dungeons can be soloed and some cannot be. Some WB can be soloed and some cannot be. Some dolmen (and those like it) can be soloed and most in the DLC areas cannot be. Some group dungeons can be done with a friend when your character gets high enough in CP to grabs some useful perks.

The game only feels solo friendly if one sticks to the base quests and overland. When a player has completed all the base and overland content, the game feels dead and unfriendly. Considering the age of the game, there are likely many players who have been around long enough run through the content multiple times.

Playing solo is not a result of lacking in skill or social ineptness. It is a personality trait, and real life attitude. No one is going to 'wake up' and say, wow, I am a group player now. Solo players will group when the content serves the attitude.

Arguing with mispresented claims is not winning the day for you. Very few people believe you solo group content naked. Even presenting a video where you have no gear does not prove you solo group content naked. Most players understand that CP settings, pots, jewelry, and mods that hide gear can be used behind the scenes. Most players have experienced a foe attacking their afk character without doing serious damage. Most of the first attacks are a targeting attack. The hard attacks and mechanics come in after you respond. Also saying you did content using overland gear while failing to see that most of the gear cannot be made without materials or skills that come late in the game.

The finally key point to address in an argument is that no one cares what you can do or what your friend can do. What they want to hear is how THEY can do it with what they have and what they can get their hands on. Much of what is called overland gear is gated behind group content because the style and/or materials come from that content.

Seeing how much of the Tome content, the Gold Pursuit and new content for 2026 is group orientated, it is a natural and honest reflex to wonder if there will be a place for the solo player in the future. Since group content gets better gear and enhancement options, solo players are also stepping backwards from PvP content. When one starts seeing their options and opportunities shrink, they do consider if it might be time to move on. Regardless of the OP position, I am concerned that ESO might be moving in a direction that does not encourage me to spend more.

There may be a lot of things we disagree on but I actually think zone story quests should have better rewards than a piece of named overland gear. Some vet dungeons will only take a group 20 mins to complete the first time and reward (for example) a skin while completing the quest line for a zone will take several hours. As much as I love (some of) the story quests, saving the world again and again should be more rewarding.

Ilsabet · May 7

shadoza wrote: »

Also saying you did content using overland gear while failing to see that most of the gear cannot be made without materials or skills that come late in the game.

Just in case there's a misunderstanding, generally people use the term overland for gear sets that drop in world zones, rather than crafted gear that requires research and materials. For example, the noob alt character I've been running Night Market on is wearing Briarheart (from Wrothgar) and Unfathomable Darkness (from CWC). Overland sets tend to be relatively accessible because they can be farmed in overland zones or bought on guild traders if a person doesn't feel like farming or doesn't have the DLC they come from.

For the record, said noob character (who has around 400 CP and doesn't have a monster set or arena weapons, and whose only potions are the crown tripots from login rewards) just passed 5000 favor and has farmed all of his relics as part of group finder PUGs. So it's definitely doable in overland gear if a person is willing to make use of readily available group finder groups.

miteba · May 7

After watching a Spopes (ESO youtuber) video about the drama related to this topic/discussion and overall criticism about the Night Market being a group content, I had an urge to leave my opinion aswell, so ZoS can take their illations:
Last 3 or 4 years i played 90% of ESO content as a solo player, PvE and PvP wise.
I rarely do veteran dungeons, and even much more rarely do veteran trials.

1- I love the good vibes that the Night Market is giving me because it is new and different, challenging from any other content. (Writhing Wall event was new aswell but it didn't convice me at all)
2- You can play solo if you really want to: It's not easy but is totally doable, just search online for a tanky build. Obviously you need dedication for it, and if you build tanky, your DPS cannot be as high.
3- You can do many district quests without entering combat with a stealthy build (subclassing is awesome and if you dont like it, soon you will have class masteries, to not whine about it)
4- Requires a group to get better and quicker results (like getting relics, leads, better drops, etc) BUT groups/pugs are very easy to get INTO by using the "event* GROUP FINDER, and not zone chat as many people criticize.
And you can easily jump from group to group to your liking, and almost nobody is stressed out because it is an event)
99- TL/DR If Night Market was advertised as Group Content, why the hell people are bitchin about soloing it? Why the hell should it be easy? And where is the respect for so many forum users who were asking for more challenging ingame content??

So, many many thanks ZoS, for giving me more than enough reasons to return once again to Tamriel.
Thank you specifically for Subclassing; Night Market; Scribing; future class masteries and overland difficulty options; MUCH BETTER comunity comunication and feedback;
I hope you will improve soon our Cyrodiil PvP and review crown store prices. A new class (Yes, i am not afraid to ask for it) and a Scorpion mount.
Cheers @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

frogthroat · May 7

Ilsabet wrote: »

(who has around 400 CP and doesn't have a monster set or arena weapons, and whose only potions are the crown tripots from login rewards) just passed 5000 favor and has farmed all of his relics as part of group finder PUGs. So it's definitely doable in overland gear if a person is willing to make use of readily available group finder groups.

What a wonderful challenge. Here's what I theorycrafter with these huge limitations. Something that works with any character you might have, upgradable if needs be, only base game, no crafting, still survivable enough and can actually do something other than just block.

Need only base game (since Wrothgar is now free)
Any race, any class. Subclass if you like. This build will only get stronger when you add your racial and class passives.
CP 300
No scribing needed, but can be used to make this even stronger.
No crafting, except level 1 food. (Requires Provisioning level 10 because it's blue.)
No upgrading, except maybe weapons if you happen to have enough mats for at least purple.
Besides weapons, assuming the gear drops are blue. If you get purple or gold, even better.
No monster sets.
No trial gear.
No arena weapons.
Assuming Fighters Guild 6, Mages Guild 6, Alliance War intro quest is done.
Assuming Weapon and Armor skill lines are 50.
One glyph (main hand dagger) has been changed. Cheap at guild traders.
Using sets that drop from the event coffers and one piece that drops from the starting zone.
Food recipe can be obtained by doing two quests for Orzorga in Wrothgar.
For pots, you can use tristats from from login rewards, or stamina trash pots obtained from looting.
No racial passives, no class skills/passives are calculated here - so it will only get better when you add those.

How to obtain loot:

Use anything you happen to have on you right now.
Just get two Trainee pieces (one is enough if you happen to have a monster set piece) from a starting zone.
Try to keep one light, one medium and 5 heavy armor.
If you have Undaunted skill line, put as many skill points to the passives as your current level allows.
Swap piece by piece to the sets. Any piece, any trait will do and just upgrade to better traits once you obtain the pieces from the event boxes.
If you get lower quality gear use it anyway and swap to better when you come arcoss some. Green -> Blue -> Purple -> Gold.
If possible, keep big pieces (head, chest, legs) as Reinforced, others as Divines.
Don't worry if the traits and enchants don't match. Use whatever you have until you find better.
Any 1h weapons are fine, just swap them to daggers when you get them, charged if you find.
Any destro is fine, just swap to ice staff once you find one.
If you have mats to upgrade, feel free to upgrade. Otherwise, just wait for one to drop from the boxes.

What skills to swap:

I think all classes have access to major resolve. Swap Unstoppable Brute to your class' major resolve.
Swap bloodthirst to your class spammable.
If your class has a source of major brutality and sorcery, swap Degeneration to that.
If your class has a source of major savagery and prophecy, swap Camo Hunter to that.
If you happen to have Psijic's Race Against Time or something interesting in your class skills, feel free to swap Pulsar to it.
If you have something like Arcanist and you need both beam and Cephaliarch's Flail, just move your major brutality and sorcery source, or your class crit buff to back bar and drop Pulsar. (If using Camo Hunter, that must be on front bar.)
If your class has a strong execute, swap spin-to-win (Whirling Blades) to it.
If you have Fighters Guild 10, swap front bar ultimate to Flawless Dawnbreaker. Your class Ultimate would work, too, if it brings some passibe buffs. Back bar ultimate can be also some strong ultimate, like Languid Eye or Ice Comet.

Tips:

If swarmed by enemies, you are tankier on the back bar.
Blockade of Frost + Ele sus makes the enemy have both minor and major breach, reducing their armor by 9k. (By half, that is.)
Keep minor and major resolve up at all times.
Keep the weapon and spell damage, and crit chance buffs up at all times.
If you think you survive well enough, feel free to swap mundus from The Lady to The Thief for more damage.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=710904

Ilsabet · May 7

frogthroat wrote: »

Ilsabet wrote: »

(who has around 400 CP and doesn't have a monster set or arena weapons, and whose only potions are the crown tripots from login rewards) just passed 5000 favor and has farmed all of his relics as part of group finder PUGs. So it's definitely doable in overland gear if a person is willing to make use of readily available group finder groups.

What a wonderful challenge.

Yes, it was definitely a personal challenge and not me being lazy about getting him geared. >_>

I'm glad you were inspired though.

Those are some useful tips.

frogthroat · May 7

Ilsabet wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

Ilsabet wrote: »

(who has around 400 CP and doesn't have a monster set or arena weapons, and whose only potions are the crown tripots from login rewards) just passed 5000 favor and has farmed all of his relics as part of group finder PUGs. So it's definitely doable in overland gear if a person is willing to make use of readily available group finder groups.

What a wonderful challenge.

Yes, it was definitely a personal challenge and not me being lazy about getting him geared. >_>

I'm glad you were inspired though. Those are some useful tips.

And pretty ok stats even without racial and class passives:

Penetration sucks, of course, but that was to be expected. But ok resistances and health, and even some leftover for weapon damage and stamina.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=710904