Every Source of Information I Could Find Regarding Night Market's Advertisement as a Group Zone

Soarora · May 6

This would've been more relevant a few days ago but I felt like doing it now. I doubt this is everything but for clarity of information, here's every time I have seen ZOS mention Night Market being a group zone or otherwise more difficult than an overland zone and how they worded it:

Season Zero Preview—Night Market Event Zone - The Elder Scrolls Online

...Surviving long enough to uncover everything the Night Market holds is no easy feat, but no one says you have to do it alone.”
“...To aid you in your efforts to make the most of it, you’ll need stout allies…”
“...you can simply walk through the gates of one of the three connected districts and start exploring. You may want to find allies first, though– the Night Market is challenging content and best handled with others. You’re not required to group, but seeking help in some form would be wise.”
“...it’s not just your group fighting to survive and collect loot. So, imagine running into a dungeon and being able to high-five another group as they pass by,” notes Slama. “Or your group rushes in to save someone in over their head with a tough boss battle.”
“And lastly team up with others in the Starlit Plaza or scan the group finder tool before venturing out. If you do risk it alone, find where the action is at and lend a hand!”

The Night Market Event Zone Is Open! - The Elder Scrolls Online

“Note that many of the event zone’s challenges were designed for groups in mind, so be prepared for a tough fight if you’re venturing into the zone solo.”

Season Zero: Dawn and Dusk Is Now Live - The Elder Scrolls Online

“The first of it’s kind, the Night Market is a challenging new PvE zone…”

The Elder Scrolls Online – Season Zero
Note the amount of player characters shown during battles in the Night Market. Side note, ZOS, please stop spamming light attacks in your promotional videos… there’s an alarming amount of people who just spam light attacks. There’s actual abilities you can use that won’t fill up the screen… like most weapon spammables.

The Elder Scrolls Online – 2026 Seasons Direct

“...It’s encounter-heavy with an emphasis on group play, but don’t let that deter you from checking it out. Joining a group isn’t required, so it’s easy to hop in and play.”
“...Wandering Trial-Level bosses….”
“Work together with your friends or other heroes to bring victory via quests and activities in the event zone.”
There’s also a lot of other non-Night Market related goodies in here such as “Especially, like a lot of people play ESO and they play it solo. They play like a single-player game. We’re never going to get away from that.”

Missed the ESO Seasons Reveal? Watch (or Rewatch) It Here! - The Elder Scrolls Online

“And it’s designed for us to try new concepts, mechanics, and importantly, new difficulty levels. So it gives the team the space to be creative and gather feedback.”
“We wanted to experiment with a zone designed to be genuinely difficult. So this zone is specifically geared toward experienced plates and groups but it’s designed to be accessible by anyone. It’s a fantastic place to try group content for the first time. You don’t need a guild to have fun here, but we’re hoping that it’s a fun place for guilds to take on. And we believe that the zone’s difficulty will naturally encourage players to work together. To be clear, we talked about Overland Difficulty earlier… this is not Overland Difficulty. We are also doing Overland Difficulty later in 2026. But this zone is going to be more difficult.”

"No New Dungeons" thread from PTS

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

So grouping is not necessary at all (as in having a fixed group like in 4-player-dungeons)? Or are there some instanced locations within that Market where it's needed?

The zone is open but with a smaller player cap and much harder content. We don’t force you to group to enter but to do the content, you will want to.

There ARE instances though within that are capped at 4 players like dungeons (3) and 12 players (1). Much like dungeons and trials, you can enter solo but good luck

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

So it's not less, just different. One example that we haven't really talked about yet, but you will see when Night Market comes to the PTS this month, is there are three 4-Player instances (with 1 boss encounter) and one 12-player Trial encounter (1 boss) in that zone. We had a studio playtest today and we can also attest that the Night Market encounters are quite challenging! The Night Market is a unique experience and while it isn't a new dungeon or Trial, we think it'll scratch that same itch.

Thank you for the additional information on The Night Market! I’m glad to hear we weren’t forgotten about but I’m worried this will be another Bastion Nymic situation. Bastion Nymics are 4-person but they’re certainly not dungeons. For context on the kinds of things we do, my dungeon guild supports dungeons for pledges, challengers, hard mode progs, trifectas, motif farms (on hard mode) and mask farms (sometimes also on hard mode), but we also support Black Rose Prison and Infinite Archive.

I hope that the difficulty (at least optionally) will truly be high enough for those of us who do hard mode dungeons and it won’t just be a veteran level burnfest. I don’t expect Black Gem Foundry trifecta level of difficulty from a temporary event but something around Lep Seclusa Hard Mode would be nice.

Without going into too much detail (because you will see it soon on PTS), Night Market is a brand new type of zone that started with a group focus. There are activities solo players can do but they will be hard pressed to get to these activities without at least following groups of players around. The pack pulls you normally would see in overland are amped up here and there are lots of challenging monsters in the more open sections as well as the instanced sections. The goal is to give groups of players more activities in a dedicated zone where they can just go and have fun. For instance, one piece of internal feedback from someone that plays regularly in dungeon and trials was that they appreciated having activities for asymmetrical group comps. If you only have 5, 6, or 7 people online, you can jump in Night Market and have a good time.

Kevin's Recent Statement

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Athory wrote: »

Does ZoS have plans to turn ESO into something like a Dark Souls-style game?

Do they have any plan to push solo players out of the game?

To answer the core questions asked:

Q: Does ZoS have plans to turn ESO into something like a Dark Souls-style game?
A: No.

Q:Do they have any plan to push solo players out of the game?
A: No.

Just following up here generally. We hear the feedback from solo players about the Night Market content. We want to follow up with just few things.

We have no intention of pushing solo players out of the game. However, we started this year off by noting that we were going to try some new things. Night Market is one of them. While we always provide group players with trials, we also wanted to try something different. This was not to alienate solo players, but rather to add a new way to play. That being said, we do hear the feedback and have passed that on our teams for future consideration, especially for when Night Market comes back later in the year. Remember, part of the ethos of this event is to add to it over time.

As several have noted in this thread as well, we have a roadmap that is publicly available. The point of the roadmap is to showcase the content we have coming throughout the year. As is noted on the roadmap and current PTS testing, we have plenty of solo friendly content as well. Thieves Guild and Sheogorath Questlines, Favors system, Rumors system, Two Solo Dungeons, Sage's Vault, and the list can keep going. And that is all on top of existing content. We also understand that not every piece of content will be for everyone, and that is okay.

We know this may come off as a contentious statement, but it does bear repeating. While we are an Elder Scrolls game, we are also an MMO. Storytelling and the heart of solo adventure will always be an important part of ESO. However, some of our event/ event zone content will be focused on encouraging group play. It is the nature of the genre. Additionally, we know just like there are players who come for solo content, there are also players who come for group content and challenging group content. So we want to make sure we are providing new things for them as well.

We'll close with this. Last year, we saw many threads throughout the year asking us to address content and find new ways of renewing the gameplay experience, both in variety and challenge. We are in the first passes of this now with items like Night Market going live. But we will have content throughout the year to address both solo and group play within the community. The feedback is helpful to steer us on the right track. So thanks to everyone, both solo players and group players, who have given their constructive feedback regarding the Night Market. The team is taking a look at what can be done during this current running and what can be adjusted for the next run of the Night Market.

AND FINALLY... the introduction quest. Not the "choose your faction" quest, the quest that sends you into the districts and teaches you about the Night Market:

Player (to Unmoored Marifah): “Surely you have some tips for surviving in there.”
Unmored Marifah: “Yeah. Join a group. Don’t be like me.”
Myshka (iirc about Skirmishes): “Incidents of chaos that spin to life in the districts from time to time. No predicting when they’ll happen! And they take great numbers of toothy mortals to dispel. They’re Myshka’s favorite because he gets to see you all work together.”
Grasp-Kyn Stryd: “Opulent seals come from gilded enemies. Gilded keys can be found on brazen and argent enemies. It would be wise to pursue these higher tiers in groups. Mixed factions are fine. And you’ll fare all the better if you can coordinate roles.”
Grasp-Kyn Stryd: “Staying with groups can increase your chances of survival, but it’s no guarantee.”

Now here's the sources I found that don't mention the difficulty level/grouping at all:

Enjoy.

frogthroat · May 6

Those quotes in mind, it works exactly as advertised. You can go there solo, but it will be tough. Grouping is recommended and they list a myriad of ways how to do that. Excellent advices and clear to anyone with passable reading comprehension.

I like to go solo there. It is tough. And yeah, I understand they recommend grouping. That's why going solo is so much fun. I also like going there in a small group and in a large trial group. It's great that it has something for every playstyle.

BardokRedSnow · May 6

On top of all that the actual npcs in the Night Market also several times in their quests told you before you even entered the districts to group up lol. Very bluntly mind you.

I suppose most players don't listen to dialogue though.

Calastir · May 6

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

On top of all that the actual npcs in the Night Market also several times in their quests told you before you even entered the districts to group up lol. Very bluntly mind you.

I suppose most players don't listen to dialogue though.

"NPC's in the Night Market?" Can't tell if you're joking or not.
We're talking about The Night Market never being advertised as a group zone by ZOS before it went live.

jad11mumbler · May 6

Calastir wrote: »

We're talking about The Night Market never being advertised as a group zone by ZOS before it went live.

You mean like all the times OP gave examples of?

jad11mumbler · May 6

Calastir wrote: »

We're talking about The Night Market never being advertised as a group zone by ZOS before it went live.

Like, IDK, if ZoS made some sort of...Roadmap?
That they maybe released MONTHS in advance?

BardokRedSnow · May 6

Calastir wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

On top of all that the actual npcs in the Night Market also several times in their quests told you before you even entered the districts to group up lol. Very bluntly mind you.

I suppose most players don't listen to dialogue though.

"NPC's in the Night Market?" Can't tell if you're joking or not.
We're talking about The Night Market never being advertised as a group zone by ZOS before it went live.

So? The point is you have ample time before entering the night market proper to figure out that it is designed for groups. Even if you missed all mention of it from advertisements prior.

And no I'm not joking, if you actually listen to what the faction leaders say and the people they direct you to, aka npcs, they spell out for you several times over that it is indeed. For. Groups.

jad11mumbler · May 6

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I'll gladly group with you and go through the night market with you.

You were doubling down on either being wrong, or straight up lying. Either one of those is on you, instead of owning up to it, you leave with a "Nevermind, people would rather be snarky" when I gave an example of ZoS saying it was a group zone from the start.

Now did ZoS advertise it enough as being a group event zone?
Nope.

Without a giant splash on each ad saying "GROUP ZONE" most consumers will miss it, many of these yearly return players don't keep up with things like the roadmap, development cycle, etc behind the scenes.
They see an advert that says "New night market zone!" and come back to the game to check it out.

But that's how the average consumer is about anything. Hard to blame that entirely on ZoS.
But I've seen a bunch of ads that don't say it's a group zone so.

Deserrick · May 6

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Right. Some of the quotes in the first post advertise that it is possible to solo, with optional grouping to make it easier. This is different from how group activities like trials are advertised: "Trials are 12-player challenges for organized PvE group play, wherein groups are pitted against the most aggressive types of encounters Tamriel has to offer. If your group is successful in completing a Trial, you can earn unique rewards."

jad11mumbler · May 6

Deserrick wrote: »

Right. Some of the quotes in the first post advertise that it is possible to solo, with optional grouping to make it easier. This is different from how group activities like trials are advertised:

Because you can run around solo and do some of the content there?

You can do a lot of the dailies and progress without a group, if you avoid mobs and don't go near bosses.
Which you can do if you follow another group of players while you're "solo".

Trials, for the most part, you need to be in a group to do them.

Morvan · May 6

Deserrick wrote: »

Quoted post has been removed

Right. Some of the quotes in the first post advertise that it is possible to solo, with optional grouping to make it easier. This is different from how group activities like trials are advertised: "Trials are 12-player challenges for organized PvE group play, wherein groups are pitted against the most aggressive types of encounters Tamriel has to offer. If your group is successful in completing a Trial, you can earn unique rewards."

Some good portion of NM is soloable, but it's quite a grey area, it will really depend on what you're trying to do and your skill/build as a player, grouping does make everything melt though, so I don't see much of a point in soloing it unless I'm trying to do a quick daily or to challenge myself.

Aydh · May 6

Was pretty clearly advertised as group content from the get-go. And as a player who does both solo and group play, this event has been outstanding. In my circles, now that people are understanding it better, there is less complaining and more interest in doing the content.

frogthroat · May 6

Deserrick wrote: »

Right. Some of the quotes in the first post advertise that it is possible to solo, with optional grouping to make it easier.

Yes, if we ignore everything else, including the roadmap from the stream where they announced Night Market, and keep in mind only those few quotes that without any other context would give us this indication... yeah, they are still right. It is possible to solo. It's not easy, but it's doable. I can't solo Argent bosses, 2 of the 3 roaming bosses or Skirmishes, but a good player might. Not everything is feasible as solo and much easier if you group.

But they did mention it's a group zone from the very first moment they announced it in a stream so it's a moot point. But still, yeah, you can solo a lot of it.

frogthroat · May 6

Quoted post has been removed

As someone who likes to solo stuff that is not even meant to be soloed, such as DLC group dungeons, I also took this as a mere suggestion:

GROUP EVENT ZONE
The Night Market

But I understand and accept that it is not designed for soloing. I still do it, but I understand if I have trouble, it's on me.

frogthroat · May 6

Quoted post has been removed

I don't think this will be the charm just yet. Not as long as you request these responses. If you double down and then add "pls don't @ me" at the end guess what's going to happen.

An example of the opposite: yesterday or day before I said something stupid in a conversation about the Shattered Paths Signet in PVP. People responded. I checked it and noticed I was wrong. What did I do? Did I double down and asked people to leave me alone? No, I took responsibility of my words, said I was wrong in a honest and non-sarcastic way.

Guess how many people kept responding to me after that? None.

JemadarofCaerSalis · May 6

Also, just to point out that not everyone sees every piece of media put out about new updates.

I only saw two places where it was mentioned that it was meant for groups and both times it was made to sound like it would be on the order of craglorn where you CAN go solo and even kill some things, and where you can just join a zerg running around. Not that grouping would be mandatory for 90% of the player base and about 99% of the content.

I knew that it would be difficult, but I thought I would at least be able to kill one mob on my own, which wasn't the case, and I only saw a group in there already 2/5ths of the times I went in there. When I checked the group finder, there was 1 group that was just 'lets group up' and every other group was for either a trial or killing a specific boss. Which I didn't need.

AScarlato · May 6

I'm not sure how everyone was so surprised, at least here we've had discussions quite a while expecting this to be group content or at least needing others around. It's one of the reasons I wondered if I'd even participate at all since I normally solo.

I knew this long in advance. It's fine some people are surprised because they weren't paying attention that much, but that's not the same thing as there being an obvious roadmap and no prior communication. Expectations were there and clear as day.

Vulkunne · May 6

Would also say it's not just about regular grouping because Night Market groups are pushed harder than regular groups, even though they are larger. I think many are 'used to' either getting out of grouping or just not taking the group construct seriously as something tangible and necessary for a clear; something you have to work at and pay attention to.

To me it really feels like we've gone back in time a bit to have groups used to be where people had to care more and work a bit harder, not just at their roles but pay attention to the group as well. And you know that may just be the best thing about Night Market that I've seen so far.

BardokRedSnow · May 6

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Also, just to point out that not everyone sees every piece of media put out about new updates.

This is why I said even if you missed that, literally every npc you have to interact with prior to going into the districts also tell you its group content. You hear this 4 times or more before you ever step foot in a district.

ShutUpitsRed · May 6

I'm getting the sense that part of the community drama that goes down every time there's a major update is sourced in a lack of basic reading comprehension... ty for putting all this together, OP! It's pretty clear that the messaging was, you technically can go in alone, but it's a "group event zone" at the end of the day... in big bold letters lol.

BretonMage · May 6

ShutUpitsRed wrote: »

I'm getting the sense that part of the community drama that goes down every time there's a major update is sourced in a lack of basic reading comprehension... ty for putting all this together, OP! It's pretty clear that the messaging was, you technically can go in alone, but it's a "group event zone" at the end of the day... in big bold letters lol.

I guess a lot of it is interpretation. Perhaps some players see "encouraged to group" and think it's 4-man dungeon level of difficulty (which can reasonably be soloed if you're experienced). I was lucky to have seen people mention it was trial-level difficulty, so I knew it wasn't going to be anywhere near soloable for me.

Athory · May 6

Quoted post has been removed

Why do players, not all, but a lot of them, more than ZOS should even allow, exclude casual/low DPS players, HA players, new players, learning players, etc., from joining them in vet Dungeons\Trials from Group Finder? (Group content)

All players in the [snip] market are there to help each other. Why not in vet dungeons/trials from Group Finder too? That argument only holds up for people who don’t really look at the game.

When the [snip] market ends, all the gatekeeping, mocking, exclusion, etc., will come back. So don’t tell me "other players" are there to help. That’s a lie! Some players help others, but not all.

Soarora · May 6

Quoted post has been removed

I didn’t intend for it to be targeted at anyone specifically, but it is possible it was. I just was having a Hermaeus Mora “I must have The Knowledge” moment hahaha. But thank you for the wisdom.

jad11mumbler wrote: »

Calastir wrote: »

We're talking about The Night Market never being advertised as a group zone by ZOS before it went live.

Like, IDK, if ZoS made some sort of...Roadmap?
That they maybe released MONTHS in advance?

Ah, heck, I forgot that one and I literally saw it about 2 days ago. Thank you for posting it!

Quoted post has been removed

Yeah, that was funny. I intended for this to be neutral and just a source of information, but personally, I do think it was advertised as a group zone… just more clearly so in some sources than others.

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Also, just to point out that not everyone sees every piece of media put out about new updates.

I only saw two places where it was mentioned that it was meant for groups and both times it was made to sound like it would be on the order of craglorn where you CAN go solo and even kill some things, and where you can just join a zerg running around. Not that grouping would be mandatory for 90% of the player base and about 99% of the content.

I hadn’t seen some of these sources either. Fun fact, before PTS, me and a few endgame friends thought Night Market would be too easy for us to have fun in.

BretonMage wrote: »

ShutUpitsRed wrote: »

I'm getting the sense that part of the community drama that goes down every time there's a major update is sourced in a lack of basic reading comprehension... ty for putting all this together, OP! It's pretty clear that the messaging was, you technically can go in alone, but it's a "group event zone" at the end of the day... in big bold letters lol.

I guess a lot of it is interpretation. Perhaps some players see "encouraged to group" and think it's 4-man dungeon level of difficulty (which can reasonably be soloed if you're experienced). I was lucky to have seen people mention it was trial-level difficulty, so I knew it wasn't going to be anywhere near soloable for me.

Yeah, some of the wording is more clear than others (and of course, there’s sources that don’t mention grouping at all). To me, I get a sense they wanted solo players to at least try it so they didn’t just say “group-only”. But as someone else here said, technically it’s right— you can do the quests solo without even killing anything (except for one quest).

AScarlato · May 6

Athory wrote: »

Quoted post has been removed

Why do players, not all, but a lot of them, more than ZOS should even allow, exclude casual/low DPS players, HA players, new players, learning players, etc., from joining them in vet Dungeons\Trials from Group Finder? (Group content)

All players in the [snip] market are there to help each other. Why not in vet dungeons/trials from Group Finder too? That argument only holds up for people who don’t really look at the game.

When the [snip] market ends, all the gatekeeping, mocking, exclusion, etc., will come back. So don’t tell me "other players" are there to help. That’s a lie! Some players help others, but not all.

Then maybe we need more content like NM and not less, where people feel they have to exclude other people due to the content design.

Oblivion_Protocol · May 6

Athory wrote: »

Why do players, not all, but a lot of them, more than ZOS should even allow, exclude casual/low DPS players, HA players, new players, learning players, etc., from joining them in vet Dungeons\Trials from Group Finder? (Group content)

All players in the [snip] market are there to help each other. Why not in vet dungeons/trials from Group Finder too? That argument only holds up for people who don’t really look at the game.

Because vet content isn’t casual player content. It’s intended to be challenging and require a degree of knowledge and effort within the game. If you can blow through a veteran trial wearing a bunch of overland gear with an unoptimized rotation, then what’s the point of separating it from normal content?

As for the Night Market, I genuinely don’t understand the complaints. The devs have practically hit players over the head with the fact that this is intended to be group content; therefore you should group up to get through it.

Morvan · May 6

Athory wrote: »

Quoted post has been removed

Why do players, not all, but a lot of them, more than ZOS should even allow, exclude casual/low DPS players, HA players, new players, learning players, etc., from joining them in vet Dungeons\Trials from Group Finder? (Group content)

All players in the [snip] market are there to help each other. Why not in vet dungeons/trials from Group Finder too? That argument only holds up for people who don’t really look at the game.

When the [snip] market ends, all the gatekeeping, mocking, exclusion, etc., will come back. So don’t tell me "other players" are there to help. That’s a lie!

That's because the Night Market is after all, so accessible that as long as you have a tank and 1-2 healers you'll be fine. No need for "gatekeeping."

Vet trials on the other hand can require a minimum threshold to be smooth/completable, people will exclude certain builds from their runs because the odds of it turning into a big waste of time is very high if they don't. This isn't any hidden agenda against casual players, it's just trying to avoid failure.

Good news is, there are lots of guilds out there willing to run vet trials with newer players as a learning experience, you just can't have the expectancy that people farming gear on PUGs will do the same, most of those players are running the same thing for so long they just want to be done with it asap.

ShutUpitsRed · May 6

Athory wrote: »

Quoted post has been removed

Why do players, not all, but a lot of them, more than ZOS should even allow, exclude casual/low DPS players, HA players, new players, learning players, etc., from joining them in vet Dungeons\Trials from Group Finder? (Group content)

All players in the [snip] market are there to help each other. Why not in vet dungeons/trials from Group Finder too? That argument only holds up for people who don’t really look at the game.

When the [snip] market ends, all the gatekeeping, mocking, exclusion, etc., will come back. So don’t tell me "other players" are there to help. That’s a lie! Some players help others, but not all.

Wasn't one of your earlier arguments that you didn't like feeling "used" by others to complete content lol? What do you even mean, more exclusion than ZOS should "even allow" - does freedom of association matter or not? People who perform poorly in higher end group content are going to be excluded, as they should be; weak links break teams. If you're going to play harder content, you have to get at least a little good, or it's unfair to the other players you're supposed to be working with. Getting help from other players doesn't mean going in and getting a full carry because you can't be bothered to learn to play the game. Ask ChatGPT to define "teamwork" for you.

Toanis · May 6

Tra_Lalan wrote: »

So when was it advertised as a solo zone? Can you show us any examples of that?

It's not about it being a solo zone, but about soft grouping, like everywhere else in the game where something is hard to solo,

“...you can simply walk through the gates of one of the three connected districts and start exploring. You may want to find allies first, though– the Night Market is challenging content and best handled with others. You’re not required to group, but seeking help in some form would be wise.”

“...It’s encounter-heavy with an emphasis on group play, but don’t let that deter you from checking it out. Joining a group isn’t required, so it’s easy to hop in and play.”

"... If you do risk it alone, find where the action is at and lend a hand!”

The reality is, you can't just "hop in". The instancing makes sure there is nobody there to "lend a hand", there are no groups you can fight alongside and eventually get invited. if you can't or don't want to do the Night Market solo, you have to join a group using chat or group finder and jump to their instance. This makes it instanced group content. Going in there solo is like entering a trial through the front door and "start exploring".

And soloing, dependent on your gear and experience fighting even trash mobs is either impossible or simply not worth the time and effort. Eventually, you'll just try to run to quest objectives not bothering to fight back or fix broken gear.

esotoon · May 6

jad11mumbler wrote: »

Because you can run around solo and do some of the content there?

You can do a lot of the dailies and progress without a group, if you avoid mobs and don't go near bosses.
Which you can do if you follow another group of players while you're "solo".

That’s what I thought would be the case, but in practice, as a solo player, I have yet to enter a district and have any group be in there with me. I've played every day, multiple times each day, at all different times of day, on both EU and NA (PC), and in every instance I’ve been put in, it’s been just a couple other solos players in their with me at most.

To be clear, I’m not complaining about NM being group content. But if the idea was solo players could tag along behind a group, then the algorithm that’s putting solo players into instances, doesn’t seem to be working well.

Arunei · May 6

Here's the problem that most don't seem to understand or maybe just not be thinking about. All the promotional stuff said grouping was easier but not required, and that the Zone was "specifically designed" for groups AND experienced solo players.

Except nothing indicated what level of experience. Ever. ZOS never once mentioned that "hey this is effectively a Public 36-man Trial!" or anything else to imply what the actual strength of things was supposed to be was. What the experience level of players was supposed to be. It was all kept very vague. Yes, we knew it would be "hard" but I think most of us were figuring something more along the lines of Vet Dungeons, maybe Vet DLC Dungeons. And we certainly weren't expecting the trash packs to hit like they do or be damage sponges like they are.

So when we get in and test it on the PTS, we're shocked when the first trash packs annihilate us within seconds. I tried several times on a solid Oakensorc using Sergeant's Mail and Deadly Strike. I've seen other people mention using HA builds too but I was barely able to get my DoTs down and do a HA before I was killed. Even just trying to do HA and spamming my heal was ineffective and I still died without putting a dent in any of the mobs.

Maybe if ZOS had ACTUALLY COMMITTED to saying just what level of content this was, people wouldn't have been so irritated. But in each PTS weekly report thing they only kept saying the same generic copy-pasted response in regards to the difficulty, that it was meant to be challenging. EVEN THEN they never actually took the time to explain what "experienced player" was supposed to mean, what level the content was *meant* to be at. At every turn where they could have explained it to make it clear they failed.

And then they said they adjusted the difficulty after everything. But when the NM goes live...it seems like it's the same thing, that things weren't tuned down at all, and even THEN still NO explanation of just what difficulty level this thing was meant to be. Keep in mind a LOT of people don't have access to the PTS to test it, like all of Console or people who don't have the space for it. There are people who don't have time for it. There are people who don't have any idea it exists. There are people who don't read the articles or watch the livestreams. There are a ton of people who had no way of know what it was like on the PTS, so when THEY go in and find what it's like, since there isn't any indication of what the difficulty level actually is, of course they're going to largely have the same reaction as a number of us did on the PTS.

And it'll keep happening. As more people start playing or come back from breaks or whatever, they'll try the NM (if it's around at that time) and find nothing indicating what difficulty level this is meant to be at. Only vague statements about how it's encouraged to group but not required for experienced players.

Yeah, you can group, but even grouping has a slew of issues that people seem to be acting disingenuous about. For one, the whole thing about faction-specific quests not being able to be shared, and thus people trying to do different quests. The popcap being spread over the whole Zone makes finding groups to just follow hard or to find people to group at all. The fact that if a group is too far in you won't be able to get to them anyway. The fact that if you die you might not be able to get back to your group because of trash packs being too strong. The fact that trying to use the LFG tool has groups that are only trying to do specific things that a person going in might not be wanting to do, and the fact that making their own group for X or Y can get people who ignore that and want to do other things. The fact that people can wind up leaving to the point when a group is too small to continue on. The fact that whole groups can be too weak to clear stuff. A lot of people who are solo by nature don't tend to have many, if any, Guilds they can ask for help, but even being in a Guild or two doesn't mean you're guaranteed to have access to people who want to do the NM. There are a lot of problems with grouping that people who aren't seeing or having issues with are just dismissing like it isn't happening or a problem. It's like when there are actual technical problems with the game but you have people going "well I'M not having issues so it must be everyone elses' computers or other personal hardware/software". Just because you don't see a problem doesn't mean it doesn't exist and the whole argument of "just group" needs to have that kept in mind.

I've said this before, but this is like Craglorn all over again. At least in ore-nerf Craglorn you could go in even on an unoptimized build and do stuff as long as you were smart. This is worse than pre-nerf Craglorn. Which they eventually wound up nerfing because people weren't engaging with it since it was too hard, and people weren't able to do the content because so few people were around to group for the stuff that needed it. And the NM is compounded and made worse than Craglorn was by being limited time, with a whole House as a reward that you can get for just doing the intro quest but surprise, you need to do a number of things to actually unlock certain features like the other wings and the treasury.

ZOS_GregoryV · May 6

Greetings all,

After removing a handful of comments, we would like to ask that all members of the community please ensure posts remain civil, constructive, and within the Community Rules.

Regards,
-Greg-