OccultNerd wrote: »

I've seen people asking for a solo or easier version of NM, why? Especially after the majority of players wanted harder content!

The majority do not want harder content. It was a the same handful of players in the pinned overland thread asking for more difficulty. That is far from the majority of players.

Plenty of players are grouping up from what I have seen so far in game (EU)

I'm primarily a solo player and just been joining pugs via the group finder.

My issue isn't grouping. The issue I'm finding is the difficulty of some of the contet (skirmishes, certain bosses) is making groups ineffective. Then the fights take too long or you get a wipe and the group just crumbles. I have yet to be in a skirmish group in The Parch that doesn't have people quit halfway through the fight. Unlike trials or dungeons, there's little incentive to stay in the group (or any penalty for leaving). I have had some good groups, but it's about 50-50 so far. And this is strictly the A-level content (brazen and argent bosses or skirmishes).

I have finished all three districts on both PCNA and PCEU doing nothing but pugging through Group Finder. Anyone that wants to complete Night Market can complete Night Market. That being said, it still isn't that much fun due to the density of trash packs and the gimmicks of The Parch with the sand walls and the dark areas of the Sorrow zone. I also think that whomever is in charge of quest markers needs to get a stern talking to about actually putting them where the quest target actually is located.

SilverBride wrote: »

OccultNerd wrote: »

I've seen people asking for a solo or easier version of NM, why? Especially after the majority of players wanted harder content!

The majority do not want harder content. It was a the same handful of players in the pinned overland thread asking for more difficulty. That is far from the majority of players.

This is a lie

Just because you don’t see people asking for it, especially in the forums, doesn’t mean people don’t want it. Truth is, the audience that Zos has culminated is pretty casual so there’s a large portion that don’t. True. But the ones that do, like myself, usually don’t come here on the forums at all. Same reason why pvpers aren’t here usually, and why I did come here finally to participate. Lack of representation from the pvp side which leads to Zos ruining things because they listen to those who aren’t even pvping here.

Pvpers and people who play harder content at large find the forums cringe, because of the community complaining and asking to nerf things, saying things are too hard etc.

And those players aren’t gonna just suck it up and accept the changes, they’re gonna simply stop playing and move on to a more exciting game. Gamers like challenges, and that audience outnumbers those here that don’t.

Zos knows where the money is. There’s no growth appealing to a dwindling audience.

Gabriel_H wrote: »

There's a difference between those who are complaining and those who don't want to group. Grouping negates Ring of the Pale Order

Reaving blows doesn't, but you don't really need a group in the main market. There may need a better way to instance solos/zergs.

Overall the group finder has been shining this event. It varies greatly in quality of experience. Some groups one raid stomps, and sometimes two/24 struggle bus.

I'm intimidated (I rarely do vet content, let alone vet DLC dungeon/trials) and hesitant to group up, even with guildmates or friends when I get no response.

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

OccultNerd wrote: »

I've seen people asking for a solo or easier version of NM, why? Especially after the majority of players wanted harder content!

The majority do not want harder content. It was a the same handful of players in the pinned overland thread asking for more difficulty. That is far from the majority of players.

This is a lie

Actually it isn't. Go take a look at that monster of a thread. It's mostly the same handful of players. Also, I never ever heard anyone in zone chat, or guild chat, or anywhere in game complaining that the game was too easy.

People are frustrated because the Zone was marketed as something where grouping was encouraged but not required, grouping would make it easier but you could also go in solo if you were fine with a challenge. Except that's not the case, the Zone practically requires grouping unless you're one of those top percent of players who can solo things like Dragons.

From what I've seen said over and over on the forums, there's also problems with grouping. Many people have brought up how instances are empty or near-empty, and groups they try to make take a while to fill. There's the fact that if you join a group too far in, you more than likely won't be able to reach them because of the overtuned trash packs in your way. There's the fact that certain quests can't be shared so people might have different goals. There are other things that I can't think of right now but basically it's essentially a group Zone where actually grouping can be very hard.

Also the people stating that the forums are just a minority of players and claiming they're seeing a lot of support ingame need to realize they're also only seeing a minority of the game's playerbase's reactions. So trying to dismiss the number of people bringing up concerns or giving negative feedback by saying "well the majority of the feedback I'm seeing ingame is positive!" is both disingenuous and being hypocritical. It's true that most people who play the game likely don't even know the forums exist, let alone bother coming here. But you're also not going to see anywhere near eveeyone ingame talking in Zone or the Guild chats either, so...

And it's not just people here on the forums voicing dissatisfaction and concerns, it's on Steam and Reddit as well.

Don't people remember Craglorn? One reason it got nerfed was because it was too hard and people weren't going there. NM will go the same way, forced grouping for Zones had already proven to not be what a majority of people want even back then.

I'll genuinely be surprised if the NM isn't largely dead within the next several weeks. Not even simply because of the difficulty and instances already being reported as ghost towns more often than not, but it happens with more group-oriented content EVERY big release. Dragons. Harrowstorms. Those fiery Incursions in High Isle I think it is that idr the name of. People who enjoy the content will do it for a while and then either get everything they wanted or get bored and stop doing it, eventually making it harder for people who can't solo the things to do because finding groups of people doing the stuff is hard.

DenverRalphy wrote: »

The angst you see on the forums isn't really reflected in game. I'm seeing an overwhelming positve reaction to the NM in game.

Honestly this. I usually hate groups in this game. It's practically why I quit ages ago. But this time around? My gosh. Feels like old times. I truly hope they keep this up. If they do, I might actually start subbing again and get season passes.

Grec1a wrote: »

When Solstice came out on ESO+ a month or two ago, I was constantly forming and joining groups in chat, sharing quests etc. - it was very friendly and pleasant. I didn't need to form an 'official' group for the siege camps, as there were always at least a couple of players at each camp to help take the boss down.

I was expecting the same kind of experience with the Night Market. I didn't miss the fact that it was advertised as 'group content', and I wasn't put off. However the chat was dead, I saw one other player (who was as squishy as I was) and the one and only group in the Group Finder was so far away I died at least 20 times trying to get to them and then gave up.

It's too dismissive to say that players who don't like the Night Market missed the memo, or are anti-social and hate grouping. There's no soft grouping; zone chat is presumably 'per instance' rather than zone wide, so no finding any help there; and you may need multiple players for even the easiest faction quests (two players and our companions couldn't get past the trash mobs in my experience), which players might feel embarrassed posting a request in group finder for.

If people are enjoying it, fine. I gave it a crack and now I'm enjoying not doing it!

This is how I feel.

I prefer to play solo and not group, because I don't always know how much time I will have to play and groups don't always have the same agenda as I do, so I just don't.

I am not opposed to it and have and will group when it is needed.

I, however, very much prefer soft grouping where I can join a large party of people who are just all headed in the same direction, and that is what I thought this would be like. That there would be groups of people running around, and I could join them.

When I did find groups like that (only twice), yeah, it was fun, I got some stuff done, and things were generally okay.

But the other three times I tried it, the zones were empty. One time, the first, there were a lot of people in the Night Market portion of the instance, but only one or two in the skittering precinct where I was sent. The second time, again Skittering, I saw one other person running around the resurrection point, and no fights going on down below. The third time, the night market itself was empty, had like 5 players running around, and the zones, the other two besides skittering, each had like one person running around in them. I just went and ran the zone to get the main quest for my faction done so I can try to do dailies if I ever felt like it. Dying several times in the process (twice deliberately so I could get to the portal out of that zone)

I am planning on using the GF if it has any groups in it, but as someone whose build is a mess, I feel somewhat hesitant to join a random group, because you never know what you are going to get, plus I have heard people talk about how they have joined groups, and those groups are further in the districts, and they were never able to make it to them. Or the group wipes and then disbands.

SilverBride wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

OccultNerd wrote: »

I've seen people asking for a solo or easier version of NM, why? Especially after the majority of players wanted harder content!

The majority do not want harder content. It was a the same handful of players in the pinned overland thread asking for more difficulty. That is far from the majority of players.

This is a lie

Actually it isn't. Go take a look at that monster of a thread. It's mostly the same handful of players. Also, I never ever heard anyone in zone chat, or guild chat, or anywhere in game complaining that the game was too easy.

I've occasionally heard a few players in zone chat complain about the game being too easy.

But I don't think the majority want harder content, because if that were so then I'd expect to hear a lot more complaints about it in zone chat.

Mind you, I have no numbers to go by, just my gut feeling.

The problem is, whenever harder content does get added to the game, often you'll hear players saying that the difficulty is nice but the rewards aren't worth it, so they're going to skip doing it.

That's what happened when Bastion Nymic came out, for instance.

And now, with the Night Market, you hear players complaining about the rewards, and saying that they're going to skip out as soon as they've earned all of the achievements, completed the Golden Pursuits, fully expanded their free house, etc.

I'm already experiencing districts which seem pretty empty of other players, but that might be a problem with instancing, not to mention the times of day or night when I'm playing on either server (PCEU and PCNA). I tried the "port to a fellow guildie" suggestion, and that seemed to help.

But even when I do see other players, more often than not they'll hang back and watch me get wrecked if I pull a "trash" mob near one of the bosses, thinking that if I start fighting then others will join in. I think that's what the OP is talking about-- there might be other players nearby in the district, but many of them seem very reluctant to jump into the fights.

The funny thing is, even if I'm not "hard grouped" with anyone else, just "soft grouped" in the general vicinity of other players, if we're fighting mobs and bosses then I'll start racking up "kills" (for the "kill 25/50/75 enemies" daily) for enemies killed by the other players, even if I never scored a hit on those enemies.

I wonder if that might be part of why some players are just hanging back on the outskirts of fights and not joining in-- because they're getting passive kills just by being "soft grouped" with players who are doing the actual fighting? I don't know.

Eliahnus wrote: »

Night Market is a masterpiece.
Only, the trial is unforgiving, one small mistake of one single player and it's a wipe.

we started our run missing a healer until we got to 2nd phase of running the ball around and tho it was a pug group we did it 1st pull man down from the start ... ik if i was just in a great group or playing with others that liked being challenged but we got it done

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

The Group Finder - and group content in general - has the serious flaw that you need other people to be on to play it. Even with the content being new I have to wait until afternoon/evening to get anything meaningful done. That will get worse as it gets older and people finish with it/get bored, which is why I pushed myself to finish the Trial this weekend.

Also, they really need to rethink making the keys for the dungeon single use per completion - I had finished the Parch dungeon and then got in a different group for the other two, and was unable to help them get the Parch so we could go on to the Trial together. And if I want to go for any of the side achievements I have to get the keys again, so I probably won’t bother. I doubt I’m the only one and that will make the dropoff faster.

i think they should have done it so we got master keys for argents 1st time around then a master key for gilded 2nd time around so that there was a progression to the system not just full on grind to get them everytime

To answer the OP’s question, it’s not that I don’t like grouping for NM. It’s just that my playtime is limited and sporadic and can be interrupted at any moment by RL issues that it’s hard for me to group because I may have to drop out at a moment’s notice and I don’t want to inconvenience other players. The only time I’ll risk it is when I think there’s a chance I won’t be interrupted long enough to finish.