Lets mend the divide and get guud together

newnamtab · May 3

I want to see if we can get some tips and tricks to getting better.

With the wedge that the Night Market has jagged in between casuals player and end game players, maybe we should try to mend that divide.

Personally I'm a casual player, struggling extremely with getting beyond a somewhat mediocre level og combat prowess.

I don't think the game itself teaches you, how to become better, as you hit a certain level, around 50 CP 160, and from then on, its "figure it yourself"

And where this is fine for a lot of players, who actually CAN figure that out, THATS great.

But a lot of us are left behind, without actually knowing how to progress from here.

I think the progression goes something like being able to handle:

Overland mobs enemies
Delves mobs and bosses
World bosses (from the easier to tougher ones)
Public Dungeons
4-player Dungeons(Normal and the Veteran)
Arenas
12-player Trial

(You may think it differently, but thats not the point for this post

)
At some point you reach a level, where you stop becoming better, because the game doesn't quite offer progression further.

I can handle somewhere between a normal 4-dungeon and Craglorn.
But when I end up in a normal 4-dungeon, I don't get the chance to learn anything, because someone is ALWAYS rushing through by simply carving and melting through every dungeon I get in.
I can't even get my buffs up, let alone get debuffs on enemies, before they're dead and gone.

Thats the kind of level I wanna reach.
And then at some point go on to Veteran.
And I wanna be able to do PvP aswell, but I don't learn anything from not even getting within range of other players.

I simply don't know how.

So in that spirit, my dear reader:

PLEASE SHARE YOUR TACTICS ON HOW TO GET GUUDER THAN MEDIOCRE
- Not builds (we've seen them all)
- Not rotations (same as with build)
- Not race or classes (doesnt matter)
- Simply tactics and human skills, that makes you melt enemies.
- How did you become an end game player?

Help us all get better, PLEASE.

agelonestar · May 3

The main problem with random groups - and quite a lot of non-random groups too! - is people not working AS A GROUP.

1. If someone's lying dead, rez them. The number one reason a group wipes is from gradual attrition, where no-one bothers to get other players back in the fight. Don't leave it to someone else - JFDI !
2. If you spot someone in trouble, especially in large fights (e.g. in night Market) then lend a hand. Throw out a heal if you have one. Help them take down the mob or whatever they're struggling with. Working together makes light work of the enemy.
3. Be constructive. There's little point is yelling at the Tank - help the Tank understand what's needed in a positive and constructive way. Helping people play the game in the most effective way makes you more likely to succeed, the group more likely to achieve its aims, and others around you will be grateful.
4. If you're going to assume the Crown, then LEAD. Tell people what you want, where you're going, and involve them in the objectives. It's called communication!

Hope that helps

birdmann1230 · May 3

All of this is correct. The game has gotten so easy because damage is high and nobody is willing to help new players learn the mechanics and how to build toons and play. She I started the dps was so much lower you still had to do mechs. Definitely recommend finding a guild to help, which is what I did when I wanted to start learning dungeons. I am running mostly a five year old build in the night market with my group and outliving many becuse of this and I hope this new harder stuff helps people learn that again - high damage isn’t all there is. I haven’t had non-trial content that was difficult in a long time.

tomofhyrule · May 3

Best thing to do is join a guild. A lot of people are extremely anti socializing, but there are social guilds whose entire purpose it is to help players get started. Many social guilds exist that will have events where they go help players do content like WB runs or dungeons that many newer players can't do alone, and some even have training sessions designed to help bring people up to the level for higher level content.

Another thing: just because you find a build online doesn't mean you're getting everything out of it from putting it on. I see this a lot from people using Oakensoul builds - they put on the ring and then expect that they're getting the max value from it. But Oakensoul, like every build, still does have a learning curve - I have seen two people with the exact same build, sets, gear, everyting do an Oakensoul parse, and one person is clearly doing twice as much DPS as the other. Why? Because the one player is better at managing how and when to cast skills. Practice really does make perfect.

Above all, death is not failure, it's a learning opportunity. A lot of people are scared to be in a situation where they could die, or they think that if they die people will get toxic. But think of it instead as a way to learn. Sweaty players weren't born with Godslayer, they had to work for it and die - repeatedly - in order to train up to that.
Again, a good guild will help here.

There are a lot of people who prefer ESO as a TES game - solo. But this is an MMO at heart, and you want to see that as a benefit, not a problem. Other people are not an annoyance, they are a way to expand your horizons and open up more of the world for you.
I know - I started ESO the same way. I didn't want to play with other people at all. But then I saw some of the things I could get from working with others (the Beast personality), and I realized that if I wanted them, I would have to find a way to think about this differently. And then I joined a guild (full of lore nerds!) and found some people to train me. And now I love ESO more than I did because there's more of the game open to me. And I'll even say that I'm able to solo so much more now because I know more about the game - I'm one of the people who has no issue soloing the mobs in the Market because I learned how to deal with my build from my guildmates.

BardokRedSnow · May 3

To the point about rez, in the Night Market specifically, there are times where its better for you to spawn and run back rather than sit there dead like a fish waiting for a rez. If Im running a group, Im tanking, full time pve tank now as the quality of players in the NM is getting worse as the days go on so its necessary. If Im full time tanking all these adds and the boss, I can't necessarily reliably rez someone unless my ult is up. Especially for instance in the gut of that worm.

Y'all gonna have to rez yourselves sometimes and come back, its faster and easier for everyone. Especially since most of the time these groups are getting carried by a handful of people. And another note, in the middle of NM runs is really not the time to teach people if its a pug especially. So, if you want to learn, I'd suggest joining a guild, not relying on total strangers to stop what they're doing and assist you.

About the nicest thing I'll do for pug groups is not run through the sand barriers with the fan and expect them to make it to the boss on their own lol. Learned fast thats a bad idea.

BardokRedSnow · May 3

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Best thing to do is join a guild.

Ah see, there you go. This falls under also putting forth a bit of effort on your part which imo is the real divide here

Paramedicus · May 3

Power creep is so big that you won't really learn how to play until the vet dlc content - so unfortunately, it'll be a shock therapy for you (dont feel bad if you struggle)

You can also try playing veteran solo arenas - you're alone there, so they force you to pay attention to the mechs.

+ find a build that's relatively easy to use, even at the expense of DPS (it's better to deal 100k DPS on a dummy than 160k on paper).

coop500 · May 3

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Best thing to do is join a guild.

Ah see, there you go. This falls under also putting forth a bit of effort on your part which imo is the real divide here

As long as we keep getting responses like this, the wedge will remain between players.

Renato90085 · May 3

PvE endgame is my interests,i just like hard thing and perfect team work
there tip you don't need have all ,but they all can help a lot
1. remember mech(experience)
as a endgamer,i know what happen or boss next do in most time,like...i run many time vlc pug(it like 200+ run at 6 month?), so i know where place can pull mobs easy,or how solo tank mirror boss,because the pve can predicted in advance,if you see boss stop attack tank,it alway mean they cast the mech,if you hear boss tell a specific line,it mean mech happening too,so if you really like content,not just farm gear...you will learn something from there run
2.Parse dummy
i know most player don't like parse dummy,and we don't be the parse monkey

,but parse can help you skilled your build loop,so it mean if today something wrong(like tank down/you are doing mech),your dps will not big lost,and you can test what skill/cp/5 item pices better at real content
like...180k parse build better other build at trial,because buffs/debuffs from sup roles,but if today you are solo/4 man dungeon,have some build or race can do more better(khajiit/pen set/order)
3.Logs
the log not only show your amazing parse dps,it can know how you die,buff/debuff working time/any time where are you and what are you doing ,but you need know how read it first.
the endgamer can did amazing dps main because sup healer did great team work
4.vma no dead
when i am a new player(it 2018)
my nb teacher give me a map set and crafter gear,tell me if i want join vet trial,i need a vma no dead+speed run(it mean can't run full tank build and spend 2 hour do no dead),he tell me there can test your skill and build can survive at no other player help,now vma is very easy,but no dead and speed run for no shield beam build still is a"should i dodge this boss heavy attack ?"
last..don't fear dead
just try to understand how you dead or mech why fail,and try how to survive next time
if you really dead,you have repair kit (30-300gold each)

Bguk · May 3

coop500 wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Best thing to do is join a guild.

Ah see, there you go. This falls under also putting forth a bit of effort on your part which imo is the real divide here

As long as we keep getting responses like this, the wedge will remain between players.

Let's be honest, there are some players who only want to play the game solo. No other players, no companions, no one else around save for themselves. They absolutely refuse to not play the game solo. That's all good, except when it's a hill they're willing to die on. They want the game changed for their own needs and desires, refusing to accept that to play parts of a game, an MMO, they may need to group sometimes.

I'm all for players offering suggestions to help others. Check the myriad of answers when players suggest how a solo player can complete the content. And the answer is always the same, I can't complete it solo, and not willing to change at all for some content. That's a problem.

coop500 · May 3

Bguk wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Best thing to do is join a guild.

Ah see, there you go. This falls under also putting forth a bit of effort on your part which imo is the real divide here

As long as we keep getting responses like this, the wedge will remain between players.

Let's be honest, there are some players who only want to play the game solo. No other players, no companions, no one else around save for themselves. They absolutely refuse to not play the game solo. That's all good, except when it's a hill they're willing to die on. They want the game changed for their own needs and desires, refusing to accept that to play parts of a game, an MMO, they may need to group sometimes.

I'm all for players offering suggestions to help others. Check the myriad of answers when players suggest how a solo player can complete the content. And the answer is always the same, I can't complete it solo, and not willing to change at all for some content. That's a problem.

Missing the entire point. My point is, *** comments like that being thrown into a thread without reason is only adding to the pile of why people don't want to group, as well as having seen some of that toxicity ingame myself.

Soarora · May 3

My journey:

I started as an elder scrolls player. I was hybrid before hybridization. I was scared of gryphons in overland. But the person who got me into the game loved fang lair for the worm cult aesthetic… and I fell in love with dungeons. I ran normal and vet fang lair using the dungeon finder so many times. And I got kicked plenty. I got kicked from fang lair, I got kicked from DoM, I remember struggling having to figure out mechanics in Moonhunter Keep, I remember being sad because I failed at March of Sacrifices. From this, I say make sure you stack all your attributes in magicka OR stamina, don’t wear heavy armor as a dps, and don’t waste slots as a dps on defensive abilities beyond maybe echoing vigor. I also implore you to be resilient, don’t give up because you fail. Keep trying and you’ll fail less and less… and therein is your improvement. Resilience is the core of how I got here.

I gave up on dpsing because my build was so bad… and I became a healer. If one role isn’t working out for you, try another role. You’ll learn things that benefit you no matter what role you’re on. As a tank, you’ll learn the importance of a healer bringing the undaunted orb. As a healer, you’ll learn the importance of dps standing in front of you, etc.. I got to the point where I craved something more than just veteran pugging. I wanted Worm Wizard. I knew I was ready. But pugs could not do it, there was someone at the time spamming pugs trying to get it but it just wasn’t working out. I sought a guild. I almost didn’t find a dungeon guild, I almost made my own, but I found one. And in this guild, my journey continues.

I joined with approximately no achievements in a time where you needed to get a few challengers or a trifecta in 3 months or you’d get kicked from the guild. People didn’t really want to run with me, much less with a baby healer when dungeons can be 3-dpsed. But I was resilient. I kept trying to get groups, I kept xing to join groups, I almost didn’t make the window. But I did. I got my clears, I got to stay in the guild. And here I made friends. There are two core players who really made this guild feel like home to me. One brought me to my first trial and carried me in MoS Hard Mode. Watching him solo hunt phase on a sorc tank likely influenced me becoming a sorc tank main today. As for how I’m a tank at all, the other person I met became a mentor to me. He taught me all kinds of skills like line of sight using walls in Skyreach and jumping whilst chaining to get over the hitbox of the enemy in front of me. He taught me how to build a tank and I progressed from normal dungeons to veteran nondlc to veteran dlc to hard mode dlcs… I have always had a progression mindset, always setting the next goal to achieve. I remember fondly on doing Moonhunter Keep with my mentor and his friends. I scoffed at the idea of a trifecta but thanks to his coaching over voice chat, we did it. I tanked MHK trifecta when I didn’t think I would be able to do it. This person is no longer my mentor, but we remain great friends and run dungeons together all the time still after like 5 years. This is what we mean by join a guild and make friends. It makes a world of difference.

I wanted more. But I was scared of wasting peoples time when I wasn’t ready for a trifecta. So I created a 4-man core group with a friend, someone they knew from another guild, and someone I had run a dungeon with before. We were all around the same skill level. We ran ideally twice a week but really it was once a week. We’ve changed members a lot but that core of mine is still running. Note on timeline, I joined the guild in 2021. The core started late 2022. I joined the game in early 2019.

I continued pugging in the vet queue, running with friends, running with guild mates, running with my core. ESO really is a game of networking— just like real life. It wasn’t until I had a few dungeon trifectas as tank before I tanked even a normal trial because I was scared. That was overkill.

As a side note, I was progressing in trials whilst this is all happening as well. I joined a mid game guild, did normal trials, went into vet trials. Then that guild split, followed some members into a smaller guild, did more vet trials. That guild split, followed some members into another small guild, then I was doing hm and trifecta trials. I left that group, though I talk to some of them on occasion. Don’t feel compelled to stay with people as if you don’t have anyone else if you come across a toxic group, it’ll turn you toxic too (they weren’t toxic, I was toxic to myself, but I do see it happen that people stay in toxic groups). Keep in contact with some people and join more guilds. It gets to a point where you realize almost everyone knows each other either directly or by a few degrees of separation, so any networking helps.

For returning to DPS, I gave up after trying to use a Xynode build and failing terribly at even doing it right. I started making my own build— a frost warden (before it was cool). And I learned a lot about the WHYs behind decisions. Why bloodthirsty jewelry, why wall of elements, etc etc. These whys are very important for making your own build and understanding your rotation. I asked for help from guilds and friends on understanding these whys and what I could do to improve my build, but at the core of it, I built this myself and I watched as my dps climbed over the years to 80k, to 90k, to 100k. I was so happy at every milestone. Now with shattered paths, I should hit ~120k.

Anyways… back to the story to wrap this behemoth up. I kept on with my core, progressing through the dungeons from easiest to hardest until we caught up with new releases. As I achieved trifectas, I would feel comfortable helping other people in the guild with their trifectas and their hard modes for those dungeons. This now has me at the point that I’m willing and able to jump in for any dungeon trifecta my guildies need (other than bal sunnar because I did that trifecta and then forgot how to do it effectively). The guild needed more staff and approached this nobody to join. After all the guild had done for me, I wanted the best for it. So I accepted… and now I’m the GM of the very guild that was the backbone of my ESO career as a dungeon main.

I still crave more, I want to hone my skills and reach the next level of endgame, which after trifectas, means becoming sweaty despite my inner roleplayer. You have to be prepared to make sacrifices to your roleplay fantasy if you want to improve. Make new characters if you have to. I desire to be helpful to people walking the same path as I did because I see myself in them. And support this guild as it supported me.

Bguk · May 3

coop500 wrote: »

Bguk wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Best thing to do is join a guild.

Ah see, there you go. This falls under also putting forth a bit of effort on your part which imo is the real divide here

As long as we keep getting responses like this, the wedge will remain between players.

Let's be honest, there are some players who only want to play the game solo. No other players, no companions, no one else around save for themselves. They absolutely refuse to not play the game solo. That's all good, except when it's a hill they're willing to die on. They want the game changed for their own needs and desires, refusing to accept that to play parts of a game, an MMO, they may need to group sometimes.

I'm all for players offering suggestions to help others. Check the myriad of answers when players suggest how a solo player can complete the content. And the answer is always the same, I can't complete it solo, and not willing to change at all for some content. That's a problem.

Missing the entire point. My point is, *** comments like that being thrown into a thread without reason is only adding to the pile of why people don't want to group, as well as having seen some of that toxicity ingame myself.

Now that you fleshed it out, I get it. Thanks for clarifying.

ceruulean · May 3

Look up a YouTube video on how to light attack weave, then look up a vMA solo build and practice on a dummy. Then go run Maelstrom Arena or Vateshran hollows. Download Combat Metric addon if you're on PC. If you do all these things, you are well on your way to becoming a competent DPS.

CMX gives you cold hard facts which you need to be aware of. If you don't know where you are lacking, how can you improve?
Dummy humping is the drilling and practice. Like in any sport you have to practice the basic manuevers no matter if you're newbie or pro.
Solo arena give you an environment to test your skill without other people's judgement.

robertlabrie · May 3

I can do vMA with my 1 bar heavy attack sorc - I can't make a dent in the night market. This is supposed to be the new content and I'm not able to play it. Y'all enjoy, maybe Season 1 will have something for the rest of us.

BardokRedSnow · May 3

coop500 wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Best thing to do is join a guild.

Ah see, there you go. This falls under also putting forth a bit of effort on your part which imo is the real divide here

As long as we keep getting responses like this, the wedge will remain between players.

Not a concern of mine, the ones that need the divide to close are the ones that can’t complete the content. There’s plenty of people that are already willing to meet others halfway and at least join a guild first before asking for help.

That’s barest of minimums for an mmo

SkaiFaith · May 3

Learn how to move and manage resources. Maelstrom Arena is helpful to teach you this. I used to die because I ran around and finish stamina or I stood without moving for too long. Maelstrom helps you set the right mindset about that.

As for combat, work your way solo through the hardest WBs and WEs, especially wandering WBs will teach you how to manage space and self healing/blocking.

I'm giving these specific advices because I find they are rarely pointed out but make a huge difference in survivability.

People who find hard to survive a trash pack in Night Market could have another problem added to this: being a pure DD. A solo build helps a lot in NM (resistances + healing). BTW, don't expect to be able to solo NM bosses - that's for crazy skilled players, if even possible, like what, 0.01%?

spartaxoxo · May 3

One big thing that helped me was to learn to solo normal dungeons. This forced me to only rely on myself and anyone failures were my own. It also made knowing when to block, dodge, when to stand still and when to move come more naturally.

ETA

The Night Market will also be good for this. If you can't handle a trash pack then you know you need to work on your build, rotation, and general skills.

robertlabrie · May 3

I can solo all normal dungeons (except ones that have a weird mechanic requiring a second player). I've soloed some of the beginner dungeons in vet as well. I can't make a dent in night market. I can solo the mobs in nHoF as well (I die on the bosses to be sure). I can't make a dent in Night Market. These are suggestions which were made above.

It's because the night market trash just hits a lot harder. In all the other content the mobs and bosses are damage sponges, and the bosses occasionally have a one-hit. In Night Market the mobs dangerous foe one hits you while the mob drains your health fast.

spartaxoxo · May 3

robertlabrie wrote: »

I can solo all normal dungeons (except ones that have a weird mechanic requiring a second player). I've soloed some of the beginner dungeons in vet as well. I can't make a dent in night market. I can solo the mobs in nHoF as well (I die on the bosses to be sure). I can't make a dent in Night Market. These are suggestions which were made above.

It's because the night market trash just hits a lot harder. In all the other content the mobs and bosses are damage sponges, and the bosses occasionally have a one-hit. In Night Market the mobs dangerous foe one hits you while the mob drains your health fast.

The Night Market forces you to pay attention primarily to the most dangerous mobs so you know when to block, roll dodge, etc. Passive healing also helps.

Arunei · May 3

spartaxoxo wrote: »

One big thing that helped me was to learn to solo normal dungeons. This forced me to only rely on myself and anyone failures were my own. It also made knowing when to block, dodge, when to stand still and when to move come more naturally.

The Night Market will also be good for this. If you can't handle a trash pack then you know you need to work on your build and rotation.

This isn't true. There have been a number of people in numerous threads that mention doing Vet Trials or HM Dungeons or being part of raid groups being unable to get passed trash packs.

That said, something to keep in mind is not to overcast things like DoTs, as there are things that do more damage the longer they're running or do the majority of their damage on the final tick. Recasting too soon prevents that damage, and it's also wasting your resources. A good idea is to either turn on the timers in-game or use a combat mod that will add times for you. Going hand in hand with that is also keeping your buffs up and whatever debuffs your build might include.

Also don't just smack a Dummy a few times and then think you're going to conquer whatever gets thrown at you. Dummies are meant for you to practice your rotations to get the hang of them, but they don't actually provide you applicable experience for 'real world' fights. This is because Dummies a) don't fight back or debuff you, and b) if you're using a Trial Dummy, they give you buffs you won't usually have unless you're doing stuff in a big group. Dummies don't force you to move, to block, to dodge, to interrupt your rotation for an emergency heal or something. So after getting comfortable with your rotation, you need to actually put it to use in content to see how it truly performs.

Make sure you're using Food/Drink and Potions. I pretty much just default to Bewitched Sugar Skulls myself but there are other Food/Drinks that are better for certain builds than others. Ensure your Potions are ones that benefit your build and use them as soon as you can in terms of ones like Weapon Damage Pots. Level Alchemy and max the passive that shorten the cooldown of Potion use, as this will make it that your Pots are always ready before the buffs from them time out. Level Provisioning to unlock Gourmand and Connoisseur, which extend the timer of Food and Drinks, respectively. And if you have the CP for it, unlock Liquid Proficiency to have a chance of not consuming a Pot when you use one and Rationer to further increase the timers on your Food/Drink.

And speaking of CP, make sure you have them correctly allocated. Just because something sounds useful doesn't mean it will actually benefit your build, and having things unlocked that don't contribute to it won't do you any favors if you're at the lower end of CP.

SkaiFaith · May 3

Another tip came to mind: it feels counterintuitive but truth is...

If you have 1 huge enemy and many little ones while you are soloing, it's often true that if you eliminate the huge 1 you get your clear/achievement, BUT you have higher probability of success if you are able to avoid the hits from the huge 1 and focus on eliminating the little ones first (unless it is a fight where they insta-respawn ad infinium, maybe).

Cleave damage from little ones will likely always diminish huge 1's health, while the opposite can not be true in cases where little ones stay further away (but still drop bombs on your head). Kite the huge 1 to them, while still focusing them and blocking/dodging the huge 1 (an example of this are Fabled enemies in Infinite Archive when a Marauder spawns).

EDIT: now that I think about it, Night Market can feel like IA Arc4 and upward.

spartaxoxo · May 3

Arunei wrote: »

This isn't true. There have been a number of people in numerous threads that mention doing Vet Trials or HM Dungeons or being part of raid groups being unable to get passed trash packs.

Yes but a highly coordinated raid group allows you to get away with builds that do not work when you're out solo or in less coordinated groups

Arunei · May 3

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

This isn't true. There have been a number of people in numerous threads that mention doing Vet Trials or HM Dungeons or being part of raid groups being unable to get passed trash packs.

Yes but a highly coordinated raid group allows you to get away with builds that do not work when you're out solo or in less coordinated groups

My main point is that these people, who know how to make builds for high-end content, likely know how to make high-end solo builds as well. But people who are skilled at running high-end content are having problems.

spartaxoxo · May 3

Arunei wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

This isn't true. There have been a number of people in numerous threads that mention doing Vet Trials or HM Dungeons or being part of raid groups being unable to get passed trash packs.

Yes but a highly coordinated raid group allows you to get away with builds that do not work when you're out solo or in less coordinated groups

My main point is that these people, who know how to make builds for high-end content, likely know how to make high-end solo builds as well. But people who are skilled at running high-end content are having problems.

That's not an assumption I would make given the various responses. I can only speak for myself but I find group play and solo play to be different enough that I have to change up the way that I play and my builds to take on harder solo challenges.

It took me a while to be able to move past Arc 4, for example. And I had already been some Vet HM dungeon clears and vet trial clears under my belt but I had to change the way I played and built to get past that hurdle. And learning to be able to solo past Arc 4 in IA has very much benefited me in the Night Market.

Not everyone who has done the hardest group challenges have taken on the hardest solo ones or vice versa.

If someone can't handle the trash packs, I would recommend the player adjust their build and the way that they play (assuming that such a user doesn't have additional hurdles that may prevent such things such as age, disability, tech issues, etc). Being able to handle the trash packs is very much doable. I am not an elite player.

AScarlato · May 3

Skills needed for most of Night Market:

1. Following people around.
2. Spamming buttons. As a healer this is very helpful.
3. Moving out of circles.

Arunei · May 3

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

This isn't true. There have been a number of people in numerous threads that mention doing Vet Trials or HM Dungeons or being part of raid groups being unable to get passed trash packs.

Yes but a highly coordinated raid group allows you to get away with builds that do not work when you're out solo or in less coordinated groups

My main point is that these people, who know how to make builds for high-end content, likely know how to make high-end solo builds as well. But people who are skilled at running high-end content are having problems.

That's not an assumption I would make given the various responses. I can only speak for myself but I find group play and solo play to be different enough that I have to change up the way that I play and my builds to take on harder solo challenges.

It took me a while to be able to move past Arc 4, for example. And I had already been some Vet HM dungeon clears and vet trial clears under my belt but I had to change the way I played and built to get past that hurdle. And learning to be able to solo past Arc 4 in IA has very much benefited me in the Night Market.

Not everyone who has done the hardest group challenges have taken on the hardest solo ones or vice versa.

If someone can't handle the trash packs, I would recommend the player adjust their build and the way that they play (assuming that such a user doesn't have additional hurdles that may prevent such things such as age, disability, tech issues, etc). Being able to handle the trash packs is very much doable. I am not an elite player.

Would you be willing to share your build? Because most people seem adverse to doing so when they say the trash packs are soloable while not being a higher-end player.

Soarora · May 3

Arunei wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

This isn't true. There have been a number of people in numerous threads that mention doing Vet Trials or HM Dungeons or being part of raid groups being unable to get passed trash packs.

Yes but a highly coordinated raid group allows you to get away with builds that do not work when you're out solo or in less coordinated groups

My main point is that these people, who know how to make builds for high-end content, likely know how to make high-end solo builds as well. But people who are skilled at running high-end content are having problems.

Agreeing with @spartaxoxo ’s post above this one. Just like how building for dungeons is different than building for trials, building for solo is a different beast. I know approximately as much about solo builds as I do PvP… which is to say I know almost nothing. I die constantly in arc 3 IA when I’m dpsing. Here’s my feedback from when I tried to solo and the cmx reports of 3 of my builds: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8469519#Comment_8469519
First build is my overland character, second is my thematic group PvE character on my defensive build, and the third is my previously meta arcanist. All of them experienced 1-shots from large enemies.

I have no idea how to alter those to make them more defensive beyond what I do when tanking— major resolve, major protection, minor protection — and reaving blows, pale order, and/or structured entropy for healing. I also have no interest in learning because I don’t enjoy soloing dungeons or doing solo arenas. Building for solo is a different skillset, and I like being glass cannon… even in PvP (I run way too low health for PvP).

Edit: Also, I have been mostly tanking in Night Market and dying a lot, despite not dying nearly as much in dungeon and trial hard modes. It’s not my build in that case but rather me not avoiding mechanics correctly (sorrow’s wandering world bosses’ one-shot & skittering skirmishes’ boss enrage + interruptible adds) and trying to solo tank too many things at once (thus distracting from the mechanics).

spartaxoxo · May 3

Arunei wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

This isn't true. There have been a number of people in numerous threads that mention doing Vet Trials or HM Dungeons or being part of raid groups being unable to get passed trash packs.

Yes but a highly coordinated raid group allows you to get away with builds that do not work when you're out solo or in less coordinated groups

My main point is that these people, who know how to make builds for high-end content, likely know how to make high-end solo builds as well. But people who are skilled at running high-end content are having problems.

That's not an assumption I would make given the various responses. I can only speak for myself but I find group play and solo play to be different enough that I have to change up the way that I play and my builds to take on harder solo challenges.

It took me a while to be able to move past Arc 4, for example. And I had already been some Vet HM dungeon clears and vet trial clears under my belt but I had to change the way I played and built to get past that hurdle. And learning to be able to solo past Arc 4 in IA has very much benefited me in the Night Market.

Not everyone who has done the hardest group challenges have taken on the hardest solo ones or vice versa.

If someone can't handle the trash packs, I would recommend the player adjust their build and the way that they play (assuming that such a user doesn't have additional hurdles that may prevent such things such as age, disability, tech issues, etc). Being able to handle the trash packs is very much doable. I am not an elite player.

Would you be willing to share your build? Because most people seem adverse to doing so when they say the trash packs are soloable while not being a higher-end player.

I'm not sharing a specific build because I have multiple characters I took through the Night Market. But, I do have some general principles that I followed and some tips that I shared here. Obviously, people more willing to wear dungeons/trial/arena gear will get better results than the stuff I posted here but this thread was moreso intended to help those who didn't want to do those 3 as I figured people willing to do group content needed less build advice.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/692206/nightmarket-tips-and-tricks-for-solo-casual-players#latest

I also have a video up of just the standard basic Oakensoul Heavy Attack sorc clearing trash packs. Others in here gave some good advice as well.

duagloth · May 3

agelonestar wrote: »

The main problem with random groups - and quite a lot of non-random groups too! - is people not working AS A GROUP.

1. If someone's lying dead, rez them. The number one reason a group wipes is from gradual attrition, where no-one bothers to get other players back in the fight. Don't leave it to someone else - JFDI !
2. If you spot someone in trouble, especially in large fights (e.g. in night Market) then lend a hand. Throw out a heal if you have one. Help them take down the mob or whatever they're struggling with. Working together makes light work of the enemy.
3. Be constructive. There's little point is yelling at the Tank - help the Tank understand what's needed in a positive and constructive way. Helping people play the game in the most effective way makes you more likely to succeed, the group more likely to achieve its aims, and others around you will be grateful.
4. If you're going to assume the Crown, then LEAD. Tell people what you want, where you're going, and involve them in the objectives. It's called communication!

Hope that helps

Dont wait too be rezzed if the respawn is close by. Waste of time rezzing during heavy combat. Also,is the new thing just refusing too be rezzed and lay there dead? Earning kills for zero effort?

Soarora · May 3

duagloth wrote: »

agelonestar wrote: »

The main problem with random groups - and quite a lot of non-random groups too! - is people not working AS A GROUP.

1. If someone's lying dead, rez them. The number one reason a group wipes is from gradual attrition, where no-one bothers to get other players back in the fight. Don't leave it to someone else - JFDI !
2. If you spot someone in trouble, especially in large fights (e.g. in night Market) then lend a hand. Throw out a heal if you have one. Help them take down the mob or whatever they're struggling with. Working together makes light work of the enemy.
3. Be constructive. There's little point is yelling at the Tank - help the Tank understand what's needed in a positive and constructive way. Helping people play the game in the most effective way makes you more likely to succeed, the group more likely to achieve its aims, and others around you will be grateful.
4. If you're going to assume the Crown, then LEAD. Tell people what you want, where you're going, and involve them in the objectives. It's called communication!

Hope that helps

Dont wait too be rezzed if the respawn is close by. Waste of time rezzing during heavy combat. Also,is the new thing just refusing too be rezzed and lay there dead? Earning kills for zero effort?

That’s only applicable to Night Market and you shouldn’t respawn when the encounter is close to death or else you won’t get credit. But early on, yes, respawn in Night Market.

But in other content, you should res as soon as you possibly can if you’re a DPS. Priority is the templar resses, if no templar, the DPS resses, if DPS are dead then the healer resses. Templars have fast res speeds and healers need to heal the living people instead of trying to res (people have died whilst the healer spent time ressing instead).

There are, of course, exceptions to the rule but you learn those as you progress (like when to give up ressing and just kill the boss).